C
Chris
Guest
Nowadays it is possible to make PCB with software so what is the purpose or objective to make Manhattan style PCB. Thanks in advance.
A
asdf
Guest
On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 07:08:40 -0800, Chris wrote:
Saving money and time. A decent machine for engraving PCBs
is like 100 times more expensive than the tools needed to
build Manhattan style circuits. And several time slower
than one person doing them if we consider the time required
designing the circuit with software.
Of course we're not talking about mass production.
Saving money and time. A decent machine for engraving PCBs
is like 100 times more expensive than the tools needed to
build Manhattan style circuits. And several time slower
than one person doing them if we consider the time required
designing the circuit with software.
Of course we're not talking about mass production.
K
Kaz Kylheku
Guest
On 2016-01-05, Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote:
For an even faster turnaround time, I can whip up a PCB at home:
transfer a laser-printed artwork onto copper with a clothing iron,
etch, drill, solder. Counting from the time you send to the printer,
you can have it it ready for drilling within 15 minutes.
Great for anything simple, in particular.
Example:
http://www.kylheku.com/lurker/message/20131110.182409.fc0bf143.en.html
For an even faster turnaround time, I can whip up a PCB at home:
transfer a laser-printed artwork onto copper with a clothing iron,
etch, drill, solder. Counting from the time you send to the printer,
you can have it it ready for drilling within 15 minutes.
Great for anything simple, in particular.
Example:
http://www.kylheku.com/lurker/message/20131110.182409.fc0bf143.en.html
T
Tim Wescott
Guest
On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 16:33:04 +0000, asdf wrote:
I find that it takes me about the same amount of work to whip out a
prototype PCB on KiCad, send it off for fab, and build it up as it does
to build something "Manhattan style".
If I can tolerate the wait for the bare board to come back from OshPark,
that's almost always how I do it these days.
--
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com
I find that it takes me about the same amount of work to whip out a
prototype PCB on KiCad, send it off for fab, and build it up as it does
to build something "Manhattan style".
If I can tolerate the wait for the bare board to come back from OshPark,
that's almost always how I do it these days.
--
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com
M
Michael Black
Guest
On Tue, 5 Jan 2016, Chris wrote:
for ICs aren't so great for analog or especially radio circuitry. With
"Manhattan", you have a good ground area, and it's easy to change things.
You can always repackage later, or just put the "messy" board in an
enclosure. With radio circuitry, you want that good ground, and may not
want traces going all over the place, you want as short leads as possible,
much easier with the ground all over the place and building over it. It's
also cheap. Before it upgraded itself, the local "surplus" place was a
great source of blank copper circuit board, nice and cheap. But some of
it had holes in it, so making etched boards wasn't going to work, but the
holes didn't get in the way of soldering ground leads to the board.
Circuit board layout was never that complicated, I used to do it with a
pen or tape, just making choices about layout as I went. But you have to
get the layuout out of the computer and onto the board, and then etch the
board. These are extra steps. The "Maker" world has the output of the
layout software sent somewhere that applies the resist in some way and
etches the board, but that takes some time, and actually costs money, even
if it's now a lot cheaper than once upon a time.
Michael
It's a great breadboarding technique. Those white breadboards intended
for ICs aren't so great for analog or especially radio circuitry. With
"Manhattan", you have a good ground area, and it's easy to change things.
You can always repackage later, or just put the "messy" board in an
enclosure. With radio circuitry, you want that good ground, and may not
want traces going all over the place, you want as short leads as possible,
much easier with the ground all over the place and building over it. It's
also cheap. Before it upgraded itself, the local "surplus" place was a
great source of blank copper circuit board, nice and cheap. But some of
it had holes in it, so making etched boards wasn't going to work, but the
holes didn't get in the way of soldering ground leads to the board.
Circuit board layout was never that complicated, I used to do it with a
pen or tape, just making choices about layout as I went. But you have to
get the layuout out of the computer and onto the board, and then etch the
board. These are extra steps. The "Maker" world has the output of the
layout software sent somewhere that applies the resist in some way and
etches the board, but that takes some time, and actually costs money, even
if it's now a lot cheaper than once upon a time.
Michael
J
Jim Thompson
Guest
On Tue, 5 Jan 2016 19:08:54 +0000 (UTC), Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com>
wrote:
[snip]
What process and materials are you using?
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice
480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
wrote:
[snip]
What process and materials are you using?
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice
480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat || E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
K
Kaz Kylheku
Guest
On 2016-01-05, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
The above was produced with a laser print job on some glossy brochure
paper, transferred to the one-sided copper-clad using a clothing iron.
The tiny circuit board was etched in a small quantity of ferric
chloride, using the plastic cap from a 1.89 bottle of V8 juice as the
bath container.
Toner was removed from the copper using acetone. (Isopropanol doesn't
cut through it.)
Then holes were drilled by hand.
(Usually I tranfer the silk artwork also; I didn't do it this time.
When I do, I like to spray some clear coat over it as a fixative to make
it more durable.)
The design was made using FreePCB, and rendered to a PNG file using the
GerberRender.EXE.
The above was produced with a laser print job on some glossy brochure
paper, transferred to the one-sided copper-clad using a clothing iron.
The tiny circuit board was etched in a small quantity of ferric
chloride, using the plastic cap from a 1.89 bottle of V8 juice as the
bath container.
Toner was removed from the copper using acetone. (Isopropanol doesn't
cut through it.)
Then holes were drilled by hand.
(Usually I tranfer the silk artwork also; I didn't do it this time.
When I do, I like to spray some clear coat over it as a fixative to make
it more durable.)
The design was made using FreePCB, and rendered to a PNG file using the
GerberRender.EXE.
T
Tim Wescott
Guest
On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 19:08:54 +0000, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
Kinda hard for 8mil trace-to-trace with plated through holes, though.
How does it work for four layer?
--
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com
Kinda hard for 8mil trace-to-trace with plated through holes, though.
How does it work for four layer?
--
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Tue, 5 Jan 2016 16:33:04 +0000 (UTC), asdf <asdf@nospam.com> wrote:
Get a Dremel!
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Protos/DCBB_2.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Protos/Z338_PCB.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Protos/Z356_SN2.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Protos/Z384_1.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Protos/BB_fast.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Protos/Burr_1.JPG
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
lunatic fringe electronics
Get a Dremel!
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Protos/DCBB_2.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Protos/Z338_PCB.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Protos/Z356_SN2.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Protos/Z384_1.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Protos/BB_fast.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Protos/Burr_1.JPG
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
lunatic fringe electronics