Transformer winding insulation

[sbrehler]

Hello everyone,

Am I correct in that the winding wire in a transformer is coated with a
varnish that acts as an insulator? I've tried to find an answer to this by
researching transformer construction, but haven't been able to get anything
definitive. If this is so, then I would think that winding ones own x-former
would be a tedious undertaking when the slightest knick would possibly
render the thing useless. Perhaps that's why not many people wind their own?
Or, do they? I'm asking because I am considering constructing some VERY
simple x-formers to conduct some VERY simple experiments. No Large Hadron
Collider stuff! :&gt Thanks for any info you can provide...


Scott

 

[Phil Allison]

"sbrehler"

Am I correct in that the winding wire in a transformer is coated with a
varnish that acts as an insulator?

** Yep - it is actually an "enamel" coating, sometimes made from
polyurethane.

I've tried to find an answer to this by researching transformer
construction, but haven't been able to get anything definitive.

** Just look up "enamel winding wire".

If this is so, then I would think that winding ones own x-former would be
a tedious undertaking when the slightest knick would possibly render the
thing useless.

** Nope- enamel coated winding wire is remarkably tough and flexible.

Perhaps that's why not many people wind their own?

** Cheaper and easier to buy a mass produced transformer on most cases.

But folk often wind their own RF coils and small inductors for loudspeaker
x-overs.




...... Phil

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

sbrehler wrote:

Hello everyone,

Am I correct in that the winding wire in a transformer is coated with a
varnish that acts as an insulator? I've tried to find an answer to this by
researching transformer construction, but haven't been able to get anything
definitive. If this is so, then I would think that winding ones own x-former
would be a tedious undertaking when the slightest knick would possibly
render the thing useless. Perhaps that's why not many people wind their own?
Or, do they? I'm asking because I am considering constructing some VERY
simple x-formers to conduct some VERY simple experiments. No Large Hadron
Collider stuff! :&gt Thanks for any info you can provide...

Scott

You want 'Magnet Wire'


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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:27:33 -0500, "sbrehler"
<sbrehler@mindspring.com> wrote:

Hello everyone,

Am I correct in that the winding wire in a transformer is coated with a
varnish that acts as an insulator? I've tried to find an answer to this by
researching transformer construction, but haven't been able to get anything
definitive. If this is so, then I would think that winding ones own x-former
would be a tedious undertaking when the slightest knick would possibly
render the thing useless. Perhaps that's why not many people wind their own?
Or, do they? I'm asking because I am considering constructing some VERY
simple x-formers to conduct some VERY simple experiments. No Large Hadron
Collider stuff! :&gt Thanks for any info you can provide...


Scott

Classic insulations were Formvar and Heavy Formvar, which are very
tough varnishes... so tough they are hard to strip. You can also use
nylon or polyurethane insulated magnet wire, which self-strip with a
very hot soldering iron but are not as tough. All will wind nicely
without much danger of shorting. The Formvar is better for
high-temperature use, and HF for high temp and/or high voltage.

I've hand-wound a lot of small transformers, mostly toroids and pot
cores, with all sorts of wire as noted, and don't recall any winding
shorts. Go for it.

John

 

[sbrehler]

"sbrehler" <sbrehler@mindspring.com> wrote in message
newsZ6dnVvsgdy1lNLUnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@earthlink.com...

Hello everyone,

Am I correct in that the winding wire in a transformer is coated with a
varnish that acts as an insulator? I've tried to find an answer to this by
researching transformer construction, but haven't been able to get
anything definitive. If this is so, then I would think that winding ones
own x-former would be a tedious undertaking when the slightest knick would
possibly render the thing useless. Perhaps that's why not many people wind
their own? Or, do they? I'm asking because I am considering constructing
some VERY simple x-formers to conduct some VERY simple experiments. No
Large Hadron Collider stuff! :&gt Thanks for any info you can provide...


Scott

Ah ha! Magnet wire. I get all kinds of hits on that. Once again, thank you
both for your help.

Scott

 

[Phil Allison]

"sbrehler"

Am I correct in that the winding wire in a transformer is coated with a
varnish that acts as an insulator?

** Yep - it is actually an "enamel" coating, sometimes made from
polyurethane.

I've tried to find an answer to this by researching transformer
construction, but haven't been able to get anything definitive.

** Just look up "enamel winding wire".

If this is so, then I would think that winding ones own x-former would be
a tedious undertaking when the slightest knick would possibly render the
thing useless.

** Nope - enamel coated winding wire is remarkably tough and flexible.

Perhaps that's why not many people wind their own?

** Cheaper and easier to buy a mass produced transformer on most cases.

But folk often wind their own RF coils and small inductors for loudspeaker
x-overs.




...... Phil

 

[Eeyore]

sbrehler wrote:

Hello everyone,

Am I correct in that the winding wire in a transformer is coated with a
varnish that acts as an insulator? I've tried to find an answer to this by
researching transformer construction, but haven't been able to get anything
definitive. If this is so, then I would think that winding ones own x-former
would be a tedious undertaking when the slightest knick would possibly
render the thing useless. Perhaps that's why not many people wind their own?
Or, do they? I'm asking because I am considering constructing some VERY
simple x-formers to conduct some VERY simple experiments. No Large Hadron
Collider stuff! :&gt Thanks for any info you can provide...

Go to powerintegrations.com and download all thie app notes. If you don'y
understand after that, you're in the wrong business.

Also look at TEW (triple insulated wire) Google it.

Graaam

 

[Eeyore]

Phil Allison wrote:

But folk often wind their own RF coils and small inductors for loudspeaker
x-overs.

Thankfully these aren't safety products.

Wht didn't you mention bobbins etc ?

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

sbrehler wrote:

Am I correct in that the winding wire in a transformer is coated with a
varnish that acts as an insulator? I've tried to find an answer to this by
researching transformer construction, but haven't been able to get anything
definitive. If this is so, then I would think that winding ones own x-former
would be a tedious undertaking when the slightest knick would possibly
render the thing useless. Perhaps that's why not many people wind their own?
Or, do they? I'm asking because I am considering constructing some VERY
simple x-formers to conduct some VERY simple experiments. No Large Hadron
Collider stuff! :&gt Thanks for any info you can provide...

Scott

You want 'Magnet Wire'

AND an IEC standard.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

John Larkin wrote:

don't recall any winding shorts. Go for it.

Are you a MANIAC ?

John, my respect for you has dropped below the floor with such idiotic comments.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

sbrehler wrote:

Hello everyone,

Am I correct in that the winding wire in a transformer is coated with a
varnish that acts as an insulator?

Yes, it acts as an insulator but you must ALSO know about MARGINS (these are
seperations between primary and secondary essentially).

Forget that, it blows up, and you are in JAIL and your house is repossesed.

Graham

 

[John Fields]

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:03:41 +0000, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

don't recall any winding shorts. Go for it.

Are you a MANIAC ?

John, my respect for you has dropped below the floor with such idiotic comments.

---
As if your respect mattered.

JF

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

John Fields wrote:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:03:41 +0000, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:



John Larkin wrote:

don't recall any winding shorts. Go for it.

Are you a MANIAC ?

John, my respect for you has dropped below the floor with such idiotic comments.

---
As if your respect mattered.

The fact that the DD doesn't like him raises the respect from anyone
with a brain.


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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Eeyore wrote:

sbrehler wrote:

Hello everyone,

Am I correct in that the winding wire in a transformer is coated with a
varnish that acts as an insulator?

Yes, it acts as an insulator but you must ALSO know about MARGINS (these are
seperations between primary and secondary essentially).

Forget that, it blows up, and you are in JAIL and your house is repossesed.

Must be hell to live in a communist nanny state, like yours.


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http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

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your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:33:24 -0600, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:03:41 +0000, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:



John Larkin wrote:

don't recall any winding shorts. Go for it.

Are you a MANIAC ?

John, my respect for you has dropped below the floor with such idiotic comments.

---
As if your respect mattered.

He's an audio amateur disco sound guy. No wonder his windings short.
Or his shorts are all wound up. Whatever.

John

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:33:24 -0600, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:03:41 +0000, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:



John Larkin wrote:

don't recall any winding shorts. Go for it.

Are you a MANIAC ?

John, my respect for you has dropped below the floor with such idiotic comments.

---
As if your respect mattered.

He's an audio amateur disco sound guy. No wonder his windings short.
Or his shorts are all wound up. Whatever.

Austin Powers with a $6 BSR plastic turntable.


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listed, or I will not see your messages.

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your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Eeysore = Graham Steveson's Brain Tumor"

Phil Allison wrote:

But folk often wind their own RF coils and small inductors for
loudspeaker
x-overs.

Thankfully these aren't safety products.

** Thankfully they are not nuclear weapons either......

you fucking nut case.

Wht didn't you mention bobbins etc ?

** Cos that would be totally irrelevant to the OP's question.

Like your insane reply is.




...... Phil

 

[ehsjr]

sbrehler wrote:

Hello everyone,

Am I correct in that the winding wire in a transformer is coated with a
varnish that acts as an insulator? I've tried to find an answer to this by
researching transformer construction, but haven't been able to get anything
definitive. If this is so, then I would think that winding ones own x-former
would be a tedious undertaking when the slightest knick would possibly
render the thing useless. Perhaps that's why not many people wind their own?
Or, do they? I'm asking because I am considering constructing some VERY
simple x-formers to conduct some VERY simple experiments. No Large Hadron
Collider stuff! :&gt Thanks for any info you can provide...


Scott

For experiments with low voltage, low current stuff, you can
sometimes scrounge the wire from old transformers or from
old TV yoke coils.

Ed

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2008-12-22, sbrehler <sbrehler@mindspring.com> wrote:

Hello everyone,

Am I correct in that the winding wire in a transformer is coated with a
varnish that acts as an insulator? I've tried to find an answer to this by
researching transformer construction, but haven't been able to get anything
definitive. If this is so, then I would think that winding ones own x-former
would be a tedious undertaking when the slightest knick would possibly
render the thing useless. Perhaps that's why not many people wind their own?
Or, do they? I'm asking because I am considering constructing some VERY
simple x-formers to conduct some VERY simple experiments. No Large Hadron
Collider stuff! :&gt Thanks for any info you can provide...

yeah it's a varnish-like coating, and it's fairly tough, also you need
to have the stuff scraped off two adjacent windings before you get a
short-circuit.

As long as the form you're winding it on has no sharp edges I'd be more
worried about destroying the transformer
by overheating it (due to saturation, driver lock up, other circuit
fault) than about damaging the insulation during winding,

 

[default]

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:27:33 -0500, "sbrehler"
<sbrehler@mindspring.com> wrote:

Hello everyone,

Am I correct in that the winding wire in a transformer is coated with a
varnish that acts as an insulator? I've tried to find an answer to this by
researching transformer construction, but haven't been able to get anything
definitive. If this is so, then I would think that winding ones own x-former
would be a tedious undertaking when the slightest knick would possibly
render the thing useless. Perhaps that's why not many people wind their own?
Or, do they? I'm asking because I am considering constructing some VERY
simple x-formers to conduct some VERY simple experiments. No Large Hadron
Collider stuff! :&gt Thanks for any info you can provide...


Scott

People do wind their own. If you wind a lot of them you build a

winding lathe that spins the bobbins for you and a turns counter that
keeps track - and it is a whole lot less tedious.

I suspect people are just too lazy to wind their own - and laminations
are a specialty item so you end up salvaging core material from other
transformers.

Enamel magnet wire is very resistant to nicks as a rule. Sometimes a
kink, pulled tight, will cause it to flake off.

I worked for a PS manufacturer in the 70's. It was SOP on some tight
transformers to insulate layers with mylar tape, with an over wrap of
heavy paper tape. To get them to fit the laminations sometimes we
would hit them with a hammer to get the coils to fit (we protected the
surface with a block of nylon then just gave it a whack to make the
layers lay down enough to squeeze it in)

Its often easier to wind a big transformer than a small one for line
frequencies - big easy to see wire that doesn't break easily, and
fewer turns per volt because the iron is large.

I wound an induction coil with thirteen miles of #32 gauge wire in the
secondary - four bobbins with paper between layers. Took me a week
but I did paint varnish on each layer before laying down another
layer. ~40 layers per bobbin. Each layer took about 15 minutes with
a motorized winder.

Winding transformers is fun in my opinion.

When the rotor on my motorcycle alternator shorted I wound a new one
and saved ~$300
--