Thanks for Jeff Liebermann for suggesting the Costco cable m

[ceg]

Thank you Jeff Liebermann for being a technical wiz-kid genius!
http://i.imgur.com/obYQsU9.jpg

I just want to shout out to Jeff Liebermann for suggesting the Costco
cable modem (Motorola/Arris SB6141) for about $85 out the door, and again
thanks go to Jeff for suggesting I ask for a discount on the Comcast $50
"installation fee".

I hooked it up with a $1 CATV cable from Goodwill and then called Comcast
who first wanted to charge me $50 for installation, and then $15 when I
argued for free and then the guy used a "promo code" to get me down to $6
for their "installation" fee.

I couldn't get him any lower than $6, so I took that.

In ten minutes it was working fine. They did everything over the wires.

They charge about $45 monthly (I don't know what the taxes will be
though) for 45Mbps down and 5Mbps up.

They try to talk you into 100Mbps down and 10 Mbps up for $50 but we
tested it at 90Mbps out the modem RJ45 to a laptop and about 60Mbps using
the 2.5GHz WiFi out of the router attached to the modem using
speedtest.comcast.net as our test web site (and Firefox 39.0.3).

The only router Costco had was too expensive though (at $130 + about $13
tax for the Netgear Nighthawk AC1750). So, at Frys, I bought a $75 TP-
Link Archer C5 (do you think that was a good tradeoff?) for roughly about
half the price. http://i.imgur.com/obYQsU9.jpg

With Jeff's suggested Arris/Motorola cable modem from Costco, the $85 out
the door will pay for itself in a few months:

1. Saved $45 minus $6 = $39 on installation fees (but I had to supply a
CATV coax cable so let's call that a $30 savings to make the math easy).
2. Saved $10 each month on modem rental fees
3. I get a GREAT modem (fast!).

So, in the first month, I saved about half the modem cost alone, at about
$40; and in the next four or five months, the modem is paid for. Then,
each month, the modem, in effect, saves me another $10 every month.

You can't beat that equation!
Thanks Jeff for being so smart!
Santa Cruz is lucky to have you!

I bought the following, but will return the Costco router I think:
http://i.imgur.com/obYQsU9.jpg

TP-Link Archer C5 router ($75 at Fryes)
Netgear Nighthawk AC1750 router ($130 at Costco)
Motorola/Arris SB6141 cable modem ($75 at Costco)

Only question left is whether the Costco router is worth it for just two
kids sharing an Internet connection away at school.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 8/15/2015 7:11 PM, ceg wrote:

Thank you Jeff Liebermann for being a technical wiz-kid genius!
http://i.imgur.com/obYQsU9.jpg

I just want to shout out to Jeff Liebermann for suggesting the Costco
cable modem (Motorola/Arris SB6141) for about $85 out the door, and again
thanks go to Jeff for suggesting I ask for a discount on the Comcast $50
"installation fee".

I hooked it up with a $1 CATV cable from Goodwill and then called Comcast
who first wanted to charge me $50 for installation, and then $15 when I
argued for free and then the guy used a "promo code" to get me down to $6
for their "installation" fee.

I couldn't get him any lower than $6, so I took that.

In ten minutes it was working fine. They did everything over the wires.

They charge about $45 monthly (I don't know what the taxes will be
though) for 45Mbps down and 5Mbps up.

They try to talk you into 100Mbps down and 10 Mbps up for $50 but we
tested it at 90Mbps out the modem RJ45 to a laptop and about 60Mbps using
the 2.5GHz WiFi out of the router attached to the modem using
speedtest.comcast.net as our test web site (and Firefox 39.0.3).

The only router Costco had was too expensive though (at $130 + about $13
tax for the Netgear Nighthawk AC1750). So, at Frys, I bought a $75 TP-
Link Archer C5 (do you think that was a good tradeoff?) for roughly about
half the price. http://i.imgur.com/obYQsU9.jpg

With Jeff's suggested Arris/Motorola cable modem from Costco, the $85 out
the door will pay for itself in a few months:

1. Saved $45 minus $6 = $39 on installation fees (but I had to supply a
CATV coax cable so let's call that a $30 savings to make the math easy).
2. Saved $10 each month on modem rental fees
3. I get a GREAT modem (fast!).

So, in the first month, I saved about half the modem cost alone, at about
$40; and in the next four or five months, the modem is paid for. Then,
each month, the modem, in effect, saves me another $10 every month.

You can't beat that equation!
Thanks Jeff for being so smart!
Santa Cruz is lucky to have you!

I bought the following, but will return the Costco router I think:
http://i.imgur.com/obYQsU9.jpg

TP-Link Archer C5 router ($75 at Fryes)
Netgear Nighthawk AC1750 router ($130 at Costco)
Motorola/Arris SB6141 cable modem ($75 at Costco)

Only question left is whether the Costco router is worth it for just two
kids sharing an Internet connection away at school.

One good option for a router is to get a used Netgear WNDR3700 from eBay
for $20 and install OpenWRT on it. You get a decently secure router
with a lot of stooch for very cheap. I have a couple like that, and I'm
very happy with them.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[ceg]

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 19:57:19 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Make sure you got hardware version v2.0, not v1.20.

Nymshifting is part and parcel with privacy. Sorry. I hate it just
as much as I hate locking my bicycle up and removing the seat, lights,
and mirrors every time I park it. But, in today's world, we're forced to
do it.

Sorry about that. You're amazingly "open" with who you are, but I can't
be that open. Too much at stake.

You know who I am anyway - since I have emailed you in the past.

Anyway, thanks for the advice on the Archer C5 hardware version.
The router is up at the college but I have the box.

The serial-number sticker on the box says it's version 2.0 so I
got must have gotten lucky on the hardware version at Frys.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 23:11:31 +0000 (UTC), ceg
<curt.guldenschuh@gmail.com> wrote:

>Thank you Jeff Liebermann for being a technical wiz-kid genius!

Y'er welcome. However, I'm no longer a kid and certainly have never
been a genius. Please keep your superlatives reasonable and knock off
the nymshifting.

I just want to shout out to Jeff Liebermann for suggesting the Costco
cable modem (Motorola/Arris SB6141) for about $85 out the door, and again
thanks go to Jeff for suggesting I ask for a discount on the Comcast $50
"installation fee".

I certainly suggested buying the SB6141 at Costco, but I don't believe
it was me that suggested negotiating the installation fee. At the
time, Comcast considered the fee as mandatory. However, subsequent
threats of litigation based upon charging for services that were not
rendered has magically made the fee negotiable. The problem was that
anyone that physically picked up their equipment at the local Comcast
store would not be charged an installation fee since it was a "self
install". However, Comcast didn't have a check box for those that
purchased their own equipment, and therefore billed everyone possible
for non-service. I ran into this problem with one new customer, so I
suggested a rather ridiculous alternative. They ordered service along
with the rental of a gateway device, which they picked up at the store
as a self install. They then purchased an SB6141 at Costco and
activated it. Once working, they returned the unopened gateway device
for credit. The customer is rather old, so I walked him through the
entire ridiculous ceremony, which included informing everyone within
range of what was happening and why.

>In ten minutes it was working fine. They did everything over the wires.

Impressive. Much depends on who you get on the phone. I've heard of
hour long ordeals and have experienced 20 minute activation acrimony.

They charge about $45 monthly (I don't know what the taxes will be
though) for 45Mbps down and 5Mbps up.

I've always found it odd that Comcast is unable to provide an accurate
estimate. Perhaps they're afraid of sticker shock?

They try to talk you into 100Mbps down and 10 Mbps up for $50 but we
tested it at 90Mbps out the modem RJ45 to a laptop and about 60Mbps using
the 2.5GHz WiFi out of the router attached to the modem using
speedtest.comcast.net as our test web site (and Firefox 39.0.3).

I've seen 179/12 Mbits/sec in Felton. One customer that had the old
12/1 Mbits/sec service now has more than double at 88/6:
<http://results.speedtest.comcast.net/result/999633544.png>
What happened is that on Tues Aug 11, Comcast magically doubled the
speed of residential internet service.
<http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/business/20150810/comcast-unveils-faster-internet-for-santa-cruz>
I'll spare you my conspiracy theories, but will add an anecdote. The
speed did NOT increase for business class Comcast customers. So, I
walked over to the Comcast store and asked if they could find out the
status and plans, if any. I was blessed with several useless phone
numbers, that connected me to people that didn't know, didn't care,
and didn't bother to obtain the information. Welcome to the legendary
Comcast customer service.

The only router Costco had was too expensive though (at $130 + about $13
tax for the Netgear Nighthawk AC1750). So, at Frys, I bought a $75 TP-
Link Archer C5 (do you think that was a good tradeoff?) for roughly about
half the price. http://i.imgur.com/obYQsU9.jpg

TP-Link routers are amazingly good products hidden inside amazingly
weird packages. I have a few in service that have had no problems
(after I updated the firmware). With the cable speeds that you're
getting, you should be running 802.11ac something to get something
near full speed. However, the reason the TP-Links is probably cheaper
is that it only does AC1200 (2x2) while the Netgear does AC1750 (3x3).
Whether you actually get the rated speeds depends heavily on your
client radios and RF environment. If it's with a tablet or
smartphone, forget it.
<http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-reviews/32651-ac1200-router-roundup-part-1>
Wireless performance is allegedly about 7 to 10 times your Comcast
performance, so you'll probably do ok.
<http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/images/stories/wireless/ac1200_roundup/ac1200_router_roundup_benchmark_summary.jpg>
Make sure you got hardware version v2.0, not v1.20.

Only question left is whether the Costco router is worth it for just two
kids sharing an Internet connection away at school.

Probably not. The extra wirless speed is if your kids are copying or
moving massive files via wireless. Hopefully, that's not happening.
Another is reduced latency if they are doing gaming. If you monitor
the wireless mode (with a sniffer), you'll find that in the presence
of even the slightest amount of interference, the router will switch
down to 802.11g speeds or about 25 Mbits/sec throughput maximum. The
higher speeds do have their use (such as using less air time) but
usually require an ideal RF environment in order to be used full time.

It might be fun to lock the wireless mode and speeds to 802.11ac.
Let's see if it can be done:
<http://www.tp-link.com/resources/simulator/C5_v2_simulator/Index.htm>
Yep. On 2.4GHz, you can select 802.11n mode only. On 5GHz, you can
select 802.11ac only. Try AC only, copy something across the network
via wireless, and see what manner of range you can get.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[ceg]

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 19:57:19 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I certainly suggested buying the SB6141 at Costco, but I don't believe
it was me that suggested negotiating the installation fee. At the time,
Comcast considered the fee as mandatory.

The SB6141 modem is great, as it's fast, and it will pay for itself in
less than a year, what with Comcast dropping the installation fee to six
bucks and also dropping the ten-dollar monthly rental fee.

However, as I recall, the speeds went from 90Mbps down to about 60Mbps
down simply by switching from a modem-to-laptop wired connection to a
modem-to-router-to-lapop-wireless connection.

That's a huge drop in speed (measured at speedtest.comcast.net).

Is that normal to lose 30 Mbps just by switching from wired directly to
wireless?

NOTE: I just realized while writing this that we never checked the wired
speed directly out of the router, which I'll ask the kids to do for me.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 05:33:58 +0000 (UTC), ceg
<curt.guldenschuh@gmail.com> wrote:

The SB6141 modem is great, as it's fast, and it will pay for itself in
less than a year, what with Comcast dropping the installation fee to six
bucks and also dropping the ten-dollar monthly rental fee.

Yep. The math is simple enough. If you're going to remain a Comcast
customer for more than 9 months, you might as well buy your own modem.

The only gotcha is if you decide to subscribe to the Comcast phone
service. In the past, it was possible to buy an Arris TM722G
telephony modem, which was on the Comcast approved list. No more.
Now, you're stuck with buying a TM862G/CT which is the very device I
was trying to avoid:
<http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/device.php?devid=421>
There are a few on eBay, but be careful. Many were previous on rental
and cannot be activated.

However, as I recall, the speeds went from 90Mbps down to about 60Mbps
down simply by switching from a modem-to-laptop wired connection to a
modem-to-router-to-lapop-wireless connection.

That's a huge drop in speed (measured at speedtest.comcast.net).

Is that normal to lose 30 Mbps just by switching from wired directly to
wireless?

Probably. I say probably because I don't have any idea what the kids
have for equipment other than the router. I also don't know if
they're connecting on 2.4 or 5Ghz.

60 Mbits/sec throughput suggests that they're doing 64-QAM if they're
on a 20 MHz channel.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ac#Theoretical>
The problem is that the router should be capable of shoveling data at
a much greater rate. For example, the performance graphs show much
higher than 60 Mbits/sec wireless speed on 5Ghz:
<http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/images/stories/wireless/ac1200_roundup/ac1200_router_roundup_5_throughput_vs_attenuation.jpg>
but much slower on 2.4GHz:
<http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/images/stories/wireless/ac1200_roundup/ac1200_router_roundup_24_throughput_vs_attenuation.jpg>
My guess is that 60 Mbits/sec is on the low side of reasonable for
2.4GHz in the presence of interference from other routers in the dorm.

NOTE: I just realized while writing this that we never checked the wired
speed directly out of the router, which I'll ask the kids to do for me.

I also had a short list of tests using Iperf and Jperf for them to
try.

Incidentally, my fabulous DSL downloads at 1.2 Mbits/sec and you're
complaining about losing 30 Mbits/sec. I'm jealous and you'll get no
sympathy from me.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[ceg]

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 23:10:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Probably. I say probably because I don't have any idea what the kids
have for equipment other than the router. I also don't know if
they're connecting on 2.4 or 5Ghz.

It was a cheap Costco $500 Win8 laptop that apparently only seems to
have 2.4GHz (I didn't see the 5GHz AP show up).

All we did was go to speedtest.comcast.net

 

[ceg]

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 23:10:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

My guess is that 60 Mbits/sec is on the low side of reasonable for
2.4GHz in the presence of interference from other routers in the dorm.

I must admit, I had never seen so many access points in one place.
The screen was *filled* with access points!

 

[ceg]

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 23:10:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Incidentally, my fabulous DSL downloads at 1.2 Mbits/sec and you're
complaining about losing 30 Mbits/sec. I'm jealous and you'll get no
sympathy from me.

Likewise, the kids, at school, on cable, are doing much better than I am,
on WISP, at home, pointing at an antenna miles away in the mountains.

 

[ceg]

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 01:57:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> Sure, your kids are special and won't do anything while away at school.

I think they watch "Desperate Housewives" on the net. At least I saw that
as one of the web sites they visited.

 

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 8/16/2015 1:35 AM, ceg wrote:

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 19:57:19 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Probably not. The extra wirless speed is if your kids are copying or
moving massive files via wireless. Hopefully, that's not happening.

These are good kids.
They're not like I am.

The worst they do is *ask* me to get them a movie or two!

(jk)

Sure, your kids are special and won't do anything while away at school.

 

[ceg]

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 19:57:19 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Probably not. The extra wirless speed is if your kids are copying or
moving massive files via wireless. Hopefully, that's not happening.

These are good kids.
They're not like I am.

The worst they do is *ask* me to get them a movie or two!

(jk)

 

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 8/15/2015 7:11 PM, ceg wrote:

Only question left is whether the Costco router is worth it for just two
kids sharing an Internet connection away at school.

Sure, half the dorm will be downloading the latest movies and porn clips.

 

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 06:18:00 +0000 (UTC), ceg
<curt.guldenschuh@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 01:57:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Sure, your kids are special and won't do anything while away at school.

I think they watch "Desperate Housewives" on the net. At least I saw that
as one of the web sites they visited.

One of the nice features that browsers have now is a privacy viewing
setting that does not save any tracks.

But none of that matters since your kids are so well behaved. Not
like the kids and grandkids I have.

 

[devnull]

On 08/16/2015 06:33 AM, ceg wrote:

Is that normal to lose 30 Mbps just by switching from wired directly to
wireless?

In my situation, yes.
And it was easier for me to install some network jacks than to deal with wifi's idiosyncrasies.

 

[devnull]

On 08/16/2015 02:47 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 8/15/2015 7:11 PM, ceg wrote:


Only question left is whether the Costco router is worth it for just two
kids sharing an Internet connection away at school.


Sure, half the dorm will be downloading the latest movies and porn clips.

You mean "uploading", don't you. (A lot of porn is made in dorm rooms.)
Thank God I didn't have any daughters. ;-)

 

[sms]

On 8/15/2015 7:57 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 23:11:31 +0000 (UTC), ceg
curt.guldenschuh@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you Jeff Liebermann for being a technical wiz-kid genius!

Y'er welcome. However, I'm no longer a kid and certainly have never
been a genius. Please keep your superlatives reasonable and knock off
the nymshifting.

I just want to shout out to Jeff Liebermann for suggesting the Costco
cable modem (Motorola/Arris SB6141) for about $85 out the door, and again
thanks go to Jeff for suggesting I ask for a discount on the Comcast $50
"installation fee".

I certainly suggested buying the SB6141 at Costco, but I don't believe
it was me that suggested negotiating the installation fee. At the

<snip>

Comcast always seems to charge the $50 then waits for the customer to
call to argue about it. Probably many don't call.

I also got the Motorola modem at Costco and did a self-install and
initially was charged the installation fee.

The problem I had was with getting them to install a drop, with RG6,
from the pole. I told them I needed a drop because the old drop, which I
had never used, was RG59. The first three trucks they sent were
unprepared to do a new drop. Finally I used a tree trimmer to cut down
the RG59 so there was no old drop there to confuse them, and then they
were able to put in a new drop.

 

[ceg]

On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 01:53:29 -0700, sms wrote:

Comcast always seems to charge the $50 then waits for the customer to
call to argue about it. Probably many don't call.

I also got the Motorola modem at Costco and did a self-install and
initially was charged the installation fee.

The problem I had was with getting them to install a drop, with RG6,
from the pole. I told them I needed a drop because the old drop, which I
had never used, was RG59. The first three trucks they sent were
unprepared to do a new drop. Finally I used a tree trimmer to cut down
the RG59 so there was no old dr

That brings up a good question which I didn't know the answer to.

Being a cheapskate, I bought my coax cable from the Goodwill for a buck.

I know there are different impedances for coax cable, but I didn't know
what letting to look for on the Goodwill coax cables.

So, the one I bought said "CATV" but I don't know if that's the right
cable.

Is it?

 

[ceg]

On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:28:22 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

To check speed one has to use same server at busiest time of the day
like 10 in the morning. I use Oookla speedtest.net. I you have a router
and use QoS, it'll affect speed, bit less than what it should be.

We should probably list the various servers.
I'll make a start, but this is just from memory.

1. speedtest.net
2. speedtest.comcast.net
3. speakeasy.net/speedtest
4. ?

 

[ceg]

On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:28:22 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

To check speed one has to use same server at busiest time of the day
like 10 in the morning. I use Oookla speedtest.net. I you have a router
and use QoS, it'll affect speed, bit less than what it should be.

I wonder if Jeff knows whether it's best to use the speed test supplied
by the ISP, since that's most likely to follow the same pipes?

That is, if I'm using AT&T, wouldn't the most accurate speed test be
one that AT&T supplies, which uses AT&T pipes?

Likewise, for comcast?