TIA/EIA 568 A vs. B...

[Ricky]

I was looking up the wiring diagrams for Ethernet cables and found TIA/EIA 568A and TIA/EIA 568B wiring diagrams. They seem to be wired the same, but for the colors used. They swap green and orange. At first I thought I was looking at a crossover cable, but no, they clearly say they should be connected the same at each end. One uses orange and green pairs, while the other uses green and orange pairs for half the signals.

This reminds me of the Star Trek episode where the Black/White guy was fighting the White/Black guy.

Anyone know what\'s going on with TIA/EIA 568 A vs. B?

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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[whit3rd]

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 6:22:03 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

I was looking up the wiring diagrams for Ethernet cables and found TIA/EIA 568A and TIA/EIA 568B
wiring diagrams. They seem to be wired the same, but for the colors used. They swap green and orange.
At first I thought I was looking at a crossover cable, but no, they clearly say they should be
connected the same at each end. One uses orange and green pairs, while the other uses
green and orange pairs for half the signals.

All \'normal\' patch cables are 568B, so that\'s the only spec I\'d ever want to use.
568A on one end, and 568B on the other end, swaps send/receive pairs so you could
connect two hosts (but usually it\'s a mess if you connect that cable host-to-hub
with the old 10baseT or 100baseT units). 1000baseT is smart enough to work with a
variety of different pair swaps; POE, I\'m not sure of.

The early (10baseT and 100baseT and AUI and even AAUI) twisted-pair interfaces were send-pair/receive-pair
wired, and only a \'crossover\' cable allowed connecting hosts together. Every hub or switch
performed the crossover function internally, sometimes with a \'special\' switch or connector
for connecting to another hub/switch.

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 2:24:29 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 6:22:03 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
I was looking up the wiring diagrams for Ethernet cables and found TIA/EIA 568A and TIA/EIA 568B
wiring diagrams. They seem to be wired the same, but for the colors used. They swap green and orange.
At first I thought I was looking at a crossover cable, but no, they clearly say they should be
connected the same at each end. One uses orange and green pairs, while the other uses
green and orange pairs for half the signals.
All \'normal\' patch cables are 568B, so that\'s the only spec I\'d ever want to use.
568A on one end, and 568B on the other end, swaps send/receive pairs so you could
connect two hosts (but usually it\'s a mess if you connect that cable host-to-hub
with the old 10baseT or 100baseT units). 1000baseT is smart enough to work with a
variety of different pair swaps; POE, I\'m not sure of.

The early (10baseT and 100baseT and AUI and even AAUI) twisted-pair interfaces were send-pair/receive-pair
wired, and only a \'crossover\' cable allowed connecting hosts together. Every hub or switch
performed the crossover function internally, sometimes with a \'special\' switch or connector
for connecting to another hub/switch.

I\'m not clear on your preference of B over A. There\'s no electrical difference between A and B. It\'s just the color of the insulation inside the cable. Who cares???

BTW, what\'s the difference between a \"patch\" cable and other Ethernet cables (not talking about crossover). Cablestogo indicates some cables are \"patch\" cables with other options not being related, such as \"snagless\", \"slim\", \"unbooted\", \"unshielded\". These other features are orthogonal to \"patch\" cables as far as I can tell. What\'s different about a not \"patch\" cable?

BTW, using 568A on one end and 568B on the other end, only swaps two pair of wires. The blue and the brown are still straight through. Are they not used in CAT5e?


--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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[John Walliker]

On Saturday, 5 November 2022 at 08:13:43 UTC, Ricky wrote:

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 2:24:29 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 6:22:03 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
I was looking up the wiring diagrams for Ethernet cables and found TIA/EIA 568A and TIA/EIA 568B
wiring diagrams. They seem to be wired the same, but for the colors used. They swap green and orange.
At first I thought I was looking at a crossover cable, but no, they clearly say they should be
connected the same at each end. One uses orange and green pairs, while the other uses
green and orange pairs for half the signals.
All \'normal\' patch cables are 568B, so that\'s the only spec I\'d ever want to use.
568A on one end, and 568B on the other end, swaps send/receive pairs so you could
connect two hosts (but usually it\'s a mess if you connect that cable host-to-hub
with the old 10baseT or 100baseT units). 1000baseT is smart enough to work with a
variety of different pair swaps; POE, I\'m not sure of.

The early (10baseT and 100baseT and AUI and even AAUI) twisted-pair interfaces were send-pair/receive-pair
wired, and only a \'crossover\' cable allowed connecting hosts together. Every hub or switch
performed the crossover function internally, sometimes with a \'special\' switch or connector
for connecting to another hub/switch.
I\'m not clear on your preference of B over A. There\'s no electrical difference between A and B. It\'s just the color of the insulation inside the cable. Who cares???

BTW, what\'s the difference between a \"patch\" cable and other Ethernet cables (not talking about crossover). Cablestogo indicates some cables are \"patch\" cables with other options not being related, such as \"snagless\", \"slim\", \"unbooted\", \"unshielded\". These other features are orthogonal to \"patch\" cables as far as I can tell. What\'s different about a not \"patch\" cable?

BTW, using 568A on one end and 568B on the other end, only swaps two pair of wires. The blue and the brown are still straight through. Are they not used in CAT5e?

CAT5e is just a performance spec. The number of wires used depends on the connection
speed. 10 and 100Mbit/s use two pairs. 1, 2.5, 5 and 10Gbit/s use all four pairs.
Speeds above 2.5Gbit/s need better cable than CAT5e. Better generally means
that the pairs are either individually shielded with metallised foil or are separated
with a cross-shaped plastic spacer to reduce crosstalk. High-frequency attenuation is
also better on the higher-numbered types which typically use slightly thicker wire.
Any of the varieties may also have an overall shield.
568B does seem to be the most widely used colour standard. A and B are NEVER intended
to be mixed on a single cable. I think the difference may have come about in an attempt
to make the colours compatible with certain standards for telephone wiring in buildings
which vary in different parts of the world.
Patch cables use stranded wire and are intended to be moved repeatedly without damage.
Non patch cables are single strand and are used for fixed infrastructure. RJ45 crimp-on
connectors are usually only suitable for stranded wire, but there are some that can be
used on both types.

John

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 5:15:17 AM UTC-4, John Walliker wrote:

On Saturday, 5 November 2022 at 08:13:43 UTC, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 2:24:29 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 6:22:03 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
I was looking up the wiring diagrams for Ethernet cables and found TIA/EIA 568A and TIA/EIA 568B
wiring diagrams. They seem to be wired the same, but for the colors used. They swap green and orange.
At first I thought I was looking at a crossover cable, but no, they clearly say they should be
connected the same at each end. One uses orange and green pairs, while the other uses
green and orange pairs for half the signals.
All \'normal\' patch cables are 568B, so that\'s the only spec I\'d ever want to use.
568A on one end, and 568B on the other end, swaps send/receive pairs so you could
connect two hosts (but usually it\'s a mess if you connect that cable host-to-hub
with the old 10baseT or 100baseT units). 1000baseT is smart enough to work with a
variety of different pair swaps; POE, I\'m not sure of.

The early (10baseT and 100baseT and AUI and even AAUI) twisted-pair interfaces were send-pair/receive-pair
wired, and only a \'crossover\' cable allowed connecting hosts together.. Every hub or switch
performed the crossover function internally, sometimes with a \'special\' switch or connector
for connecting to another hub/switch.
I\'m not clear on your preference of B over A. There\'s no electrical difference between A and B. It\'s just the color of the insulation inside the cable. Who cares???

BTW, what\'s the difference between a \"patch\" cable and other Ethernet cables (not talking about crossover). Cablestogo indicates some cables are \"patch\" cables with other options not being related, such as \"snagless\", \"slim\", \"unbooted\", \"unshielded\". These other features are orthogonal to \"patch\" cables as far as I can tell. What\'s different about a not \"patch\" cable?

BTW, using 568A on one end and 568B on the other end, only swaps two pair of wires. The blue and the brown are still straight through. Are they not used in CAT5e?

CAT5e is just a performance spec. The number of wires used depends on the connection
speed. 10 and 100Mbit/s use two pairs. 1, 2.5, 5 and 10Gbit/s use all four pairs.
Speeds above 2.5Gbit/s need better cable than CAT5e. Better generally means
that the pairs are either individually shielded with metallised foil or are separated
with a cross-shaped plastic spacer to reduce crosstalk. High-frequency attenuation is
also better on the higher-numbered types which typically use slightly thicker wire.
Any of the varieties may also have an overall shield.
568B does seem to be the most widely used colour standard. A and B are NEVER intended
to be mixed on a single cable. I think the difference may have come about in an attempt
to make the colours compatible with certain standards for telephone wiring in buildings
which vary in different parts of the world.
Patch cables use stranded wire and are intended to be moved repeatedly without damage.
Non patch cables are single strand and are used for fixed infrastructure. RJ45 crimp-on
connectors are usually only suitable for stranded wire, but there are some that can be
used on both types.

Thanks. The stranded vs. solid makes sense. So I should definitely use the stranded patch cables.

It\'s funny that some people talk about the A vs. B thing as if there\'s some electrical difference. Such as claiming \"this one works, so I\'m sticking with it!\"

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[whit3rd]

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 1:13:43 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 2:24:29 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

All \'normal\' patch cables are 568B, so that\'s the only spec I\'d ever want to use.
568A on one end, and 568B on the other end, swaps send/receive pairs so you could
connect two hosts (but usually it\'s a mess if you connect that cable host-to-hub
with the old 10baseT or 100baseT units). 1000baseT is smart enough to work with a
variety of different pair swaps; POE, I\'m not sure of.

The early (10baseT and 100baseT and AUI and even AAUI) twisted-pair interfaces were send-pair/receive-pair
wired, and only a \'crossover\' cable allowed connecting hosts together. Every hub or switch
performed the crossover function internally, sometimes with a \'special\' switch or connector
for connecting to another hub/switch.

I\'m not clear on your preference of B over A. There\'s no electrical difference between A and B. It\'s just the color of the insulation inside the cable. Who cares???

I check my wiring by remembering orange-white/orange/green-white/blue/blue-white/green/brown-white/brown.
You can see these colors through the (clear) connector housing on the non-latch side.
It\'d be confusing (and horrifying, because it recalls the bad old days of CROSSOVER CABLE MADNESS)
to see 568A.

BTW, what\'s the difference between a \"patch\" cable and other Ethernet cables (not talking about crossover). Cablestogo indicates some cables are \"patch\" cables with other options not being related, such as \"snagless\", \"slim\", \"unbooted\", \"unshielded\". These other features are orthogonal to \"patch\" cables as far as I can tell. What\'s different about a not \"patch\" cable?

In-wall Ethernet wiring is solid wire, and patch cables are stranded wire. Stranded is more flexible, but harder
to get the plugs onto (the plugs use a \'corset\' to hold the wires, and it has to be inserted into the connector shell
without any wires coming loose before crimping. Mostly, people buy solid wire in bulk for installation
and field-termination (punchdown insulation displacement in sockets) but buy mass-produced
patch cables, in various colors, to plug in the flexible last-few-feet wire..

Some folk use the solid wire for patch cables; I\'d not recommend it.

> BTW, using 568A on one end and 568B on the other end, only swaps two pair of wires. The blue and the brown are still straight through. Are they not used in CAT5e?

They are used, all right; the blue pair can be used for a voice telephone, OR the blue and brown are used
for a second Ethernet (there are splitters available) if you have 10baseT or 100baseT only. Some
(presumably older, now out-of-fashion) POE wiring uses the blue and brown pairs for power only. The use of all
four pairs for a single network connection came with 1000baseT, which includes a good sense-the-connections
algorithm that can even unsnarl (some) bad wiring. On earlier Ethernet variants, those pairs are just spares.

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 5:33:26 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 1:13:43 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 2:24:29 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

All \'normal\' patch cables are 568B, so that\'s the only spec I\'d ever want to use.
568A on one end, and 568B on the other end, swaps send/receive pairs so you could
connect two hosts (but usually it\'s a mess if you connect that cable host-to-hub
with the old 10baseT or 100baseT units). 1000baseT is smart enough to work with a
variety of different pair swaps; POE, I\'m not sure of.

The early (10baseT and 100baseT and AUI and even AAUI) twisted-pair interfaces were send-pair/receive-pair
wired, and only a \'crossover\' cable allowed connecting hosts together.. Every hub or switch
performed the crossover function internally, sometimes with a \'special\' switch or connector
for connecting to another hub/switch.

I\'m not clear on your preference of B over A. There\'s no electrical difference between A and B. It\'s just the color of the insulation inside the cable. Who cares???
I check my wiring by remembering orange-white/orange/green-white/blue/blue-white/green/brown-white/brown.
You can see these colors through the (clear) connector housing on the non-latch side.
It\'d be confusing (and horrifying, because it recalls the bad old days of CROSSOVER CABLE MADNESS)
to see 568A.

What wiring are you having to check??? Don\'t you just plug in the cables and be done with it?

BTW, what\'s the difference between a \"patch\" cable and other Ethernet cables (not talking about crossover). Cablestogo indicates some cables are \"patch\" cables with other options not being related, such as \"snagless\", \"slim\", \"unbooted\", \"unshielded\". These other features are orthogonal to \"patch\" cables as far as I can tell. What\'s different about a not \"patch\" cable?
In-wall Ethernet wiring is solid wire, and patch cables are stranded wire.. Stranded is more flexible, but harder
to get the plugs onto (the plugs use a \'corset\' to hold the wires, and it has to be inserted into the connector shell
without any wires coming loose before crimping. Mostly, people buy solid wire in bulk for installation
and field-termination (punchdown insulation displacement in sockets) but buy mass-produced
patch cables, in various colors, to plug in the flexible last-few-feet wire.

Some folk use the solid wire for patch cables; I\'d not recommend it.

Yeah, someone explained that elsewhere, thanks.

BTW, using 568A on one end and 568B on the other end, only swaps two pair of wires. The blue and the brown are still straight through. Are they not used in CAT5e?
They are used, all right; the blue pair can be used for a voice telephone, OR the blue and brown are used
for a second Ethernet (there are splitters available) if you have 10baseT or 100baseT only. Some
(presumably older, now out-of-fashion) POE wiring uses the blue and brown pairs for power only. The use of all
four pairs for a single network connection came with 1000baseT, which includes a good sense-the-connections
algorithm that can even unsnarl (some) bad wiring. On earlier Ethernet variants, those pairs are just spares.

I think the CAT5e cables won\'t work for 1000baseT, even with all 8 wires populated, no?

It kinda annoys me that they didn\'t just run the pairs on adjacent pins. But now that I know, it won\'t be a problem.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John S]

On 11/4/2022 9:21 PM, Ricky wrote:

I was looking up the wiring diagrams for Ethernet cables and found TIA/EIA 568A and TIA/EIA 568B wiring diagrams. They seem to be wired the same, but for the colors used. They swap green and orange. At first I thought I was looking at a crossover cable, but no, they clearly say they should be connected the same at each end. One uses orange and green pairs, while the other uses green and orange pairs for half the signals.

This reminds me of the Star Trek episode where the Black/White guy was fighting the White/Black guy.

Anyone know what\'s going on with TIA/EIA 568 A vs. B?

https://www.omnisecu.com/basic-networking/tia-eia-568-standards.php

 

[Don Y]

On 11/4/2022 11:24 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> All \'normal\' patch cables are 568B, so that\'s the only spec I\'d ever want to use.

+42

You also want to be sure to be buying connector terminations that carry the
matching color code, lest folks get even MORE confused.

> POE, I\'m not sure of.

When power is delivered over the data pairs (Orange/Green), polarity is
important. So, you want to know whether you\'ve adopted 568A or B.
Unless you are always probing an 8P8C by pin number (and never actual
conductors).

The \"spare pairs\" (Blue/Brown) feed diode bridges so don\'t really care about
polarity (unless you\'re a stickler for standards).

But, 8P8C\'s are shit connectors. Even shrouded, the damn latches seem
to find a way to snap off (\"plastic fatigue\"?)

And, its too easy to encounter something with an 8P8C (or 4P4C, 6P6C) that
will mechanically mate yet \"misbehave\" electrically (to the detriment of
one or the other halves of the mated circuit -- witness the pains
PoE goes to to safeguard against a *phone* being plugged into an 8P8C
PoE drop!)

 

[Don Y]

On 11/5/2022 2:15 AM, John Walliker wrote:

High-frequency attenuation is
also better on the higher-numbered types which typically use slightly thicker wire.

That\'s an understatement! Running CAT6 is tedious compared to CAT5.
It\'s far less flexible and has a larger bend radius.

It\'s the modern day equivalent of orange hose, in that sense! :-/

 

[John Walliker]

On Saturday, 5 November 2022 at 10:44:41 UTC, Don Y wrote:

On 11/5/2022 2:15 AM, John Walliker wrote:

High-frequency attenuation is
also better on the higher-numbered types which typically use slightly thicker wire.
That\'s an understatement! Running CAT6 is tedious compared to CAT5.
It\'s far less flexible and has a larger bend radius.

It\'s the modern day equivalent of orange hose, in that sense! :-/

I meant that the copper conductors are normally slightly thicker. CAT6 and 6A seem
to use 23AWG whereas CAT5e often uses 24AWG. I agree that the overall cable
diameter is much greater, especially for those variants with the cross-shaped spacer
which is a real pain.
My own preference is to use either CAT5e or if higher performance is needed a CAT6A
variant with shielding on each pair but no cross-shaped spacer or overall shield. That gives
the minimum stiffness while getting good performance for 10Gbit/s ethernet.

The thing to avoid at all costs is copper clad aluminium which has higher dc resistance
which is bad for PoE, can corrode much faster in humid environments and is more likely
to break when it is being terminated.

John

 

[Don Y]

On 11/5/2022 4:40 AM, John Walliker wrote:

On Saturday, 5 November 2022 at 10:44:41 UTC, Don Y wrote:
On 11/5/2022 2:15 AM, John Walliker wrote:

High-frequency attenuation is
also better on the higher-numbered types which typically use slightly thicker wire.
That\'s an understatement! Running CAT6 is tedious compared to CAT5.
It\'s far less flexible and has a larger bend radius.

It\'s the modern day equivalent of orange hose, in that sense! :-/

I meant that the copper conductors are normally slightly thicker. CAT6 and 6A seem
to use 23AWG whereas CAT5e often uses 24AWG. I agree that the overall cable
diameter is much greater, especially for those variants with the cross-shaped spacer
which is a real pain.

Yup. It is a \"surprise\" when you are used to CAT5!

My own preference is to use either CAT5e or if higher performance is needed a CAT6A
variant with shielding on each pair but no cross-shaped spacer or overall shield. That gives
the minimum stiffness while getting good performance for 10Gbit/s ethernet.

I use CAT5 everywhere and don\'t expect anything faster then Gbe.
That\'s fast enough for video or a 10K disk, sustained.

Sometimes optical drops to connect, e.g., a SAN to a server.
Or, multiple ethernet drops, aggregated.

The thing to avoid at all costs is copper clad aluminium which has higher dc resistance
which is bad for PoE, can corrode much faster in humid environments and is more likely
to break when it is being terminated.

I find CAT6 really hard to terminate inside a Jbox due to the larger
bend radius. Almost as bad as RG6 in that regard.

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 18:21:59 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

I was looking up the wiring diagrams for Ethernet cables and found TIA/EIA 568A and TIA/EIA 568B wiring diagrams. They seem to be wired the same, but for the colors used. They swap green and orange. At first I thought I was looking at a crossover cable, but no, they clearly say they should be connected the same at each end. One uses orange and green pairs, while the other uses green and orange pairs for half the signals.

This reminds me of the Star Trek episode where the Black/White guy was fighting the White/Black guy.

Anyone know what\'s going on with TIA/EIA 568 A vs. B?

Well, one can always read the cited standard:

..<http://www.ense.be/PDF/2030.pdf>

..<https://innovave.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/tia-569-c.pdf>

And so on. It appears that the A, B, and now C is simply a revision.

Joe Gwinn

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:42:11 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

On 11/4/2022 11:24 PM, whit3rd wrote:
All \'normal\' patch cables are 568B, so that\'s the only spec I\'d ever want to use.
+42

You also want to be sure to be buying connector terminations that carry the
matching color code, lest folks get even MORE confused.

Confused about what??? The color of the wires in the cable are totally irrelevant to anything done using cables with RJ-45 connectors on each end. What is important is that the cable be straight through if that\'s what you need, or crossover, if that\'s what you need. I will never see the colors in the cables.

POE, I\'m not sure of.
When power is delivered over the data pairs (Orange/Green), polarity is
important. So, you want to know whether you\'ve adopted 568A or B.
Unless you are always probing an 8P8C by pin number (and never actual
conductors).

Again, the only difference is the color of the wires in the cables. You can use either type of cable and they are identically the same unless you cut one open and look at the colors.

The \"spare pairs\" (Blue/Brown) feed diode bridges so don\'t really care about
polarity (unless you\'re a stickler for standards).

But, 8P8C\'s are shit connectors. Even shrouded, the damn latches seem
to find a way to snap off (\"plastic fatigue\"?)

Who cares? The vast majority of my uses are static. It was plugged in five years ago and is still working. Or in this case, the 6 inch cable will be plugged and unplugged once a day. Being so short, there\'s little chance of a tangle which is how the latches get damaged.

And, its too easy to encounter something with an 8P8C (or 4P4C, 6P6C) that
will mechanically mate yet \"misbehave\" electrically (to the detriment of
one or the other halves of the mated circuit -- witness the pains
PoE goes to to safeguard against a *phone* being plugged into an 8P8C
PoE drop!)

Again,, not a concern, since this will only be used by the technicians who have been instructed in the operation of the unit. No phone jacks in the lab anyway.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 11:23:03 AM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 18:21:59 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was looking up the wiring diagrams for Ethernet cables and found TIA/EIA 568A and TIA/EIA 568B wiring diagrams. They seem to be wired the same, but for the colors used. They swap green and orange. At first I thought I was looking at a crossover cable, but no, they clearly say they should be connected the same at each end. One uses orange and green pairs, while the other uses green and orange pairs for half the signals.

This reminds me of the Star Trek episode where the Black/White guy was fighting the White/Black guy.

Anyone know what\'s going on with TIA/EIA 568 A vs. B?
Well, one can always read the cited standard:

.<http://www.ense.be/PDF/2030.pdf

.<https://innovave.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/tia-569-c.pdf

And so on. It appears that the A, B, and now C is simply a revision.

Are you confusing 569 with 568?

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Don Y]

On 11/5/2022 5:28 AM, Don Y wrote:

On 11/5/2022 4:40 AM, John Walliker wrote:
On Saturday, 5 November 2022 at 10:44:41 UTC, Don Y wrote:
On 11/5/2022 2:15 AM, John Walliker wrote:

High-frequency attenuation is
also better on the higher-numbered types which typically use slightly
thicker wire.
That\'s an understatement! Running CAT6 is tedious compared to CAT5.
It\'s far less flexible and has a larger bend radius.

It\'s the modern day equivalent of orange hose, in that sense! :-/

I meant that the copper conductors are normally slightly thicker. CAT6 and 6A
seem
to use 23AWG whereas CAT5e often uses 24AWG.  I agree that the overall cable
diameter is much greater, especially for those variants with the cross-shaped
spacer
which is a real pain.

Yup.  It is a \"surprise\" when you are used to CAT5!

And you usually need different connector terminations for CAT6;
the ones I\'ve seen have longer (deeper) keystones to accommodate the
stiffer wire. I\'ve not explored whether or not a different
tool is required for installation. CAT5 is relatively easy to
terminate (without untwisting long lengths) to these and
clamp in place.

As an aside, note that most keystones are color coded for 568B
(though some have dual color-coding -- which just makes it more
confusing on such a tiny surface). Patch panels often have both
color codes (more space to annotate them) but I\'ve seen many where
the punchdowns bore the coloring (as if painted on) so effectively
only 568B.

[When I wired the house (~10 years ago), ANSI was recommending
568A for USOC compatibility. I opted for 568B as I think of the
fabric as data-oriented instead of \"comms\". Hopefully, the strict
adherence to the color coding on the keystones and panel punchdowns
will make it easy for future service folks to sort out what was done.
If \"wire was just wire\", this wouldn\'t be necessary.]

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Sat, 5 Nov 2022 09:33:23 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 11:23:03 AM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 18:21:59 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was looking up the wiring diagrams for Ethernet cables and found TIA/EIA 568A and TIA/EIA 568B wiring diagrams. They seem to be wired the same, but for the colors used. They swap green and orange. At first I thought I was looking at a crossover cable, but no, they clearly say they should be connected the same at each end. One uses orange and green pairs, while the other uses green and orange pairs for half the signals.

This reminds me of the Star Trek episode where the Black/White guy was fighting the White/Black guy.

Anyone know what\'s going on with TIA/EIA 568 A vs. B?
Well, one can always read the cited standard:

.<http://www.ense.be/PDF/2030.pdf

.<https://innovave.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/tia-569-c.pdf

And so on. It appears that the A, B, and now C is simply a revision.

Are you confusing 569 with 568?

Ahh, yes. But the A, B, C pattern endures.

Anyway:

..<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI/TIA-568>

..<https://www.csd.uoc.gr/~hy435/material/TIA-EIA-568-B.2.pdf>

..<http://innovave.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/TIA-568-C.0.pdf>


Joe Gwinn

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:10:20 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Sat, 5 Nov 2022 09:33:23 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 11:23:03 AM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 18:21:59 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was looking up the wiring diagrams for Ethernet cables and found TIA/EIA 568A and TIA/EIA 568B wiring diagrams. They seem to be wired the same, but for the colors used. They swap green and orange. At first I thought I was looking at a crossover cable, but no, they clearly say they should be connected the same at each end. One uses orange and green pairs, while the other uses green and orange pairs for half the signals.

This reminds me of the Star Trek episode where the Black/White guy was fighting the White/Black guy.

Anyone know what\'s going on with TIA/EIA 568 A vs. B?
Well, one can always read the cited standard:

.<http://www.ense.be/PDF/2030.pdf

.<https://innovave.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/tia-569-c.pdf

And so on. It appears that the A, B, and now C is simply a revision.

Are you confusing 569 with 568?
Ahh, yes. But the A, B, C pattern endures.

Anyway:

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI/TIA-568

.<https://www.csd.uoc.gr/~hy435/material/TIA-EIA-568-B.2.pdf

.<http://innovave.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/TIA-568-C.0.pdf

You are confusing specification revisions indicator letters, with \"pin and pair assignments\" known as T568A and T568B. They have nothing to do with one another. The two pin/pair assignments (T568A and T568B) have to do with where circuit pairs 2 and 3 are on the connector. T568A and T568B reverse them. But this is only a matter of wire color inside the cable, so it has zero affect on the electrical performance. If you aren\'t making the cables, you have no need to know, or care about those colors.

Search your documents for T568A and T568B. Also, the spec would appear to be up to D, according to Wikipedia. It would seem TIA-568-B is very different from T568B.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Sat, 5 Nov 2022 13:10:45 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:10:20 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sat, 5 Nov 2022 09:33:23 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 11:23:03 AM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 18:21:59 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was looking up the wiring diagrams for Ethernet cables and found TIA/EIA 568A and TIA/EIA 568B wiring diagrams. They seem to be wired the same, but for the colors used. They swap green and orange. At first I thought I was looking at a crossover cable, but no, they clearly say they should be connected the same at each end. One uses orange and green pairs, while the other uses green and orange pairs for half the signals.

This reminds me of the Star Trek episode where the Black/White guy was fighting the White/Black guy.

Anyone know what\'s going on with TIA/EIA 568 A vs. B?
Well, one can always read the cited standard:

.<http://www.ense.be/PDF/2030.pdf

.<https://innovave.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/tia-569-c.pdf

And so on. It appears that the A, B, and now C is simply a revision.

Are you confusing 569 with 568?
Ahh, yes. But the A, B, C pattern endures.

Anyway:

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI/TIA-568

.<https://www.csd.uoc.gr/~hy435/material/TIA-EIA-568-B.2.pdf

.<http://innovave.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/TIA-568-C.0.pdf

You are confusing specification revisions indicator letters, with \"pin and pair assignments\" known as T568A and T568B. They have nothing to do with one another. The two pin/pair assignments (T568A and T568B) have to do with where circuit pairs 2 and 3 are on the connector. T568A and T568B reverse them. But this is only a matter of wire color inside the cable, so it has zero affect on the electrical performance. If you aren\'t making the cables, you have no need to know, or care about those colors.

Search your documents for T568A and T568B. Also, the spec would appear to be up to D, according to Wikipedia. It would seem TIA-568-B is very different from T568B.

I have no idea if that\'s right or not, but you are on the correct path
to nail this issue down. Keep us posted.

Joe Gwinn

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:28:09 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Sat, 5 Nov 2022 13:10:45 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:10:20 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sat, 5 Nov 2022 09:33:23 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 11:23:03 AM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 18:21:59 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was looking up the wiring diagrams for Ethernet cables and found TIA/EIA 568A and TIA/EIA 568B wiring diagrams. They seem to be wired the same, but for the colors used. They swap green and orange. At first I thought I was looking at a crossover cable, but no, they clearly say they should be connected the same at each end. One uses orange and green pairs, while the other uses green and orange pairs for half the signals.

This reminds me of the Star Trek episode where the Black/White guy was fighting the White/Black guy.

Anyone know what\'s going on with TIA/EIA 568 A vs. B?
Well, one can always read the cited standard:

.<http://www.ense.be/PDF/2030.pdf

.<https://innovave.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/tia-569-c.pdf

And so on. It appears that the A, B, and now C is simply a revision..

Are you confusing 569 with 568?
Ahh, yes. But the A, B, C pattern endures.

Anyway:

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI/TIA-568

.<https://www.csd.uoc.gr/~hy435/material/TIA-EIA-568-B.2.pdf

.<http://innovave.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/TIA-568-C.0.pdf

You are confusing specification revisions indicator letters, with \"pin and pair assignments\" known as T568A and T568B. They have nothing to do with one another. The two pin/pair assignments (T568A and T568B) have to do with where circuit pairs 2 and 3 are on the connector. T568A and T568B reverse them. But this is only a matter of wire color inside the cable, so it has zero affect on the electrical performance. If you aren\'t making the cables, you have no need to know, or care about those colors.

Search your documents for T568A and T568B. Also, the spec would appear to be up to D, according to Wikipedia. It would seem TIA-568-B is very different from T568B.
I have no idea if that\'s right or not, but you are on the correct path
to nail this issue down. Keep us posted.

It\'s in the documents you provided. So it\'s done. You are officially posted.

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209