Tivoli Model One radio tuner issue...

W

Wu Ming

Guest
Workhorse at my parents home for many years, recently became unusable
because could not tune on any radio station.

On multiple accounts a simple turning of the selector forth and back
repeatedly for few minutes should fix the issue. It did few years back but
the trick doesn’t work anymore.

Watched one video of restoration and the person performed a deep cleanse
with a spray: https://youtu.be/e8SwvMGxVik

Anyone with direct experience of it? Thanks for sharing.
 
On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 7:03:10 AM UTC-5, Wu Ming wrote:

On multiple accounts a simple turning of the selector forth and back
repeatedly for few minutes should fix the issue. It did few years back but
the trick doesn’t work anymore.

Anyone with direct experience of it? Thanks for sharing.
Click to expand...

If you look at the tuning capacitor in any older radio, you\'ll see that it consists of a bunch of interleaved plates, half of which are mounted on a shaft that rotates to let them mesh more or less. The more they are intermeshed, the higher the capacitance and the lower the tuned frequency. Taking a more careful look, you\'ll notice that the stationary plates are insulated from the frame of the capacitor while the rotatable plates are mounted directly on the shaft which is in contact with that frame. The electrical connection between the shaft and the frame is thru a ball bearing on one end and usually a brass spring on the other end. Both ends were lubricated at the factory, but, with time, that lubrication dries out and oxidation occurs. Metal oxides tend to be insulators. Once the contact between the shaft and the frame, where the radio makes its connection, becomes unreliable or intermittent, you\'ll stop getting reception or there will be a lot of noise as the shaft is turned.

Moving the shaft back and forth can break thru those insulating films. You can try Deoxit to remove the oxides and follow up with Shield to provide some longer term conductivity. I like to also add a bit of high quality corrosion preventive grease at the same time, for the longest term benefit.
 
jad...@vwtype3.org <jadney@vwtype3.org> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 7:03:10 AM UTC-5, Wu Ming wrote:

On multiple accounts a simple turning of the selector forth and back
repeatedly for few minutes should fix the issue. It did few years back but
the trick doesn’t work anymore.

Anyone with direct experience of it? Thanks for sharing.

If you look at the tuning capacitor in any older radio, you\'ll see that
it consists of a bunch of interleaved plates, half of which are mounted
on a shaft that rotates to let them mesh more or less. The more they are
intermeshed, the higher the capacitance and the lower the tuned
frequency. Taking a more careful look, you\'ll notice that the stationary
plates are insulated from the frame of the capacitor while the rotatable
plates are mounted directly on the shaft which is in contact with that
frame. The electrical connection between the shaft and the frame is thru
a ball bearing on one end and usually a brass spring on the other end.
Both ends were lubricated at the factory, but, with time, that
lubrication dries out and oxidation occurs. Metal oxides tend to be
insulators. Once the contact between the shaft and the frame, where the
radio makes its connection, becomes unreliable or intermittent, you\'ll
stop getting reception or there will be a lot of noise as the shaft is turned.

Moving the shaft back and forth can break thru those insulating films.
You can try Deoxit to remove the oxides and follow up with Shield to
provide some longer term conductivity. I like to also add a bit of high
quality corrosion preventive grease at the same time, for the longest term benefit.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the details. Interesting. Will try.
 
On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 6:47:33 PM UTC-4, Wu Ming wrote:
jad...@vwtype3.org <jad...@vwtype3.org> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 7:03:10 AM UTC-5, Wu Ming wrote:

On multiple accounts a simple turning of the selector forth and back
repeatedly for few minutes should fix the issue. It did few years back but
the trick doesn’t work anymore.

Anyone with direct experience of it? Thanks for sharing.

If you look at the tuning capacitor in any older radio, you\'ll see that
it consists of a bunch of interleaved plates, half of which are mounted
on a shaft that rotates to let them mesh more or less. The more they are
intermeshed, the higher the capacitance and the lower the tuned
frequency. Taking a more careful look, you\'ll notice that the stationary
plates are insulated from the frame of the capacitor while the rotatable
plates are mounted directly on the shaft which is in contact with that
frame. The electrical connection between the shaft and the frame is thru
a ball bearing on one end and usually a brass spring on the other end.
Both ends were lubricated at the factory, but, with time, that
lubrication dries out and oxidation occurs. Metal oxides tend to be
insulators. Once the contact between the shaft and the frame, where the
radio makes its connection, becomes unreliable or intermittent, you\'ll
stop getting reception or there will be a lot of noise as the shaft is turned.

Moving the shaft back and forth can break thru those insulating films.
You can try Deoxit to remove the oxides and follow up with Shield to
provide some longer term conductivity. I like to also add a bit of high
quality corrosion preventive grease at the same time, for the longest term benefit.

Thank you for the details. Interesting. Will try.
Click to expand...

If it\'s one of those open frame tuners, have at it. If it\'s one of those clear plastic super compact square tuners with plastic film separating the plates, then any cleaner you use that carries a lube that doesn\'t evaporate will detune the tuner. It will work, but it will cause your dial to be off, sometimes quite a bit. Over time, the error will slowly decrease but never go away. If the radio has an osc trimmer, you might be able to fudge a lot of the error away.
 
ohg...@gmail.com <ohger1s@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 6:47:33 PM UTC-4, Wu Ming wrote:
jad...@vwtype3.org <jad...@vwtype3.org> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 7:03:10 AM UTC-5, Wu Ming wrote:

On multiple accounts a simple turning of the selector forth and back
repeatedly for few minutes should fix the issue. It did few years back but
the trick doesn’t work anymore.

Anyone with direct experience of it? Thanks for sharing.

If you look at the tuning capacitor in any older radio, you\'ll see that
it consists of a bunch of interleaved plates, half of which are mounted
on a shaft that rotates to let them mesh more or less. The more they are
intermeshed, the higher the capacitance and the lower the tuned
frequency. Taking a more careful look, you\'ll notice that the stationary
plates are insulated from the frame of the capacitor while the rotatable
plates are mounted directly on the shaft which is in contact with that
frame. The electrical connection between the shaft and the frame is thru
a ball bearing on one end and usually a brass spring on the other end.
Both ends were lubricated at the factory, but, with time, that
lubrication dries out and oxidation occurs. Metal oxides tend to be
insulators. Once the contact between the shaft and the frame, where the
radio makes its connection, becomes unreliable or intermittent, you\'ll
stop getting reception or there will be a lot of noise as the shaft is turned.

Moving the shaft back and forth can break thru those insulating films.
You can try Deoxit to remove the oxides and follow up with Shield to
provide some longer term conductivity. I like to also add a bit of high
quality corrosion preventive grease at the same time, for the longest term benefit.

Thank you for the details. Interesting. Will try.

If it\'s one of those open frame tuners, have at it. If it\'s one of those
clear plastic super compact square tuners with plastic film separating
the plates, then any cleaner you use that carries a lube that doesn\'t
evaporate will detune the tuner. It will work, but it will cause your
dial to be off, sometimes quite a bit. Over time, the error will slowly
decrease but never go away. If the radio has an osc trimmer, you might
be able to fudge a lot of the error away.
Click to expand...

To be honest I have no idea. Maybe the video I linked in my original
question will tell you. Won’t have access to the device until next time I
visit my parents and this may take a while unfortunate.
 
Wu Ming wrote:
-------------------------
ohg...@gmail.com <ohg...@gmail.com> wrote:


If it\'s one of those open frame tuners, have at it. If it\'s one of those
clear plastic super compact square tuners with plastic film separating
the plates, then any cleaner you use that carries a lube that doesn\'t
evaporate will detune the tuner. It will work, but it will cause your
dial to be off, sometimes quite a bit. Over time, the error will slowly
decrease but never go away. If the radio has an osc trimmer, you might
be able to fudge a lot of the error away.


To be honest I have no idea. Maybe the video I linked in my original
question will tell you. Won’t have access to the device until next time I
visit my parents and this may take a while unfortunate.
Click to expand...

** See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hXeVQffq4s



....... Phil
 
Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
Wu Ming wrote:
-------------------------
ohg...@gmail.com <ohg...@gmail.com> wrote:


If it\'s one of those open frame tuners, have at it. If it\'s one of those
clear plastic super compact square tuners with plastic film separating
the plates, then any cleaner you use that carries a lube that doesn\'t
evaporate will detune the tuner. It will work, but it will cause your
dial to be off, sometimes quite a bit. Over time, the error will slowly
decrease but never go away. If the radio has an osc trimmer, you might
be able to fudge a lot of the error away.


To be honest I have no idea. Maybe the video I linked in my original
question will tell you. Won’t have access to the device until next time I
visit my parents and this may take a while unfortunate.


** See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hXeVQffq4s
Click to expand...

Auto lock-in, analog tuner. Interesting but doesn’t tell me much. Should
not be the plastic kind mentioned by ohg…because is not super compact. Next
time I will try cleaning and lubing.

For now tried to salvage at least the speaker function utilizing the
auxiliary port for streaming from an iPad. Unfortunately my parents never
understood how to use it.
 
Wu Ming wrote:
-----------------------
Phil Allison
ohg...@gmail.com

If it\'s one of those open frame tuners, have at it. If it\'s one of those
clear plastic super compact square tuners with plastic film separating
the plates, then any cleaner you use that carries a lube that doesn\'t
evaporate will detune the tuner. It will work, but it will cause your
dial to be off, sometimes quite a bit. Over time, the error will slowly
decrease but never go away. If the radio has an osc trimmer, you might
be able to fudge a lot of the error away.


To be honest I have no idea. Maybe the video I linked in my original
question will tell you. Won’t have access to the device until next time I
visit my parents and this may take a while unfortunate.


** See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hXeVQffq4s

Auto lock-in, analog tuner. Interesting but doesn’t tell me much. Should
not be the plastic kind mentioned by ohg…because is not super compact.
Click to expand...

** Fraid it is one of the \"super compact\' kind, open frame ones are much bigger.

> Next time I will try cleaning and lubing.

** Note ohg\'s advice.

FYI it is common for open frame gangs to become noisy when moved but rare with the compact examples.

........ Phil
 
Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
Wu Ming wrote:
-----------------------
Phil Allison
ohg...@gmail.com

If it\'s one of those open frame tuners, have at it. If it\'s one of those
clear plastic super compact square tuners with plastic film separating
the plates, then any cleaner you use that carries a lube that doesn\'t
evaporate will detune the tuner. It will work, but it will cause your
dial to be off, sometimes quite a bit. Over time, the error will slowly
decrease but never go away. If the radio has an osc trimmer, you might
be able to fudge a lot of the error away.


To be honest I have no idea. Maybe the video I linked in my original
question will tell you. Won’t have access to the device until next time I
visit my parents and this may take a while unfortunate.


** See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hXeVQffq4s

Auto lock-in, analog tuner. Interesting but doesn’t tell me much. Should
not be the plastic kind mentioned by ohg…because is not super compact.


** Fraid it is one of the \"super compact\' kind, open frame ones are much bigger.

Next time I will try cleaning and lubing.

** Note ohg\'s advice.

FYI it is common for open frame gangs to become noisy when moved but
rare with the compact examples.

....... Phil
Click to expand...

From my original post:

Watched one video of restoration and the person performed a deep cleanse
with a spray: https://youtu.be/e8SwvMGxVik
Click to expand...

With the compact kind we should obtain detuning if lube does not evaporate
completely (@ohg). Also because is auto lock-in substantial wiggle is
built-in already. As demonstrated in the video linked by you.

I remember tune-in always has been a bit odd with Model One. But video in
my original post shows tuning in vastly improved after cleansing. Or so I
assume since you mentioned background noise should not be an issue with
compact tuners.

Streaming to it I believed to be the definitive answer to this kind of
issue. Unfortunately reality hit me.
 
Wu Ming wrote:
--------------------------
** Fraid it is one of the \"super compact\' kind, open frame ones are much bigger.

Next time I will try cleaning and lubing.

** Note ohg\'s advice.

FYI it is common for open frame gangs to become noisy when moved but
rare with the compact examples.

....... Phil

Watched one video of restoration and the person performed a deep cleanse
with a spray: https://youtu.be/e8SwvMGxVik

With the compact kind we should obtain detuning if lube does not evaporate
completely (@ohg). Also because is auto lock-in substantial wiggle is
built-in already. As demonstrated in the video linked by you.
Click to expand...

** See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbjwiggmnrQ

I had one customer who decided to use spray lube ( WD40)) all over the open tuning gang of his FM tuner.
De-tuned the band so much only one station was left on the dial, way down the bottom end.

...... Phil
 
Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
Wu Ming wrote:
--------------------------
** Fraid it is one of the \"super compact\' kind, open frame ones are much bigger.

FYI it is common for open frame gangs to become noisy when moved but
rare with the compact examples.
** See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbjwiggmnrQ

I had one customer who decided to use spray lube ( WD40)) all over the
open tuning gang of his FM tuner.
De-tuned the band so much only one station was left on the dial, way down the bottom end.

..... Phil
Click to expand...
Wow that was unexpected. I now realize how big open frame tuners are. Also
very interesting to see how they are made.

Clearly Tivoli One has a compact one. Also as you mentioned compact rarely
become noisy when moved. I remember my parents picking up not much else
than noise but am not sure if from the tuner being noisy itself or just
incapable of tuning in. Will see what I can do. Just refining the streaming
solution perhaps.
 
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