That Field-Strengh Meter again...

[Paul Burridge]

HI all,

I refer you to Analogue's design which can be seen on this page:
http://www.burridge8333.fsbusiness.co.uk/fsm3.gif

I have now built the circuit, but it has an immediate problem on
switch-on: the meter (represented by "Lmeter" in the diagram shoots
over to nearly full scale in the absence of any input signal. I've
tried adjusting the zero setting for it but to no avail. I then set
about carrying out the usual DC voltage checks and found that by
placing a probe tip on nodes 5 or 6 I was able to get the needle to
back down to nil reading as it should. But this effect only lasts as
long as I'm holding any metal object against nodes 5 or 6. If I
release them, then the needle swings over towards FSD again. Any idea
what might cause this? Initially I thought is was maybe the DVM
loading down a hi impdence point in the circuit, but it turns out the
probe you apply doesn't even have to have a ground connection; single
hand contact alone by a metal screwdriver is sufficient. It's not a
dry joint and I've checked the wiring etc. Any ideas? Could it be
self-oscillating for some reason? If so what can be done about it? I'm
applying no input signal whatever at this stage, BTW. And ignore the
power supply arrangement as I'm using 2X3V dry cells at this stage so
it's nothing to do with the zeners jittering eitiher.

Thanks,

p,
--

My opinion is worth what you've paid for it.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:43:09 +0000, Paul Burridge
<pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote:

HI all,

I refer you to Analogue's design which can be seen on this page:
http://www.burridge8333.fsbusiness.co.uk/fsm3.gif

I have now built the circuit, but it has an immediate problem on
switch-on: the meter (represented by "Lmeter" in the diagram shoots
over to nearly full scale in the absence of any input signal. I've
tried adjusting the zero setting for it but to no avail. I then set
about carrying out the usual DC voltage checks and found that by
placing a probe tip on nodes 5 or 6 I was able to get the needle to
back down to nil reading as it should. But this effect only lasts as
long as I'm holding any metal object against nodes 5 or 6. If I
release them, then the needle swings over towards FSD again. Any idea
what might cause this? Initially I thought is was maybe the DVM
loading down a hi impdence point in the circuit, but it turns out the
probe you apply doesn't even have to have a ground connection; single
hand contact alone by a metal screwdriver is sufficient. It's not a
dry joint and I've checked the wiring etc. Any ideas? Could it be
self-oscillating for some reason? If so what can be done about it? I'm
applying no input signal whatever at this stage, BTW. And ignore the
power supply arrangement as I'm using 2X3V dry cells at this stage so
it's nothing to do with the zeners jittering eitiher.

Thanks,

p,

Gee, Paul, I thought you knew it all. And watch out for those "zeners
jittering" ;-)

ROTFLMAO!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[John Smith]

"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9vjb009idpj420365impno7n9uaur5j6g1@4ax.com...

HI all,

I refer you to Analogue's design which can be seen on this page:
http://www.burridge8333.fsbusiness.co.uk/fsm3.gif

I have now built the circuit, but it has an immediate problem on
switch-on: the meter (represented by "Lmeter" in the diagram shoots
over to nearly full scale in the absence of any input signal. I've
tried adjusting the zero setting for it but to no avail. I then set
about carrying out the usual DC voltage checks and found that by
placing a probe tip on nodes 5 or 6 I was able to get the needle to
back down to nil reading as it should. But this effect only lasts as
long as I'm holding any metal object against nodes 5 or 6. If I
release them, then the needle swings over towards FSD again. Any idea
what might cause this? Initially I thought is was maybe the DVM
loading down a hi impdence point in the circuit, but it turns out the
probe you apply doesn't even have to have a ground connection; single
hand contact alone by a metal screwdriver is sufficient. It's not a
dry joint and I've checked the wiring etc. Any ideas? Could it be
self-oscillating for some reason? If so what can be done about it? I'm
applying no input signal whatever at this stage, BTW. And ignore the
power supply arrangement as I'm using 2X3V dry cells at this stage so
it's nothing to do with the zeners jittering eitiher.

Thanks,

p,
--

I'd bet it's oscillating and your probe is detuning it enough to stabilize
it. Try shorting node 2 or node 3 to ground and see if you get the same
effect.

-Assuming you've done what I did (build it on a piece of copper-clad FR4),
you can solder little walls of thin brass sheet between the stages.

-You should lay the whole thing out in a long, thin, line--about like the
schematic--to keep the input away from the output.

-Make sure the axis of L1 is perpendicular to L2. Detune L2 a little. Or
change C2 temporarily to see if it stops. In feedback situations like this,
resonance is not necessarily your friend.

-Remove any antenna temporarily.

Just some things to try.

John

 

[mike]

Paul Burridge wrote:

HI all,

I refer you to Analogue's design which can be seen on this page:
http://www.burridge8333.fsbusiness.co.uk/fsm3.gif

I have now built the circuit, but it has an immediate problem on
switch-on: the meter (represented by "Lmeter" in the diagram shoots
over to nearly full scale in the absence of any input signal. I've
tried adjusting the zero setting for it but to no avail. I then set
about carrying out the usual DC voltage checks and found that by
placing a probe tip on nodes 5 or 6 I was able to get the needle to
back down to nil reading as it should. But this effect only lasts as
long as I'm holding any metal object against nodes 5 or 6. If I
release them, then the needle swings over towards FSD again. Any idea
what might cause this? Initially I thought is was maybe the DVM
loading down a hi impdence point in the circuit, but it turns out the
probe you apply doesn't even have to have a ground connection; single
hand contact alone by a metal screwdriver is sufficient. It's not a
dry joint and I've checked the wiring etc. Any ideas? Could it be
self-oscillating for some reason? If so what can be done about it? I'm
applying no input signal whatever at this stage, BTW. And ignore the
power supply arrangement as I'm using 2X3V dry cells at this stage so
it's nothing to do with the zeners jittering eitiher.

Thanks,

p,

What does your oscilloscope say?
If you don't have one available, put down you simulator and
go find one.

How are you shielding between stages and the whole thing
to keep the amplified signal out of the antenna?
How are you keeping L1 from talking to L2?

I know I've said this more than once before: "Design first, Simulate
second." That way you can simulate the strays in your DESIGN.
And not waste your/my time simulating stuff with fundamental flaws.

I've also said this before: "This is a funky circuit that depends
on extreme impedance transformations done in a very component sensitive
manner to do it's job." Yep, on paper
and in the simulator, it may look ok. Just try to build one. It has
multiple oscillators just waiting to happen. See if
it works in the real world.

I really enjoy these threads. I don't have to subscribe to the
newspaper to read the funnies. Keep 'em comin'. I'm saving 3 bucks a week.
mike


--
Return address is VALID.
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment
Honda CB-125S $800 in PDX
TEK Sampling Sweep Plugin and RM564
Tek 2465 $800, ham radio, 30pS pulser
Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head...
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/

 

[Active8]

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:50:54 -0700, thegreatone@example.com said...

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:43:09 +0000, Paul Burridge
pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote:

HI all,

I refer you to Analogue's design which can be seen on this page:
http://www.burridge8333.fsbusiness.co.uk/fsm3.gif

I have now built the circuit, but it has an immediate problem on
switch-on: the meter (represented by "Lmeter" in the diagram shoots
over to nearly full scale in the absence of any input signal. I've
tried adjusting the zero setting for it but to no avail. I then set
about carrying out the usual DC voltage checks and found that by
placing a probe tip on nodes 5 or 6 I was able to get the needle to
back down to nil reading as it should. But this effect only lasts as
long as I'm holding any metal object against nodes 5 or 6. If I
release them, then the needle swings over towards FSD again. Any idea
what might cause this? Initially I thought is was maybe the DVM
loading down a hi impdence point in the circuit, but it turns out the
probe you apply doesn't even have to have a ground connection; single
hand contact alone by a metal screwdriver is sufficient. It's not a
dry joint and I've checked the wiring etc. Any ideas? Could it be
self-oscillating for some reason? If so what can be done about it? I'm
applying no input signal whatever at this stage, BTW. And ignore the
power supply arrangement as I'm using 2X3V dry cells at this stage so
it's nothing to do with the zeners jittering eitiher.

Thanks,

p,

Gee, Paul, I thought you knew it all. And watch out for those "zeners
jittering" ;-)

ROTFLMAO!

...Jim Thompson

London/S.E.D. bridge is

| /|
----/|-----|------/-|-----------
---/-|-----|-----|--|-----o-----
--|--|----o------|-o-----|------
--|-o-----------o--------|------
-o-----------------------|------

burn-ing down, burn-ing down...

I didn't see any littering beaners last time I was in Houston. Do
they have a problem with that in the UK?

--
Best Regards,
Mike

 

[Leon Heller]

Paul Burridge wrote:

HI all,

I refer you to Analogue's design which can be seen on this page:
http://www.burridge8333.fsbusiness.co.uk/fsm3.gif

I have now built the circuit, but it has an immediate problem on
switch-on: the meter (represented by "Lmeter" in the diagram shoots
over to nearly full scale in the absence of any input signal. I've
tried adjusting the zero setting for it but to no avail. I then set
about carrying out the usual DC voltage checks and found that by
placing a probe tip on nodes 5 or 6 I was able to get the needle to
back down to nil reading as it should. But this effect only lasts as
long as I'm holding any metal object against nodes 5 or 6. If I
release them, then the needle swings over towards FSD again. Any idea
what might cause this? Initially I thought is was maybe the DVM
loading down a hi impdence point in the circuit, but it turns out the
probe you apply doesn't even have to have a ground connection; single
hand contact alone by a metal screwdriver is sufficient. It's not a
dry joint and I've checked the wiring etc. Any ideas? Could it be
self-oscillating for some reason? If so what can be done about it? I'm
applying no input signal whatever at this stage, BTW. And ignore the
power supply arrangement as I'm using 2X3V dry cells at this stage so
it's nothing to do with the zeners jittering eitiher.

I'd scrap that circuit and use cascaded broadband amplifiers with 50 ohm
input/output impedances

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com
My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM development system:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html

 

[Paul Burridge]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:16:55 +0000, Leon Heller <aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com>
wrote:

Paul Burridge wrote:

HI all,

I refer you to Analogue's design which can be seen on this page:
http://www.burridge8333.fsbusiness.co.uk/fsm3.gif

I have now built the circuit, but it has an immediate problem on
switch-on: the meter (represented by "Lmeter" in the diagram shoots
over to nearly full scale in the absence of any input signal. I've
tried adjusting the zero setting for it but to no avail. I then set
about carrying out the usual DC voltage checks and found that by
placing a probe tip on nodes 5 or 6 I was able to get the needle to
back down to nil reading as it should. But this effect only lasts as
long as I'm holding any metal object against nodes 5 or 6. If I
release them, then the needle swings over towards FSD again. Any idea
what might cause this? Initially I thought is was maybe the DVM
loading down a hi impdence point in the circuit, but it turns out the
probe you apply doesn't even have to have a ground connection; single
hand contact alone by a metal screwdriver is sufficient. It's not a
dry joint and I've checked the wiring etc. Any ideas? Could it be
self-oscillating for some reason? If so what can be done about it? I'm
applying no input signal whatever at this stage, BTW. And ignore the
power supply arrangement as I'm using 2X3V dry cells at this stage so
it's nothing to do with the zeners jittering eitiher.


I'd scrap that circuit and use cascaded broadband amplifiers with 50 ohm
input/output impedances

It's probably a lay-out/shielding problem as some people here have
suggested. I'll get it working eventually with or without assistance;
it'll just take longer without. Anyway, *some* people here have given
helpful pointers which I shall investigate. I shall stick with it.
Everyone said what a great design it was when Analogue first posted it
so I see no need to "scrap" it at this initial stage!
--

My opinion is worth what you've paid for it.

 

[Paul Burridge]

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:50:54 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Gee, Paul, I thought you knew it all. And watch out for those "zeners
jittering" ;-)

You mean you've never heard of "zener jitter"??
--

My opinion is worth what you've paid for it.

 

[Leon Heller]

Paul Burridge wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:16:55 +0000, Leon Heller <aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com
wrote:



Paul Burridge wrote:


HI all,

I refer you to Analogue's design which can be seen on this page:
http://www.burridge8333.fsbusiness.co.uk/fsm3.gif



I'd scrap that circuit and use cascaded broadband amplifiers with 50 ohm
input/output impedances


It's probably a lay-out/shielding problem as some people here have
suggested. I'll get it working eventually with or without assistance;
it'll just take longer without. Anyway, *some* people here have given
helpful pointers which I shall investigate. I shall stick with it.
Everyone said what a great design it was when Analogue first posted it
so I see no need to "scrap" it at this initial stage!

This is the sci.electronics.design NG - note the word "design"! I was
just suggesting a better, easier and quicker way to go about it.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com
My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM development system:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html

 

[Frank Bemelman]

"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:eesc00lc5sn0u55m2g8ss70fhjg9s4kgq9@4ax.com...

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:50:54 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Gee, Paul, I thought you knew it all. And watch out for those "zeners
jittering" ;-)

You mean you've never heard of "zener jitter"??

I don't know what it is.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'x' and 'invalid' when replying by email)

 

[Active8]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:28:56 +0100, fbemelx@euronet.invalid.nl
said...

"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:eesc00lc5sn0u55m2g8ss70fhjg9s4kgq9@4ax.com...
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:50:54 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Gee, Paul, I thought you knew it all. And watch out for those "zeners
jittering" ;-)

You mean you've never heard of "zener jitter"??

I don't know what it is.


A new dance or an ancient one?

--
Best Regards,
Mike

 

[Active8]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:26:50 +0000, aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com said...

Paul Burridge wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:16:55 +0000, Leon Heller <aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com
wrote:



Paul Burridge wrote:


HI all,

I refer you to Analogue's design which can be seen on this page:
http://www.burridge8333.fsbusiness.co.uk/fsm3.gif



I'd scrap that circuit and use cascaded broadband amplifiers with 50 ohm
input/output impedances


It's probably a lay-out/shielding problem as some people here have
suggested. I'll get it working eventually with or without assistance;
it'll just take longer without. Anyway, *some* people here have given
helpful pointers which I shall investigate. I shall stick with it.
Everyone said what a great design it was when Analogue first posted it
so I see no need to "scrap" it at this initial stage!

This is the sci.electronics.design NG - note the word "design"! I was
just suggesting a better, easier and quicker way to go about it.

Leon

Like those affordable broadband MMICs. This *was* supposed to be a

relative FSM, not a SLM, so if a broadband FSM is reading signal
with the TX unkeyed, and more signal with it keyed, you have a
"relative" measurement.

It's a good enough project, though. More learning involved than a
poor-mans spectrum analyzer.
--
Best Regards,
Mike

 

[Leon Heller]

Active8 wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:26:50 +0000, aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com said...


Paul Burridge wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:16:55 +0000, Leon Heller <aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com
wrote:



Paul Burridge wrote:



HI all,

I refer you to Analogue's design which can be seen on this page:
http://www.burridge8333.fsbusiness.co.uk/fsm3.gif


I'd scrap that circuit and use cascaded broadband amplifiers with 50 ohm
input/output impedances


It's probably a lay-out/shielding problem as some people here have
suggested. I'll get it working eventually with or without assistance;
it'll just take longer without. Anyway, *some* people here have given
helpful pointers which I shall investigate. I shall stick with it.
Everyone said what a great design it was when Analogue first posted it
so I see no need to "scrap" it at this initial stage!

This is the sci.electronics.design NG - note the word "design"! I was
just suggesting a better, easier and quicker way to go about it.

Leon


Like those affordable broadband MMICs. This *was* supposed to be a
relative FSM, not a SLM, so if a broadband FSM is reading signal
with the TX unkeyed, and more signal with it keyed, you have a
"relative" measurement.

I was thinking of using discrete transistors like the 2N5179 with 4:1
transmission line transformers.

It's a good enough project, though. More learning involved than a
poor-mans spectrum analyzer.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com
My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM development system:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html

 

[Active8]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:55:21 +0000, aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com said...

Active8 wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:26:50 +0000, aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com said...


Paul Burridge wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:16:55 +0000, Leon Heller <aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com
wrote:



Paul Burridge wrote:



HI all,

I refer you to Analogue's design which can be seen on this page:
http://www.burridge8333.fsbusiness.co.uk/fsm3.gif


I'd scrap that circuit and use cascaded broadband amplifiers with 50 ohm
input/output impedances


It's probably a lay-out/shielding problem as some people here have
suggested. I'll get it working eventually with or without assistance;
it'll just take longer without. Anyway, *some* people here have given
helpful pointers which I shall investigate. I shall stick with it.
Everyone said what a great design it was when Analogue first posted it
so I see no need to "scrap" it at this initial stage!

This is the sci.electronics.design NG - note the word "design"! I was
just suggesting a better, easier and quicker way to go about it.

Leon


Like those affordable broadband MMICs. This *was* supposed to be a
relative FSM, not a SLM, so if a broadband FSM is reading signal
with the TX unkeyed, and more signal with it keyed, you have a
"relative" measurement.

I was thinking of using discrete transistors like the 2N5179 with 4:1
transmission line transformers.

That'll work.

It's a good enough project, though. More learning involved than a
poor-mans spectrum analyzer.

Leon

--
Best Regards,
Mike

 

[Paul Burridge]

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:09:42 -0800, mike <spamme0@juno.com> wrote:

What does your oscilloscope say?
If you don't have one available, put down you simulator and
go find one.

Yeah, I've got one but it seemed a bit of a waste of time trying to
make measurments with it since the fault appeared to disappear with
the application of any prod/probe or whatever to that part of the
circuit. *However* I've made some checks nonetheless and the situation
ain't good. There are multiple parasitic oscillations of all sorts,
shapes and frequencies at just about every blasted node on the circuit
board. The whole thing is about as unstable as you could possibly
imagine and I'm at a complete loss as to know where to begin, quite
frankly. :-( And this is before it's even subjected to any input
signal stimulus!

How are you shielding between stages and the whole thing
to keep the amplified signal out of the antenna?

There's no antenna yet! There's no shielding either. I'm relying on
trying to keep the components reasoably well spaced-apart. I'm going
to post a photo of it later in case there's some obvious construction
error I've made with the layout on the PCB.

How are you keeping L1 from talking to L2?

I've tried interposing a grounded copper plate between them but it
made no difference. Pity as it was a good suggestion.

I know I've said this more than once before: "Design first, Simulate
second." That way you can simulate the strays in your DESIGN.
And not waste your/my time simulating stuff with fundamental flaws.

This isn't my design, remember. It was posted here by someone who
knows what they're talking about, was widely applauded by others who
presumably know the same, and built in a modified form by John Smith
(only one RF stage instead of two) and reported to be working fine.

I've also said this before: "This is a funky circuit that depends
on extreme impedance transformations done in a very component sensitive
manner to do it's job." Yep, on paper
and in the simulator, it may look ok. Just try to build one. It has
multiple oscillators just waiting to happen. See if
it works in the real world.

"Multiple oscillations just waiting to happen" Seems you're right! How
could you tell that from just inspection of the schematic?
--

My opinion is worth what you've paid for it.

 

[Paul Burridge]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:28:56 +0100, "Frank Bemelman"
<fbemelx@euronet.invalid.nl> wrote:

"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:eesc00lc5sn0u55m2g8ss70fhjg9s4kgq9@4ax.com...
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:50:54 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Gee, Paul, I thought you knew it all. And watch out for those "zeners
jittering" ;-)

You mean you've never heard of "zener jitter"??

I don't know what it is.

In that case I want it named after me. Miller and Early shove over.


--

My opinion is worth what you've paid for it.

 

[Paul Burridge]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:55:49 GMT, "John Smith" <jocjo-john@yooha.com>
wrote:

I'd bet it's oscillating and your probe is detuning it enough to stabilize
it. Try shorting node 2 or node 3 to ground and see if you get the same
effect.

For the sake of completeness, I've shorted nodes 2,3,4 & 5 to GND
sequentially and noted the following effect on the meter needle:

N2: Slightly worse (higher meter reading)
N3: Big reduction to about 5% of FSD
N4: Total zeroing to natural resting position
N5: Reduction to about 10% of FSD.

Shorting out N4 therefore produced the most dramatic reaction but
maybe the whole thing gets killed by doing that; I don't know...
--

My opinion is worth what you've paid for it.

 

[Frank Bemelman]

"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:6i9d00ts1mup1br954si3llamb4qhk2cp1@4ax.com...

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:28:56 +0100, "Frank Bemelman"
fbemelx@euronet.invalid.nl> wrote:

"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:eesc00lc5sn0u55m2g8ss70fhjg9s4kgq9@4ax.com...
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:50:54 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Gee, Paul, I thought you knew it all. And watch out for those "zeners
jittering" ;-)

You mean you've never heard of "zener jitter"??

I don't know what it is.

In that case I want it named after me. Miller and Early shove over.

Okay, but I still don't know what it is.


--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'x' and 'invalid' when replying by email)

 

[Fred Bartoli]

"Frank Bemelman" <fbemelx@euronet.invalid.nl> a écrit dans le message news:
4006cf94$0$125$3b62cedd@news.wanadoo.nl...

"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:6i9d00ts1mup1br954si3llamb4qhk2cp1@4ax.com...
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:28:56 +0100, "Frank Bemelman"
fbemelx@euronet.invalid.nl> wrote:

"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:eesc00lc5sn0u55m2g8ss70fhjg9s4kgq9@4ax.com...
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:50:54 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Gee, Paul, I thought you knew it all. And watch out for those
"zeners
jittering" ;-)

You mean you've never heard of "zener jitter"??

I don't know what it is.

In that case I want it named after me. Miller and Early shove over.


Okay, but I still don't know what it is.

Guess what ?
Neither Paul, nor every body here.

There's simply nothing like that.


Fred.

 

[Paul Burridge]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:21:07 +0100, "Fred Bartoli"
<fred._canxxxel_this_bartoli@RemoveThatAlso_free.fr_AndThisToo> wrote:

"Frank Bemelman" <fbemelx@euronet.invalid.nl> a écrit dans le message news:
4006cf94$0$125$3b62cedd@news.wanadoo.nl...
"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:6i9d00ts1mup1br954si3llamb4qhk2cp1@4ax.com...
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:28:56 +0100, "Frank Bemelman"
fbemelx@euronet.invalid.nl> wrote:

Okay, but I still don't know what it is.


Guess what ?
Neither Paul, nor every body here.

There's simply nothing like that.

No, no, no. I'm gonna get me a Nobel Prize for this one. I just don't
want it (this thread's deviating) upsetting the current question and
thereby robbing me of a solution to the FSM problem.
--

My opinion is worth what you've paid for it.