The downside to internet shopping

[keithr]

Just before Xmas I ordered some stuff from a reputable *Australian*
retailer. I usually use Paypal for online purchases as it means that my
details (other than address of course) do not go near the actual seller.
In this case though, they only accepted credit cards, but, as they were
local, well known in their field, and used SSL, I used my Visa card.

Next day I got a call from ANZ Visa security wanting to know whether I
had ordered $250 of perfume from Hong Kong and $150 of cigars from the
US. I'm glad that their algorithms were on the ball, the transactions
have been cancelled as has the card.

I don't suspect the retailer, but when I called them to report that
their site may have been compromised, they didn't seem unduly bothered.

This is the only time that I have ever had any problems, but it shows
that the pirates are out there.

 

[Don McKenzie]

On 4/01/2011 5:25 PM, keithr wrote:

Just before Xmas I ordered some stuff from a reputable *Australian* retailer. I usually use Paypal for online purchases
as it means that my details (other than address of course) do not go near the actual seller. In this case though, they
only accepted credit cards, but, as they were local, well known in their field, and used SSL, I used my Visa card.

Next day I got a call from ANZ Visa security wanting to know whether I had ordered $250 of perfume from Hong Kong and
$150 of cigars from the US. I'm glad that their algorithms were on the ball, the transactions have been cancelled as has
the card.

I don't suspect the retailer, but when I called them to report that their site may have been compromised, they didn't
seem unduly bothered.

This is the only time that I have ever had any problems, but it shows that the pirates are out there.

My Dontronics merchant account is with the CBA bank, and the transaction is always between the customer and the CBA bank
for credit card sales.

We don't see the customers credit card numbers. In fact the CBA insist that all transactions are done this way. The
merchant doesn't get involved in obtaining or recording numbers at all. Any merchant that collects numbers these days is
doing it wrong, and asking for trouble.

I'm surprised any Australian bank would still allow this method. Perhaps they aren't aware that the merchant is
collecting numbers, if this is the case.

It is really a matter of the CC number being stolen from the bank's data base, or the retailer's data base. I would be
asking some serious questions.

Recently added security for credit card transactions on the internet:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visa and MasterCard have a security measure that you need to follow up with your Bank to get the password. It is called
"Verify By Visa" and "SecureCode" respectively.
To read more about this security measure go to:
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/faqs-ordering-questions.html#vbv

Cheers Don...



--
Don McKenzie

Site Map: http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.dontronics.com/email
Web Camera Page: http://www.dontronics.com/webcam
No More Damn Spam: http://www.dontronics.com/spam



These products will reduce in price by 5% every month:
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/minus-5-every-month.html

 

In aus.computers keithr <keith@nowhere.com.au> wrote:
....

This is the only time that I have ever had any problems, but it shows
that the pirates are out there.

One reason to keep the credit card rather than convert to debit cards.
At least the credit card covers losses if you report bogus transactions.

The only fraud I came across happened a couple years back.
I'd done business with a small outfit in Montreal, Canada,
and all had gone well.

But a few months later I bought something from them again.
After about 1 wk with no word about the order they claimed my address
"wasn't verified" and I had to send them faxes of old bills and
bank transactions.

I went over the obvious reasons why their request wouldn't achieve
anything about verifying my address -- bits of paper can be created
easy as anything. In any case, the "verified" part of the problem
was associated with any address outside the US -- even their own
address as it turned out was marked "unverified" by Paypal.

Anyway... they held my payment to random for several weeks,
refusing to give in. The initial story my order would "go faster"
if I supplied the docs moved on to "the papers are required
for the order to go through" and then to "this has always has been
company policy".

Anyway, after I raised a complaint with Paypal (as usual, no help
at all) the credit card company (yes, they were interested and wanted
all details, but I never heard back from them), my bank (where it promptly
went into the bitbucket) and the better business bureau in Monreal
(similar response to talking to the business) they cancelled the order without
notice, meaning I lost a couple hundred AUD because of currency fluctionations
in the intervening 2-3 months.

A few weeks after this my card was seen paying student fees
and paying for cable TV in suburban Montreal -- by co-incidence
about 10 km from the registered address of the business.

Even there, I lost out a little. While the actual amount
was corrected credited back, my bank (NAB) insisted I had to pay the
interest and various fees (international purchase, etc) on it.
Paypal also took a non-refundable nibble for converting $A->$C and back again.

Some months later (after nothing seemed to happen about getting
anything back for all the fees and losses on the cancelled
transaction) I was contacted by someone at the business in Canada who
identified themselves as some kind of "supervisor" and he was
(as in your case) not at all fussed about the actual problems.
Just re-emphasised that everthing they had done, including the
primitive phishing attempt, was their standard business practice.

--

My sig lines fall into 2 broad categories: either wise or silly.
I rely on the reader understanding which is which.
Congratulations. You must be a very special boy or girl.

-- tg <tgdenning@earthlink.net>, 1 Dec 2010 12:35:45 PST

 

[Rod Speed]

kym@kymhorseshit.com wrote:

keithr <keith@nowhere.com.au> wrote

This is the only time that I have ever had any problems,
but it shows that the pirates are out there.

One reason to keep the credit card rather than convert to debit cards.
At least the credit card covers losses if you report bogus transactions.

So do the debit cards.

The only fraud I came across happened a couple years back.
I'd done business with a small outfit in Montreal, Canada,
and all had gone well.

But a few months later I bought something from them again.
After about 1 wk with no word about the order they claimed
my address "wasn't verified" and I had to send them faxes
of old bills and bank transactions.

I went over the obvious reasons why their request wouldn't achieve
anything about verifying my address -- bits of paper can be created
easy as anything. In any case, the "verified" part of the problem
was associated with any address outside the US -- even their own
address as it turned out was marked "unverified" by Paypal.

Anyway... they held my payment to random for several weeks,
refusing to give in. The initial story my order would "go faster"
if I supplied the docs moved on to "the papers are required
for the order to go through" and then to "this has always has been
company policy".

Anyway, after I raised a complaint with Paypal (as usual, no help
at all) the credit card company (yes, they were interested and wanted
all details, but I never heard back from them), my bank (where it
promptly went into the bitbucket) and the better business bureau in
Monreal (similar response to talking to the business) they cancelled
the order without notice, meaning I lost a couple hundred AUD
because of currency fluctionations in the intervening 2-3 months.

A few weeks after this my card was seen paying student fees
and paying for cable TV in suburban Montreal -- by co-incidence
about 10 km from the registered address of the business.

Even there, I lost out a little. While the actual amount was
corrected credited back, my bank (NAB) insisted I had to pay
the interest and various fees (international purchase, etc) on it.
Paypal also took a non-refundable nibble for converting $A->$C and back again.

Some months later (after nothing seemed to happen about getting
anything back for all the fees and losses on the cancelled
transaction) I was contacted by someone at the business in Canada who
identified themselves as some kind of "supervisor" and he was
(as in your case) not at all fussed about the actual problems.
Just re-emphasised that everthing they had done, including the
primitive phishing attempt, was their standard business practice.

 

[atec77]

On 4/01/2011 4:25 PM, keithr wrote:

Just before Xmas I ordered some stuff from a reputable *Australian*
retailer. I usually use Paypal for online purchases as it means that my
details (other than address of course) do not go near the actual seller.
In this case though, they only accepted credit cards, but, as they were
local, well known in their field, and used SSL, I used my Visa card.

Next day I got a call from ANZ Visa security wanting to know whether I
had ordered $250 of perfume from Hong Kong and $150 of cigars from the
US. I'm glad that their algorithms were on the ball, the transactions
have been cancelled as has the card.

I don't suspect the retailer, but when I called them to report that
their site may have been compromised, they didn't seem unduly bothered.

This is the only time that I have ever had any problems, but it shows
that the pirates are out there.
Which industry are the involved with and did the verisign show up ?

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

 

[idgat]

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 17:25:51 +1100, keithr <keith@nowhere.com.au>
wrote:

This is the only time that I have ever had any problems, but it shows
that the pirates are out there.

Or how some people don't check their computers for keylogger software
......
--
idgat
Compuglobalhypermeganet Inc.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 4/01/2011 6:10 PM, kym@kymhorsell.com wrote:

Even there, I lost out a little. While the actual amount
was corrected credited back, my bank (NAB) insisted I had to pay the
interest and various fees (international purchase, etc) on it.
Paypal also took a non-refundable nibble for converting $A->$C and back again.

You should have told them both to go play in the traffic. Credit card
fraud is perpetrated against the card issuer, not the card holder. You
were not liable for any part of the cost.

And remember, a credit card account is merely the card issuer's view
about how much you owe. You don't have to agree with their view.

Sylvia.

 

[keithr]

On 4/01/2011 10:03 PM, idgat wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 17:25:51 +1100, keithr<keith@nowhere.com.au
wrote:

This is the only time that I have ever had any problems, but it shows
that the pirates are out there.

Or how some people don't check their computers for keylogger software
.....
--
idgat
Compuglobalhypermeganet Inc.

Maybe they don't but I do.

 

[keithr]

On 4/01/2011 5:54 PM, Don McKenzie wrote:

On 4/01/2011 5:25 PM, keithr wrote:
Just before Xmas I ordered some stuff from a reputable *Australian*
retailer. I usually use Paypal for online purchases
as it means that my details (other than address of course) do not go
near the actual seller. In this case though, they
only accepted credit cards, but, as they were local, well known in
their field, and used SSL, I used my Visa card.

Next day I got a call from ANZ Visa security wanting to know whether I
had ordered $250 of perfume from Hong Kong and
$150 of cigars from the US. I'm glad that their algorithms were on the
ball, the transactions have been cancelled as has
the card.

I don't suspect the retailer, but when I called them to report that
their site may have been compromised, they didn't
seem unduly bothered.

This is the only time that I have ever had any problems, but it shows
that the pirates are out there.

My Dontronics merchant account is with the CBA bank, and the transaction
is always between the customer and the CBA bank for credit card sales.

We don't see the customers credit card numbers. In fact the CBA insist
that all transactions are done this way. The merchant doesn't get
involved in obtaining or recording numbers at all. Any merchant that
collects numbers these days is doing it wrong, and asking for trouble.

In this case, the CC number and the security number had to be entered
into the checkout form. Whether this data stayed on the merchant's
system I don't know, but it at least passed through it. With Paypal you
are redirected to Paypal's own site and the data does not pass through
the merchant site at all. I have never seen a checkout where I was
redirected to a bank site to enter my CC details.

I'm surprised any Australian bank would still allow this method. Perhaps
they aren't aware that the merchant is collecting numbers, if this is
the case.

It is really a matter of the CC number being stolen from the bank's data
base, or the retailer's data base. I would be asking some serious
questions.

Recently added security for credit card transactions on the internet:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visa and MasterCard have a security measure that you need to follow up
with your Bank to get the password. It is called "Verify By Visa" and
"SecureCode" respectively.
To read more about this security measure go to:
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/faqs-ordering-questions.html#vbv

Cheers Don...

I'll check into that.

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 01/05/11 21:13, keithr wrote:

On 4/01/2011 5:54 PM, Don McKenzie wrote:
We don't see the customers credit card numbers. In fact the CBA insist
In this case, the CC number and the security number had to be entered
into the checkout form. Whether this data stayed on the merchant's
system I don't know, but it at least passed through it.

It doesn't matter what site served up the form for you to fill, what
matters is where the form is submitted to. Did you check that (in the
HTML source code, look at the form tag)?

Clifford Heath.

 

[Don McKenzie]

On 5/01/2011 9:13 PM, keithr wrote:

On 4/01/2011 5:54 PM, Don McKenzie wrote:

We don't see the customers credit card numbers. In fact the CBA insist
that all transactions are done this way. The merchant doesn't get
involved in obtaining or recording numbers at all. Any merchant that
collects numbers these days is doing it wrong, and asking for trouble.

In this case, the CC number and the security number had to be entered into the checkout form. Whether this data stayed
on the merchant's system I don't know, but it at least passed through it. With Paypal you are redirected to Paypal's own
site and the data does not pass through the merchant site at all. I have never seen a checkout where I was redirected to
a bank site to enter my CC details.

This is where my form ends up:
https://migs.mastercard.com.au/vpcpay

Of course if you try the URL, it will give errors because the transaction details are not provided on entry, but
Mastercard's secure Australian gateway is the path for all of my credit card payments, no matter what brand.

If you click on the security key in your browser, you will see that the secure certificate is owned by Mastercard Worldwide.

The CC data is entered on the Mastercard site, and not on my site.

So if you have an ANZ Visa card, and purchased from Dontronics, it would go through the Mastercard secure site, and end
up in my CBA account, and I would never see or record your CC numbers.

Clifford mentions this type of "protection" in the following message also.

Cheers Don...



--
Don McKenzie

Site Map: http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.dontronics.com/email
Web Camera Page: http://www.dontronics.com/webcam
No More Damn Spam: http://www.dontronics.com/spam

These products will reduce in price by 5% every month:
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/minus-5-every-month.html
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/ics.html

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"keithr" <keith@nowhere.com.au> wrote in message
news:4d22bd6f$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

Just before Xmas I ordered some stuff from a reputable *Australian*
retailer. I usually use Paypal for online purchases as it means that my
details (other than address of course) do not go near the actual seller.
In this case though, they only accepted credit cards, but, as they were
local, well known in their field, and used SSL, I used my Visa card.

Next day I got a call from ANZ Visa security wanting to know whether I had
ordered $250 of perfume from Hong Kong and $150 of cigars from the US.
I'm glad that their algorithms were on the ball, the transactions have
been cancelled as has the card.

I don't suspect the retailer, but when I called them to report that their
site may have been compromised, they didn't seem unduly bothered.

This is the only time that I have ever had any problems, but it shows that
the pirates are out there.

**They're EVERYWHERE. I have three credit cards. One is for business use
only. One is for personal purchases and one (with a low limit) is reserved
for internet transactions. Last year, I travelled to Canberra for a few
days. I purchased fuel at a Shell servo somewhere in the city. I pretty much
buy my fuel from only one outlet here in Sydney. I NEVER use that card for
internet transactions. Within a week of my fuel purchase in Canberra, I
received a call from my credit card issuer about an attempted purchase in
The Netherlands. Naturally, it was not me. My card was immediately
cancelled, the overseas transaction reversed and a new card issued. Funnily
enough, I recall overhearing the conversation between the servo attendent
and a young woman at the front of the queue. He was saying how he was
looking forward to his impending holiday and leaving the job he was not
happy with. I put two and two together.

Obviously my card was 'skimmed' at the servo. I now take MUCH greater care
when paying by credit card and I watch the people handling my card.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[who where]

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 17:25:51 +1100, keithr <keith@nowhere.com.au>
wrote:

Just before Xmas I ordered some stuff from a reputable *Australian*
retailer. I usually use Paypal for online purchases as it means that my
details (other than address of course) do not go near the actual seller.
In this case though, they only accepted credit cards, but, as they were
local, well known in their field, and used SSL, I used my Visa card.

Next day I got a call from ANZ Visa security wanting to know whether I
had ordered $250 of perfume from Hong Kong and $150 of cigars from the
US. I'm glad that their algorithms were on the ball, the transactions
have been cancelled as has the card.

I don't suspect the retailer, but when I called them to report that
their site may have been compromised, they didn't seem unduly bothered.

This is the only time that I have ever had any problems, but it shows
that the pirates are out there.

We were on hols in EnZed recently, using an ANZ Travel Card (which are
a good idea btw). At one POS transaction the card was declined by the
EFTPOS machine. Puzzled, we later checked it in an ATM and couldn't
even get a balance. Went into the bank and they couldn't shed any
light, but put us on the phone to ANZ Card Services in Oz.

Turned out we had used our card two nights earlier in a restaurant
which had a flag against it because of a dodgy prior transaction - not
by the restaurant but a card holder - so "the Falcon" had locked OUR
card. We established that the previous block of transactions on our
card account were genuine and it was unlocked.

Annoying, inconvenient at the time, but I guess I'd rather have the
Falcon trigger-happy than asleep at the wheel.

 

[Dr Sir John Howard, AC, W]

who where wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 17:25:51 +1100, keithr<keith@nowhere.com.au
wrote:

Just before Xmas I ordered some stuff from a reputable *Australian*
retailer. I usually use Paypal for online purchases as it means that my
details (other than address of course) do not go near the actual seller.
In this case though, they only accepted credit cards, but, as they were
local, well known in their field, and used SSL, I used my Visa card.

Next day I got a call from ANZ Visa security wanting to know whether I
had ordered $250 of perfume from Hong Kong and $150 of cigars from the
US. I'm glad that their algorithms were on the ball, the transactions
have been cancelled as has the card.

I don't suspect the retailer, but when I called them to report that
their site may have been compromised, they didn't seem unduly bothered.

This is the only time that I have ever had any problems, but it shows
that the pirates are out there.

We were on hols in EnZed recently, using an ANZ Travel Card (which are
a good idea btw). At one POS transaction the card was declined by the
EFTPOS machine. Puzzled, we later checked it in an ATM and couldn't
even get a balance. Went into the bank and they couldn't shed any
light, but put us on the phone to ANZ Card Services in Oz.

Turned out we had used our card two nights earlier in a restaurant
which had a flag against it because of a dodgy prior transaction - not
by the restaurant but a card holder - so "the Falcon" had locked OUR
card.

How fucking moronic is that! Glad I'm not with ANZ.

--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8
- KRudd at his finest.

"The Labour Party is corrupt beyond redemption!"
- Labour hasbeen Mark Latham in a moment of honest clarity.

"This is the recession we had to have!"
- Paul Keating explaining why he gave Australia another Labour recession.

"Silly old bugger!"
- Well known ACTU pisspot and sometime Labour prime minister Bob Hawke
responding to a pensioner who dared ask for more.

"By 1990, no child will live in poverty"
- Bob Hawke again, desperate to win another election.

"A billion trees ..."
- Borke, pissed as a newt again.

"Well may we say 'God save the Queen' because nothing will save the governor
general!"
- Egotistical shithead and pompous fuckwit E.G. Whitlam whining about his
appointee for Governor General John Kerr.

"SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB CUNT!"
- FlangesBum on learning the truth about Labour's economic capabilities.

"I don't care what you fuckers think!"
- KRudd the KRude Rat at his finest again.

"We'll just change it all when we get in."
- Garrett the carrott

 

[atec77]

On 6/01/2011 3:37 PM, Dr Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF wrote:

who where wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 17:25:51 +1100, keithr<keith@nowhere.com.au
wrote:

Just before Xmas I ordered some stuff from a reputable *Australian*
retailer. I usually use Paypal for online purchases as it means that my
details (other than address of course) do not go near the actual seller.
In this case though, they only accepted credit cards, but, as they were
local, well known in their field, and used SSL, I used my Visa card.

Next day I got a call from ANZ Visa security wanting to know whether I
had ordered $250 of perfume from Hong Kong and $150 of cigars from the
US. I'm glad that their algorithms were on the ball, the transactions
have been cancelled as has the card.

I don't suspect the retailer, but when I called them to report that
their site may have been compromised, they didn't seem unduly bothered.

This is the only time that I have ever had any problems, but it shows
that the pirates are out there.

We were on hols in EnZed recently, using an ANZ Travel Card (which are
a good idea btw). At one POS transaction the card was declined by the
EFTPOS machine. Puzzled, we later checked it in an ATM and couldn't
even get a balance. Went into the bank and they couldn't shed any
light, but put us on the phone to ANZ Card Services in Oz.

Turned out we had used our card two nights earlier in a restaurant
which had a flag against it because of a dodgy prior transaction - not
by the restaurant but a card holder - so "the Falcon" had locked OUR
card.

How fucking moronic is that! Glad I'm not with ANZ.

I am certain they are happy not having you

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

 

[Rod Speed]

Dr Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF wrote:

who where wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 17:25:51 +1100, keithr<keith@nowhere.com.au
wrote:

Just before Xmas I ordered some stuff from a reputable *Australian*
retailer. I usually use Paypal for online purchases as it means
that my details (other than address of course) do not go near the
actual seller. In this case though, they only accepted credit
cards, but, as they were local, well known in their field, and used
SSL, I used my Visa card. Next day I got a call from ANZ Visa security wanting to know
whether I had ordered $250 of perfume from Hong Kong and $150 of
cigars from the US. I'm glad that their algorithms were on the
ball, the transactions have been cancelled as has the card.

I don't suspect the retailer, but when I called them to report that
their site may have been compromised, they didn't seem unduly
bothered. This is the only time that I have ever had any problems, but it
shows that the pirates are out there.

We were on hols in EnZed recently, using an ANZ Travel Card (which
are a good idea btw). At one POS transaction the card was declined
by the EFTPOS machine. Puzzled, we later checked it in an ATM and
couldn't even get a balance. Went into the bank and they couldn't
shed any light, but put us on the phone to ANZ Card Services in Oz.

Turned out we had used our card two nights earlier in a restaurant
which had a flag against it because of a dodgy prior transaction -
not by the restaurant but a card holder - so "the Falcon" had locked
OUR card.

How fucking moronic is that!

Yep.

Glad I'm not with ANZ.

Me too, and I will make sure I never am too.

 

[SG1]

"Dr Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF"
<Trollene.the.liar.has.had.more.kook.outs.than.ive.had.hot.dinners@kangarooistan.com.au>
wrote in message news:4d25551a$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com...

who where wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 17:25:51 +1100, keithr<keith@nowhere.com.au
wrote:

Just before Xmas I ordered some stuff from a reputable *Australian*
retailer. I usually use Paypal for online purchases as it means that my
details (other than address of course) do not go near the actual seller.
In this case though, they only accepted credit cards, but, as they were
local, well known in their field, and used SSL, I used my Visa card.

Next day I got a call from ANZ Visa security wanting to know whether I
had ordered $250 of perfume from Hong Kong and $150 of cigars from the
US. I'm glad that their algorithms were on the ball, the transactions
have been cancelled as has the card.

I don't suspect the retailer, but when I called them to report that
their site may have been compromised, they didn't seem unduly bothered.

This is the only time that I have ever had any problems, but it shows
that the pirates are out there.

We were on hols in EnZed recently, using an ANZ Travel Card (which are
a good idea btw). At one POS transaction the card was declined by the
EFTPOS machine. Puzzled, we later checked it in an ATM and couldn't
even get a balance. Went into the bank and they couldn't shed any
light, but put us on the phone to ANZ Card Services in Oz.

Turned out we had used our card two nights earlier in a restaurant
which had a flag against it because of a dodgy prior transaction - not
by the restaurant but a card holder - so "the Falcon" had locked OUR
card.

How fucking moronic is that! Glad I'm not with ANZ.

I have a debit Visa with a smaller bank, a cupla years ago I got a call from
them asking if I bought something in London overnight, I had not. They
cancelled the card and issued a new one. I had been at 2 oz "secure" sites,
neither of which wanted to know. Has not happened since. Have not bought
from those secure again either. Cost me a few days of not having a Visa.

--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8
- KRudd at his finest.

"The Labour Party is corrupt beyond redemption!"
- Labour hasbeen Mark Latham in a moment of honest clarity.

"This is the recession we had to have!"
- Paul Keating explaining why he gave Australia another Labour recession.

"Silly old bugger!"
- Well known ACTU pisspot and sometime Labour prime minister Bob Hawke
responding to a pensioner who dared ask for more.

"By 1990, no child will live in poverty"
- Bob Hawke again, desperate to win another election.

"A billion trees ..."
- Borke, pissed as a newt again.

"Well may we say 'God save the Queen' because nothing will save the
governor general!"
- Egotistical shithead and pompous fuckwit E.G. Whitlam whining about his
appointee for Governor General John Kerr.

"SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB CUNT!"
- FlangesBum on learning the truth about Labour's economic capabilities.

"I don't care what you fuckers think!"
- KRudd the KRude Rat at his finest again.

"We'll just change it all when we get in."
- Garrett the carrott

 

[Rod Speed]

SG1 wrote:

"Dr Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF"
Trollene.the.liar.has.had.more.kook.outs.than.ive.had.hot.dinners@kangarooistan.com.au
wrote in message
news:4d25551a$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com...
who where wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 17:25:51 +1100, keithr<keith@nowhere.com.au
wrote:

Just before Xmas I ordered some stuff from a reputable *Australian*
retailer. I usually use Paypal for online purchases as it means
that my details (other than address of course) do not go near the
actual seller. In this case though, they only accepted credit
cards, but, as they were local, well known in their field, and
used SSL, I used my Visa card. Next day I got a call from ANZ Visa security wanting to know
whether I had ordered $250 of perfume from Hong Kong and $150 of
cigars from the US. I'm glad that their algorithms were on the
ball, the transactions have been cancelled as has the card.

I don't suspect the retailer, but when I called them to report that
their site may have been compromised, they didn't seem unduly
bothered. This is the only time that I have ever had any problems, but it
shows that the pirates are out there.

We were on hols in EnZed recently, using an ANZ Travel Card (which
are a good idea btw). At one POS transaction the card was declined
by the EFTPOS machine. Puzzled, we later checked it in an ATM and
couldn't even get a balance. Went into the bank and they couldn't
shed any light, but put us on the phone to ANZ Card Services in Oz.

Turned out we had used our card two nights earlier in a restaurant
which had a flag against it because of a dodgy prior transaction -
not by the restaurant but a card holder - so "the Falcon" had
locked OUR card.

How fucking moronic is that! Glad I'm not with ANZ.

I have a debit Visa with a smaller bank, a cupla years ago I got a call
from them asking if I bought something in London overnight, I had not.

And that is a reasonable thing to do, ring the customer, not just lock the card without notice.

They cancelled the card and issued a new one. I had been at
2 oz "secure" sites, neither of which wanted to know. Has not
happened since. Have not bought from those secure again either. Cost me a few days of not having a Visa.

And anyone with even half a clue has more than one card anyway.

 

[Grant]

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 23:00:38 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:

On 4/01/2011 6:10 PM, kym@kymhorsell.com wrote:

Even there, I lost out a little. While the actual amount
was corrected credited back, my bank (NAB) insisted I had to pay the
interest and various fees (international purchase, etc) on it.
Paypal also took a non-refundable nibble for converting $A->$C and back again.

You should have told them both to go play in the traffic. Credit card
fraud is perpetrated against the card issuer, not the card holder. You
were not liable for any part of the cost.

And remember, a credit card account is merely the card issuer's view
about how much you owe. You don't have to agree with their view.

Ever tried going the FOS route to sort out a claim, after months of arguing
with your bank? Just goes on and on and on.


Another time when I tried to cancel a transaction because it looked like
Internet fraud, the bank said they could do nothing until the transaction
went trough and I put in a dispute form. The banks are uninterested in
preventing fraud from happening. They charge the high interest rate on
CCs to cover the fraud, the consumers pay, not the banks. As it happened,
the company concerned fixed their order confirmation email that triggered
my contacting the bank, cancelled the order and all ended well.


Another thing is that Paypal are a financial institution in .au subject to
the FOS, take them to FOS if they make an unfair decision, as long as you
have the documentation to prove your case. Faster then trying to get them
reopen case closed in the other side's favour. Paypal were a lot more
responsive to a FOS complaint than my bank is. My bank will say anything
over the phone to quiet a customer's concerns, but they refuse to put it in
writing. Too many lies.

Grant.

Sylvia.

 

[Grant]

On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 21:02:47 +1000, "SG1" <lostitall@the.races> wrote:

"Dr Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF"
Trollene.the.liar.has.had.more.kook.outs.than.ive.had.hot.dinners@kangarooistan.com.au
wrote in message news:4d25551a$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com...
who where wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 17:25:51 +1100, keithr<keith@nowhere.com.au
wrote:

Just before Xmas I ordered some stuff from a reputable *Australian*
....
This is the only time that I have ever had any problems, but it shows
that the pirates are out there.

We were on hols in EnZed recently, using an ANZ Travel Card (which are
a good idea btw). At one POS transaction the card was declined by the
EFTPOS machine. Puzzled, we later checked it in an ATM and couldn't
even get a balance. Went into the bank and they couldn't shed any
light, but put us on the phone to ANZ Card Services in Oz.

Turned out we had used our card two nights earlier in a restaurant
which had a flag against it because of a dodgy prior transaction - not
by the restaurant but a card holder - so "the Falcon" had locked OUR
card.

How fucking moronic is that! Glad I'm not with ANZ.

I have a debit Visa with a smaller bank, a cupla years ago I got a call from
them asking if I bought something in London overnight, I had not. They
cancelled the card and issued a new one. I had been at 2 oz "secure" sites,
neither of which wanted to know. Has not happened since. Have not bought
from those secure again either. Cost me a few days of not having a Visa.

I have a Visa card since early 1990s for Internet use, never had a fraud
issue, but had a couple dodgy sellers over last few years -- so my complaints
are more against sellers for valid but bad transactions.

These are harder to fight and win as one must visit bank and fill in forms,
present documentation clearly showing one's claim in a way even a banker can
understand. Wait a few weeks for the refund. Last six months indicates to
me that Paypal sellers are more dodgy than the online companies with their
own credit merchant account. One still has to take care not to be ripped by
freight costs.

While overseas sellers are the worst, last week I got a refund from a Melbourne
seller, paid by paypal. I'm down freight for a faulty product But I suppose
that's better than being stuck with a product that should be subject to recall,
since the manufacturer has not made firmware upgrade available for a known fault.
(External drive, the disk inside has firmware fix available to fix data corruption
issue, but no firmware for the external drives, they chose to refund rather than
fix).

I live in a country town, so Internet ordering is a big option for me these days,
I've spent a few thousand over the Internet last couple years with a very small
percentage problem rate. Though I rarely use eBay I trust a couple Chinese
sellers for niche items, had too many rips from .au 'home' businesses selling
junk.

Grant.