Total Number of Deaths From Boiler Explosions v. High Energy

Steam power progressed over several centuries but the total number of
deaths from boiler explosions must number in the tens of thousands and
probably acts as a deterrent to anyone who wants to try anything with
high energy density batteries.


Bret Cahill

 

In sci.physics BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote:

Steam power progressed over several centuries but the total number of
deaths from boiler explosions must number in the tens of thousands and
probably acts as a deterrent to anyone who wants to try anything with
high energy density batteries.


Bret Cahill

That and these days you get sued into oblivion if you burn someone's
pinky with your wonder machine, let alone kill them.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

 

In sci.physics mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:

On Oct 21, 4:35 pm, j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
In sci.physics BretCah...@peoplepc.com wrote:
Steam power progressed over several centuries but the total number of
deaths from boiler explosions must number in the tens of thousands and
probably acts as a deterrent to anyone who wants to try anything with
high energy density batteries.

Bret Cahill

That and these days you get sued into oblivion if you burn someone's
pinky with your wonder machine, let alone kill them.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.


Setup headquarters in <include favorite_third_world_country here> to
get around that problem...

M

All the wogs have lawyers and watchdog groups these days.

You'd have to do it in some shithole so awful it would take a small
army just to keep your staff safe from the locals, like Somalia.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

 

On Oct 21, 4:35 pm, j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:

In sci.physics BretCah...@peoplepc.com wrote:
Steam power progressed over several centuries but the total number of
deaths from boiler explosions must number in the tens of thousands and
probably acts as a deterrent to anyone who wants to try anything with
high energy density batteries.

Bret Cahill

That and these days you get sued into oblivion if you burn someone's
pinky with your wonder machine, let alone kill them.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Setup headquarters in <include favorite_third_world_country here> to
get around that problem...

M

 

[John Fields]

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:26:22 -0700 (PDT), BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote:

Steam power progressed over several centuries but the total number of
deaths from boiler explosions must number in the tens of thousands and
probably acts as a deterrent to anyone who wants to try anything with
high energy density batteries.

Bret Cahill

That and these days you get sued into oblivion if you burn someone's
pinky with your wonder machine, let alone kill them.

Leave the trial lawyers to me. I can jerk a legal-political-PR knot
into Ralph Nader's candy ass that just will not quit.

No jurist dares to mess with the Bret.

---
Dockets?

JF

 

In sci.physics BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote:

Steam power progressed over several centuries but the total number of
deaths from boiler explosions must number in the tens of thousands and
probably acts as a deterrent to anyone who wants to try anything with
high energy density batteries.

Bret Cahill

That and these days you get sued into oblivion if you burn someone's
pinky with your wonder machine, let alone kill them.

Leave the trial lawyers to me. I can jerk a legal-political-PR knot
into Ralph Nader's candy ass that just will not quit.

No jurist dares to mess with the Bret.


Bret Cahill

So where were you when McDonald's needed you?


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

 

[hhc314@yahoo.com]

On Oct 21, 7:35 pm, j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:

In sci.physics BretCah...@peoplepc.com wrote:
Steam power progressed over several centuries but the total number of
deaths from boiler explosions must number in the tens of thousands and
probably acts as a deterrent to anyone who wants to try anything with
high energy density batteries.

Bret Cahill

That and these days you get sued into oblivion if you burn someone's
pinky with your wonder machine, let alone kill them.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Hey Jim, OSHA notwitstanding, the bridge requires at least one life
(old legend among bridge and high-steel workers.) Some readers need
to get above the romantic notions of people who in science did their
work in the face of known danger willingly as part of the job (as many
do) vs. some romantics that believe that this is the price that must
be paid for invention. It scares the heck out of laymen that many of
the early researchers in radioactivity and x-rays died as a direct
result of their research. The simple fact is that in those days, very
few reserchers were aware of just how dangerous radiation radiation
explosure could be. That fact was only learned years later.

With regard to steam, the deaths in steam explosions take on romantic
popularity, but are largely untrue. The lyrics of some of their
ballads celebrating death by steam are full of real holes. That
classic, "Wreck of the old 97" is typical of the breed. I personally
like the song, but it is anything but accurate. Some of the lyrics
are:

"He was going down that grade doing 90 miles per hour, when the
whistle broke into a scream"

This part could be true, since a steam locomotive receives positive
feedback, and the faster it goes, the more the draft, and the faster
the fuel burns. Soon the steam pressure increases to the point where
the overpressure valves are blown open, and the whistle takes on a
unique sound.

"It was at that point that he lost his airbrakes"

Fact is, if you loose your airbrakes, the breaks on each car
automatically go into full emergency braking, resulting in a very
unpleasant and rapid stop of the train. All airbrakes respond
automatically of the loss of pressure in the brake control line that
effecitively holds off the application of brakes in every car in the
train. This system of braking was designed in 1867 by George
Westinghouse, and certainly would have been in use on the train pulled
by the old '97. (An 1897 locomotive, which is rather recent as steam
locomotives go.)

"He was found in the wreck with his hand on the throttle, scalded to
death by the steam."

Now just consider this situation. Here we have a train engineer with
no train brakes, with the train running uncontrolled down a steep
grade. Now does anybody believe that at this point he would have his
hand on the throttle? No, most likely at this jucture he would have
both hands on the locomotive break after throwing the Johnson Bar into
full reverse.

For all of the new kids on the block who have never seen a steam
locomotive like an Atlantic, Pacific, or Hunson, here is what the
Johnson Bar does, and no, you cannot purchase one at Home Depot.

http://home.new.rr.com/trumpetb/loco/rodsr.html

A Johnson Bar is essenially a steam locomotive's reverse lever and
gearshift.

Now for a few rather unromantic facts. The cab of a steam locomotive
always contained at least two people, the fireman and the engineer. In
the face of an impending crash, both were instructed to jump from the
cab of the locomotive, regardless of its speed.This is why the cabs of
most steam locomotives had no doors. Jumping was a desperate act, and
at 90 mph would result in near certain death, but remaining in the
locomotive cab would have resulted in exposure to high temperature
steam released in a during wreck, and certain death. but slow and
painful.

Actually, I've seen some old PRR employee operation guide that
prescribe the correct cab evacuation procedure. From memory, it reads
like this:

-- Set airbrakes to full emergency stop
-- Position Johnson Bar to Full Reverse
-- Set throttle midrange
-- Set and lock motor (engine or locomotive) brakes
-- Pad person with as much availble clothing as possible
-- Jump as hard as you can from train, and immediately curl into a
ball
-- Contact dispatcher immediately

No, I'm not making this up. I worked at GRS for 10 years, and over
that interval have read many of the old railroad operational manuals,
and trust me they did not consitute very romantic reading.

That said, I take off my engineers hat of to the railroad people (no I
don't drive trains for a living, although I have driven bot trains and
subways on test runs -- it's fun).

Perhaps it's because in my work I have spent so much time with
railroad people (a wonderful crowd with principals and ethics
exceeding anything I have ever encountered, and I have done my share
of traveling. Most of these guys are big and can be tough if needed,
but with character a mile deep and hearts of gold, and they all drink
like fish. That's one bad thing that I acquired from them. Still, one
evening while the manager of a contractor doing work with them six
guys that I had met on the job and I went out for a drink after work.
Between the 7 of us over 4 hours, we ranup a bar bill over $160
dollars at the Trader's Vic in the Washington Hilton. Having to take a
nature break, I placed 2 $100 bills under my glass to cover the tab,
then went to the men's room for at least 5 minites. When I returned,
the money was untouched, but one of the railroad guys advised me that
here in Washington, DC, there are people less than block away that
would cut your throat for less. We looked each other in the eye, I
winked, the said that I new that, but in my present company... He
simply smiled. He then asked me if it were GRS' money or mine. I asked
him if that mattered and he replied 'No'. He was a black guy, about
6'4" and had earned his way up the ranks in the transit industry,
beginning on a track gang. He was at that time a constructon manager.
His buddy and a member of that same group was called Mahesh, who could
be equally intimidating. I remember that Mahesh always ordered 'beef
when the gang of 7 went to the Ruby Restaurant (which advertised
itself as the the gem in the heart of Chinatown). Now Mahesh was a
very big guy, and his origins were somewhat mysterious. He had dark
skin, so he could pass as Indian, Egyptian, or African. Nobody knew
or particularly cared, since he was a gentle, well informed, and
otherwise good guy. Other member of the gang of 7 included an Indian
expatriot by the unlikely name of Gopen Dash (a mathematician and data
interpretation genius). Marty Lukes (ex employee of the CTA and a very
colorful character with whom I have spend many days on field trips to
inspect far away vendor's capabilities and status). There were
another two members of this gang of 7 whose faces I remember but whose
names I have forgotten.

This was, of course, during the constructon of the WMATA transit
system, now called the Washington Metro. To give credit where credit
is due all of us drunken scum from all parts of the world worked under
the supervision of two guys that pretty much ran all aspects of WMATA
subway construction. These were Art Luhrs (manage of transit
operations) and Ralph Sheldon (manage of control system design for
WMATA?) I never leaned what either of these two guys titles were, but
they paid all of us and that's what matters.

Additional credit for the Washington Metro success goest to Bechtel
and their project engineer (another nice guy whose name I have
forgotten, although he dutifully chaired every high level meeting I
ever attended on the WMATA project, and who deserves much more respect
for his contribution. Other names at Bechtel that spring to mind are
Arlen and Ray Castorino. When not out partying with the group of
7, I spent evenings with ray, a former SR-71 pilot, and I believe a
retired USAF colonel. While I could share many amusing stories about
Ray with the newsgroup, he is capable of doing the same with me, so
lets call that one a draw. Let's just say that Ray is on my list of
the best people I have ever had the good fortune to encounter and call
a friend. Also it's good to have a friend that can take you into Ft.
Myer or Andrews, and have the MPs at the gate suddently snap to
attention, salute, and pass you through. I never quite figured that
one out, except that it must have been some magical sticker that Ray
had on his Buick. I want one, because I really enjoyed having luncheon
in Pattan Hall in Ft. Meyer. Then too, that's a quite reasonable perk
for career as a US military officer. Wall street clueless hacks retire
with much better.

http://www.fmmcmwr.com/myeroclub.htm

Nice place.

Sorry, but thread contents do sometimes drift. This one from steam
power to Ft. Myer's Patton Hall. That may be a new record!

Harry C.

 

Steam power progressed over several centuries but the total number of
deaths from boiler explosions must number in the tens of thousands and
probably acts as a deterrent to anyone who wants to try anything with
high energy density batteries.

Bret Cahill

That and these days you get sued into oblivion if you burn someone's
pinky with your wonder machine, let alone kill them.

Leave the trial lawyers to me. I can jerk a legal-political-PR knot
into Ralph Nader's candy ass that just will not quit.

No jurist dares to mess with the Bret.


Bret Cahill

 

In sci.physics BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote:

Steam power progressed over several centuries but the total number of
deaths from boiler explosions must number in the tens of thousands and
probably acts as a deterrent to anyone who wants to try anything with
high energy density batteries.

Bret Cahill

That and these days you get sued into oblivion if you burn someone's
pinky with your wonder machine, let alone kill them.

Leave the trial lawyers to me. �I can jerk a legal-political-PR knot
into Ralph Nader's candy ass that just will not quit.

No jurist dares to mess with the Bret.

So where were you when McDonald's needed you?

Florida which was crucial. Tampa has some good lawyers but it also
has a lot of shyster lawyers. Trial lawyers aren't always shysters
but the shysters helped highlight the larger tort problem.

<snip political rant>

Bret Cahill

What has any of this to do with hot coffee?

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

 

Steam power progressed over several centuries but the total number of
deaths from boiler explosions must number in the tens of thousands and
probably acts as a deterrent to anyone who wants to try anything with
high energy density batteries.

Bret Cahill

That and these days you get sued into oblivion if you burn someone's
pinky with your wonder machine, let alone kill them.

Leave the trial lawyers to me. �I can jerk a legal-political-PR knot
into Ralph Nader's candy ass that just will not quit.

No jurist dares to mess with the Bret.

So where were you when McDonald's needed you?

Florida which was crucial. Tampa has some good lawyers but it also
has a lot of shyster lawyers. Trial lawyers aren't always shysters
but the shysters helped highlight the larger tort problem.

It took 3 days of labor -- like giving birth -- to comprehend the
situation back Feb. 1992.

Industry bosses might not like the solution but it is easy to explain
to scientists:

Short circuit the process.

As with any engine trial lawyers need to restrict class warfare and
knowledge of basic rights to the courtroom. They don't want anything
bleeding off into to political sphere. A functional political sphere
would be to the tort industry like a piston engine with blown rings
and valves.

That's why you see so much "bipartisan" legislation in Congress that
screws most Americans. Democratic Party trial lawyers and GOP
industry bosses have a symbiotic relationship.

That's also why Democratic Party contributor and Philadelphia lawyer
Jerome Marcus was the ringleader behind the Paula Jones suit to unseat
Bill Clinton. The "vast right wing conspiracy" was nothing more than
Dem Party lawyers with a massive conflict of interest.

The more free speech on economic issues _outside_ the court room the
less tort income _inside_ the tort room and Clinton was using free
speech on economic issues to get elected.

Clinton was messing with the lawyers' economic turf.

John Edwards' poverty center at UNC was established primarily to
obfuscate the fact that trial lawyers need lots of poor for juries and
lots of deep pockets to sue.

Tort income drops dramatically with equality of wealth.

Do some research on the jurors on Edwards' biggest awards.

It is certain most were making less than 1.5 of minimum wage.

Europe has less disparity of wealth so they don't have our trial
lawyer problem.

Ever notice that Europeans can drive around in higher fuel efficiency
cars that are, admittedly, less safe in collisions?

That's the ultimate reason: Equality of wealth.

There ain't no Nader in Europe.

UNC needs to distance itself from Edwards poverty inst. like Stanford
needs to get rid of Hoover.

ASAP


Bret Cahill

 

[Mark Thorson]

BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote:

Steam power progressed over several centuries but the total number of
deaths from boiler explosions must number in the tens of thousands and
probably acts as a deterrent to anyone who wants to try anything with
high energy density batteries.

Boiler explosions were a major cause of death until
the late 1870's when the insurance companies got together
and used their influence to require periodic hydrostatic
testing of boilers. You couldn't get insurance without it,
and it soon became a legal requirement in most places.

Deaths from boiler explosions within a few years dropped
to zero or near-zero.

There is no corresponding test to ensure the safety of
batteries. Several battery chemistries are subject to
thermal runaway, and you can't always predict which
batteries will blow.

 

[Rich Grise]

On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:02:50 -0700, BretCahill wrote:

Ever notice that Europeans can drive around in higher fuel efficiency cars
that are, admittedly, less safe in collisions?

What's wrong with just not colliding?
http://mysite.verizon.net/richgrise/images/Safe-Car.gif

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:55:01 +0000, jimp wrote:

What has any of this to do with hot coffee?

A few years ago, someone sued McDonalds for millions of dollars after
she dumped a cup of hot coffee in her lap.

None of which has to do with electronics, you might note.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Androcles]

"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
newsan.2008.10.22.23.05.53.149853@example.net...

On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:02:50 -0700, BretCahill wrote:

Ever notice that Europeans can drive around in higher fuel efficiency
cars
that are, admittedly, less safe in collisions?

What's wrong with just not colliding?
http://mysite.verizon.net/richgrise/images/Safe-Car.gif

Cheers!
Rich

It is not clear from your diagram which direction is forward.
Is it a new design for a motorcycle?

 

In sci.physics Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:

On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:55:01 +0000, jimp wrote:

What has any of this to do with hot coffee?

A few years ago, someone sued McDonalds for millions of dollars after
she dumped a cup of hot coffee in her lap.

None of which has to do with electronics, you might note.

Thanks,
Rich

Yes, I know.

The question is what does hot coffee in New Mexico have to do with
anything the previous poster wrote?

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

 

[hhc314@yahoo.com]

On Oct 22, 6:06 pm, Rich Grise <r...@example.net> wrote:

On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:02:50 -0700, BretCahill wrote:

Ever notice that Europeans can drive around in higher fuel efficiency cars
that are, admittedly, less safe in collisions?

What's wrong with just not colliding?http://mysite.verizon.net/richgrise/images/Safe-Car.gif

Cheers!
Rich

Good point. I suppose the lesson here is to be very careful about
people who drive Volvos.

I drive a Ford Bronco. It's a big, lumbering hulk, which not even
Volvo drivers will challenge.

....An you know what, I feel safe driving my family around in a Bronco.
Still, hard to find junkyard parts for a Bronco, while salvaged parts
from Volvos are plentiful.

Think I am kidding, the visit you local junkyar (used auto parts
dealer) yourself, but don't hold high hopes in finding parts for
American made cars.

Harry C.

 

[zzbunker@netscape.net]

On Oct 21, 7:19 pm, BretCah...@peoplepc.com wrote:

Steam power progressed over several centuries but the total number of
deaths from boiler explosions must number in the tens of thousands and
probably acts as a deterrent to anyone who wants to try anything with
high energy density batteries.

Well, boiler explosions mostly caused people to switch to natural
gas,
from coil, rather stop them from building boilers, Since the
explosions
were mostly caused by gummed up relief valves, rather boilers,

And high density batteries aren't as much as a problem as high
density lead,
Which is why people switched to Post McDonald's Holograms.

Bret Cahill

 

Steam power progressed over several centuries but the total number of
deaths from boiler explosions must number in the tens of thousands and
probably acts as a deterrent to anyone who wants to try anything with
high energy density batteries.

Boiler explosions were a major cause of death until
the late 1870's when the insurance companies got together
and used their influence to require periodic hydrostatic
testing of boilers. �You couldn't get insurance without it,
and it soon became a legal requirement in most places.

Deaths from boiler explosions within a few years dropped
to zero or near-zero.

Progress happens.

There is no corresponding test to ensure the safety of
batteries. �Several battery chemistries are subject to
thermal runaway, and you can't always predict which
batteries will blow.

Where are our Darwin Award types when we really need them?


Bret Cahill