Tektronix TDS540 doesn't start up anymore

D

David Bourgeois

Guest
Hi,

My TDS540 doesn't start anymore. When I switch power on and press the
ON/STBY button, the fan starts and panel light up. Then within 30 secs the
display should start but it doesn't do it anymore.
I bought it second hand last year and it had the problem already, but I
let it turned on for a couple of hours and then it finally started
normally, all tests passed. After that, it could take from 10 secs to a
few minutes to start. I noticed that sometimes I couldn't turn it off with
the ON/STBY button, I had to power it off from the mains switch.

I didn't power it on for a few months and now it doesn't start at all even
after 24hours powered on.

I found the service manual and followed the diagnostic procedures (low
voltage power supply is OK), and eventually ended up at the line saying
"replace the DRAM processor/display board". The display should be OK, when
I turn it on I have a flash (line that quickly expands on the screen). The
digit LCD on the DRAM board displays hex from '3' to 'E', not '1' to 'E'
as stated in the service manual.

It seems there is something like an initial check, can it be temperature?
I've read that electrolytic capacitors on these DSO leaks and should be
replaced. I checked mines and they didn't leak. Can this still be the
cause? Should I get a cooling spray or heat some parts of the board to
check if that makes any difference?

Thanks for any help.

David Bourgeois
 
"David Bourgeois" <david@jaguarondi.com> wrote in message
news:eek:p.ulft1uy4vcva2r@localhost...
Hi,

My TDS540 doesn't start anymore. When I switch power on and press the
ON/STBY button, the fan starts and panel light up. Then within 30 secs the
display should start but it doesn't do it anymore.
I bought it second hand last year and it had the problem already, but I
let it turned on for a couple of hours and then it finally started
normally, all tests passed. After that, it could take from 10 secs to a
few minutes to start. I noticed that sometimes I couldn't turn it off with
the ON/STBY button, I had to power it off from the mains switch.

I didn't power it on for a few months and now it doesn't start at all even
after 24hours powered on.

I found the service manual and followed the diagnostic procedures (low
voltage power supply is OK), and eventually ended up at the line saying
"replace the DRAM processor/display board". The display should be OK, when
I turn it on I have a flash (line that quickly expands on the screen). The
digit LCD on the DRAM board displays hex from '3' to 'E', not '1' to 'E'
as stated in the service manual.

It seems there is something like an initial check, can it be temperature?
I've read that electrolytic capacitors on these DSO leaks and should be
replaced. I checked mines and they didn't leak. Can this still be the
cause? Should I get a cooling spray or heat some parts of the board to
check if that makes any difference?

Thanks for any help.

David Bourgeois
Click to expand...
Those are the symptoms for bad electrolytics on virtually any reasonably
modern piece of electronics which employ a switch mode power supply - as I
think this item does. It's extremely common for switch mode power supplies
to refuse to restart after they've been left 'off-power' for a couple of
weeks whilst an owner is away on holiday, for instance. The only realistic
way to check electrolytics for this kind of failure, is to run over them all
with an ESR meter. This will quickly reveal any that are out of spec,
without having to remove them. Suspect any that are located close to
components which run hot, or show any signs of their tops bulging or
splitting. Changed one just today in my dear old mum's VCR. That too was
refusing to start up for several minutes from a full power off, and then
when it finally did, the display was locked and corrupt, due to the noise on
the rail from the failed filter cap.

Arfa
 
David Bourgeois wrote:

Hi,

My TDS540 doesn't start anymore. When I switch power on and press the
ON/STBY button, the fan starts and panel light up. Then within 30 secs
the display should start but it doesn't do it anymore.
I bought it second hand last year and it had the problem already, but I
let it turned on for a couple of hours and then it finally started
normally, all tests passed. After that, it could take from 10 secs to a
few minutes to start. I noticed that sometimes I couldn't turn it off
with the ON/STBY button, I had to power it off from the mains switch.

I didn't power it on for a few months and now it doesn't start at all
even after 24hours powered on.

I found the service manual and followed the diagnostic procedures (low
voltage power supply is OK), and eventually ended up at the line saying
"replace the DRAM processor/display board". The display should be OK,
when I turn it on I have a flash (line that quickly expands on the
screen). The digit LCD on the DRAM board displays hex from '3' to 'E',
not '1' to 'E' as stated in the service manual.

It seems there is something like an initial check, can it be temperature?
I've read that electrolytic capacitors on these DSO leaks and should be
replaced. I checked mines and they didn't leak. Can this still be the
cause? Should I get a cooling spray or heat some parts of the board to
check if that makes any difference?

Thanks for any help.

David Bourgeois
If that has the fluorescent type display, you may want to check the
Click to expand...
inverter for the hight voltage to the display..
if it's a LCD., it should have lamps and that also has an inverter
that can cause the same problem..

But I would look first at the inverter circuit. Aging crimps inside
of Electrolytic caps give for poor connection and generate ESR.
Switching supplies have issues with this because you'll have
in effect a soft response on the cap and it may not start or not
generate the desired effect in over all performance of the circuit
depending of where it's located.

It's not common to have ESR meters lying around, even though the
actual construction of one is very simple and low part count.

An alternative would be if you have a square wave generator and a
second scope lying around.
Place a low value R from the output of the generator that fits with
in the specs of the unit, like a 50 ohm for example. What you want to
do is make a L network, R coming from the generator in series and the
DUT (device under test) in this case a suspected Cap, to the other end
of the R then to common. Attach a Scope across the Cap and monitor the
wave being generated. What you're looking for is the base line of the
square wave. Adjust the output frequency of the generator so that you
can see a full charge on the cap before it reaches the right side of the
ON duty cycle of the square wave.

When the duty cycle reverts to off, you should see a near perfect
0.0 volts. This is because the response time of the square wave is
fast enough to cause the cap to create near perfect 0 ohm condition
how ever, if there is internal issues with the cap, you'll see a non
base line effect or even noise generated at the initial skew point of
the wave..

years ago, I made up a test jig box that has a square wave generator
in it and employs an analog meter along with a scope signal so that I
could debug either way..
I used a bridge to detect the differential offset via 2 small caps
to take a reading only at the falling edge of the square wave. This
results would go into a sample and hold amp.

Have fun..


http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"
 
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:26:26 +0100, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

David Bourgeois wrote:

Hi,
My TDS540 doesn't start anymore. When I switch power on and press the
ON/STBY button, the fan starts and panel light up. Then within 30 secs
the display should start but it doesn't do it anymore.
I bought it second hand last year and it had the problem already, but
I let it turned on for a couple of hours and then it finally started
normally, all tests passed. After that, it could take from 10 secs to
a few minutes to start. I noticed that sometimes I couldn't turn it
off with the ON/STBY button, I had to power it off from the mains
switch.
I didn't power it on for a few months and now it doesn't start at all
even after 24hours powered on.
I found the service manual and followed the diagnostic procedures
(low voltage power supply is OK), and eventually ended up at the line
saying "replace the DRAM processor/display board". The display should
be OK, when I turn it on I have a flash (line that quickly expands on
the screen). The digit LCD on the DRAM board displays hex from '3' to
'E', not '1' to 'E' as stated in the service manual.
It seems there is something like an initial check, can it be
temperature?
I've read that electrolytic capacitors on these DSO leaks and should
be replaced. I checked mines and they didn't leak. Can this still be
the cause? Should I get a cooling spray or heat some parts of the
board to check if that makes any difference?
Thanks for any help.
David Bourgeois
If that has the fluorescent type display, you may want to check the
inverter for the hight voltage to the display..
if it's a LCD., it should have lamps and that also has an inverter
that can cause the same problem..

But I would look first at the inverter circuit. Aging crimps inside
of Electrolytic caps give for poor connection and generate ESR.
Switching supplies have issues with this because you'll have
in effect a soft response on the cap and it may not start or not
generate the desired effect in over all performance of the circuit
depending of where it's located.

It's not common to have ESR meters lying around, even though the
actual construction of one is very simple and low part count.

An alternative would be if you have a square wave generator and a
second scope lying around.
Place a low value R from the output of the generator that fits with
in the specs of the unit, like a 50 ohm for example. What you want to
do is make a L network, R coming from the generator in series and the
DUT (device under test) in this case a suspected Cap, to the other end
of the R then to common. Attach a Scope across the Cap and monitor the
wave being generated. What you're looking for is the base line of the
square wave. Adjust the output frequency of the generator so that you
can see a full charge on the cap before it reaches the right side of the
ON duty cycle of the square wave.

When the duty cycle reverts to off, you should see a near perfect
0.0 volts. This is because the response time of the square wave is
fast enough to cause the cap to create near perfect 0 ohm condition
how ever, if there is internal issues with the cap, you'll see a non
base line effect or even noise generated at the initial skew point of
the wave..

years ago, I made up a test jig box that has a square wave generator
in it and employs an analog meter along with a scope signal so that I
could debug either way..
I used a bridge to detect the differential offset via 2 small caps
to take a reading only at the falling edge of the square wave. This
results would go into a sample and hold amp.

Have fun..
Click to expand...
Thanks Arfa and Jamie. I'm going to get hands on an ESR meter or build
one. I'll try your procedure on one of those caps once I'll get my
oscilloscope back to life. I already feel better with the idea that fixing
it might not be that difficult after all. And I'll probably change all
those small electrolytic SMD caps as advised as I don't want to have to
deal with leaking caps in the future, it seems quite a job to clean.

Thanks again,

David.
 
"David Bourgeois" <david@jaguarondi.com> wrote in message
news:eek:p.ulf8xcs9vcva2r@localhost...
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:26:26 +0100, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

David Bourgeois wrote:

Hi,
My TDS540 doesn't start anymore. When I switch power on and press the
ON/STBY button, the fan starts and panel light up. Then within 30 secs
the display should start but it doesn't do it anymore.
I bought it second hand last year and it had the problem already, but I
let it turned on for a couple of hours and then it finally started
normally, all tests passed. After that, it could take from 10 secs to a
few minutes to start. I noticed that sometimes I couldn't turn it off
with the ON/STBY button, I had to power it off from the mains switch.
I didn't power it on for a few months and now it doesn't start at all
even after 24hours powered on.
I found the service manual and followed the diagnostic procedures (low
voltage power supply is OK), and eventually ended up at the line saying
"replace the DRAM processor/display board". The display should be OK,
when I turn it on I have a flash (line that quickly expands on the
screen). The digit LCD on the DRAM board displays hex from '3' to 'E',
not '1' to 'E' as stated in the service manual.
It seems there is something like an initial check, can it be
temperature?
I've read that electrolytic capacitors on these DSO leaks and should be
replaced. I checked mines and they didn't leak. Can this still be the
cause? Should I get a cooling spray or heat some parts of the board to
check if that makes any difference?
Thanks for any help.
David Bourgeois
If that has the fluorescent type display, you may want to check the
inverter for the hight voltage to the display..
if it's a LCD., it should have lamps and that also has an inverter
that can cause the same problem..

But I would look first at the inverter circuit. Aging crimps inside
of Electrolytic caps give for poor connection and generate ESR.
Switching supplies have issues with this because you'll have
in effect a soft response on the cap and it may not start or not
generate the desired effect in over all performance of the circuit
depending of where it's located.

It's not common to have ESR meters lying around, even though the
actual construction of one is very simple and low part count.

An alternative would be if you have a square wave generator and a
second scope lying around.
Place a low value R from the output of the generator that fits with
in the specs of the unit, like a 50 ohm for example. What you want to
do is make a L network, R coming from the generator in series and the
DUT (device under test) in this case a suspected Cap, to the other end
of the R then to common. Attach a Scope across the Cap and monitor the
wave being generated. What you're looking for is the base line of the
square wave. Adjust the output frequency of the generator so that you
can see a full charge on the cap before it reaches the right side of the
ON duty cycle of the square wave.

When the duty cycle reverts to off, you should see a near perfect
0.0 volts. This is because the response time of the square wave is
fast enough to cause the cap to create near perfect 0 ohm condition
how ever, if there is internal issues with the cap, you'll see a non
base line effect or even noise generated at the initial skew point of
the wave..

years ago, I made up a test jig box that has a square wave generator
in it and employs an analog meter along with a scope signal so that I
could debug either way..
I used a bridge to detect the differential offset via 2 small caps
to take a reading only at the falling edge of the square wave. This
results would go into a sample and hold amp.

Have fun..

Thanks Arfa and Jamie. I'm going to get hands on an ESR meter or build
one. I'll try your procedure on one of those caps once I'll get my
oscilloscope back to life. I already feel better with the idea that fixing
it might not be that difficult after all. And I'll probably change all
those small electrolytic SMD caps as advised as I don't want to have to
deal with leaking caps in the future, it seems quite a job to clean.

Thanks again,

David.
Click to expand...
The new version of Bob Parker's ESR meter, called the "Blue" is now
available from Anatek Corp if you're in the US. This is an updated version
of the original, and retains all the same features. It is fully automatic,
and a real value for money performer, especially if you take it in kit form.
I recently did a build and review article on it for a mag here in the UK,
and I can absolutely recommend it as an easy build, and excellent performer.
You'll wonder what you ever did without one.

http://www.anatekcorp.com/blueesr.htm

Arfa
 
On Nov 30, 8:50 pm, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
"David Bourgeois" <da...@jaguarondi.com> wrote in message

news:eek:p.ulf8xcs9vcva2r@localhost...



On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:26:26 +0100, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:

David Bourgeois wrote:

Hi,
 My TDS540 doesn't start anymore. When I switch power on and press the
ON/STBY button, the fan starts and panel light up. Then within 30 secs
the  display should start but it doesn't do it anymore.
I bought it second hand last year and it had the problem already, but  I
let it turned on for a couple of hours and then it finally started
normally, all tests passed. After that, it could take from 10 secs to  a
few minutes to start. I noticed that sometimes I couldn't turn it  off
with  the ON/STBY button, I had to power it off from the mains  switch.
 I didn't power it on for a few months and now it doesn't start at all
even  after 24hours powered on.
 I found the service manual and followed the diagnostic procedures  (low
voltage power supply is OK), and eventually ended up at the line  saying
"replace the DRAM processor/display board". The display should  be OK,
when  I turn it on I have a flash (line that quickly expands on  the
screen). The  digit LCD on the DRAM board displays hex from '3' to  'E',
not '1' to 'E'  as stated in the service manual.
 It seems there is something like an initial check, can it be
temperature?
I've read that electrolytic capacitors on these DSO leaks and should  be
replaced. I checked mines and they didn't leak. Can this still be  the
cause? Should I get a cooling spray or heat some parts of the  board to
check if that makes any difference?
 Thanks for any help.
 David Bourgeois
  If that has the fluorescent type display, you may want to check the
inverter for the hight voltage to the display..
   if it's a LCD., it should have lamps and that also has an inverter
that can cause the same problem..

   But I would look first at the inverter circuit. Aging crimps inside
of Electrolytic caps give for poor connection and generate ESR.
    Switching supplies have issues with this because you'll have
  in effect a soft response on the cap and it may not start or not
generate the desired effect in over all performance of the circuit
depending of where it's located.

    It's not common to have ESR meters lying around, even though the
actual construction of one is very simple and low part count.

     An alternative would be if you have a square wave generator and a
  second scope lying around.
     Place a low value R from the output of the generator that fits with
  in the specs of the unit, like a 50 ohm for example.  What you want to
  do is make a L network, R coming from the generator in series and the
  DUT (device under test) in this case a suspected Cap, to the other end
of the R then to common. Attach a Scope across the Cap and monitor the
  wave being generated. What you're looking for is the base line of the
  square wave. Adjust the output frequency of the generator so that you
can see a full charge on the cap before it reaches the right side of the
  ON duty cycle of the square wave.

     When the duty cycle reverts to off, you should see a near perfect
   0.0 volts. This is because the response time of the square wave is
fast enough to cause the cap to create near perfect 0 ohm condition
  how ever, if there is internal issues with the cap, you'll see a non
  base line effect or even noise generated at the initial skew point of
  the wave..

   years ago, I made up a test jig box that has a square wave generator
  in it and employs an analog meter along with a scope signal so that I
  could debug either way..
     I used a bridge to detect the differential offset via 2 small caps
  to take a reading only at the falling edge of the square wave. This
  results would go into a sample and hold amp.

   Have fun..

Thanks Arfa and Jamie. I'm going to get hands on an ESR meter or build
one. I'll try your procedure on one of those caps once I'll get my
oscilloscope back to life. I already feel better with the idea that fixing
it might not be that difficult after all. And I'll probably change all
those small electrolytic SMD caps as advised as I don't want to have to
deal with leaking caps in the future, it seems quite a job to clean.

Thanks again,

David.

The new version of Bob Parker's ESR meter, called the "Blue" is now
available from Anatek Corp if you're in the US. This is an updated version
of the original, and retains all the same features. It is fully automatic,
and a real value for money performer, especially if you take it in kit form.
I recently did a build and review article on it for a mag here in the UK,
and I can absolutely recommend it as an easy build, and excellent performer.
You'll wonder what you ever did without one.

http://www.anatekcorp.com/blueesr.htm

Arfa
Click to expand...
There's a tekscopes group on Y-a-h-o-o- that's very helpful
 
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