To Google or not to Google...that is the question

[Baphomet]

So many questions are asked on this newsgroup about how do I do this or find
that. At this point in time, it seems rather extrordinary that people
(especially students) wouldn't axiomatically do a Google Search. Do "they"
not teach the creative use of search engines in universities and technical
schools and if not, why not?

I can understand how the older farts such as myself who were taught on slide
rules and who cut their teeth on vacuum tube technology might not be hip to
this extraordinary new technology, but what excuse do the younger
generations have?

All responses would be appreciated, except those of course who disagree with
me ;-)

 

[Howard Henry Schlunder]

"Baphomet" wrote in message news:vntfeeekh6ck72@corp.supernews.com...

So many questions are asked on this newsgroup about how do I do this or
find
that. At this point in time, it seems rather extrordinary that people
(especially students) wouldn't axiomatically do a Google Search. Do "they"
not teach the creative use of search engines in universities and technical
schools and if not, why not?

They don't teach that, and I'm glad they don't. It so happens (at least in
my experience) that professors happen to be the older people and younger
generations master new technologies of popular interest before they do.
Numerous young people having to sit through lectures on how to effectively
mine the Internet would find it an utter waste of their time.

I can understand how the older farts such as myself who were taught on
slide
rules and who cut their teeth on vacuum tube technology might not be hip
to
this extraordinary new technology, but what excuse do the younger
generations have?

Although I don't actually know the reason, I can speculate that some may
find it easier and more social to ask other people. In a new world where
you can grow up ordering merchandise online and paying for grocceries at a
self service checkout station, interaction in a newsgroup may be a
significant portion of their social engagements in a day. If you don't
understand or believe that statement, just go read Slashdot.org for a while.

What strikes me as amazing is how people in the electronics groups keep
posting messages saying the solution begins at Google's site. People in
other technical groups I've visited don't seem to do this as often (like
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc). Such posts don't actually add to the
technical content of the Internet, and unless the poster somehow managed to
post to Usenet without thinking about a search engine first, such posts
don't add any value whatsoever to a given thread. Since Usenet is more
difficult to post to compared to reading the web it seems likely to me that
a great sum of the use-Google posts fall into the no-value-whatsoever
category.

Personally, if I have time, I try to answer any question I can, even if I
know it has been answered elsewhere or previously. If I don't have the
time, I simply ignore the thread and move on with life.

Howard Henry Schlunder

 

[John Fortier]

"Baphomet" <fandanospam@catskill.net> wrote in message
news:vntfeeekh6ck72@corp.supernews.com...

So many questions are asked on this newsgroup about how do I do this or
find
that. At this point in time, it seems rather extrordinary that people
(especially students) wouldn't axiomatically do a Google Search. Do "they"
not teach the creative use of search engines in universities and technical
schools and if not, why not?

I can understand how the older farts such as myself who were taught on
slide
rules and who cut their teeth on vacuum tube technology might not be hip
to
this extraordinary new technology, but what excuse do the younger
generations have?

All responses would be appreciated, except those of course who disagree
with
me ;-)

It's a question that has occurred to me on more than one occasion as well.
Like Baphomet, I cut my teeth on vacuum tubes and big clunky relays and can
remember the wonder of my first calculator that actually gave logarithms.

An aside; I was teaching at the Royal signals Trade Training Center, in
Catterick Garrison, Yorkshire in the late 70s, when I realised that the
logarithmic tables I required for the lesson had run out. I stepped into
the corridor and hailed a passing recruit. "Run up to the Library for me
and Tell them Sergeant Fortier needs two dozen log tables." I said.
Looking puzzled he replied' "Should I get some friends, Sarge?"

"Why?" I asked.

"Well, Sarge, how heavy are these log tables?"

Next week, my friend Jake sent him for a long weight.

There does seem to be a reluctance on the part of some newbies to
electronics to go to the net as a first choice. I know I use search engines
all the time and it's got to the point where I wouldn't really know what to
do without them..

Perhaps, although this is just a try at an explanation, it's because if you
are new to electronics generally, even if you go to the net for answers, you
probably won't understand 95% of what Goggle finds for you. It's a bit
disconcerting, even with my experience, to try to find, for example, a quick
answer for a high impedance current source and be regaled by 257 PhD
dissertations on the subject, most of which consist of very near pure
calculus.

There is a huge amount of information out there, but much of it is wrong,
much of it is written to make the writer feel clever and much of it is
written at a level far above the capabilities of the average new student of
electronics. The remainder may be gold, but it can be damned hard to pan it
out.

I'd suggest that those of us who do know a bit, should put together a list
of good sites for newbies to reference. Perhaps this thread is a good place
to put forward suggestions.

John

 

[Jacobe Hazzard]

Baphomet wrote:

So many questions are asked on this newsgroup about how do I do this
or find that. At this point in time, it seems rather extrordinary
that people (especially students) wouldn't axiomatically do a Google
Search. Do "they" not teach the creative use of search engines in
universities and technical schools and if not, why not?

I can understand how the older farts such as myself who were taught
on slide rules and who cut their teeth on vacuum tube technology
might not be hip to this extraordinary new technology, but what
excuse do the younger generations have?

All responses would be appreciated, except those of course who
disagree with me ;-)

People ask questions in NGs because it's easy, and if it's on topic you
really have nothing to complain about. The idea of the NG is to connect
those with questions to those who enjoy answering questions and facilitate
the easy exchange of knowledge. If someone doesn't feel like answering a
question because it is not interesting to them, or beyond their expertise,
or simply because the information is available elsewhere, they are not
obligated to reply.
From the posters point of view, why try to mine google when you're not
always fully sure of what you're searching for, you're guaranteed to get
many thousands of results, and may find answers that are only partially
applicable or partially comprehensible? You could just ask your exact
question in SEB, hope for someone else to do the work for you, and then can
ask follow up questions later.
Many times, replies are given of the form "Search for 'xxy' in google" which
seems to help, simply by giving the salient search terms. Other times,
replies are given in the form "I put your question into google and got
12,000 hits, some of the ones on the first page looked like they might have
explained it..". Google is not an excellent tool for breaking into a new
subject of research, and shouldn't be credited with being the catalogue of
all human knowledge. In fact, the near monopoly of google over other search
engines and over internet searching in general troubles me quite a bit, for
other reasons. Have you ever wondered how they make money with google?

Adam

 

[JeffM]

For my part, I strongly recommend the link idea
and strongly disapprove of folks using up bandwidth and server disk space
to redefine (not even reinvent) the wheel,
when prior art (usually in greater detail)
already exists in zillions of places on the net.

....and if I can learn to google, the cyberpunk generation
--which so touts its mastery of the web--can do it.

Jeff (another old fart)

 

[Fritz Schlunder]

"Baphomet" <fandanospam@catskill.net> wrote in message
news:vntfeeekh6ck72@corp.supernews.com...

So many questions are asked on this newsgroup about how do I do this or
find
that. At this point in time, it seems rather extrordinary that people
(especially students) wouldn't axiomatically do a Google Search. Do "they"
not teach the creative use of search engines in universities and technical
schools and if not, why not?

I can understand how the older farts such as myself who were taught on
slide
rules and who cut their teeth on vacuum tube technology might not be hip
to
this extraordinary new technology, but what excuse do the younger
generations have?

All responses would be appreciated, except those of course who disagree
with
me ;-)

Although surely a substantial fraction of the questions that get posted to
these electronics newsgroups can be answered by google, I personally am
thankful that they get posted here instead (or in addition to).

One great benefit to me for following newsgroups is they expose me to allot
of ideas and things that I wouldn't normally have come up with on my own.
Surely if I sat down and started entering phrases into google I could learn
about a wide variety of subjects, but before I can start learning about
something I have to first hear about it or think about it myself. My
imagination only covers so many topics.

Meanwhile when I follow these newsgroups I invariably find postings about
all kinds of unusual questions from the common and typical (which can often
be answered very easily) to not so common and typical which aren't so easy
to directly answer. Often these tougher types of questions will conjure
thought and interest on my own part which will inspire me to learn about the
subject more before being able to provide a potentially useful answer.

An example of this was a thread a couple of days ago in S.E.D. from a guy
looking for transistors that operate at liquid helium temperatures (4.2K).
Previously I had never considered such a concept, and certainly I was
unaware of the existence of transistors that operate at such cold
temperatures (I had always assumed everything freezes out at those temps,
but apparently not so for everything). While doing a little research of my
own I learned a little bit about MODFETs and other things. Interestingly
enough one of the research papers I found was written in part by one of my
former professors.

If the OP had just googled until he found his answer I would not have
learned about low temperature transistors.

Personally I think people who reply to threads with "use google" should put
forth a little more effort and report back the answers they find on google.
That way everyone can benefit from the specific answer, and it is guaranteed
that google really does have the answer (IE, they are not just leading the
OP and lurkers astray in ways which will waste their time). Though google
really is great, it unfortunately still doesn't have everything.

 

[Michael Black]

JeffM (jeffm_@email.com) writes:

For my part, I strongly recommend the link idea
and strongly disapprove of folks using up bandwidth and server disk space
to redefine (not even reinvent) the wheel,
when prior art (usually in greater detail)
already exists in zillions of places on the net.

...and if I can learn to google, the cyberpunk generation
--which so touts its mastery of the web--can do it.

Jeff (another old fart)

Of course, in a lot of cases the same people who do not do some
searching to start with are the ones who don't bother to check
the library or bookstores for material. I learned when I was
a kid the usefulness of looking things up, and all these decades
later I can often find what I need because I've invested in books
and magazines.

There is a big difference between someone asking "where can I
find such and such" and someone asking "I was reading up on XXX,
and I still can't understand how it's supposed to work". In
the first case, it often is a matter of a search, and I'm not
sure we should be doing it if they can do it just as easily. If
they need help with the results they get, then that's more fitting
for the newsgroup. If someone is trying to understand how something
is working, or get some bit of knowledge that comes with time,
then it does fit this newsgroup. One can very easily enter a device
number in a search engine to find a datasheet or where to buy it, I do it
myself. It is harder to find an answer to a question, sometimes because
finding the right keywords can be a problem, sometimes because the answer
may not be written down (at least not on the internet or not commonly).

If someone is asking for clarification of something, like that question
today about bypassing emitter resistors, it does fit the newsgroup. To
reply is part of a conversation, and maybe someone can supply a means
of visualizing the problem or solution that hasn't been cooked up before.
And others can learn from a real answer (and let's not forget that people
don't really hang out in newsgroups for the chance to answer questions;
they hang out because there is some reason to do so, and since they are
there they will reply to posts when they have something to say).

Michael

 

[Garrett Mace]

Personally I think people who reply to threads with "use google" should
put
forth a little more effort and report back the answers they find on
google.
That way everyone can benefit from the specific answer, and it is
guaranteed
that google really does have the answer (IE, they are not just leading the
OP and lurkers astray in ways which will waste their time). Though google
really is great, it unfortunately still doesn't have everything.

Another point is that for Google to be useful in finding the information,
someone must have posted it somewhere. If everyone lazily says "go Google
it" then we become consumers of knowledge, not contributors. Deja's and
Google's newgroup search functions add a new dimension to the newsgroup
scene; when you post an answer you are also contributing to a stockpile of
knowledge for others.

However, if the question is something like "pls nede batteys hints too lo
volts, want 2 hack my mom's diswasser mashine to go on battery's" then by
all means have at it. We all went through our clueless stage, but I got
through mine by paying attention to my science classes and finding books and
magazines to read.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

"Baphomet" <fandanospam@catskill.net> wrote:

So many questions are asked on this newsgroup about how do I do this or find
that. At this point in time, it seems rather extrordinary that people
(especially students) wouldn't axiomatically do a Google Search. Do "they"
not teach the creative use of search engines in universities and technical
schools and if not, why not?

I can understand how the older farts such as myself who were taught on slide
rules and who cut their teeth on vacuum tube technology might not be hip to
this extraordinary new technology, but what excuse do the younger
generations have?

All responses would be appreciated, except those of course who disagree with
me ;-)

I've wondered about same point a lot recently. So many queries could
have been resolved within a few minutes (often seconds) of googling.
That is, at least some relevant sources for initial study found. Then
a post here could have supplemented that initial study.


--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK

 

[Fred Abse]

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 23:40:05 +0000, Garrett Mace wrote:

However, if the question is something like "pls nede batteys hints too
lo volts, want 2 hack my mom's diswasser mashine to go on battery's"
then by all means have at it. We all went through our clueless stage,
but I got through mine by paying attention to my science classes and
finding books and magazines to read.

Quite.

What I find annoying is the sort of post that is an obvious verbatim quote
from a homework question. The guy/gal apparently is expecting someone to
provide a "model" answer that he/she/it can slavishly copy down, giving
more time to go hang out, or whatever today's young people do with their
leisure time (in my day, it was beer). It might get good grades, but
learning it isn't.

Something found out by oneself sticks far better than something received.
I agree that, if there are still unresolved questions, then ask, but the
usefulness of the 'Net as a learning tool is, IMNSHO, based on "Go find",
as opposed to "Go ask", in the first instance.

I sometimes wonder how today's students would cope with the textbooks of
my generation, some of which appeared to have been written by great
experts for the edification of other great experts. Is Bleaney & Bleaney
still published?

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)
nofr@sbhevre.pbzchyvax.pb.hx

 

[John Fortier]

"Jacobe Hazzard" <jacobe-hazzardR-E-M-O-V-E@eudoramail.com> wrote in message
news:UaFfb.216672$Lnr1.114039@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...

Baphomet wrote:
So many questions are asked on this newsgroup about how do I do this
or find that. At this point in time, it seems rather extrordinary
that people (especially students) wouldn't axiomatically do a Google
Search. Do "they" not teach the creative use of search engines in
universities and technical schools and if not, why not?

I can understand how the older farts such as myself who were taught
on slide rules and who cut their teeth on vacuum tube technology
might not be hip to this extraordinary new technology, but what
excuse do the younger generations have?

All responses would be appreciated, except those of course who
disagree with me ;-)

People ask questions in NGs because it's easy, and if it's on topic you
really have nothing to complain about. The idea of the NG is to connect
those with questions to those who enjoy answering questions and facilitate
the easy exchange of knowledge. If someone doesn't feel like answering a
question because it is not interesting to them, or beyond their expertise,
or simply because the information is available elsewhere, they are not
obligated to reply.
From the posters point of view, why try to mine google when you're not
always fully sure of what you're searching for, you're guaranteed to get
many thousands of results, and may find answers that are only partially
applicable or partially comprehensible? You could just ask your exact
question in SEB, hope for someone else to do the work for you, and then
can
ask follow up questions later.
Many times, replies are given of the form "Search for 'xxy' in google"
which
seems to help, simply by giving the salient search terms. Other times,
replies are given in the form "I put your question into google and got
12,000 hits, some of the ones on the first page looked like they might
have
explained it..". Google is not an excellent tool for breaking into a new
subject of research, and shouldn't be credited with being the catalogue of
all human knowledge. In fact, the near monopoly of google over other
search
engines and over internet searching in general troubles me quite a bit,
for
other reasons. Have you ever wondered how they make money with google?

Adam

 

[John Fortier]

"Jacobe Hazzard" <jacobe-hazzardR-E-M-O-V-E@eudoramail.com> wrote in message
news:UaFfb.216672$Lnr1.114039@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...

Baphomet wrote:
So many questions are asked on this newsgroup about how do I do this
or find that. At this point in time, it seems rather extrordinary
that people (especially students) wouldn't axiomatically do a Google
Search. Do "they" not teach the creative use of search engines in
universities and technical schools and if not, why not?

I can understand how the older farts such as myself who were taught
on slide rules and who cut their teeth on vacuum tube technology
might not be hip to this extraordinary new technology, but what
excuse do the younger generations have?

All responses would be appreciated, except those of course who
disagree with me ;-)

People ask questions in NGs because it's easy, and if it's on topic you
really have nothing to complain about. The idea of the NG is to connect
those with questions to those who enjoy answering questions and facilitate
the easy exchange of knowledge. If someone doesn't feel like answering a
question because it is not interesting to them, or beyond their expertise,
or simply because the information is available elsewhere, they are not
obligated to reply.
From the posters point of view, why try to mine google when you're not
always fully sure of what you're searching for, you're guaranteed to get
many thousands of results, and may find answers that are only partially
applicable or partially comprehensible? You could just ask your exact
question in SEB, hope for someone else to do the work for you, and then
can
ask follow up questions later.
Many times, replies are given of the form "Search for 'xxy' in google"
which
seems to help, simply by giving the salient search terms. Other times,
replies are given in the form "I put your question into google and got
12,000 hits, some of the ones on the first page looked like they might
have
explained it..". Google is not an excellent tool for breaking into a new
subject of research, and shouldn't be credited with being the catalogue of
all human knowledge. In fact, the near monopoly of google over other
search
engines and over internet searching in general troubles me quite a bit,
for
other reasons. Have you ever wondered how they make money with google?

Adam

Google makes money by providing corporations and research facilities with
specialised search facilities, for which they charge a fair amount. Google
have developed some pretty effective filters and data dictionaries, which
are available to those willing to pay for them. The free search engine we
all use is really a "loss leader" form of advertizing.

And if Google seems to be taking over the market, it's because they provide
the best service. Even Yahoo search actually uses Google technology.

 

[John Fortier]

"Fred Abse" <excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it> wrote in message
newsan.2003.10.05.10.09.09.992525@cerebrumconfus.it...

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 23:40:05 +0000, Garrett Mace wrote:

However, if the question is something like "pls nede batteys hints too
lo volts, want 2 hack my mom's diswasser mashine to go on battery's"
then by all means have at it. We all went through our clueless stage,
but I got through mine by paying attention to my science classes and
finding books and magazines to read.

Quite.

What I find annoying is the sort of post that is an obvious verbatim quote
from a homework question. The guy/gal apparently is expecting someone to
provide a "model" answer that he/she/it can slavishly copy down, giving
more time to go hang out, or whatever today's young people do with their
leisure time (in my day, it was beer). It might get good grades, but
learning it isn't.

Something found out by oneself sticks far better than something received.
I agree that, if there are still unresolved questions, then ask, but the
usefulness of the 'Net as a learning tool is, IMNSHO, based on "Go find",
as opposed to "Go ask", in the first instance.

I sometimes wonder how today's students would cope with the textbooks of
my generation, some of which appeared to have been written by great
experts for the edification of other great experts. Is Bleaney & Bleaney
still published?

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)
nofr@sbhevre.pbzchyvax.pb.hx

With regard to those Great Experts, writing for other great experts; This
something about which I have spent years yelling at engineers! It's all too
easy to write as though your reader knows everything you know, and it
doesn't occur only in text books. Have you ever tried to set up your new
electronic device and wondered why the writer insists on using acronyms
whose meaning is never explained or why they assume that some little old
lady, my mother, for example, will know the difference between an analog and
a digital output. I'm referring to her new home entertainment center, whose
instructions had me confused for a while.

Unfortunately, she has recommended me to all her friends, so now I seem to
have acquired a new career; high tech installer for LOLs :-(

John

 

[Fred Abse]

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 12:09:54 +0000, John Fortier wrote:

With regard to those Great Experts, writing for other great experts;
This something about which I have spent years yelling at engineers!

I've been an engineer for forty years, during which time I've tried hard
not to get yelled at. Didn't always work, though

There *are* situations where trying to explain a problem in "layman's
language" can be frustrating. The situation where you have to explain all
the groundwork before you can get to the actual problem. There are always
people who won't accept "This is the problem, the solution to which is
XXXX, and it's going to cost $XXXX" :-(

It's all
too easy to write as though your reader knows everything you know, and
it doesn't occur only in text books. Have you ever tried to set up your
new electronic device and wondered why the writer insists on using
acronyms whose meaning is never explained

Happens in technical manuals all the time. I think some writers dream up
confusing acronyms deliberately, out of schadenfreude.

or why they assume that some little old lady, my mother, for example,
will know the difference between an analog and a digital output. I'm
referring to her new home entertainment center, whose instructions had
me confused for a while.

My mother (RIP) had difficulty understanding such things as electric
kettles and toasters. I once bought her a microwave oven - imagine.

Unfortunately, she has recommended me to all her friends, so now I seem
to have acquired a new career; high tech installer for LOLs :-(

There's an example of a confusing acronym - took me a minute or too to
realize that you meant "Little Old Ladies", and not "Laughing Out Loud"
)

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)
nofr@sbhevre.pbzchyvax.pb.hx

 

[Garrett Mace]

"Fred Abse" <excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it> wrote in message
newsan.2003.10.05.13.38.37.456718@cerebrumconfus.it...

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 12:09:54 +0000, John Fortier wrote:

With regard to those Great Experts, writing for other great experts;
This something about which I have spent years yelling at engineers!

I've been an engineer for forty years, during which time I've tried hard
not to get yelled at. Didn't always work, though

There *are* situations where trying to explain a problem in "layman's
language" can be frustrating. The situation where you have to explain all
the groundwork before you can get to the actual problem. There are always
people who won't accept "This is the problem, the solution to which is
XXXX, and it's going to cost $XXXX" :-(

Oddly enough I've never had difficulty explaining things in layman's terms,
though I'd probably have trouble with "isolated tribe untouched by
civilization" terms. The key is assuming they know nothing, but you don't
have to teach them *everything* up to the point where your description
starts...you can just describe what they need to know. I've managed to go
all the way back to "you see, electricity is like water in a pipe" and still
keep them on board for the rest of the explanation of how music plays from a
stereo. For describing projects to managers, the best thing in the world is
some kind of chart showing the major components, but with enough detail that
they can skip over that and feel confident that you actually have more than
just the big picture. Managers are usually pretty good at sifting out what
they need to know, and don't like feeling they're being talked down to (even
though all they really WANT to know is that a solution exists, and it costs
$XXXX).

 

[John Fortier]

"Fred Abse" <excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it> wrote in message
newsan.2003.10.05.13.38.37.456718@cerebrumconfus.it...

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 12:09:54 +0000, John Fortier wrote:

With regard to those Great Experts, writing for other great experts;
This something about which I have spent years yelling at engineers!

I've been an engineer for forty years, during which time I've tried hard
not to get yelled at. Didn't always work, though

There *are* situations where trying to explain a problem in "layman's
language" can be frustrating. The situation where you have to explain all
the groundwork before you can get to the actual problem. There are always
people who won't accept "This is the problem, the solution to which is
XXXX, and it's going to cost $XXXX" :-(

It's all
too easy to write as though your reader knows everything you know, and
it doesn't occur only in text books. Have you ever tried to set up your
new electronic device and wondered why the writer insists on using
acronyms whose meaning is never explained

Happens in technical manuals all the time. I think some writers dream up
confusing acronyms deliberately, out of schadenfreude.

or why they assume that some little old lady, my mother, for example,
will know the difference between an analog and a digital output. I'm
referring to her new home entertainment center, whose instructions had
me confused for a while.

My mother (RIP) had difficulty understanding such things as electric
kettles and toasters. I once bought her a microwave oven - imagine.


Unfortunately, she has recommended me to all her friends, so now I seem
to have acquired a new career; high tech installer for LOLs :-(

There's an example of a confusing acronym - took me a minute or too to
realize that you meant "Little Old Ladies", and not "Laughing Out Loud"
)

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)
nofr@sbhevre.pbzchyvax.pb.hx

Which was actually just an example of my rather warped sense of humour;
adding a confusing acronym just after I'd complained about confusing
acronyms!

Must keep the WSOH in check!

 

[John Fortier]

"Garrett Mace" <g.ryan@macetech.com> wrote in message
newsFWfb.11432$832.3385@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...

"Fred Abse" <excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it> wrote in message
newsan.2003.10.05.13.38.37.456718@cerebrumconfus.it...
On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 12:09:54 +0000, John Fortier wrote:

With regard to those Great Experts, writing for other great experts;
This something about which I have spent years yelling at engineers!

I've been an engineer for forty years, during which time I've tried hard
not to get yelled at. Didn't always work, though

There *are* situations where trying to explain a problem in "layman's
language" can be frustrating. The situation where you have to explain
all
the groundwork before you can get to the actual problem. There are
always
people who won't accept "This is the problem, the solution to which is
XXXX, and it's going to cost $XXXX" :-(



Oddly enough I've never had difficulty explaining things in layman's
terms,
though I'd probably have trouble with "isolated tribe untouched by
civilization" terms. The key is assuming they know nothing, but you don't
have to teach them *everything* up to the point where your description
starts...you can just describe what they need to know. I've managed to go
all the way back to "you see, electricity is like water in a pipe" and
still
keep them on board for the rest of the explanation of how music plays from
a
stereo. For describing projects to managers, the best thing in the world
is
some kind of chart showing the major components, but with enough detail
that
they can skip over that and feel confident that you actually have more
than
just the big picture. Managers are usually pretty good at sifting out what
they need to know, and don't like feeling they're being talked down to
(even
though all they really WANT to know is that a solution exists, and it
costs
$XXXX).

If you have the confidence of the managers, it's not a great problem. If
they accept that you know more than they do on the subject at hand, and they
trust you, then they will generally accept your explanation, even though
they don't know everything about the subject.

Problems arise when you talk to them as they should know everything you know
and they are stupid if they don't. I've won more than one contract simply
because my bid was understood and those of my competition weren't. I
actually had one manager at a major gas company say to me; "Yours wasn't the
cheapest bid, but it was the only one that actually told us exactly what we
were getting for our money, so the job's yours."

Text books which are written for the peers of the author are generally
pretty useless, except as references once you have graduated. In a subject
that gets as esoteric as electronics, it's all too easy to frighten off
prospective students by swamping them in advanced differential calculus on
day one.

And. as far as I can make out, in many cases, the motive of the author is
not so much to pass on useful information as to demonstrate how clever he
is.

Presumably, the authors of dense and difficult text books are intelligent
people, but it Albert Einstein himself who remarked; "Being intelligent
doesn't stop you from acting stupidly."

John