Tesla is fast...

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 19:43:51 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:18:45 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.
I don\'t think the Tesla (50kWh) battery cost below $5000.

Probably not but the battery costs are declining and like likely to go further (albeit with blips caused by current world problems)

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134307_report-ev-battery-costs-might-rise-in-2022

kw

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 19:53:02 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2022 03:43:47 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:18:45 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.

I don\'t think the Tesla (50kWh) battery cost below $5000.
Nothing made by Tesla is a sensible price, I\'m sure Musk is related to Jobs. It\'s the same Apple tactics.

Nobody is forcing you to buy one.

kw

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 21 May 2022 18:35:10 +0100, Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

lørdag den 21. maj 2022 kl. 19.02.46 UTC+2 skrev Commander Kinsey:
On Sat, 21 May 2022 17:26:37 +0100, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

On 05/21/2022 08:15 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 16 May 2022 16:16:23 +0100, Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 9:58:52 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:09:18 +0100, whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:26:57 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey
wrote:

As Lithium runs out, the prices will skyrocket.

Nonsense, but of course someone selling you an investment
opportunity won\'t tell
you that.

Lithium is mined from dried-up sea beds, because some of the dried
salts have useful
concentrations of that element There\'s lots of those, and the most
economic are being
mined now, while the next-most-economic will be mined in a decade.
The metal isn\'t
rare, and the price will disappoint investors who buy today at a
big premium.
I quote er.... you, with \"the most economic are being mined now\" -
it\'s gonna get very hard soon to mine it, so the price will shoot up.

How can one person be so stupid? When stupidity was being handed out,
I think he took the ration of a hundred others.

Whoosh! So again.... \"the most economic are being mined now\", so what
does that make the others..... er.... let me see.... LESS economic..

The question is how less economic.
The amount of Lithium required to run every single car in the world is enormous. It\'s a rare element.

Lithium is not a rare element ....

The approximate amount of lithium on earth is between 30 and 90 million tons.

Cars require 20 million tons. Rather close.... so can we really mine two thirds of it, and then recycle 100% of that forever more?

 

[server]

On Sat, 21 May 2022 10:35:10 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

lørdag den 21. maj 2022 kl. 19.02.46 UTC+2 skrev Commander Kinsey:
On Sat, 21 May 2022 17:26:37 +0100, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

On 05/21/2022 08:15 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 16 May 2022 16:16:23 +0100, Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 9:58:52 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:09:18 +0100, whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:26:57 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey
wrote:

As Lithium runs out, the prices will skyrocket.

Nonsense, but of course someone selling you an investment
opportunity won\'t tell
you that.

Lithium is mined from dried-up sea beds, because some of the dried
salts have useful
concentrations of that element There\'s lots of those, and the most
economic are being
mined now, while the next-most-economic will be mined in a decade.
The metal isn\'t
rare, and the price will disappoint investors who buy today at a
big premium.
I quote er.... you, with \"the most economic are being mined now\" -
it\'s gonna get very hard soon to mine it, so the price will shoot up.

How can one person be so stupid? When stupidity was being handed out,
I think he took the ration of a hundred others.

Whoosh! So again.... \"the most economic are being mined now\", so what
does that make the others..... er.... let me see.... LESS economic.

The question is how less economic.
The amount of Lithium required to run every single car in the world is enormous. It\'s a rare element.

Lithium is not a rare element ....

I\'ve always thought it strange and wonderful that elements are so
nicely concentrated in heaps for us. I could imagine a planet where
everything is uniformly mixed and things like gold, uranium, iron,
copper, aluminum, lithium, rare earths, and helium are hard to
separate.

Natural gas and oil are nice too.



--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 21 May 2022 19:14:40 +0100, <jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 21 May 2022 10:35:10 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

lørdag den 21. maj 2022 kl. 19.02.46 UTC+2 skrev Commander Kinsey:
On Sat, 21 May 2022 17:26:37 +0100, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

On 05/21/2022 08:15 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 16 May 2022 16:16:23 +0100, Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 9:58:52 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:09:18 +0100, whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:26:57 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey
wrote:

As Lithium runs out, the prices will skyrocket.

Nonsense, but of course someone selling you an investment
opportunity won\'t tell
you that.

Lithium is mined from dried-up sea beds, because some of the dried
salts have useful
concentrations of that element There\'s lots of those, and the most
economic are being
mined now, while the next-most-economic will be mined in a decade.
The metal isn\'t
rare, and the price will disappoint investors who buy today at a
big premium.
I quote er.... you, with \"the most economic are being mined now\" -
it\'s gonna get very hard soon to mine it, so the price will shoot up.

How can one person be so stupid? When stupidity was being handed out,
I think he took the ration of a hundred others.

Whoosh! So again.... \"the most economic are being mined now\", so what
does that make the others..... er.... let me see.... LESS economic.

The question is how less economic.
The amount of Lithium required to run every single car in the world is enormous. It\'s a rare element.

Lithium is not a rare element ....

I\'ve always thought it strange and wonderful that elements are so
nicely concentrated in heaps for us. I could imagine a planet where
everything is uniformly mixed and things like gold, uranium, iron,
copper, aluminum, lithium, rare earths, and helium are hard to
separate.

Natural gas and oil are nice too.

I guess it depends if the planet was formed from a big glob or from several different kinds of globs that smashed together.

Apparently some elements are found in most concentrated form in landfill sites.

 

[whit3rd]

On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 10:50:36 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Sat, 21 May 2022 18:35:10 +0100, Lasse Langwadt Christensen <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

Lithium is not a rare element ....

The approximate amount of lithium on earth is between 30 and 90 million tons.

Huh? In elemental composition of the Earth\'s crust, Li is twenty-fifth most common.
See here, for a more complete breakdown

<https://www.quantumscape.com/resources/blog/the-advantages-of-lithium-metal-anodes/>

The only way to make a finding of 90 million tons is to ignore every rock that hasn\'t
been declared part of a current Lithium mining claim, i.e. assume only today\'s lithium mines
contain all the Earth\'s lithium element. That\'s a world-size error.

 

[server]

On Sat, 21 May 2022 12:13:19 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 10:50:36 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2022 18:35:10 +0100, Lasse Langwadt Christensen <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

Lithium is not a rare element ....

The approximate amount of lithium on earth is between 30 and 90 million tons.

Huh? In elemental composition of the Earth\'s crust, Li is twenty-fifth most common.
See here, for a more complete breakdown

https://www.quantumscape.com/resources/blog/the-advantages-of-lithium-metal-anodes/

The only way to make a finding of 90 million tons is to ignore every rock that hasn\'t
been declared part of a current Lithium mining claim, i.e. assume only today\'s lithium mines
contain all the Earth\'s lithium element. That\'s a world-size error.

The problem isn\'t abundance, it\'s concentration.

There\'s lots of lithium in the ocean, 0.2 PPM, too expensive to
extract.



--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 11:58:52 AM UTC+10, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:09:18 +0100, whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:26:57 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

As Lithium runs out, the prices will skyrocket.

Nonsense, but of course someone selling you an investment opportunity won\'t tell
you that.

Lithium is mined from dried-up sea beds, because some of the dried salts have useful
concentrations of that element There\'s lots of those, and the most economic are being
mined now, while the next-most-economic will be mined in a decade. The metal isn\'t
rare, and the price will disappoint investors who buy today at a big premium.

I quote er.... you, with \"the most economic are being mined now\" - it\'s gonna get very hard soon to mine it, so the price will shoot up.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/the-rush-for-white-gold-how-electric-cars-are-driving-new-australian-lithium-mines-20211215-p59hw3.html

Apparently Australia has some 30% of the world\'s known lithium deposits, and new mines are opening up rapidly. The politicians are hoping that we can refine more of what we dig up here before we ship it overseas, and it\'s likely to happen.

The most economic mines were dirt cheap, but the new mines look like slightly more remote versions of the same thing, and anything big - like Australia\'s iron mines - include the cost of a railway line to the nearest port.

When I was growing up in Tasmania, in a port town on the coast the railway line to the local silver/lead/zinc mine run past our house (or rather behind the houses on the other side of the road. It wasn\'t a big mine but it wasn\'t a long railway line either.

--
Bill Sloman. Sydney

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 3:25:13 PM UTC+10, rbowman wrote:

On 05/15/2022 02:22 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 00:04:22 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
...
Then there is the issue that you are only talking about purchase price, not the life cycle cost. That\'s the talk of an ignoramus.
If you want to go that route, electric cars have that annoying habit of needing a new battery.

No they don\'t - no more than conventional cars need new engines.

My 1986 F150 doesn\'t need a new engine. Do you really think a battery is going to last 36 years?

How may miles have you put on it? If you had only bought it because you had a very small penis, it might not have done very many at all.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 16 May 2022 06:25:06 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On 05/15/2022 02:22 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 00:04:22 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
...
Then there is the issue that you are only talking about purchase price, not the life cycle cost. That\'s the talk of an ignoramus.
If you want to go that route, electric cars have that annoying habit of needing a new battery.

No they don\'t - no more than conventional cars need new engines.

My 1986 F150 doesn\'t need a new engine. Do you really think a battery is
going to last 36 years?

They don\'t even last beyond 5 years.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 15 May 2022 16:42:24 +0100, StupidAs StupidGet <buildbetterbilly@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:55:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:04:30 PM UTC+10, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 1:26:57 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:46:22 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 19:43:51 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:18:45 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.
I don\'t think the Tesla (50kWh) battery cost below $5000.

Probably not but the battery costs are declining and like likely to go further (albeit with blips caused by current world problems)

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134307_report-ev-battery-costs-might-rise-in-2022
As Lithium runs out, the prices will skyrocket. And what world problems? There aren\'t any real ones, just ones caused by silly governments.
This guy just digs himself in a hole, deeper and deeper, showing his extreme ignorance.

He reminds me of DLUNU or whatever goofy name the guy goes by. I think people call him \"always wrong\". I think there\'s a new owner of that title.
Decadent Linux User Numero Uno has his vices, but ignorance isn\'t one of them. Krw liked to label him \"always wrong\" but the tittle fitted krw a whole lot better.

Don\'t know if he is \"always wrong\", but he is \"always foul month nasty scumbag\".

Sissy.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 5:07:16 PM UTC+10, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2022 06:25:06 +0100, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

On 05/15/2022 02:22 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 00:04:22 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
...
Then there is the issue that you are only talking about purchase price, not the life cycle cost. That\'s the talk of an ignoramus.
If you want to go that route, electric cars have that annoying habit of needing a new battery.

No they don\'t - no more than conventional cars need new engines.

My 1986 F150 doesn\'t need a new engine. Do you really think a battery is
going to last 36 years?

They don\'t even last beyond 5 years.

Modern batteries are expected to do better - between ten and twenty years. This is based on laboratory testing, rather than reporting on owners experience, for fairly obvious reasons, but the science is should be reliable.

https://blog.evbox.com/uk-en/ev-battery-longevity

Some manufacturers guarantee at least eight years.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 15 May 2022 14:04:24 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 1:26:57 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:46:22 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 19:43:51 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:18:45 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.
I don\'t think the Tesla (50kWh) battery cost below $5000.

Probably not but the battery costs are declining and like likely to go further (albeit with blips caused by current world problems)

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134307_report-ev-battery-costs-might-rise-in-2022
As Lithium runs out, the prices will skyrocket. And what world problems? There aren\'t any real ones, just ones caused by silly governments.

This guy just digs himself in a hole, deeper and deeper, showing his extreme ignorance.

He reminds me of DLUNU or whatever goofy name the guy goes by. I think people call him \"always wrong\". I think there\'s a new owner of that title.

Thanks for proving you have no evidence to support your counter argument. You lose. Again.

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Friday, 20 May 2022 at 14:17:08 UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 11:44:43 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 1:38:46 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, ke...@designs.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 12:10:26 UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
Using a jillion tiny cells makes a difference because if any of those cells
fail, the whole car explodes and kills the driver.
That is not true. The car is very unlikely to explode if a single cell fails. Even if multiple cells fail an explosion is also extremely unlikely.

From the NTHSA report - \"Lithium-ion Battery Safety Issues for Electric and Plug-in Hybrid Vehicles\".

\"Regarding the risk of electrochemical failure, the report concludes that the propensity and severity of fires and explosions from the accidental ignition of flammable electrolytic solvents used in Li-ion battery systems are anticipated to be somewhat comparable to or perhaps slightly less than those for gasoline or diesel vehicular fuels.\"
https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/documents/12848-lithiumionsafetyhybrids_101217-v3-tag.pdf

A cell can overheat under exceptional circumstances but a small cell may in actual fact be safer than larger ones as the energy of a single cell failure might be contained within its own steel container and not affect the rest of the battery to the point of failure. The fuse or other disconnect for the cell would electrically isolate the failed cell from the rest of the battery. If the cell breaches its own enclosure it could spread the failure to other cells.

kw
They can \"anticipate\" until the cows come home. What that boils down to is an uneducated guess. Until you have decades of data to analyze you are just blowing smoke. Just look at airline accidents; the B747 had decades of flight experience when TWA flight 800 exploded. And these planes undergo far more rigorous testing and evaluation than EVs do.
You would seem to be blowing smoke as much as anyone. In the case of TWA flight 800, a fatal airliner accident due to design or construction issues is a very infrequent thing. These causes are much easier to minimize failure rates than the operational issues.

The bottom line is lithium-ion batteries are proving to be very safe in BEVs. The failures rates are comparable to the failure rates of fossil fueled vehicles which do burst into flame spontaneously as well. We are simply less worried by the relatively infrequent incidents which are dwarfed by the accident rates of automobiles caused by the operators. BEV issues get a lot of visibility, but are actually less likely.

You didn\'t anticipate that, did you?

--

Rick C.

-++-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
No comparison whatsoever - the average age of ICE cars is much older than EVs, and fires are much more frequent in old cars.

....
There is some validity to that but fires as a result of accident are actually more likely with newer cars.

Hyundai and Kia have had to recently recall close to half a million recently manufactured cars in the US because of the risk of the cars spontaneously catching fire when turned off - they even recommend parking them outside.

kw

 

[John Doe]

No point in arguing with Bozo the Australian troll. Bozo is a chronic liar
who cannot be reasoned with. Its fiction never ends.

--
Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

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On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 3:25:13 PM UTC+10, rbowman wrote:
On 05/15/2022 02:22 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 00:04:22 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
...
Then there is the issue that you are only talking about purchase price, not the life cycle cost. That\'s the talk of an ignoramus.
If you want to go that route, electric cars have that annoying habit of needing a new battery.

No they don\'t - no more than conventional cars need new engines.

My 1986 F150 doesn\'t need a new engine. Do you really think a battery is going to last 36 years?

How may miles have you put on it? If you had only bought it because you had a very small penis, it might not have done very many at all.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Saturday, 21 May 2022 at 09:02:01 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
....

there\'s no reason why they can\'t last like an ICE. The batteries in most BEVs are warrantied for 100,000 or more miles. Do you believe they are going to drop out of the car shortly after that?

You won\'t get that from a battery. No battery of any chemistry is of much use after 5 years, used a lot or not.

I guess my 4 1/2 year old Tesla is going to expire soon then.

> And I bet that \"warranty\" only covers the first user.

No - it\'s transferable.

kw

 

[John Doe]

Bozo is a chronic liar who cannot be reasoned with. Its fiction never ends.

--
Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

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Subject: Re: Tesla is fast
From: Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org
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Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:669021

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 1:59:20 PM UTC+10, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:06:28 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 10:36:15 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2022 03:18:40 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:
On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 08:38:18 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2022 07:32:34 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 9:38:46 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 12:58:47 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 7:34:43 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2022 02:46:24 +0100,...> wrote:
On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 15:42:36 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

snip

Range is just not an issue for most drivers although it does take a different mindset from the traditional don\'t fill up until empty approach of conventional vehicles.
It\'s a problem for every single driver. Most people do not drive 2 miles to the post office. By the way that range drops like a stone as the battery ages. My petrol tank doesn\'t age.

This is the silly talk we typically get from this poster.

What\'s silly about what I said? Most people will drive a long distance to commute, go on holiday, etc. And I assume you realise batteries don\'t retain the range they had at manufacture.

Battery life has improved rapidly in the past few years.

When the fuel cost is included electric cars competitive on price even with average cars like a Toyota Camry. The average new car cost in the US has risen to about $47,000. The cost of a base Tesla Model 3 is $46,990.

WTF are you doing paying $47K for a petrol car? I could buy 6 cars for that.

Except that it looks as if you couldn\'t by 6 new cars for that.

The absence of regular servicing is very convenient - I have had mine for just about 4 years and it hasn\'t been to the dealer once. Whereas my Prius has required 8 services in that time according to the manual.

Ignore the manual. Take the car to the garage when it goes wrong.

More idiot advice from the wanker.

The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.
Then I will wait another 10 years.

No, you should wait another hundred years. I want to see your grip on the steering wheel fossilized.

You don\'t seriously want self driving cars where you just act as a bored passenger do you?

Bore drivers don\'t pay enough attention either.

It is hard to find a more ignorant person, even in this group.

It\'s amazing you just insult me without any information explaining why you think your viewpoint is correct.

You\'ve been spelling out your ignorance here for weeks. It has been noticeable.

But then you are a religious fuckwit of the third degree. Hang on, won\'t you go to hell for being nasty to me?

Probably not. Warning other people about dangerous lunatics is a virtuous action.

You\'d better go say hail Marys or give the priest a blowjob or whatever nonsense goes on in there.

More bad advice.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Saturday, 21 May 2022 at 10:02:46 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
....

The amount of Lithium required to run every single car in the world is enormous. It\'s a rare element. Batteries need to be made of something else. Preferably something that doesn\'t quadruple the cost of the vehicle.
....

The amount of oil required to run every single car in the world is enormous. Oil is rare. We only have about 47 years left at current consumption rates.

Luckily we have over 150 years worth of lithium and we will probably come up with other chemistries that don\'t require it.

The other alkali metals are good candidates for use instead of lithium. Sodium in particular is plentiful and very easy to get.

Many EV car companies are already using Lithium iron phosphate cathodes to avoid the need for cobalt and nickel.

kw

 

[John Doe]

Bozo is a chronic liar who cannot be reasoned with. Its fiction never ends.

--
Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

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Subject: Re: Tesla is fast
From: Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org
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Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:668952

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 12:36:15 PM UTC+10, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2022 03:18:40 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <ke...@kjwdesign
s.com> wrote:

On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 08:38:18 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2022 07:32:34 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrot
e:

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 9:38:46 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wr
ote:
On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 12:58:47 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 7:34:43 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2022 02:46:24 +0100,...> wrote:

On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 15:42:36 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
...
Why are they needed? What problem are you trying to solve?

The problem frequently in the news where people\'s houses cat
ch fire due to a fault in a charger/torch/etc. Nickel batteries get very hot, Lithium ones explode in a fireball, setting everything around it alight. Liquid lithium at a few thousand degrees was once fired through someone\'s hands while typing on a laptop.

I seriously doubt there was any liquid lithium ejected from t
he burning battery. The lithium does not exist separately it is bound in the electrodes and there is less than a gram per 18650 cell.
Something hot and liquid came out.
The electrolyte is highly flammable and liquid or a paste tha
t could cause burns.
Could have been it, the point is people get burnt and surroundi
ng things catch fire. I\'ve even seen a video of someone falling down some concrete stairs outdoors in an icy winter, with his mobile phone in his back pocket, which erupted. These batteries are a piece of shit.
Do you think this feature is free?
The cost only adds 10% to the battery approximately.
I doubt it.

https://www.sanwulasers.com/product/18650

Unprotected: $15
Protected: $25
The difference in retail price hasn\'t got much to do with the cost
of the extra hardware, and everything to do with what the customer will pay for it.

Of course nobody is paying $15 per cell, or it would cost $100,000 f
or each Tesla. I would think that Tesla\'s cost of production is around $5 and protection circuit would be more like 30% to 40% in addition cost.
Unless it magically gets cheaper, Lithium batteries are not economical
ly viable for a car. You either have shit range, or the car costs triple what a petrol one would.

For some of portions of the car market the price is already competitive
and the other features are similar or better. For example the Tesla Model 3 vs a BMW 3 series - https://www.motor1.com/reviews/378302/bmw-3-series-tesla-model-3-comparison/.
A BMW is not a sensible car.

Neither is a Tesla.

Now please look at cars that cost what they\'re worth. The cheapest petrol
car brand new and the cheapest electric car brand new that go a decent mileage (a few hundred miles), are ¶œ6K and ¶œ25K. Electric is a nice idea, but it\'s nowhere near ready for the public to use.

Apples and pears.

Lithium Ion is not suitable for such a massive amount of power storage.

It works just fine. You want to redefine \"suitable\" to mean \"agreeable with Commander Kinsey\'s prejudices\".

Range is just not an issue for most drivers although it does take a dif
ferent mindset from the traditional don\'t fill up until empty approach of conventional vehicles.

It\'s a problem for every single driver. Most people do not drive 2 miles
to the post office. By the way that range drops like a stone as the battery ages. My petrol tank doesn\'t age.

Electric care batteries are ageing a lot more slowly than they used to. Commander Kinsey is behind the game. as usual.

When the fuel cost is included electric cars competitive on price even
with average cars like a Toyota Camry. The average new car cost in the US has risen to about $47,000. The cost of a base Tesla Model 3 is $46,990.

WTF are you doing paying $47K for a petrol car? I could buy 6 cars for th
at.

And would be silly enough to do it.

The absence of regular servicing is very convenient - I have had mine f
or just about 4 years and it hasn\'t been to the dealer once. Whereas my Prius has required 8 services in that time according to the manual.

Ignore the manual. Take the car to the garage when it goes wrong.

Commander Kinsey does take the ignorant half-wit approach to car maintenance.

The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues
to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.

Then I will wait another 10 years.

Probably not a wise choice, but Commander Kinsey clearly isn\'t wise.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[whit3rd]

On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 12:35:25 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sat, 21 May 2022 12:13:19 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com
wrote:

The only way to make a finding of 90 million tons is to ignore every rock that hasn\'t
been declared part of a current Lithium mining claim, i.e. assume only today\'s lithium mines
contain all the Earth\'s lithium element. That\'s a world-size error.

The problem isn\'t abundance, it\'s concentration.

There\'s lots of lithium in the ocean, 0.2 PPM, too expensive to
extract.

Yeah, the ocean is a dilute ore for lots of things. There\'s lots of ancient dead seas, though,
where lots of concentration happened, for free, eons ago. The \'economic\' place is always the
closest to mass transport and cheapest to extract. Other sites for mining that
aren\'t worth developing this year, will be ready when mine #1 empties.
Next year, a few dollars per ton of price hike won\'t bankrupt anyone.