Time for New Vacuum Cleaner ?

[Vacillator]

Hi,

I was using my Eureka Boss vacuum cleaner when it started making
a horrible flapping noise. Shut it off and started it again. Same
noise. Took it apart, cleaned some hair out of the beater bar. Started
it and it was quieter for about 3 seconds, then the horrible noise
started again. Replaced the belt, which was old and stretched. Ran
quiet for 2 seconds, then the horrible noise came back.

It's a "card in the bicycle spokes" kind of sound.

There is also a strange smell from the vacuum when this happens.

It's about 10 to 15 years old, so time to toss, possibly, but would
prefer to fix it if possible.

Any clues welcome. Throw it off a cliff ?


Thanks

 

[John Keiser]

Does it make the noise with the beater turned off?

Long shot:
Not sure about your model, but the beater bar ends are possibly held by
bearing holders retained in the plastic frame.
I had a Sears that overheated and the holders had distorted the frame enough
to make a similar noise.
[Fixed with a heat gun and some manipulation to reform slightly.]


"Vacillator" <user132384@aol.com> wrote in message
news:9c6e3ccc-e239-49bc-a30d-62f4ea97362a@g23g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...

On Nov 16, 12:30 am, Vacillator <user132...@aol.com> wrote:
Hi,

I was using my Eureka Boss vacuum cleaner when it started making
a horrible flapping noise. Shut it off and started it again. Same
noise. Took it apart, cleaned some hair out of the beater bar. Started
it and it was quieter for about 3 seconds, then the horrible noise
started again. Replaced the belt, which was old and stretched. Ran
quiet for 2 seconds, then the horrible noise came back.

It's a "card in the bicycle spokes" kind of sound.

There is also a strange smell from the vacuum when this happens.

It's about 10 to 15 years old, so time to toss, possibly, but would
prefer to fix it if possible.

Any clues welcome. Throw it off a cliff ?

Thanks

I should add that the beater bar does spin just fine when all this is
happening.

 

[Gnack Nol]

On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:11:37 -0800, Vacillator wrote:

On Nov 16, 12:30 am, Vacillator <user132...@aol.com> wrote:
Hi,

I was using my Eureka Boss vacuum cleaner when it started making
a horrible flapping noise. Shut it off and started it again. Same
noise. Took it apart, cleaned some hair out of the beater bar. Started
it and it was quieter for about 3 seconds, then the horrible noise
started again. Replaced the belt, which was old and stretched. Ran
quiet for 2 seconds, then the horrible noise came back.

It's a "card in the bicycle spokes" kind of sound.

There is also a strange smell from the vacuum when this happens.

It's about 10 to 15 years old, so time to toss, possibly, but would
prefer to fix it if possible.

Any clues welcome. Throw it off a cliff ?

Thanks

I should add that the beater bar does spin just fine when all this is
happening.

Some simple basics, The motor turns both the beater bar and a fan or two.
What you probably have is something inside the fan housing that is trying
to jam the fan or possibly the channel exiting the base into the bag is
stopped up due to failure to keep the bags changed and dust / dirt / lint
building up and holding other trash in the fan housing.

A simple thing that sometimes clears up this kind of problem is to run the
vacuum upside down and see if the object that is trying to get hung up in
the fan will then pass on into the bag. These include coins, screws,
broken plastic pieces, ect that are generally too heavy to be blown into
the bag with the cleaner in the upright position.

If this does not work then the solution is to check the air channel to the
bag for stoppage and to inspect the fans for threads hair or other foregn
objects.



Gnack

 

[Vacillator]

On Nov 16, 12:30 am, Vacillator <user132...@aol.com> wrote:

Hi,

I was using my Eureka Boss vacuum cleaner when it started making
a horrible flapping noise. Shut it off and started it again. Same
noise. Took it apart, cleaned some hair out of the beater bar. Started
it and it was quieter for about 3 seconds, then the horrible noise
started again. Replaced the belt, which was old and stretched. Ran
quiet for 2 seconds, then the horrible noise came back.

It's a "card in the bicycle spokes" kind of sound.

There is also a strange smell from the vacuum when this happens.

It's about 10 to 15 years old, so time to toss, possibly, but would
prefer to fix it if possible.

Any clues welcome. Throw it off a cliff ?

Thanks

I should add that the beater bar does spin just fine when all this is
happening.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

I'm really not trying to be funny... But maybe there /is/ a playing card
jammed somewhere in the moving parts.

 

[William R. Walsh]

Hi!

It's a "card in the bicycle spokes" kind of sound.

Don't underestimate the possibility of something being caught in it
somewhere--or a bad bearing in the motor or beater bar causing this.

I've seen a lot of different things when it comes to vacuum repair.
That is to say that my mother is VERY hard on vacuum cleaners, so I
keep several units in reserve. Most have been picked up off the curb
and restored to life after someone decided to suck up the entirety of
a recently demolished wall. It goes without saying that a household
vacuum cleaner is no match for that kind of abuse.

I haven't actually *bought* a vacuum cleaner in a long time because so
many of the units collected from the curb can be fixed cheaply and
relatively easily.

To give you an idea: one quote that springs to mind came up when I was
working outside one day and here comes my mother, with a vacuum
cleaner in hand, yelling "get it outside, it's smoking, it's smoking".

Later, I replaced the belt and pulled the wad of dog hair out of it.

There is also a strange smell from the vacuum when this
happens.

This could be a belt or other moving part that is jammed and getting
hot as a result. I'd take the unit apart, and check all of the beater
bar, motor shaft and fan to see if any of them are stuck or binding.

It's about 10 to 15 years old, so time to toss, possibly, but
would prefer to fix it if possible.

I think it's worthwhile to spend some time on it. A lot of today's
vacuum cleaners are cheap junk that wouldn't last more than a year or
two with any "real" use.

Depending upon how far you want to go, almost any problem with a
vacuum cleaner can be fixed. Some are just easier than others--a
broken belt or frayed power cord are simple fixes. A fan that's
missing a blade or that has a wallowed out drive shaft is a little
harder, but you should be able to get parts.

William

 

[Vacillator]

OK. Update. I ran the motor with the belt off. Got the same
noise. I noticed the shaft which turns the belt was a bit loose in the
motor. Or maybe the whole motor assembly was moving around in it's
mooring. Don't remember at this point. I turned the shaft and it
spun freely until it stopped. Turned it harder and it got over the
resistance, and kept moving, but then stopped again. This time I could
not get it to turn in either direction. Plugged it in for just an
instant and the motor just buzzed, but the stem did not revolve. I
only let it buzz for a fraction of a second. So now the motor is
stuck, apparently. I can see two fans, one on either side of the
motor. One is a big plastic fan and one is a smaller metal fan. The
plastic fan had a nut loosely holding it on. Maybe it was letting the
plastic fan flop around and make the noise. I tightened up the nut.
The nut tightened in the opposite direction of a normal nut,
interestingly.

From looking into the fans, I can't see any debris in there that would
interfere, Maybe one of the metal blades on the metal fan is bent, and
rubbing.

I fear that I turned the motor in the wrong direction (backwards)
(can't remember which direction) and screwed up the brushes. Is that
possible? I can force the metal fan to move by prying on it with a
screwdriver.

Thanks

 

[William R. Walsh]

Hi!

 OK. Update. I ran the motor with the belt off. Got the same
noise. I noticed the shaft which turns the belt was a bit loose
in the motor.

Sounds like a heavily worn bearing to me!

Or maybe the whole motor assembly was moving around in it's
mooring. Don't remember at this point. I turned the shaft and it
spun freely until it stopped. Turned it harder and it got over the
resistance, and kept moving, but then stopped again.
This time I could not get it to turn in either direction.
Plugged it in for just an instant and the motor just buzzed

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you lost a bearing in the vacuum motor. Turning
the motor forwards or backwards should not make a difference or mess
anything up. You probably lost the front bearing, as it is the one
that carries all the load.

You might be able to replace it (ask at a *good* electric motor repair
shop and bring the motor with you) or revive it with some penetrating
oil that also has lubricating qualities. In other words, WD40 won't do
much good for anything beyond possibly freeing things up. It has
nearly no lubricating value, although it can refresh tired grease and
oil if there is any.

If you can get bearings and don't mind installing them, they are not
terribly expensive. It should not be too hard to do it.

Check the brushes while you're at it. I'd doubt they need maintenance,
but with a vacuum that old, it's a toss-up depending upon how heavily
it was used.

Lubricating the bearings is cheap and easy to try, but they may
already have taken enough damage that one or both cannot be saved. Try
not to get lubricating or penetrating oil into the motor, as the
result may be a "bang!" when you power it on if the oil shorts across
the brushes in the motor. A good approach would be to put some
penetrating oil where you think it can get into the bearing and let it
sit overnight. Then try to work it back and forth to see if it loosens
up.

The plastic fan had a nut loosely holding it on.

The fan should be tight.

The nut tightened in the opposite direction of a normal
nut, interestingly.

That's not too uncommon. Hopefully it keeps the motor from working the
nut loose.

Don't force the motor to turn unless you're trying to lubricate the
bearings. And don't apply pressure to the fans, because they will
distort and putting them back into balance will be nigh unto
impossible.

William

 

[Baron]

Vacillator wrote:

OK. Update. I ran the motor with the belt off. Got the same
noise. I noticed the shaft which turns the belt was a bit loose in the
motor. Or maybe the whole motor assembly was moving around in it's
mooring. Don't remember at this point. I turned the shaft and it
spun freely until it stopped. Turned it harder and it got over the
resistance, and kept moving, but then stopped again. This time I could
not get it to turn in either direction. Plugged it in for just an
instant and the motor just buzzed, but the stem did not revolve. I
only let it buzz for a fraction of a second. So now the motor is
stuck, apparently. I can see two fans, one on either side of the
motor. One is a big plastic fan and one is a smaller metal fan. The
plastic fan had a nut loosely holding it on. Maybe it was letting the
plastic fan flop around and make the noise. I tightened up the nut.
The nut tightened in the opposite direction of a normal nut,
interestingly.

From looking into the fans, I can't see any debris in there that would
interfere, Maybe one of the metal blades on the metal fan is bent, and
rubbing.

I fear that I turned the motor in the wrong direction (backwards)
(can't remember which direction) and screwed up the brushes. Is that
possible? I can force the metal fan to move by prying on it with a
screwdriver.

Thanks

Sounds like its thrown a com segment.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[cjt]

William R. Walsh wrote:

Hi!

It's a "card in the bicycle spokes" kind of sound.

Don't underestimate the possibility of something being caught in it
somewhere--or a bad bearing in the motor or beater bar causing this.

I've seen a lot of different things when it comes to vacuum repair.
That is to say that my mother is VERY hard on vacuum cleaners, so I
keep several units in reserve. Most have been picked up off the curb
and restored to life after someone decided to suck up the entirety of
a recently demolished wall. It goes without saying that a household
vacuum cleaner is no match for that kind of abuse.

I haven't actually *bought* a vacuum cleaner in a long time because so
many of the units collected from the curb can be fixed cheaply and
relatively easily.

To give you an idea: one quote that springs to mind came up when I was
working outside one day and here comes my mother, with a vacuum
cleaner in hand, yelling "get it outside, it's smoking, it's smoking".

Later, I replaced the belt and pulled the wad of dog hair out of it.

There is also a strange smell from the vacuum when this
happens.

This could be a belt or other moving part that is jammed and getting
hot as a result. I'd take the unit apart, and check all of the beater
bar, motor shaft and fan to see if any of them are stuck or binding.

It's about 10 to 15 years old, so time to toss, possibly, but
would prefer to fix it if possible.

I think it's worthwhile to spend some time on it. A lot of today's
vacuum cleaners are cheap junk that wouldn't last more than a year or
two with any "real" use.

Depending upon how far you want to go, almost any problem with a
vacuum cleaner can be fixed. Some are just easier than others--a
broken belt or frayed power cord are simple fixes. A fan that's
missing a blade or that has a wallowed out drive shaft is a little
harder, but you should be able to get parts.

William

For years I've been using a Hoover commercial vacuum that I "rescued."

It had an industrial sized staple jammed in the motor; removing that
(and changing the bag, which was packed solid) was all that was required
to make it functional again.

 

[Vacillator]

Just want to say thanks for all the replies. I will be able to try
to get it all apart this weekend, maybe, and take it from there.


What is a com segment?


Thanks for all the good info, everyone.

 

[Baron]

Vacillator wrote:

Just want to say thanks for all the replies. I will be able to try
to get it all apart this weekend, maybe, and take it from there.


What is a com segment?


Thanks for all the good info, everyone.

The commutator is composed of a ring of copper segments on the end of
the armature (motor spindle). It is used to feed power to the windings
on the rotating part of the motor (the armature) via the brushes.

The segments are fastened by molding them in an insulator in such a way
as to provide electrical insulation between them and the armature
shaft. Occasionally one or more segments becomes loose. This is the
cause of the nasty rattling noise that you heard. At some point the
loose segment lifts so that it will no longer pass under the brushes.
It then hits the side of a brush and is ejected from the molding.
Often one of the brushes, one side will lodge in the gap left by the
ejected segment, locking the armature in place preventing rotation.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[SDS]

"Baron" <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:hduunf$2tqr$1@adenine.netfront.net...

Vacillator wrote:

Just want to say thanks for all the replies. I will be able to try
to get it all apart this weekend, maybe, and take it from there.


What is a com segment?


Thanks for all the good info, everyone.

The commutator is composed of a ring of copper segments on the end of
the armature (motor spindle). It is used to feed power to the windings
on the rotating part of the motor (the armature) via the brushes.

The segments are fastened by molding them in an insulator in such a way
as to provide electrical insulation between them and the armature
shaft. Occasionally one or more segments becomes loose. This is the
cause of the nasty rattling noise that you heard. At some point the
loose segment lifts so that it will no longer pass under the brushes.
It then hits the side of a brush and is ejected from the molding.
Often one of the brushes, one side will lodge in the gap left by the
ejected segment, locking the armature in place preventing rotation.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

I agree that is likely from the description.

If you're going to open it up, remove the impeller fan to see if the
underside of the fan is melted by a hair jam. I saw this alot when we
refurbished Eurekas and Hoovers. While the fan is removed you may be able
to see if the sleeve bearing has an elongated hole.
Scott

 

[bz]

I have a similar problem.

It is a 'bagless upright' Model Number: 116.31732000 kenmore
It appears to need bearings [from the shaft play and the loud
clicking/clunking sound and feeling as I rotate the shaft.

It had been 'working' since I 'purchased it' "curbside" [for no money(I
get a lot of vacuum cleaners that way)] one day on the way to work. The
last belt replacement seems to have been the final straw that broke the
bearing's back.

It seems so well made that I can't figure out how to get to the motor ...
....

Google has not been able to help me.

Can anyone tell me how to crack this one open?

--

bz 73 de N5BZ k
please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

bz+ser@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

 

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:39:55 +0000 (UTC), bz
<bz+ser@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote:

I have a similar problem.

It is a 'bagless upright' Model Number: 116.31732000 kenmore
It appears to need bearings [from the shaft play and the loud
clicking/clunking sound and feeling as I rotate the shaft.

It had been 'working' since I 'purchased it' "curbside" [for no money(I
get a lot of vacuum cleaners that way)] one day on the way to work. The
last belt replacement seems to have been the final straw that broke the
bearing's back.

It seems so well made that I can't figure out how to get to the motor ...
....

Google has not been able to help me.

Can anyone tell me how to crack this one open?

The Sears Parts site has exploded drawings of this model:
http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/getSubComp.pd?modelNumber=11631732000&productCategoryId=0645000&brandId=0582&modelName=UPRIGHT-VACUUM&diagramPageId=00002&componentDescription=DUST%20COMPARTMENT%20AND%20MOTOR&documentId=P0203054&blt=06

Watch for wrap on the really long URL, or just go to
http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/index.action?sid=PSHx20080114x00001

and enter the part number The diagram you want is probably under
Dust Compartment and Motor

John

 

[Baron]

bz wrote:

news@jecarter.us wrote in
news:qmr8g5dv82bat7aolgcr2aofpd262nbsin@4ax.com:

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:39:55 +0000 (UTC), bz
bz+ser@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote:

I have a similar problem.

It is a 'bagless upright' Model Number: 116.31732000 kenmore
....
It seems so well made that I can't figure out how to get to the motor
....
Can anyone tell me how to crack this one open?

The Sears Parts site has exploded drawings of this model:

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/getSubComp.pd?modelNumber=116

31732000&productCategoryId=0645000&brandId=0582&modelName=UPRIGHT-VACUUM&

diagramPageId=00002&componentDescription=DUST%20COMPARTMENT%20AND%20MOTOR
&documentId=P0203054&blt=06

Watch for wrap on the really long URL, or just go to

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/index.action?sid=PSHx20080114
x00001

and enter the part number The diagram you want is probably under
Dust Compartment and Motor

John

Thanks a meg John. That is the model, and I think the diagram will
help me figure out how to get to the motor.

Looks like they do have the motors in stock, which should help if I
can't find the bearings. Thanks again!

My wife had put it out in the carport for the next Salvation Army trip
but
I just brought it back in the house. Will explain when she comes home.

I suspect that it will be a sealed motor and only available as a unit.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[bz]

news@jecarter.us wrote in news:qmr8g5dv82bat7aolgcr2aofpd262nbsin@4ax.com:

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:39:55 +0000 (UTC), bz
bz+ser@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote:

I have a similar problem.

It is a 'bagless upright' Model Number: 116.31732000 kenmore
.....
It seems so well made that I can't figure out how to get to the motor
.....
Can anyone tell me how to crack this one open?

The Sears Parts site has exploded drawings of this model:
http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/getSubComp.pd?modelNumber=116
31732000&productCategoryId=0645000&brandId=0582&modelName=UPRIGHT-VACUUM&
diagramPageId=00002&componentDescription=DUST%20COMPARTMENT%20AND%20MOTOR
&documentId=P0203054&blt=06

Watch for wrap on the really long URL, or just go to
http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/index.action?sid=PSHx20080114
x00001

and enter the part number The diagram you want is probably under
Dust Compartment and Motor

John

Thanks a meg John. That is the model, and I think the diagram will help me
figure out how to get to the motor.

Looks like they do have the motors in stock, which should help if I can't
find the bearings. Thanks again!

My wife had put it out in the carport for the next Salvation Army trip but
I just brought it back in the house. Will explain when she comes home.



--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

 

[hr(bob) hofmann@att.net]

On Nov 18, 5:10 pm, Baron <baron.nos...@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

bz wrote:
n...@jecarter.us wrote in
news:qmr8g5dv82bat7aolgcr2aofpd262nbsin@4ax.com:

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:39:55 +0000 (UTC), bz
bz+...@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote:

I have a similar problem.

It is a 'bagless upright' Model Number: 116.31732000 kenmore
....
It seems so well made that I can't figure out how to get to the motor
....
Can anyone tell me how to crack this one open?

The Sears Parts site has exploded drawings of this model:

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/getSubComp.pd?modelNumber...

31732000&productCategoryId=0645000&brandId=0582&modelName=UPRIGHT-VACUUM&

diagramPageId=00002&componentDescription=DUST%20COMPARTMENT%20AND%20MOTOR>> &documentId=P0203054&blt=06

Watch for wrap on the really long URL, or just go to

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/index.action?sid=PSHx2008....





x00001

and enter the part number  The diagram you want is probably under
Dust Compartment and Motor

John

Thanks a meg John. That is the model, and I think the diagram will
help me figure out how to get to the motor.

Looks like they do have the motors in stock, which should help if I
can't find the bearings. Thanks again!

My wife had put it out in the carport for the next Salvation Army trip
but
I just brought it back in the house. Will explain when she comes home.
 

I suspect that it will be a sealed motor and only available as a unit.

--
Best Regards:
                     Baron.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sometimes the fan cover is pressed onto the motor cover and you have
to tap around the perimeter of the cover with a screwdriver and hammer
to get it off.

 

[Vacillator]

If you're going to open it up, remove the impeller fan to see if the
underside of the fan is melted by a hair jam. I saw this alot when we
refurbished Eurekas and Hoovers. While the fan is removed you may be able
to see if the sleeve bearing has an elongated hole.
Scott

How do you get the fan off? I want to take off the large white
plastic fan, It turns on the threaded shaft but won't come off. Should
I just force it off ???

BTW, 5 silver ball bearings rattled out of the motor when I got it
apart.

And it was completely packed with furry fluffy stuff, which I assume
is all junk that I can throw away, not some sort of insulation.

Can't tell by looking how to fix it, other than to buy some new ball
bearings and reinsert them wherever they were before.

I can see one end of the shaft has a seat that can hold bearings, but
I haven't seen the other end yet. Still under the plastic fan.

 

[Baron]

Vacillator wrote:

How do you get the fan off? I want to take off the large white
plastic fan, It turns on the threaded shaft but won't come off. Should
I just force it off ???

The fan is normally held in place by a nut & washer on the end of the
shaft. If it can be rotated independently of the shaft, then it should
just pull off. Some fans have a shaped hole to key the fan to the
shaft.

BTW, 5 silver ball bearings rattled out of the motor when I got it
apart.

Ah probably bearing failure ! Make sure that the brush gear isn't
damaged.

And it was completely packed with furry fluffy stuff, which I assume
is all junk that I can throw away, not some sort of insulation.

That sounds like dirt & fluff, that creates a felt, lint substance which
can be disposed of. That is debris that would normally have gone into
the bag.

Can't tell by looking how to fix it, other than to buy some new ball
bearings and reinsert them wherever they were before.

You might find that the ball race is riveted in place. I have seen
motors with a sleeve bearing at one or both ends.

I can see one end of the shaft has a seat that can hold bearings, but
I haven't seen the other end yet. Still under the plastic fan.

Lets know when you get the fan off.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.