Toyota wires are thinner...

[micky]

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I\'ve had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I\'m not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.


It matters only when I\'m trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don\'t try to make,
because, where it\'s difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I\'ll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

 

[ohg...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 1:10:43 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I\'ve had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I\'m not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.


It matters only when I\'m trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don\'t try to make,
because, where it\'s difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I\'ll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

I don\'t think it matters as long as the wiring lasts the life of the car. I\'ve seen crappy wiring in Japanese consumer electronics, but again, as long as it lasts the product\'s lifetime and can carry the required current at the rated voltage, what does it matter?

 

[ohg...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 1:10:43 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I\'ve had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I\'m not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.


It matters only when I\'m trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don\'t try to make,
because, where it\'s difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I\'ll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

I don\'t think it matters as long as the wiring lasts the life of the car. I\'ve seen crappy wiring in Japanese consumer electronics, but again, as long as it lasts the product\'s lifetime and can carry the required current at the rated voltage, what does it matter?

 

[Peter W.]

I expect that the wires are thinner because they are carrying far less current than they once did. Why?
a) LED lamps instead of incandescent lamps.
b) Digital gauges (if any at all) instead of analog gauges.
c) Chip driven diagnostics.

I also expect that Toyota would not move to thinner-gauge wire purely as a matter of first-cost economics if one considers the cost of even a single recall vs. the heavier gauge wire. I also doubt if it is a \'green\' decision any more so than any other realized efficiency due to refinements in technology and/or execution.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Peter W.]

I expect that the wires are thinner because they are carrying far less current than they once did. Why?
a) LED lamps instead of incandescent lamps.
b) Digital gauges (if any at all) instead of analog gauges.
c) Chip driven diagnostics.

I also expect that Toyota would not move to thinner-gauge wire purely as a matter of first-cost economics if one considers the cost of even a single recall vs. the heavier gauge wire. I also doubt if it is a \'green\' decision any more so than any other realized efficiency due to refinements in technology and/or execution.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[server]

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I\'ve had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I\'m not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.

3) Copper is expensive.

4) Weight. Every pound counts towards EPA fuel ratings. Seriously.
IIRC, domestic cars use mostly 20Ga wire. I don\'t remember but
Japanese may use 22Ga. There is a *lot* of wire in a car.

It matters only when I\'m trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don\'t try to make,
because, where it\'s difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I\'ll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

 

[server]

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky posted for all of us to digest...

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I\'ve had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I\'m not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.


It matters only when I\'m trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don\'t try to make,
because, where it\'s difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I\'ll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

Did you ever consider that much of what a car operates on is computer
controlled? The wire sizes are set for load by the SAE which any manufacturer
would seemingly not violate.

If you have trouble cutting the wire while stripping insulation you are using a
notch size too small, cheap stripper or a knife. The trick is to start with a
bigger wire size and if that doesn\'t work go one size smaller. Let the stripper
do the work. Wire gauge is opposite of size i.e. 22 gauge is smaller than 18
gauge.

If you have the green crusties then you have water ingress.

Put the wire back in the loom when done making sure it is as close to the
location as it was. Some situations may require the loom/wire be relocated due
to manufacturers defect /-(

--
Tekkie

 

[server]

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I\'ve had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I\'m not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.

3) Copper is expensive.

4) Weight. Every pound counts towards EPA fuel ratings. Seriously.
IIRC, domestic cars use mostly 20Ga wire. I don\'t remember but
Japanese may use 22Ga. There is a *lot* of wire in a car.

It matters only when I\'m trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don\'t try to make,
because, where it\'s difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I\'ll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

 

[tschw...@aol.com]

The wires in your Toyota may not be thinner. Every manufacturer uses the same formulas and guidelines for determining wire gauge based on load. Some manufacturers will have a minimum size they will use, based mostly on the types of connectors that they want to use/have qualified for their vehicles.

Your Toyota wiring may have thinner insulation. Recent advances in insulation materials have allowed for smaller diameter / thickness insulation that saves weight and bulk, and therefore fuel and possibly cost, although some of the newer insulation types are significantly more expensive than the older materials.

So in fact, it\'s possivble that your wire harness is of better quality and more expensive than some other makes....

There is so much cross pollination between manufacturers now that the differences between foreign & domestic, or even just maker1 to maker2.... are essentially meaningless.

 

[tschw...@aol.com]

The wires in your Toyota may not be thinner. Every manufacturer uses the same formulas and guidelines for determining wire gauge based on load. Some manufacturers will have a minimum size they will use, based mostly on the types of connectors that they want to use/have qualified for their vehicles.

Your Toyota wiring may have thinner insulation. Recent advances in insulation materials have allowed for smaller diameter / thickness insulation that saves weight and bulk, and therefore fuel and possibly cost, although some of the newer insulation types are significantly more expensive than the older materials.

So in fact, it\'s possivble that your wire harness is of better quality and more expensive than some other makes....

There is so much cross pollination between manufacturers now that the differences between foreign & domestic, or even just maker1 to maker2.... are essentially meaningless.

 

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 05 May 2021 15:16:19 -0400, krw@notreal.com
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I\'ve had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I\'m not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.

3) Copper is expensive.

4) Weight. Every pound counts towards EPA fuel ratings. Seriously.
IIRC, domestic cars use mostly 20Ga wire. I don\'t remember but
Japanese may use 22Ga. There is a *lot* of wire in a car.

So you\'re agreeing that the Japanese use thinnner wire than the
Americans do?

Do you think it had to do with post-war poverty in Japan?

Have the Americans made their wires thinner than in the 1990\'s?

It matters only when I\'m trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don\'t try to make,
because, where it\'s difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I\'ll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

 

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 05 May 2021 15:16:19 -0400, krw@notreal.com
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I\'ve had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I\'m not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.

3) Copper is expensive.

4) Weight. Every pound counts towards EPA fuel ratings. Seriously.
IIRC, domestic cars use mostly 20Ga wire. I don\'t remember but
Japanese may use 22Ga. There is a *lot* of wire in a car.

So you\'re agreeing that the Japanese use thinnner wire than the
Americans do?

Do you think it had to do with post-war poverty in Japan?

Have the Americans made their wires thinner than in the 1990\'s?

It matters only when I\'m trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don\'t try to make,
because, where it\'s difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I\'ll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

 

[Peter W.]

So you\'re agreeing that the Japanese use thinnner wire than the
Americans do?

Do you think it had to do with post-war poverty in Japan?

Are you capable of reading for content? The war (WWII) is 75+ years done.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Peter W.]

So you\'re agreeing that the Japanese use thinnner wire than the
Americans do?

Do you think it had to do with post-war poverty in Japan?

Are you capable of reading for content? The war (WWII) is 75+ years done.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Rod Speed]

\"micky\" <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote in message
news:5jd69g9f9akaci99nvvd8lk2pcv3lmudtc@4ax.com...

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 05 May 2021 15:16:19 -0400, krw@notreal.com
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I\'ve had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I\'m not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.

3) Copper is expensive.

4) Weight. Every pound counts towards EPA fuel ratings. Seriously.
IIRC, domestic cars use mostly 20Ga wire. I don\'t remember but
Japanese may use 22Ga. There is a *lot* of wire in a car.

So you\'re agreeing that the Japanese use thinnner wire than the
Americans do?

Do you think it had to do with post-war poverty in Japan?

Nope, it took them quite a while before they did cars after
the war and they included stuff that was optional on the
local cars to get people to buy unknown cars.

> Have the Americans made their wires thinner than in the 1990\'s?

Dunno. I\'ve added another newsgroup, Jim in there prefers
american cars, not sure if its recent ones tho.

It matters only when I\'m trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don\'t try to make,
because, where it\'s difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I\'ll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

 

[williamwright]

On 06/05/2021 02:25, Rod Speed wrote:

It matters only when I\'m trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation.   But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don\'t try to make,
because, where it\'s difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I\'ll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

The wires on 24V vehicles are thinner than them on 12V vehicles. Yes I
do know why.

\"Dad, why are the wires made of lots of little thin wires?\"
\"There\'s one for each volt son.\"
\"Dad, I\'ve counted the thin wires in this thick one and there\'s 84. So
is that 84 volts?\"
\"It\'s your bedtime.\"

Bill

 

[williamwright]

On 06/05/2021 02:25, Rod Speed wrote:

It matters only when I\'m trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation.   But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don\'t try to make,
because, where it\'s difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I\'ll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

The wires on 24V vehicles are thinner than them on 12V vehicles. Yes I
do know why.

\"Dad, why are the wires made of lots of little thin wires?\"
\"There\'s one for each volt son.\"
\"Dad, I\'ve counted the thin wires in this thick one and there\'s 84. So
is that 84 volts?\"
\"It\'s your bedtime.\"

Bill

 

[rbowman]

On 05/05/2021 02:44 PM, Tekkie� wrote:

If you have trouble cutting the wire while stripping insulation you are using a
notch size too small, cheap stripper or a knife. The trick is to start with a
bigger wire size and if that doesn\'t work go one size smaller. Let the stripper
do the work. Wire gauge is opposite of size i.e. 22 gauge is smaller than 18
gauge.

I bought a trailer light harness for the Toyota. When I looked at the
gauge of the taillight wiring and the tight location I decided I might
do it some other day if I really wanted to hook up the trailer.

That model is rated for towing in the US so a Y connector wasn\'t
available. Oddly in the Canadian manual it is rated for 500 lb max.

 

[rbowman]

On 05/05/2021 02:44 PM, Tekkie� wrote:

If you have trouble cutting the wire while stripping insulation you are using a
notch size too small, cheap stripper or a knife. The trick is to start with a
bigger wire size and if that doesn\'t work go one size smaller. Let the stripper
do the work. Wire gauge is opposite of size i.e. 22 gauge is smaller than 18
gauge.

I bought a trailer light harness for the Toyota. When I looked at the
gauge of the taillight wiring and the tight location I decided I might
do it some other day if I really wanted to hook up the trailer.

That model is rated for towing in the US so a Y connector wasn\'t
available. Oddly in the Canadian manual it is rated for 500 lb max.

 

[Andy Burns]

micky wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were.

I think it\'s probably a modern vs older, rather than japanese vs
american thing?

Car manufacturers seem to use \"thin wall\" cables now, using a tougher
grade of PVC so that a greater %age of the overall volume of the wire is
copper rather than plastic. Probably reduced copper too due to lower
current requirements, as others have mentioned.