The Problem With most VHDL books

[Bar Nash]

Hi all

The problem with most VHDL books is that they concentrate on coding , that
is translating digital blocks into VHDL .

They almost never explain in detail the stages involved in turning the idea
into hardware : SYSTEM > RTL > GATE LEVEL > NETLIST ...ASIC
so one new to the subject has to dig this info from newsgroups and search
engines and to build the whole puzzle little by little .

It will be a great idea to start a website that concentrates on this subject
alone.

Many thanks to those who took time to answer my questions .

EC

 

[Eric Smith]

Bar Nash wrote:

The problem with most VHDL books is that they concentrate on coding , that
is translating digital blocks into VHDL .

They almost never explain in detail the stages involved in turning the idea
into hardware : SYSTEM > RTL > GATE LEVEL > NETLIST ...ASIC

It's no surprise that most VHDL books don't describe that, because VHDL
is only a portion of the design flow. A book on VHDL describes the portion
of the design flow that is specifically VHDL.

If you want to know how to translate RTL to gates/netlists, the
documentation on the tools covers what you need to do, and most of the
tool vendors provide examples and/or tutorials. If you want to
know how that process actually works, there are books on those subjects.

 

[Bar Nash]

Thanks
ec

"Eric Smith" <eric@brouhaha.com> ???
??????:m37i8kq6g1.fsf@donnybrook.brouhaha.com...

Bar Nash wrote:
The problem with most VHDL books is that they concentrate on coding ,
that
is translating digital blocks into VHDL .

They almost never explain in detail the stages involved in turning the
idea
into hardware : SYSTEM > RTL > GATE LEVEL > NETLIST ...ASIC

It's no surprise that most VHDL books don't describe that, because VHDL
is only a portion of the design flow. A book on VHDL describes the
portion
of the design flow that is specifically VHDL.

If you want to know how to translate RTL to gates/netlists, the
documentation on the tools covers what you need to do, and most of the
tool vendors provide examples and/or tutorials. If you want to
know how that process actually works, there are books on those subjects.

 

[Peter]

If you want to know how to translate RTL to gates/netlists, the
documentation on the tools covers what you need to do, and most of the
tool vendors provide examples and/or tutorials.  If you want to
know how that process actually works, there are books on those subjects.

Perhaps the most interesting step is SYSTEM -> RTL and I am not aware
of any book
about that. Is it even possible to write a book about that subject?
Perhaps learn by doing is the only way?

/Peter

 

[Mike Treseler]

Bar Nash wrote:

The problem with most VHDL books is that they concentrate on coding , that
is translating digital blocks into VHDL .

I agree that most vhdl texts spend too
much time on structural coding in
a schematic/netlist style.
The book may show how to infer a register or
counter, but how to infer a full IP block
is left to the student.

Many designers work interactively with a simulator
to fill out the 'coding' that infers
the exact hardware block required.
A good how-to book on writing synthesis code
this way may never be written because,
1. Writing code pays better than writing a book.
2. The design process varies with tools,
target products, and local customs.
3. The process varies with time as do the parameters above.

They almost never explain in detail the stages involved in turning the idea
into hardware : SYSTEM > RTL > GATE LEVEL > NETLIST ...ASIC
so one new to the subject has to dig this info from newsgroups and search
engines and to build the whole puzzle little by little .

There is a good reason for this.
Once I have working source code, the rest of this process
is mostly automatic. I may have to fiddle
with the code to fit a device or to make Fmax,
but most of the intellectual work is done.

-- Mike Treseler

 

[Tricky]

On 8 Oct, 11:46, Peter <peter.hermans...@sts.saab.se> wrote:

If you want to know how to translate RTL to gates/netlists, the
documentation on the tools covers what you need to do, and most of the
tool vendors provide examples and/or tutorials.  If you want to
know how that process actually works, there are books on those subjects..

Perhaps the most interesting step is SYSTEM -> RTL and I am not aware
of any book
about that. Is it even possible to write a book about that subject?
Perhaps learn by doing is the only way?

/Peter

I think this step is called an electronic engineering degree or
similar. There are plenty of books involved in that.

 

[Peter]

Perhaps learn by doing is the only way?

/Peter

I think this step is called an electronic engineering degree or
similar. There are plenty of books involved in that.

Yes, but I dont think you are able to accomplish very much with your
brand new diploma in electronic engineering. You need years of
experience before you become skilled. I guess that a book that
concentrates on real-life problems and teaches how to think would be
most welcome by students.

/Peter