Test of ASCII waveform display

[Chris Carlen]

Hi:


This is an experiment to see if putting leading non-space characters
will make waveforms and ASCII diagrams appear correctly coming from my
newsreader and going to other newsreaders.

The following is a quadrature waveform. The transitions of B should
appear exactly 90 degrees leading the transitions of A. Also, the
numbers should be vertically centered in the 1/4 cycles.:


! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! ______ ______
! B: ______ ______
! ___ ______ ___
! A: ______ ______


Does this render correctly for all?


Here is a rendition with edges showing. Let's have a survey. Who
prefers the preceding vs. the following display?


! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! _____ _____
! B: _____/ \_____/ \
! __ _____ ___
! A: \_____/ \_____/


Thanks for input.


Good day!



--
_______________________________________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser/Optical Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov
NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and "BOGUS" from email address to reply.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:52:44 -0700, Chris Carlen
<crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov> wrote:

Hi:


This is an experiment to see if putting leading non-space characters
will make waveforms and ASCII diagrams appear correctly coming from my
newsreader and going to other newsreaders.

The following is a quadrature waveform. The transitions of B should
appear exactly 90 degrees leading the transitions of A. Also, the
numbers should be vertically centered in the 1/4 cycles.:


! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! ______ ______
! B: ______ ______
! ___ ______ ___
! A: ______ ______


Does this render correctly for all?


Here is a rendition with edges showing. Let's have a survey. Who
prefers the preceding vs. the following display?


! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! _____ _____
! B: _____/ \_____/ \
! __ _____ ___
! A: \_____/ \_____/


Thanks for input.


Good day!

I prefer the second version.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Tim Wescott]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:52:44 -0700, Chris Carlen
crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov> wrote:


Hi:


This is an experiment to see if putting leading non-space characters
will make waveforms and ASCII diagrams appear correctly coming from my
newsreader and going to other newsreaders.

The following is a quadrature waveform. The transitions of B should
appear exactly 90 degrees leading the transitions of A. Also, the
numbers should be vertically centered in the 1/4 cycles.:


! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! ______ ______
! B: ______ ______
! ___ ______ ___
! A: ______ ______


Does this render correctly for all?


Here is a rendition with edges showing. Let's have a survey. Who
prefers the preceding vs. the following display?


! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! _____ _____
! B: _____/ \_____/ \
! __ _____ ___
! A: \_____/ \_____/


Thanks for input.


Good day!


I prefer the second version.

...Jim Thompson

It's more honest. Never trust a data sheet with sharp edges on the
transitions...

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:18:07 -0700, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com>
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:52:44 -0700, Chris Carlen
crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov> wrote:


Hi:


This is an experiment to see if putting leading non-space characters
will make waveforms and ASCII diagrams appear correctly coming from my
newsreader and going to other newsreaders.

The following is a quadrature waveform. The transitions of B should
appear exactly 90 degrees leading the transitions of A. Also, the
numbers should be vertically centered in the 1/4 cycles.:


! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! ______ ______
! B: ______ ______
! ___ ______ ___
! A: ______ ______


Does this render correctly for all?


Here is a rendition with edges showing. Let's have a survey. Who
prefers the preceding vs. the following display?


! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! _____ _____
! B: _____/ \_____/ \
! __ _____ ___
! A: \_____/ \_____/


Thanks for input.


Good day!


I prefer the second version.

...Jim Thompson

It's more honest. Never trust a data sheet with sharp edges on the
transitions...

And it helps the youngsters understand that there are indeed
indeterminate regions of digital waveforms.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:52:44 -0700, Chris Carlen
<crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov> wrote:

Hi:


This is an experiment to see if putting leading non-space characters
will make waveforms and ASCII diagrams appear correctly coming from my
newsreader and going to other newsreaders.

The following is a quadrature waveform. The transitions of B should
appear exactly 90 degrees leading the transitions of A. Also, the
numbers should be vertically centered in the 1/4 cycles.:


! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! ______ ______
! B: ______ ______
! ___ ______ ___
! A: ______ ______


Does this render correctly for all?


Here is a rendition with edges showing. Let's have a survey. Who
prefers the preceding vs. the following display?


! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! _____ _____
! B: _____/ \_____/ \
! __ _____ ___
! A: \_____/ \_____/


Thanks for input.


Good day!

Edges!

This is OK, too...

! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! ______ ______
! B: ______| |______|

John

 

[Tony Williams]

In article <dendsc02t5n@news3.newsguy.com>,
Chris Carlen <crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov> wrote:

! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! ______ ______
! B: ______ ______
! ___ ______ ___
! A: ______ ______

! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! _____ _____
! B: _____/ \_____/ \
! __ _____ ___
! A: \_____/ \_____/

Everything lines up correctly now, on both my newsreaders.

The second waveform is better.

--
Tony Williams.

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Chris Carlen
<crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov> wrote (in
<dendsc02t5n@news3.newsguy.com&gt about 'Test of ASCII waveform display',
on Fri, 26 Aug 2005:

! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! _____ _____
! B: _____/ \_____/ \
! __ _____ ___
! A: \_____/ \_____/

That's better than the other, but why not:

! _____ _____
! B: _____! !_____! !
! __ _____ ___
! A: !_____! !_____!

Actually, these days you can probably use | (shift-\) instead of !.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
If everything has been designed, a god designed evolution by natural selection.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Ol' Duffer]

In article <dendsc02t5n@news3.newsguy.com>,
crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov says...

This is an experiment to see if putting leading non-space characters
will make waveforms and ASCII diagrams appear correctly coming from my
newsreader and going to other newsreaders.

The key is for both you and the person on the receiving end to
use the same font, and there's no way for you to control that.
Typically, the sender will use a non-proportional font (Courier)
to ensure the widest compatibility, and leave it to the receiver
to configure his reader accordingly.

Leading non-space characters do not help. They either both look
wrong, or both are fine depending on the font I select.

 

[Chris Carlen]

John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Chris Carlen
crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov> wrote (in
dendsc02t5n@news3.newsguy.com&gt about 'Test of ASCII waveform display',
on Fri, 26 Aug 2005:
! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! _____ _____
! B: _____/ \_____/ \
! __ _____ ___
! A: \_____/ \_____/


That's better than the other, but why not:

! _____ _____
! B: _____! !_____! !
! __ _____ ___
! A: !_____! !_____!

Actually, these days you can probably use | (shift-\) instead of !.

I'm growing fond of the slanted edges. They are actually the most
realistic, and look smooth too.



--
Good day!

________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov
NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and
"BOGUS" from email address to reply.

 

[mc]

It's a matter of fixed-pitch versus variable-pitch fonts. Unless you send
in HTML, you can't control the font that the other person uses to view your
diagrams.

In a fixed-pitch font such as Courier, all characters are the same width.
In a variable-pitch font, some letters are much wider than others (e.g., M
versus l).


"Chris Carlen" <crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov> wrote in message
news:dendsc02t5n@news3.newsguy.com...

Hi:


This is an experiment to see if putting leading non-space characters will
make waveforms and ASCII diagrams appear correctly coming from my
newsreader and going to other newsreaders.

The following is a quadrature waveform. The transitions of B should
appear exactly 90 degrees leading the transitions of A. Also, the numbers
should be vertically centered in the 1/4 cycles.:


! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! ______ ______
! B: ______ ______
! ___ ______ ___
! A: ______ ______


Does this render correctly for all?


Here is a rendition with edges showing. Let's have a survey. Who prefers
the preceding vs. the following display?


! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! _____ _____
! B: _____/ \_____/ \
! __ _____ ___
! A: \_____/ \_____/


Thanks for input.


Good day!



--
_______________________________________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser/Optical Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov
NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and "BOGUS" from email address to reply.

 

[John Fields]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 18:00:46 -0400, "mc" <mc_no_spam@uga.edu> wrote:

It's a matter of fixed-pitch versus variable-pitch fonts. Unless you send
in HTML, you can't control the font that the other person uses to view your
diagrams.

In a fixed-pitch font such as Courier, all characters are the same width.
In a variable-pitch font, some letters are much wider than others (e.g., M
versus l).

---
Actually, no. The "M" is still wider than the "l", but the space
into which they're placed, in a non-proportional font, is the same
width for each of them.

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[Chris Carlen]

Ol' Duffer wrote:

In article <dendsc02t5n@news3.newsguy.com>,
crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov says...
This is an experiment to see if putting leading non-space characters
will make waveforms and ASCII diagrams appear correctly coming from my
newsreader and going to other newsreaders.

The key is for both you and the person on the receiving end to
use the same font, and there's no way for you to control that.
Typically, the sender will use a non-proportional font (Courier)
to ensure the widest compatibility, and leave it to the receiver
to configure his reader accordingly.

Leading non-space characters do not help. They either both look
wrong, or both are fine depending on the font I select.

That's not what has been revealed recently, which is that some
newsreaders may add or subtract leading spaces from a line. Thus, to
ensure that doesn't happen, leading non-space chars prevent this.



--
Good day!

________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov
NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and
"BOGUS" from email address to reply.

 

[Chris Carlen]

mc wrote:

It's a matter of fixed-pitch versus variable-pitch fonts. Unless you send
in HTML, you can't control the font that the other person uses to view your
diagrams.

It is considered bad form to email and post to USENET using HTML. Thus,
I don't do that.

The person reading the post *can* control the font used to display their
text. It is the obvious choice to use a fixed-width font to view
newsgroups in which people post ASCII diagrams.





--
Good day!

________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov
NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and
"BOGUS" from email address to reply.

 

[Arie de Muynck]

"Chris Carlen" <crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov> wrote in message
news:dendsc02t5n@news3.newsguy.com...

Hi:


! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! ______ ______
! B: ______ ______
! ___ ______ ___
! A: ______ ______


Does this render correctly for all?


Here is a rendition with edges showing. Let's have a survey. Who
prefers the preceding vs. the following display?


! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! _____ _____
! B: _____/ \_____/ \
! __ _____ ___
! A: \_____/ \_____/

Verison 2 definitely: I want explicit edges in the diagrams, so they can be
numbered too.

Sometimes I use my own "shorthand", where I use | for the original timing
signal edges (the sharp clock edges) and \ / or X for the derived signals or
results. This gives a more compact text:

A B CCC D E F GGG
___ ___ ___ ___
CLK __| |____| |____| |____| |__
___ _____________ __________
ADDR ___XXXXX_____________XXXXX__________
____________________
ENA ____________/_/_/ \_\__
_______________
DATA ------------<XXXXX_______________X>-

This shows the ADDR and ENA lines changing as a result of the positive clock
edge, with a timing uncertainty suggested by a slanting edge (or when
longer, multiple edges). Also, it is easier to show tri-state (---) and
undefined (XXX). Letters are used to indicate events or timing zones.
Normally I can stay within 26...

Regards,
Arie de Muynck

 

[Chris Carlen]

Arie de Muynck wrote:

Sometimes I use my own "shorthand", where I use | for the original timing
signal edges (the sharp clock edges) and \ / or X for the derived signals or
results. This gives a more compact text:

A B CCC D E F GGG
___ ___ ___ ___
CLK __| |____| |____| |____| |__
___ _____________ __________
ADDR ___XXXXX_____________XXXXX__________
____________________
ENA ____________/_/_/ \_\__
_______________
DATA ------------<XXXXX_______________X>-

Nice!

Thanks for the input.


Good day!




--
_____________________
Christopher R. Carlen
crobc@bogus-remove-me.sbcglobal.net
SuSE 9.1 Linux 2.6.5

 

[Tim Hubberstey]

Chris Carlen wrote:

Hi:


This is an experiment to see if putting leading non-space characters
will make waveforms and ASCII diagrams appear correctly coming from my
newsreader and going to other newsreaders.

The following is a quadrature waveform. The transitions of B should
appear exactly 90 degrees leading the transitions of A. Also, the
numbers should be vertically centered in the 1/4 cycles.:


! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! ______ ______
! B: ______ ______
! ___ ______ ___
! A: ______ ______


Does this render correctly for all?


Here is a rendition with edges showing. Let's have a survey. Who
prefers the preceding vs. the following display?


! 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
! _____ _____
! B: _____/ \_____/ \
! __ _____ ___
! A: \_____/ \_____/


Thanks for input.

I use edges myself, either "/" "\" or "|", depending on how accurate I
want to be. Slashes are more accurate but "|" are easier to work with,
especially if you need to modify the diagram. I use ASCII timing
diagrams (and schematics) extensively in my HDL code for embedded
documentation.

If you want to be sure spacing isn't a problem, do it all on one line:

B: ______------______------
A: ___------______------___

It's not as easy to read and, if you stick to "printable" ASCII, your
transition types are limited, but the spacing will always be right.

I've found that the following characters render properly in many
monospaced fonts and make 1-line waveforms quite readable:

"1" = Ż = hex AF
"Z" = ˇ = hex B7
Active clock edge = ° = hex B0
Don't care = × = hex D7

Ordinary characters:
"0" = _
driven but undefined = -
edges = \ and /
multi-bit transition = X

As an example, here is a segment of one of my PCI-X diagrams:

DEVSEL type ° ° ° ° "A" ° "B" ° "C" ° °
Trdy# ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ\______\______\_______________
° ° ° ° ° ° ° °
AD ˇˇ< ad X at X××××××X D0 X D1 X D2 >
AD ˇˇ< ad X at X××××××X D0 X D1 >
AD ˇˇ< ad X at X××××××X D0 X D1 >
° ° ° ° ° ° ° °
C/BE# ˇˇ< cmd X sz >ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
Frame# ˇˇ\__________________________________________________
Irdy# ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ\_____________________________
° ° ° ° ° ° ° °
Devsel#_i ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ\Ż_Ż_Ż_\Ż_Ż_Ż_\______________

If this doesn't look like a timing diagram, we'll know that it doesn't
work for email.

My text editor of choice (NEdit) can do rectangular copy/paste/drag, and
I find I can do diagrams and pictures almost as quickly as with a
dedicated tool. I have also defined a highlight pattern for the editor
and I find the result to be very readable. See a.b.s.e for a screen
capture of the above example.
--
Tim Hubberstey, P.Eng. . . . . . Hardware/Software Consulting Engineer
Marmot Engineering . . . . . . . VHDL, ASICs, FPGAs, embedded systems
Vancouver, BC, Canada . . . . . . . . . . . http://www.marmot-eng.com

 

[Terry Pinnell]

Tim Hubberstey <bogus@bogusname.com> wrote:


[snip]

As an example, here is a segment of one of my PCI-X diagrams:

DEVSEL type ° ° ° ° "A" ° "B" ° "C" ° °
Trdy# ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ\______\______\_______________
° ° ° ° ° ° ° °
AD ˇˇ< ad X at X××××××X D0 X D1 X D2
AD ˇˇ< ad X at X××××××X D0 X D1
AD ˇˇ< ad X at X××××××X D0 X D1
° ° ° ° ° ° ° °
C/BE# ˇˇ< cmd X sz >ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
Frame# ˇˇ\__________________________________________________
Irdy# ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ\_____________________________
° ° ° ° ° ° ° °
Devsel#_i ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ\Ż_Ż_Ż_\Ż_Ż_Ż_\______________

If this doesn't look like a timing diagram, we'll know that it doesn't
work for email.

My text editor of choice (NEdit) can do rectangular copy/paste/drag, and
I find I can do diagrams and pictures almost as quickly as with a
dedicated tool. I have also defined a highlight pattern for the editor
and I find the result to be very readable. See a.b.s.e for a screen
capture of the above example.

I hadn't been to abse for a week or two, but after just now doing what
I thought was a full download of recent messages I couldn't find your
screen capture. Could you give message reference please?

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK