TIP: Silicone rubber flat drive bands

N

N_Cook

Guest
Came across a useful resource, extending the silicone fold "flat"
collapsible funnels, source of preformed rubber. Similar items , going
up in size available in camping shops XMUG and XBOWL badged "Sea to
Summit" Perth Australia
http://www.seatosummit.com.au/products/kitchen/x-mug/
The mug one 75mm to 105mm diameter, 7 bands available up to 8mm wide.
At 1.8mm thick need splitting to .9mm so one good face and one usable in
many circumstances. So 14 bands or 28 if split widthwise.
4 of the 7 are regular flat , 3 are on the slope but uually usable I've
found. Not had any such useages return to me so I assume they have not
broken in use
The bowls I saw have a reduced range of sizes 3 up to 150mm and 5 up to
220mm diameter
 
Don't expect to have a clean external edge to the largest band. Someone
knows how to bond silicone rubber to plastic. Applying heat and/or
peeling action will only result in ripping the silicone. I would like to
know what the chemical/process that does that. At least the cup-size
marks are easy to grind off the internal surface
 
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 15:33:16 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote as
underneath :

Came across a useful resource, extending the silicone fold "flat"
collapsible funnels, source of preformed rubber. Similar items , going
up in size available in camping shops XMUG and XBOWL badged "Sea to
Summit" Perth Australia
http://www.seatosummit.com.au/products/kitchen/x-mug/
The mug one 75mm to 105mm diameter, 7 bands available up to 8mm wide.
At 1.8mm thick need splitting to .9mm so one good face and one usable in
many circumstances. So 14 bands or 28 if split widthwise.
4 of the 7 are regular flat , 3 are on the slope but uually usable I've
found. Not had any such useages return to me so I assume they have not
broken in use
The bowls I saw have a reduced range of sizes 3 up to 150mm and 5 up to
220mm diameter
Click to expand...

Nice one! Cost of cup seems to range approx Ł9 -12 in UK
C+
 
On 24/10/2013 07:43, Charlie+ wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 15:33:16 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote as
underneath :

Came across a useful resource, extending the silicone fold "flat"
collapsible funnels, source of preformed rubber. Similar items , going
up in size available in camping shops XMUG and XBOWL badged "Sea to
Summit" Perth Australia
http://www.seatosummit.com.au/products/kitchen/x-mug/
The mug one 75mm to 105mm diameter, 7 bands available up to 8mm wide.
At 1.8mm thick need splitting to .9mm so one good face and one usable in
many circumstances. So 14 bands or 28 if split widthwise.
4 of the 7 are regular flat , 3 are on the slope but uually usable I've
found. Not had any such useages return to me so I assume they have not
broken in use
The bowls I saw have a reduced range of sizes 3 up to 150mm and 5 up to
220mm diameter

Nice one! Cost of cup seems to range approx Ł9 -12 in UK
C+
Click to expand...

The funnels are much cheaper and fuller range, but smaller maximum
diameter. The bowls are about twice the price and not much silicone bandery
At the moment sousing the rim band in 3 different solventy type
chemicals trying to find something that will break the bond
 
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4agfa$21d$1@dont-email.me...
On 24/10/2013 07:43, Charlie+ wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 15:33:16 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote as
underneath :

Came across a useful resource, extending the silicone fold "flat"
collapsible funnels, source of preformed rubber. Similar items , going
up in size available in camping shops XMUG and XBOWL badged "Sea to
Summit" Perth Australia
http://www.seatosummit.com.au/products/kitchen/x-mug/
The mug one 75mm to 105mm diameter, 7 bands available up to 8mm wide.
At 1.8mm thick need splitting to .9mm so one good face and one usable in
many circumstances. So 14 bands or 28 if split widthwise.
4 of the 7 are regular flat , 3 are on the slope but uually usable I've
found. Not had any such useages return to me so I assume they have not
broken in use
The bowls I saw have a reduced range of sizes 3 up to 150mm and 5 up to
220mm diameter

Nice one! Cost of cup seems to range approx Ł9 -12 in UK
C+


The funnels are much cheaper and fuller range, but smaller maximum
diameter. The bowls are about twice the price and not much silicone
bandery
At the moment sousing the rim band in 3 different solventy type chemicals
trying to find something that will break the bond
Click to expand...

I hate to say it, but why not just buy replacement belts in proper sizes ?
It's got to be more practical, and actually cheaper in labour terms, if
you're trying to make a living at it ??

I have a couple of good suppliers that I can get just about any size from,
at very reasonable prices.

Arfa
 
On 25/10/2013 02:16, Arfa Daily wrote:
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4agfa$21d$1@dont-email.me...
On 24/10/2013 07:43, Charlie+ wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 15:33:16 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote as
underneath :

Came across a useful resource, extending the silicone fold "flat"
collapsible funnels, source of preformed rubber. Similar items , going
up in size available in camping shops XMUG and XBOWL badged "Sea to
Summit" Perth Australia
http://www.seatosummit.com.au/products/kitchen/x-mug/
The mug one 75mm to 105mm diameter, 7 bands available up to 8mm wide.
At 1.8mm thick need splitting to .9mm so one good face and one
usable in
many circumstances. So 14 bands or 28 if split widthwise.
4 of the 7 are regular flat , 3 are on the slope but uually usable I've
found. Not had any such useages return to me so I assume they have not
broken in use
The bowls I saw have a reduced range of sizes 3 up to 150mm and 5 up to
220mm diameter

Nice one! Cost of cup seems to range approx Ł9 -12 in UK
C+


The funnels are much cheaper and fuller range, but smaller maximum
diameter. The bowls are about twice the price and not much silicone
bandery
At the moment sousing the rim band in 3 different solventy type
chemicals trying to find something that will break the bond


I hate to say it, but why not just buy replacement belts in proper sizes
? It's got to be more practical, and actually cheaper in labour terms,
if you're trying to make a living at it ??

I have a couple of good suppliers that I can get just about any size
from, at very reasonable prices.

Arfa
Click to expand...

Because originals are a waste of time. I've never seen a supplier that
states their bands are newly made. They turn up wiht the telltale brown
staining inside the polythene bag.
I've never got in the routine of taking pics on disassembling stuff,
just marking mating pieces. I don't want a pile of bits hanging around
for the vagueries of the postal system and then high probability of the
wrong band arriving as usually no precise dimensions from the gooey mess
left behind. Fresh in memory the half hour to cut and try a band or 2 or
3 before reassembling. Speed/function tests can wait until convenient to
set up for it
What do you do when your supplier does not have the size of band that
you need?
 
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4d717$8a8$2@dont-email.me...
On 25/10/2013 02:16, Arfa Daily wrote:


"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4agfa$21d$1@dont-email.me...
On 24/10/2013 07:43, Charlie+ wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 15:33:16 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote as
underneath :

Came across a useful resource, extending the silicone fold "flat"
collapsible funnels, source of preformed rubber. Similar items , going
up in size available in camping shops XMUG and XBOWL badged "Sea to
Summit" Perth Australia
http://www.seatosummit.com.au/products/kitchen/x-mug/
The mug one 75mm to 105mm diameter, 7 bands available up to 8mm wide.
At 1.8mm thick need splitting to .9mm so one good face and one
usable in
many circumstances. So 14 bands or 28 if split widthwise.
4 of the 7 are regular flat , 3 are on the slope but uually usable
I've
found. Not had any such useages return to me so I assume they have not
broken in use
The bowls I saw have a reduced range of sizes 3 up to 150mm and 5 up
to
220mm diameter

Nice one! Cost of cup seems to range approx Ł9 -12 in UK
C+


The funnels are much cheaper and fuller range, but smaller maximum
diameter. The bowls are about twice the price and not much silicone
bandery
At the moment sousing the rim band in 3 different solventy type
chemicals trying to find something that will break the bond


I hate to say it, but why not just buy replacement belts in proper sizes
? It's got to be more practical, and actually cheaper in labour terms,
if you're trying to make a living at it ??

I have a couple of good suppliers that I can get just about any size
from, at very reasonable prices.

Arfa

Because originals are a waste of time. I've never seen a supplier that
states their bands are newly made. They turn up wiht the telltale brown
staining inside the polythene bag.
I've never got in the routine of taking pics on disassembling stuff, just
marking mating pieces. I don't want a pile of bits hanging around for the
vagueries of the postal system and then high probability of the wrong band
arriving as usually no precise dimensions from the gooey mess left behind.
Fresh in memory the half hour to cut and try a band or 2 or 3 before
reassembling. Speed/function tests can wait until convenient to set up for
it
What do you do when your supplier does not have the size of band that you
need?
Click to expand...

I always used to try to stock most sizes I was likely to see, and restock
when I would put in an order with our primary supplier of such, MCM
Electronics (I believe "Element 14" in the UK?).

That was in the days when belts were so cheap it made sense to do so, plus I
was working on lots of cassette decks, CD players, VCR's and the like in
those days. It was like stocking a range of capacitors, transistors, etc.
Common practice.

Times have changed, belt jobs are nowhere near as common, suppliers are
fewer, and prices on those common belt sizes much higher. I can no longer
buy belts just to have them sitting unused.

I still have lots of belts in stock, but special orders are becoming more
frequent these days, and some special belt sizes have to be substituted with
less than desirable replacements.

For example, some belts are VERY special insofar as dimensions. For example
the carousel belts for Sony CDP-CX355, 455 etc, where the circuit cannot
properly count or position the discs with a sub belt - at least I have not
found an acceptable sub. When Sony discontinues those belts, I'm going to
have a problem. Luckily that basic mech is still in production AFAIK - at
least you can still buy new similar models. Should be OK for the next few
years.

The approximately 2.8 x .05 inch belts (discontinued) which along with the
capstan belts dying in droves on their dual-well cassette dicks, are another
matter. The only sub I can find is a little too thin, and much too tight.

Mark Z.
 
On 25/10/2013 12:17, Mark Zacharias wrote:
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4d717$8a8$2@dont-email.me...
On 25/10/2013 02:16, Arfa Daily wrote:


"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4agfa$21d$1@dont-email.me...
On 24/10/2013 07:43, Charlie+ wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 15:33:16 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk
wrote as
underneath :

Came across a useful resource, extending the silicone fold "flat"
collapsible funnels, source of preformed rubber. Similar items ,
going
up in size available in camping shops XMUG and XBOWL badged "Sea to
Summit" Perth Australia
http://www.seatosummit.com.au/products/kitchen/x-mug/
The mug one 75mm to 105mm diameter, 7 bands available up to 8mm wide.
At 1.8mm thick need splitting to .9mm so one good face and one
usable in
many circumstances. So 14 bands or 28 if split widthwise.
4 of the 7 are regular flat , 3 are on the slope but uually usable
I've
found. Not had any such useages return to me so I assume they have
not
broken in use
The bowls I saw have a reduced range of sizes 3 up to 150mm and 5
up to
220mm diameter

Nice one! Cost of cup seems to range approx Ł9 -12 in UK
C+


The funnels are much cheaper and fuller range, but smaller maximum
diameter. The bowls are about twice the price and not much silicone
bandery
At the moment sousing the rim band in 3 different solventy type
chemicals trying to find something that will break the bond


I hate to say it, but why not just buy replacement belts in proper sizes
? It's got to be more practical, and actually cheaper in labour terms,
if you're trying to make a living at it ??

I have a couple of good suppliers that I can get just about any size
from, at very reasonable prices.

Arfa

Because originals are a waste of time. I've never seen a supplier that
states their bands are newly made. They turn up wiht the telltale
brown staining inside the polythene bag.
I've never got in the routine of taking pics on disassembling stuff,
just marking mating pieces. I don't want a pile of bits hanging around
for the vagueries of the postal system and then high probability of
the wrong band arriving as usually no precise dimensions from the
gooey mess left behind. Fresh in memory the half hour to cut and try a
band or 2 or 3 before reassembling. Speed/function tests can wait
until convenient to set up for it
What do you do when your supplier does not have the size of band that
you need?


I always used to try to stock most sizes I was likely to see, and
restock when I would put in an order with our primary supplier of such,
MCM Electronics (I believe "Element 14" in the UK?).

That was in the days when belts were so cheap it made sense to do so,
plus I was working on lots of cassette decks, CD players, VCR's and the
like in those days. It was like stocking a range of capacitors,
transistors, etc. Common practice.

Times have changed, belt jobs are nowhere near as common, suppliers are
fewer, and prices on those common belt sizes much higher. I can no
longer buy belts just to have them sitting unused.

I still have lots of belts in stock, but special orders are becoming
more frequent these days, and some special belt sizes have to be
substituted with less than desirable replacements.

For example, some belts are VERY special insofar as dimensions. For
example the carousel belts for Sony CDP-CX355, 455 etc, where the
circuit cannot properly count or position the discs with a sub belt - at
least I have not found an acceptable sub. When Sony discontinues those
belts, I'm going to have a problem. Luckily that basic mech is still in
production AFAIK - at least you can still buy new similar models. Should
be OK for the next few years.

The approximately 2.8 x .05 inch belts (discontinued) which along with
the capstan belts dying in droves on their dual-well cassette dicks, are
another matter. The only sub I can find is a little too thin, and much
too tight.

Mark Z.
Click to expand...

Are you talking toothed/timing belts for the Sonys?
As long as you allow for the more stretchiness of silicone rubber, ie
can have a belt that is thicker or wider or both then no problem. I did
find once I had to grind back a fixing post or something that was
fouling on a thicker silicone belt. I assume there must be long term
degradation problems with silicone rubber but not seen so far.
I suspect the tiniest .5x.5mm or so belts as on the rotation sensor/
milometer counter belts will be the first to fail. I suspect silicone is
more prone to rip at any imperfection , more so than neoprene
 
Tried petrol, nail varnish remover and methyl chloride paint stripper
over a day, on different parts of the rim. With a plectrum , could
separate the bit soused in paint stripper. Came away clean enough but
quite a bit of shear force required, perhaps longer or kept at an
elevated temp
 
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4d717$8a8$2@dont-email.me...
On 25/10/2013 02:16, Arfa Daily wrote:


"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4agfa$21d$1@dont-email.me...
On 24/10/2013 07:43, Charlie+ wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 15:33:16 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote as
underneath :

Came across a useful resource, extending the silicone fold "flat"
collapsible funnels, source of preformed rubber. Similar items , going
up in size available in camping shops XMUG and XBOWL badged "Sea to
Summit" Perth Australia
http://www.seatosummit.com.au/products/kitchen/x-mug/
The mug one 75mm to 105mm diameter, 7 bands available up to 8mm wide.
At 1.8mm thick need splitting to .9mm so one good face and one
usable in
many circumstances. So 14 bands or 28 if split widthwise.
4 of the 7 are regular flat , 3 are on the slope but uually usable
I've
found. Not had any such useages return to me so I assume they have not
broken in use
The bowls I saw have a reduced range of sizes 3 up to 150mm and 5 up
to
220mm diameter

Nice one! Cost of cup seems to range approx Ł9 -12 in UK
C+


The funnels are much cheaper and fuller range, but smaller maximum
diameter. The bowls are about twice the price and not much silicone
bandery
At the moment sousing the rim band in 3 different solventy type
chemicals trying to find something that will break the bond


I hate to say it, but why not just buy replacement belts in proper sizes
? It's got to be more practical, and actually cheaper in labour terms,
if you're trying to make a living at it ??

I have a couple of good suppliers that I can get just about any size
from, at very reasonable prices.

Arfa

Because originals are a waste of time. I've never seen a supplier that
states their bands are newly made. They turn up wiht the telltale brown
staining inside the polythene bag.
I've never got in the routine of taking pics on disassembling stuff, just
marking mating pieces. I don't want a pile of bits hanging around for the
vagueries of the postal system and then high probability of the wrong band
arriving as usually no precise dimensions from the gooey mess left behind.
Fresh in memory the half hour to cut and try a band or 2 or 3 before
reassembling. Speed/function tests can wait until convenient to set up for
it
What do you do when your supplier does not have the size of band that you
need?
Click to expand...

Well, for a start, they're called drive belts, not bands, so if that is what
you are searching on, I'm not surprised that you can't find any. The place I
get my turntable belts from, has just about every size you could possibly
need, with a huge cross-reference of the makes and models that they fit on.
I can assure you that they are absolutely new.

I get my cassette belts from a different supplier, and they carry 28 sizes
of square section belt, and 7 sizes of flat belt. I have found that this
covers pretty much every size and type of cassette belt that I ever need
these days. I keep a small stock of each size that I commonly use, so
delivery is not an issue, but even when I need a size that I haven't got,
both suppliers ship the same day as the order is placed, and use Royal Mail
First Class, which pretty much arrives next day with predictable certainty.

On the very rare occasions when a belt size presents itself that is not
covered by any of the available ones, then I normally use the next closest
size down, which is often very close anyway. In cases where it is a fixed
pulley / capstan arrangement, this is never normally an issue. Flat belt
drives are almost invariably this type of layout. Where there is a swinging
arm auxiliary pulley 'tapping' its drive from one of the long runs, then
occasionally, belt tension is an issue, but even in these cases when the
correct size cannot be sourced, a compromise that works can usually be
found, and I'm sure a bit of eBay research would probably turn up an exact
fit if you put your mind to it. As long as you don't go down too far on the
belt size, such that the tension may do long term damage to bearings, most
decks are pretty forgiving in my long and considerable commercial experience

Oh yes. And my cassette belt supplier's wares are also new. I have never
seen any belts in the condition you suggest from either of these suppliers,
and if I ever did, they would certainly be getting them back.

As to it taking you half an hour to carry out your procedure, using a
material that you don't even know the characteristics of, I don't know how
you manage to make any money at it. It takes me but a few seconds to assess
the size of belt required - and if it is in reasonably good condition, I
have a measuring chart that I can just take 10% off for stretch - lift one
off the hook, and pop it on. No cutting, no trial and error, and an original
item made for the job, with a consistent cross sectional size or thickness,
and made from a material that has been specified by a professional belt
manufacturer to have the right characteristics to do the job correctly, and
for a long time ...

Arfa
 
On 25/10/2013 18:22, Arfa Daily wrote:
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4d717$8a8$2@dont-email.me...
On 25/10/2013 02:16, Arfa Daily wrote:


"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4agfa$21d$1@dont-email.me...
On 24/10/2013 07:43, Charlie+ wrote:


Well, for a start, they're called drive belts, not bands, so if that is
what you are searching on, I'm not surprised that you can't find any.
The place I get my turntable belts from, has just about every size you
could possibly need, with a huge cross-reference of the makes and models
that they fit on. I can assure you that they are absolutely new.

I get my cassette belts from a different supplier, and they carry 28
sizes of square section belt, and 7 sizes of flat belt. I have found
that this covers pretty much every size and type of cassette belt that I
ever need these days. I keep a small stock of each size that I commonly
use, so delivery is not an issue, but even when I need a size that I
haven't got, both suppliers ship the same day as the order is placed,
and use Royal Mail First Class, which pretty much arrives next day with
predictable certainty.

On the very rare occasions when a belt size presents itself that is not
covered by any of the available ones, then I normally use the next
closest size down, which is often very close anyway. In cases where it
is a fixed pulley / capstan arrangement, this is never normally an
issue. Flat belt drives are almost invariably this type of layout. Where
there is a swinging arm auxiliary pulley 'tapping' its drive from one of
the long runs, then occasionally, belt tension is an issue, but even in
these cases when the correct size cannot be sourced, a compromise that
works can usually be found, and I'm sure a bit of eBay research would
probably turn up an exact fit if you put your mind to it. As long as you
don't go down too far on the belt size, such that the tension may do
long term damage to bearings, most decks are pretty forgiving in my long
and considerable commercial experience

Oh yes. And my cassette belt supplier's wares are also new. I have never
seen any belts in the condition you suggest from either of these
suppliers, and if I ever did, they would certainly be getting them back.

As to it taking you half an hour to carry out your procedure, using a
material that you don't even know the characteristics of, I don't know
how you manage to make any money at it. It takes me but a few seconds to
assess the size of belt required - and if it is in reasonably good
condition, I have a measuring chart that I can just take 10% off for
stretch - lift one off the hook, and pop it on. No cutting, no trial and
error, and an original item made for the job, with a consistent cross
sectional size or thickness, and made from a material that has been
specified by a professional belt manufacturer to have the right
characteristics to do the job correctly, and for a long time ...

Arfa
Click to expand...

"I can assure you that they are absolutely new. "
How do you know they have not removed them from original bags and
placed them in new bags?
Unless the bands are glooppy or lack restitution how would you know they
are NOS? servicable for only a few years of end of life.
Unless your supply company is supporting a currently available product
that uses baluster pulleys, what is the commercial motive?
If they are a genuine specialist supplier of new bands I would expect
them to go into some detail of how they are made and how they are
tested/QC'd etc and be an offshoot of the likes of Comrie or Martins or
Portmere , say, rubber companies
 
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4dl4j$ddv$1@dont-email.me...
On 25/10/2013 12:17, Mark Zacharias wrote:
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4d717$8a8$2@dont-email.me...
On 25/10/2013 02:16, Arfa Daily wrote:


"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4agfa$21d$1@dont-email.me...
On 24/10/2013 07:43, Charlie+ wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 15:33:16 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk
wrote as
underneath :

Came across a useful resource, extending the silicone fold "flat"
collapsible funnels, source of preformed rubber. Similar items ,
going
up in size available in camping shops XMUG and XBOWL badged "Sea to
Summit" Perth Australia
http://www.seatosummit.com.au/products/kitchen/x-mug/
The mug one 75mm to 105mm diameter, 7 bands available up to 8mm
wide.
At 1.8mm thick need splitting to .9mm so one good face and one
usable in
many circumstances. So 14 bands or 28 if split widthwise.
4 of the 7 are regular flat , 3 are on the slope but uually usable
I've
found. Not had any such useages return to me so I assume they have
not
broken in use
The bowls I saw have a reduced range of sizes 3 up to 150mm and 5
up to
220mm diameter

Nice one! Cost of cup seems to range approx Ł9 -12 in UK
C+


The funnels are much cheaper and fuller range, but smaller maximum
diameter. The bowls are about twice the price and not much silicone
bandery
At the moment sousing the rim band in 3 different solventy type
chemicals trying to find something that will break the bond


I hate to say it, but why not just buy replacement belts in proper
sizes
? It's got to be more practical, and actually cheaper in labour terms,
if you're trying to make a living at it ??

I have a couple of good suppliers that I can get just about any size
from, at very reasonable prices.

Arfa

Because originals are a waste of time. I've never seen a supplier that
states their bands are newly made. They turn up wiht the telltale
brown staining inside the polythene bag.
I've never got in the routine of taking pics on disassembling stuff,
just marking mating pieces. I don't want a pile of bits hanging around
for the vagueries of the postal system and then high probability of
the wrong band arriving as usually no precise dimensions from the
gooey mess left behind. Fresh in memory the half hour to cut and try a
band or 2 or 3 before reassembling. Speed/function tests can wait
until convenient to set up for it
What do you do when your supplier does not have the size of band that
you need?


I always used to try to stock most sizes I was likely to see, and
restock when I would put in an order with our primary supplier of such,
MCM Electronics (I believe "Element 14" in the UK?).

That was in the days when belts were so cheap it made sense to do so,
plus I was working on lots of cassette decks, CD players, VCR's and the
like in those days. It was like stocking a range of capacitors,
transistors, etc. Common practice.

Times have changed, belt jobs are nowhere near as common, suppliers are
fewer, and prices on those common belt sizes much higher. I can no
longer buy belts just to have them sitting unused.

I still have lots of belts in stock, but special orders are becoming
more frequent these days, and some special belt sizes have to be
substituted with less than desirable replacements.

For example, some belts are VERY special insofar as dimensions. For
example the carousel belts for Sony CDP-CX355, 455 etc, where the
circuit cannot properly count or position the discs with a sub belt - at
least I have not found an acceptable sub. When Sony discontinues those
belts, I'm going to have a problem. Luckily that basic mech is still in
production AFAIK - at least you can still buy new similar models. Should
be OK for the next few years.

The approximately 2.8 x .05 inch belts (discontinued) which along with
the capstan belts dying in droves on their dual-well cassette dicks, are
another matter. The only sub I can find is a little too thin, and much
too tight.

Mark Z.

Are you talking toothed/timing belts for the Sonys?
As long as you allow for the more stretchiness of silicone rubber, ie can
have a belt that is thicker or wider or both then no problem. I did find
once I had to grind back a fixing post or something that was fouling on a
thicker silicone belt. I assume there must be long term degradation
problems with silicone rubber but not seen so far.
I suspect the tiniest .5x.5mm or so belts as on the rotation sensor/
milometer counter belts will be the first to fail. I suspect silicone is
more prone to rip at any imperfection , more so than neoprene
Click to expand...

No, not toothed. As best I recall, near 4 point something inch
circumference, maybe around .06" thickness. The mech uses two of them at the
rear area - one to rotate the carousel, the other to clamp the disc. The
clamper belt is somewhat forgiving but not the carousel belt.

The part number is 4-225-876-01 as shown on page 57 of the CDP-CX455 service
manual.


mz
 
On 26/10/2013 10:50, Mark Zacharias wrote:
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4dl4j$ddv$1@dont-email.me...
On 25/10/2013 12:17, Mark Zacharias wrote:
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4d717$8a8$2@dont-email.me...
On 25/10/2013 02:16, Arfa Daily wrote:


"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4agfa$21d$1@dont-email.me...
On 24/10/2013 07:43, Charlie+ wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 15:33:16 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk
wrote as
underneath :

Came across a useful resource, extending the silicone fold "flat"
collapsible funnels, source of preformed rubber. Similar items ,
going
up in size available in camping shops XMUG and XBOWL badged "Sea to
Summit" Perth Australia
http://www.seatosummit.com.au/products/kitchen/x-mug/
The mug one 75mm to 105mm diameter, 7 bands available up to 8mm
wide.
At 1.8mm thick need splitting to .9mm so one good face and one
usable in
many circumstances. So 14 bands or 28 if split widthwise.
4 of the 7 are regular flat , 3 are on the slope but uually usable
I've
found. Not had any such useages return to me so I assume they have
not
broken in use
The bowls I saw have a reduced range of sizes 3 up to 150mm and 5
up to
220mm diameter

Nice one! Cost of cup seems to range approx Ł9 -12 in UK
C+


The funnels are much cheaper and fuller range, but smaller maximum
diameter. The bowls are about twice the price and not much silicone
bandery
At the moment sousing the rim band in 3 different solventy type
chemicals trying to find something that will break the bond


I hate to say it, but why not just buy replacement belts in proper
sizes
? It's got to be more practical, and actually cheaper in labour terms,
if you're trying to make a living at it ??

I have a couple of good suppliers that I can get just about any size
from, at very reasonable prices.

Arfa

Because originals are a waste of time. I've never seen a supplier that
states their bands are newly made. They turn up wiht the telltale
brown staining inside the polythene bag.
I've never got in the routine of taking pics on disassembling stuff,
just marking mating pieces. I don't want a pile of bits hanging around
for the vagueries of the postal system and then high probability of
the wrong band arriving as usually no precise dimensions from the
gooey mess left behind. Fresh in memory the half hour to cut and try a
band or 2 or 3 before reassembling. Speed/function tests can wait
until convenient to set up for it
What do you do when your supplier does not have the size of band that
you need?


I always used to try to stock most sizes I was likely to see, and
restock when I would put in an order with our primary supplier of such,
MCM Electronics (I believe "Element 14" in the UK?).

That was in the days when belts were so cheap it made sense to do so,
plus I was working on lots of cassette decks, CD players, VCR's and the
like in those days. It was like stocking a range of capacitors,
transistors, etc. Common practice.

Times have changed, belt jobs are nowhere near as common, suppliers are
fewer, and prices on those common belt sizes much higher. I can no
longer buy belts just to have them sitting unused.

I still have lots of belts in stock, but special orders are becoming
more frequent these days, and some special belt sizes have to be
substituted with less than desirable replacements.

For example, some belts are VERY special insofar as dimensions. For
example the carousel belts for Sony CDP-CX355, 455 etc, where the
circuit cannot properly count or position the discs with a sub belt - at
least I have not found an acceptable sub. When Sony discontinues those
belts, I'm going to have a problem. Luckily that basic mech is still in
production AFAIK - at least you can still buy new similar models. Should
be OK for the next few years.

The approximately 2.8 x .05 inch belts (discontinued) which along with
the capstan belts dying in droves on their dual-well cassette dicks, are
another matter. The only sub I can find is a little too thin, and much
too tight.

Mark Z.

Are you talking toothed/timing belts for the Sonys?
As long as you allow for the more stretchiness of silicone rubber, ie
can have a belt that is thicker or wider or both then no problem. I
did find once I had to grind back a fixing post or something that was
fouling on a thicker silicone belt. I assume there must be long term
degradation problems with silicone rubber but not seen so far.
I suspect the tiniest .5x.5mm or so belts as on the rotation sensor/
milometer counter belts will be the first to fail. I suspect silicone
is more prone to rip at any imperfection , more so than neoprene


No, not toothed. As best I recall, near 4 point something inch
circumference, maybe around .06" thickness. The mech uses two of them at
the rear area - one to rotate the carousel, the other to clamp the disc.
The clamper belt is somewhat forgiving but not the carousel belt.

The part number is 4-225-876-01 as shown on page 57 of the CDP-CX455
service manual.


mz
Click to expand...

Recently I was surprised to see a toothed timing belt driving the jocky
wheel assembly for Play/REW/FF of the spool drive on a Sony EV-S700
video /PCM audio recorder
 
Arfa

"I can assure you that they are absolutely new. "
How do you know they have not removed them from original bags and placed
them in new bags?
Unless the bands are glooppy or lack restitution how would you know they
are NOS? servicable for only a few years of end of life.
Click to expand...

FFS, What sort of suppliers do you use ??


Unless your supply company is supporting a currently available product
that uses baluster pulleys, what is the commercial motive?
Click to expand...

??? What are you going on about ? Do you seriously imagine that no one is
actually manufacturing drive belts any more ? My supply companies are
commercial suppliers of spare parts to the service trade. They are by no
means the only ones doing it, just a couple that I have found over the years
that provide all of the ones I need, reliably, in a friendly manner, and
reasonably priced. The commercial motive - not that I'm sure that you even
understand the concept of being "commercial" - is that there are still
service people like myself that need to replace belts in a variety of
equipment - both new and old. As long as we are still out there and buying
from them, then it's just another revenue stream like resistors or
capacitors or whatever.


If they are a genuine specialist supplier of new bands I would expect them
to go into some detail of how they are made and how they are tested/QC'd
etc and be an offshoot of the likes of Comrie or Martins or Portmere ,
say, rubber companies
Click to expand...

They are cassette and phono deck drive belts, for Christ's sake, not
safety-critical passenger jet alternator drive belts. They are made for the
purpose of being cassette and phono drive belts. Nothing more. Nothing less.
They are made from the right material, have a consistent profile, thickness,
straight edges, and have the right level of stretch and the right level of
friction to do the job. And no, I haven't measured any of those parameters
using a Bloggs & Splatch rubber band analysis engine from 1938 ...

I have no need to know the time of day they were made and how often the
machine operator took a dump. Over many years, I have found them to be
exactly what I need to do a reliable and above all commercially viable job,
and that's good enough for me. By all means, you carry on using bits of
string soaked in petrol-softened inner tubes. I will continue to make money
by doing the job properly.

Arfa
 
On 26/10/2013 12:39, Arfa Daily wrote:
Arfa

"I can assure you that they are absolutely new. "
How do you know they have not removed them from original bags and
placed them in new bags?
Unless the bands are glooppy or lack restitution how would you know
they are NOS? servicable for only a few years of end of life.


FFS, What sort of suppliers do you use ??


Unless your supply company is supporting a currently available product
that uses baluster pulleys, what is the commercial motive?


??? What are you going on about ? Do you seriously imagine that no one
is actually manufacturing drive belts any more ? My supply companies are
commercial suppliers of spare parts to the service trade. They are by no
means the only ones doing it, just a couple that I have found over the
years that provide all of the ones I need, reliably, in a friendly
manner, and reasonably priced. The commercial motive - not that I'm sure
that you even understand the concept of being "commercial" - is that
there are still service people like myself that need to replace belts in
a variety of equipment - both new and old. As long as we are still out
there and buying from them, then it's just another revenue stream like
resistors or capacitors or whatever.


If they are a genuine specialist supplier of new bands I would expect
them to go into some detail of how they are made and how they are
tested/QC'd etc and be an offshoot of the likes of Comrie or Martins
or Portmere , say, rubber companies


They are cassette and phono deck drive belts, for Christ's sake, not
safety-critical passenger jet alternator drive belts. They are made for
the purpose of being cassette and phono drive belts. Nothing more.
Nothing less. They are made from the right material, have a consistent
profile, thickness, straight edges, and have the right level of stretch
and the right level of friction to do the job. And no, I haven't
measured any of those parameters using a Bloggs & Splatch rubber band
analysis engine from 1938 ...

I have no need to know the time of day they were made and how often the
machine operator took a dump. Over many years, I have found them to be
exactly what I need to do a reliable and above all commercially viable
job, and that's good enough for me. By all means, you carry on using
bits of string soaked in petrol-softened inner tubes. I will continue to
make money by doing the job properly.

Arfa
Click to expand...

Take as a for instance as the first and only one that came up with my
search terms
http://www.gbaudio.co.uk/data/belts.htm
nowhere does it state they are new flat belts so I would not purchase
from there.
I would be a lot more confident that they were newly made if their range
of belts were listed as 20,25,30,35,40,45 ... mm diameter and not linked
to ancient makes and models with odd dimensions and then a separate
table of original band sizes and you could make your decision whether to
go over or under for replacements
 
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
[...]
And no, I haven't measured any of those parameters
using a Bloggs & Splatch rubber band analysis engine from 1938 ...
Click to expand...

Have you got one of those? That model was a lot more accurate than the
1939 version and is much sought after.


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
 
On 26/10/2013 16:20, Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
[...]
And no, I haven't measured any of those parameters
using a Bloggs & Splatch rubber band analysis engine from 1938 ...

Have you got one of those? That model was a lot more accurate than the
1939 version and is much sought after.
Click to expand...

They don't make things like they used to. My coil winding machine, made
in about 1926, I resucitated from being 20 years in a leaking garden
shed. I've just used my , made in 1918 in Conneticut, pair of parallel
jaw pliers, if I last out they will still be being used in 2018
 
"Adrian Tuddenham" <adrian@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:1lbcvwn.1t5qt591bl0tv6N%adrian@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid...
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
[...]
And no, I haven't measured any of those parameters
using a Bloggs & Splatch rubber band analysis engine from 1938 ...

Have you got one of those? That model was a lot more accurate than the
1939 version and is much sought after.


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
Click to expand...

No Adrian. Nigel bought mine ... :)

Arfa
 
On 26/10/2013 04:22, Arfa Daily wrote:
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4d717$8a8$2@dont-email.me...
On 25/10/2013 02:16, Arfa Daily wrote:


"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4agfa$21d$1@dont-email.me...
On 24/10/2013 07:43, Charlie+ wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 15:33:16 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk
wrote as
underneath :

Came across a useful resource, extending the silicone fold "flat"
collapsible funnels, source of preformed rubber. Similar items ,
going
up in size available in camping shops XMUG and XBOWL badged "Sea to
Summit" Perth Australia
http://www.seatosummit.com.au/products/kitchen/x-mug/
The mug one 75mm to 105mm diameter, 7 bands available up to 8mm wide.
At 1.8mm thick need splitting to .9mm so one good face and one
usable in
many circumstances. So 14 bands or 28 if split widthwise.
4 of the 7 are regular flat , 3 are on the slope but uually usable
I've
found. Not had any such useages return to me so I assume they have
not
broken in use
The bowls I saw have a reduced range of sizes 3 up to 150mm and 5
up to
220mm diameter

Nice one! Cost of cup seems to range approx Ł9 -12 in UK
C+


The funnels are much cheaper and fuller range, but smaller maximum
diameter. The bowls are about twice the price and not much silicone
bandery
At the moment sousing the rim band in 3 different solventy type
chemicals trying to find something that will break the bond


I hate to say it, but why not just buy replacement belts in proper sizes
? It's got to be more practical, and actually cheaper in labour terms,
if you're trying to make a living at it ??

I have a couple of good suppliers that I can get just about any size
from, at very reasonable prices.

Arfa

Because originals are a waste of time. I've never seen a supplier that
states their bands are newly made. They turn up wiht the telltale
brown staining inside the polythene bag.
I've never got in the routine of taking pics on disassembling stuff,
just marking mating pieces. I don't want a pile of bits hanging around
for the vagueries of the postal system and then high probability of
the wrong band arriving as usually no precise dimensions from the
gooey mess left behind. Fresh in memory the half hour to cut and try a
band or 2 or 3 before reassembling. Speed/function tests can wait
until convenient to set up for it
What do you do when your supplier does not have the size of band that
you need?


Well, for a start, they're called drive belts, not bands, so if that is
what you are searching on, I'm not surprised that you can't find any.
The place I get my turntable belts from, has just about every size you
could possibly need, with a huge cross-reference of the makes and models
that they fit on. I can assure you that they are absolutely new.

I get my cassette belts from a different supplier, and they carry 28
sizes of square section belt, and 7 sizes of flat belt. I have found
that this covers pretty much every size and type of cassette belt that I
ever need these days. I keep a small stock of each size that I commonly
use, so delivery is not an issue, but even when I need a size that I
haven't got, both suppliers ship the same day as the order is placed,
and use Royal Mail First Class, which pretty much arrives next day with
predictable certainty.

On the very rare occasions when a belt size presents itself that is not
covered by any of the available ones, then I normally use the next
closest size down, which is often very close anyway. In cases where it
is a fixed pulley / capstan arrangement, this is never normally an
issue. Flat belt drives are almost invariably this type of layout. Where
there is a swinging arm auxiliary pulley 'tapping' its drive from one of
the long runs, then occasionally, belt tension is an issue, but even in
these cases when the correct size cannot be sourced, a compromise that
works can usually be found, and I'm sure a bit of eBay research would
probably turn up an exact fit if you put your mind to it. As long as you
don't go down too far on the belt size, such that the tension may do
long term damage to bearings, most decks are pretty forgiving in my long
and considerable commercial experience

Oh yes. And my cassette belt supplier's wares are also new. I have never
seen any belts in the condition you suggest from either of these
suppliers, and if I ever did, they would certainly be getting them back.

As to it taking you half an hour to carry out your procedure, using a
material that you don't even know the characteristics of, I don't know
how you manage to make any money at it. It takes me but a few seconds to
assess the size of belt required - and if it is in reasonably good
condition, I have a measuring chart that I can just take 10% off for
stretch - lift one off the hook, and pop it on. No cutting, no trial and
error, and an original item made for the job, with a consistent cross
sectional size or thickness, and made from a material that has been
specified by a professional belt manufacturer to have the right
characteristics to do the job correctly, and for a long time ...

Arfa
Click to expand...

Would you care to let us know the name and/or contact details for these
suppliers? Fair enough if you don't want to, but I have a tape deck and
a record player both in need of new belts, and I don't live near enough
to you for it to make sense getting you to fix it.

Chris
 
"Chris Jones" <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:526c6aa9$0$1240$862e30e2@ngroups.net...
On 26/10/2013 04:22, Arfa Daily wrote:


"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4d717$8a8$2@dont-email.me...
On 25/10/2013 02:16, Arfa Daily wrote:


"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l4agfa$21d$1@dont-email.me...
On 24/10/2013 07:43, Charlie+ wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 15:33:16 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk
wrote as
underneath :

Came across a useful resource, extending the silicone fold "flat"
collapsible funnels, source of preformed rubber. Similar items ,
going
up in size available in camping shops XMUG and XBOWL badged "Sea to
Summit" Perth Australia
http://www.seatosummit.com.au/products/kitchen/x-mug/
The mug one 75mm to 105mm diameter, 7 bands available up to 8mm
wide.
At 1.8mm thick need splitting to .9mm so one good face and one
usable in
many circumstances. So 14 bands or 28 if split widthwise.
4 of the 7 are regular flat , 3 are on the slope but uually usable
I've
found. Not had any such useages return to me so I assume they have
not
broken in use
The bowls I saw have a reduced range of sizes 3 up to 150mm and 5
up to
220mm diameter

Nice one! Cost of cup seems to range approx Ł9 -12 in UK
C+


The funnels are much cheaper and fuller range, but smaller maximum
diameter. The bowls are about twice the price and not much silicone
bandery
At the moment sousing the rim band in 3 different solventy type
chemicals trying to find something that will break the bond


I hate to say it, but why not just buy replacement belts in proper
sizes
? It's got to be more practical, and actually cheaper in labour terms,
if you're trying to make a living at it ??

I have a couple of good suppliers that I can get just about any size
from, at very reasonable prices.

Arfa

Because originals are a waste of time. I've never seen a supplier that
states their bands are newly made. They turn up wiht the telltale
brown staining inside the polythene bag.
I've never got in the routine of taking pics on disassembling stuff,
just marking mating pieces. I don't want a pile of bits hanging around
for the vagueries of the postal system and then high probability of
the wrong band arriving as usually no precise dimensions from the
gooey mess left behind. Fresh in memory the half hour to cut and try a
band or 2 or 3 before reassembling. Speed/function tests can wait
until convenient to set up for it
What do you do when your supplier does not have the size of band that
you need?


Well, for a start, they're called drive belts, not bands, so if that is
what you are searching on, I'm not surprised that you can't find any.
The place I get my turntable belts from, has just about every size you
could possibly need, with a huge cross-reference of the makes and models
that they fit on. I can assure you that they are absolutely new.

I get my cassette belts from a different supplier, and they carry 28
sizes of square section belt, and 7 sizes of flat belt. I have found
that this covers pretty much every size and type of cassette belt that I
ever need these days. I keep a small stock of each size that I commonly
use, so delivery is not an issue, but even when I need a size that I
haven't got, both suppliers ship the same day as the order is placed,
and use Royal Mail First Class, which pretty much arrives next day with
predictable certainty.

On the very rare occasions when a belt size presents itself that is not
covered by any of the available ones, then I normally use the next
closest size down, which is often very close anyway. In cases where it
is a fixed pulley / capstan arrangement, this is never normally an
issue. Flat belt drives are almost invariably this type of layout. Where
there is a swinging arm auxiliary pulley 'tapping' its drive from one of
the long runs, then occasionally, belt tension is an issue, but even in
these cases when the correct size cannot be sourced, a compromise that
works can usually be found, and I'm sure a bit of eBay research would
probably turn up an exact fit if you put your mind to it. As long as you
don't go down too far on the belt size, such that the tension may do
long term damage to bearings, most decks are pretty forgiving in my long
and considerable commercial experience

Oh yes. And my cassette belt supplier's wares are also new. I have never
seen any belts in the condition you suggest from either of these
suppliers, and if I ever did, they would certainly be getting them back.

As to it taking you half an hour to carry out your procedure, using a
material that you don't even know the characteristics of, I don't know
how you manage to make any money at it. It takes me but a few seconds to
assess the size of belt required - and if it is in reasonably good
condition, I have a measuring chart that I can just take 10% off for
stretch - lift one off the hook, and pop it on. No cutting, no trial and
error, and an original item made for the job, with a consistent cross
sectional size or thickness, and made from a material that has been
specified by a professional belt manufacturer to have the right
characteristics to do the job correctly, and for a long time ...

Arfa


Would you care to let us know the name and/or contact details for these
suppliers? Fair enough if you don't want to, but I have a tape deck and a
record player both in need of new belts, and I don't live near enough to
you for it to make sense getting you to fix it.

Chris
Click to expand...

Chris. Contact me off group on the address used to post this from, and I'll
pass all the details to you

Arfa
 
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