Tektronix FG507

[Charles]

I fired it up today and no joy. Took off all the covers/shields and tested
all the fuses and still no joy. Reseated all the connectors and ICs.

Finally, after repeated power on/off cycles it started to work.

Any ideas? I need this generator for an important project but can't rely on
it now. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[tm]

"Charles" <charlesschuler@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:k7f19g$9vh$1@dont-email.me...

I fired it up today and no joy. Took off all the covers/shields and
tested all the fuses and still no joy. Reseated all the connectors and
ICs.

Finally, after repeated power on/off cycles it started to work.

Any ideas? I need this generator for an important project but can't rely
on it now. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Is there a memory backup battery in it? Is it good?

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 20:18:39 -0500, "Charles"
<charlesschuler@comcast.net> wrote:

I fired it up today and no joy. Took off all the covers/shields and tested
all the fuses and still no joy. Reseated all the connectors and ICs.

Finally, after repeated power on/off cycles it started to work.

Any ideas? I need this generator for an important project but can't rely on
it now. Any suggestions?

Power wiring, switch contacts, flakey fuse, corroded PCB contacts,
etc. However, it could also be bad power supply capacitors, which is
my best guess. Use an ESR tester to check the caps or just replace
them.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[hr(bob) hofmann@att.net]

On Nov 7, 7:18 pm, "Charles" <charlesschu...@comcast.net> wrote:

I fired it up today and no joy.   Took off all the covers/shields and tested
all the fuses and still no joy.  Reseated all the connectors and ICs.

Finally, after repeated power on/off cycles it started to work.

Any ideas?  I need this generator for an important project but can't rely on
it now.  Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Bad switch contacts, did you check for any voltages after the pwer
switch?

 

[mike]

On 11/7/2012 5:18 PM, Charles wrote:

I fired it up today and no joy. Took off all the covers/shields and
tested all the fuses and still no joy. Reseated all the connectors and ICs.

Finally, after repeated power on/off cycles it started to work.

Any ideas? I need this generator for an important project but can't rely
on it now. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Assume the first thing you did was test it in another mainframe?

Or at least moved it to another socket in the same mainframe?
I also assume that you have something else in the mainframe so you
can rule out a bad power switch or corroded fuse holder or any
other common stuff.

The FG507 post-dates my tenure with TM500 engineering.
It's been 35 years and I'm OLD...so much of what I'm about to
say may be correct...maybe...YMMV.

The mainframe supplies unregulated DC.
~7V intended to be regulated to +5.
+/- 20ish intended to be regulated to +/-15V or so.
Because of the wide line voltage specs and cross loading,
it's difficult to get more than +/-15V regulated under worst
case conditions.

There are two floating transformer windings per hole. You can
get +/-20VDC if you're careful with the rectifier and regulator
design.

Each hole has one NPN and one PNP transistor allocated to it.
These are often used as pass transistors for power supply regulation.
I believe that all TM500 stuff of this era had linear regulated power
supplies.

A common failure is that the mainframe pass transistors come unsoldered
at the backplane board and become intermittent. Some plugins run them
hot, so the transistors themselves can become intermittent.

FG507 schematic doesn't seem to be available, but almost any TM500
signal generator from that era will have a similar power supply topology.
The tm503 manual has all the mainframe parts and pinouts.

 

[Charles]

"mike" wrote in message news:k7h0mb$6ee$1@dont-email.me...

On 11/7/2012 5:18 PM, Charles wrote:

I fired it up today and no joy. Took off all the covers/shields and
tested all the fuses and still no joy. Reseated all the connectors and
ICs.

Finally, after repeated power on/off cycles it started to work.

Any ideas? I need this generator for an important project but can't rely
on it now. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Thanks Mike. I tried it in every position in the mainframe. Also, other
plug-ins work.

I never turned it off and it is still working. I will leave it powered on
until this project is completed and then look for a new function generator.
Darn, I really liked the FG507.

 

"I never turned it off and it is still working. I will leave it powered on
until this project is completed and then look for a new function generator. "

You are SO looking at bad capacitors. If it stops working when you are done and you need it again, put it in the oven on keepwarm. Or change the capacitors of course.

J

 

[JW]

On Thu, 8 Nov 2012 16:18:20 -0500 "Charles" <charlesschuler@comcast.net>
wrote in Message id: <k7h7iu$iv3$1@dont-email.me>:

"mike" wrote in message news:k7h0mb$6ee$1@dont-email.me...

On 11/7/2012 5:18 PM, Charles wrote:
I fired it up today and no joy. Took off all the covers/shields and
tested all the fuses and still no joy. Reseated all the connectors and
ICs.

Finally, after repeated power on/off cycles it started to work.

Any ideas? I need this generator for an important project but can't rely
on it now. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Thanks Mike. I tried it in every position in the mainframe. Also, other
plug-ins work.

I never turned it off and it is still working. I will leave it powered on
until this project is completed and then look for a new function generator.
Darn, I really liked the FG507.

Manuals Plus claims to have a service manual.
http://www.manualsplus.com/catalog/product_info.php?sku=82316

You could also try asking on one of the Yahoo Tekscopes group.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 05:49:10 -0500, JW <none@dev.null> wrote:

Manuals Plus claims to have a service manual.
http://www.manualsplus.com/catalog/product_info.php?sku=82316
You could also try asking on one of the Yahoo Tekscopes group.

Also, eBay for $14.50:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/390187686761>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[JW]

On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 07:32:10 -0800 Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote in Message id: <098q989582l7nk1uvij66vgmlbr1k2qpal@4ax.com>:

On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 05:49:10 -0500, JW <none@dev.null> wrote:

Manuals Plus claims to have a service manual.
http://www.manualsplus.com/catalog/product_info.php?sku=82316
You could also try asking on one of the Yahoo Tekscopes group.

Also, eBay for $14.50:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390187686761

Huh. Yet Dave's webpage doesn't list it (I checked before posting the
above.)
http://artekmanuals.com/manuals

I'd email him and save a few bucks, that way you can also download - no
waiting for a CD.

 

[tm]

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:098q989582l7nk1uvij66vgmlbr1k2qpal@4ax.com...

On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 05:49:10 -0500, JW <none@dev.null> wrote:

Manuals Plus claims to have a service manual.
http://www.manualsplus.com/catalog/product_info.php?sku=82316
You could also try asking on one of the Yahoo Tekscopes group.

Also, eBay for $14.50:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390187686761

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Also, Qservice has it for download as a PDF for $7.49

http://www.qservice.tv/vpasp/shopexd.asp?id=269

Good quality scans.

 

[JW]

On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 10:42:52 -0500 JW <none@dev.null> wrote in Message id:
<9v8q98tcvn4577ub4gu8qtp6asc3iu26r3@4ax.com>:

On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 07:32:10 -0800 Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote in Message id: <098q989582l7nk1uvij66vgmlbr1k2qpal@4ax.com>:

On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 05:49:10 -0500, JW <none@dev.null> wrote:

Manuals Plus claims to have a service manual.
http://www.manualsplus.com/catalog/product_info.php?sku=82316
You could also try asking on one of the Yahoo Tekscopes group.

Also, eBay for $14.50:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390187686761

Huh. Yet Dave's webpage doesn't list it (I checked before posting the
above.)
http://artekmanuals.com/manuals

I'd email him and save a few bucks, that way you can also download - no
waiting for a CD.

I sent an email, and the search now finds it. It's more $ than the
Qservice manual that tm linked to.

 

[mike]

On 11/8/2012 8:38 PM, jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

"I never turned it off and it is still working. I will leave it powered on
until this project is completed and then look for a new function generator. "

You are SO looking at bad capacitors. If it stops working when you are done and you need it again, put it in the oven on keepwarm. Or change the capacitors of course.

J
Spoken like a man with experience.

How many DEAD FG507's have you fixed by replacing caps?
Which caps?
Please share so others can benefit.

 

Do I have to actually fix that particular model to have enough experience to know that tings that have trouble starting up usually have bad caps ?

J

 

[mike]

On 11/9/2012 4:44 PM, jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

Do I have to actually fix that particular model to have enough experience to know that tings that have trouble starting up usually have bad caps ?

J
My pet internet peeve is people who state with certainty and authority,

things they know nothing about.

I stopped short of criticism and asked about your credentials.
It appears that you have none in this area.

If you looked at a pile of dead LCD monitors, it's likely that a
many of them would have bad caps.
If you looked at a pile of dead TM500 stuff from the FG507 era,
it's likely that ZERO of them died from bad caps.

As I stated, that model post-dated my tenure in TM500 design,
but not by much.
I can almost guarantee you that the FG507 won't stop working
intermittently because of "bad caps".
The symptom of bad caps will be hum on the output and FMing.

Are we having fun yet?

 

"Are we having fun yet? "

Getting there.

"If you looked at a pile of dead TM500 stuff from the FG507 era,
it's likely that ZERO of them died from bad caps. "

I read the OP. It didn't die. It fails to start. There is a difference. If you think I was recommending a bunch of caps be changed at random you are mistaken. Any digital thing need proper reset and Vcc or Vdd or whatever to run. If it is not there initially it will never run. If there eventually it will run forever, but only gets one chance to start.

That's what I read in the OP. Also, being the type of equipment it is, it's not likely to be a bunch of caps, just one. It is most likely from the description in the OP. I would be looking at whatever feeds the microprocessor(s) and the associated reset circuits, unless they are all internal. That would be my first thing to do, even though it is not a common failure. (of course it is possble the OP already looked into that)

I have an intenet filter in my brain. When someone writes something I know that it is just one person saying it and they could be worng, as can I. Maybe I should have phrased it differently, maybe others do not have that automatic filter. You save alot of keystrokes by not including all the "maybe", "could be" and all that every time. I thought it was a foregone conclusion that it was just a suggestion.

I never claimed to have fixed one of those generators with the exact same symptom and it was C XXX or whatever.

This is not worth an argument really. I will just take note of what you wrote and perhaps phrase things a bit differently in the future.

J

 

[mike]

On 11/10/2012 1:17 PM, jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

"Are we having fun yet?"

Getting there.

"If you looked at a pile of dead TM500 stuff from the FG507 era,
it's likely that ZERO of them died from bad caps. "

I read the OP. It didn't die. It fails to start. There is a difference. If you think I was recommending a bunch of caps be changed at random you are mistaken. Any digital thing need proper reset and Vcc or Vdd or whatever to run. If it is not there initially it will never run. If there eventually it will run forever, but only gets one chance to start.

That's what I read in the OP. Also, being the type of equipment it is, it's not likely to be a bunch of caps, just one. It is most likely from the description in the OP. I would be looking at whatever feeds the microprocessor(s) and the associated reset circuits, unless they are all internal. That would be my first thing to do, even though it is not a common failure. (of course it is possble the OP already looked into that)

I have an intenet filter in my brain. When someone writes something I know that it is just one person saying it and they could be worng, as can I. Maybe I should have phrased it differently, maybe others do not have that automatic filter. You save alot of keystrokes by not including all the "maybe", "could be" and all that every time. I thought it was a foregone conclusion that it was just a suggestion.

I never claimed to have fixed one of those generators with the exact same symptom and it was C XXX or whatever.

This is not worth an argument really. I will just take note of what you wrote and perhaps phrase things a bit differently in the future.

J

It's unlikely that there's anything digital in that FG507...unless you

want to call
the trigger comparator digital.

 

It's unlikely that there's anything digital in that FG507...unless you want to call the trigger comparator digital.

I find that a bit hard to believe but surely is possible. Maybe I'll just STFU now lol. And no, even if a comparator is considered digital that's not what I meant. I guess the thing is older than I thought.

So really, what do you think is wrong with it ?

J

 

[mike]

On 11/10/2012 8:02 PM, jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

It's unlikely that there's anything digital in that FG507...unless you want to call the trigger comparator digital.

I find that a bit hard to believe but surely is possible. Maybe I'll just STFU now lol. And no, even if a comparator is considered digital that's not what I meant. I guess the thing is older than I thought.

So really, what do you think is wrong with it ?

J

late 70's design.

My first response discussed the likely power supply topology and things
to look for.
My money was on the pass transistors coming unsoldered from the backplane.
He seems to have eliminated that possibility.

The symptoms were not clear. "No joy" is insufficient specificity to
provide much help. I made the rash assumption that the power light was off,
but who knows.
There are a bunch of mainframe issues. They get bent.
The fiberglass is abrasive and wears the socket and can lead to
misalignment of the contacts and intermittent contact.
The instrument is likely very simple and should be easy to figger out
with a scope.

 

[tm]

"mike" <ham789@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:k7nflm$qvh$1@dont-email.me...

On 11/10/2012 8:02 PM, jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:
It's unlikely that there's anything digital in that FG507...unless you
want to call the trigger comparator digital.

I find that a bit hard to believe but surely is possible. Maybe I'll just
STFU now lol. And no, even if a comparator is considered digital that's
not what I meant. I guess the thing is older than I thought.

So really, what do you think is wrong with it ?

J

late 70's design.

My first response discussed the likely power supply topology and things to
look for.
My money was on the pass transistors coming unsoldered from the backplane.
He seems to have eliminated that possibility.

The symptoms were not clear. "No joy" is insufficient specificity to
provide much help. I made the rash assumption that the power light was
off,
but who knows.
There are a bunch of mainframe issues. They get bent.
The fiberglass is abrasive and wears the socket and can lead to
misalignment of the contacts and intermittent contact.
The instrument is likely very simple and should be easy to figger out
with a scope.

There is no processor in the FG507.

The main capacitors are in the mainframe. This unit does not use the AC
voltages from the mainframe.

One thing to take a look at is the IC sockets. If they are the TI type, it
would be the first thing to check as it is a known issue.

You might google for information on that problem.

Have fun,

tm