Switch mystery

A

AK

Guest
As you can see in the picture, the switch is set to the off position.

When I test the continuity, there is no beep.

However, when I test the outgoing voltage, it is 18 Volts D.c.

What gives?



"https://www.dropbox.com/s/sngn1wyod4ni19i/Switch.jpg?dl=0"
 
On Friday, April 5, 2019 at 4:09:16 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:
As you can see in the picture, the switch is set to the off position.

When I test the continuity, there is no beep.

However, when I test the outgoing voltage, it is 18 Volts D.c.

What gives?



"https://www.dropbox.com/s/sngn1wyod4ni19i/Switch.jpg?dl=0"

On further testing, I found that the transformer holds a residual charge for a few minutes after it is unplugged.

Is it because of some capacitors in the transformer?
 
On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 14:26:15 -0700 (PDT), AK <scientist77017@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Friday, April 5, 2019 at 4:09:16 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:
As you can see in the picture, the switch is set to the off position.

When I test the continuity, there is no beep.

However, when I test the outgoing voltage, it is 18 Volts D.c.

What gives?



"https://www.dropbox.com/s/sngn1wyod4ni19i/Switch.jpg?dl=0"

On further testing, I found that the transformer holds a residual charge for a few minutes after it is unplugged.

Is it because of some capacitors in the transformer?
That switch looks like it is on the mains? AC input? Capacitors on
the transformer secondary can't impose a DC voltage on the primary
side.

What are you using to measure this DC voltage? Something hinky is
going on and perhaps a high impendence meter is just responding to
electrostatic charge in the area.
 
On Friday, April 5, 2019 at 5:03:01 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 14:26:15 -0700 (PDT), AK <scientist77017@gmail.com
wrote:

On Friday, April 5, 2019 at 4:09:16 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:
As you can see in the picture, the switch is set to the off position.

When I test the continuity, there is no beep.

However, when I test the outgoing voltage, it is 18 Volts D.c.

What gives?



"https://www.dropbox.com/s/sngn1wyod4ni19i/Switch.jpg?dl=0"

On further testing, I found that the transformer holds a residual charge for a few minutes after it is unplugged.

Is it because of some capacitors in the transformer?


That switch looks like it is on the mains? AC input? Capacitors on
the transformer secondary can't impose a DC voltage on the primary
side.

What are you using to measure this DC voltage? Something hinky is
going on and perhaps a high impendence meter is just responding to
electrostatic charge in the area.

Using a digital multitester.

I hooked up a 12 volt led bulb to the output.

When the switch was turned off, it glowed for about 20 seconds and then faded to no light.

Andy
 
On 2019-04-05, AK <scientist77017@gmail.com> wrote:
As you can see in the picture, the switch is set to the off position.

When I test the continuity, there is no beep.

However, when I test the outgoing voltage, it is 18 Volts D.c.

What gives?

disconnect the outgoing wire and check again.

"https://www.dropbox.com/s/sngn1wyod4ni19i/Switch.jpg?dl=0"

--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.
 
On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 15:25:48 -0700 (PDT), AK <scientist77017@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Friday, April 5, 2019 at 5:03:01 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 14:26:15 -0700 (PDT), AK <scientist77017@gmail.com
wrote:

On Friday, April 5, 2019 at 4:09:16 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:
As you can see in the picture, the switch is set to the off position.

When I test the continuity, there is no beep.

However, when I test the outgoing voltage, it is 18 Volts D.c.

What gives?



"https://www.dropbox.com/s/sngn1wyod4ni19i/Switch.jpg?dl=0"

On further testing, I found that the transformer holds a residual charge for a few minutes after it is unplugged.

Is it because of some capacitors in the transformer?


That switch looks like it is on the mains? AC input? Capacitors on
the transformer secondary can't impose a DC voltage on the primary
side.

What are you using to measure this DC voltage? Something hinky is
going on and perhaps a high impendence meter is just responding to
electrostatic charge in the area.

Using a digital multitester.

I hooked up a 12 volt led bulb to the output.

When the switch was turned off, it glowed for about 20 seconds and then faded to no light.

Andy
That's quite possible with input filters on the power line. They can
remain charged after power is disconnected. An interesting experiment
would be to take multiple readings after switching off a number of
times and seeing what voltage you get each time.

Discharge the cap with the LED each time and you should see a
different voltage and possibly a different polarity each time. The
voltage should be dependent on where (at what point) on the input sine
wave you break the connection.

Another pretty good possibility is a switching power supply. I
discounted that idea originally because the switch looks ancient.
(before SMPs became prevalent) Switchers often charge a cap from the
mains and you could see some leakage from the diodes charging the cap.
With a switcher the transformer is after a largish electrolytic cap
that is charged directly off the mains. If that were the case, I'd
expect the DC voltage to be dependent on the amount of leakage in some
diodes over others and should be relatively the same each time you
switch it off until the charge on the cap leaks off.
 
On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 5:54:13 AM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 15:25:48 -0700 (PDT), AK <scientist77017@gmail.com
wrote:

On Friday, April 5, 2019 at 5:03:01 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 14:26:15 -0700 (PDT), AK <scientist77017@gmail.com
wrote:

On Friday, April 5, 2019 at 4:09:16 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:
As you can see in the picture, the switch is set to the off position.

When I test the continuity, there is no beep.

However, when I test the outgoing voltage, it is 18 Volts D.c.

What gives?



"https://www.dropbox.com/s/sngn1wyod4ni19i/Switch.jpg?dl=0"

On further testing, I found that the transformer holds a residual charge for a few minutes after it is unplugged.

Is it because of some capacitors in the transformer?


That switch looks like it is on the mains? AC input? Capacitors on
the transformer secondary can't impose a DC voltage on the primary
side.

What are you using to measure this DC voltage? Something hinky is
going on and perhaps a high impendence meter is just responding to
electrostatic charge in the area.

Using a digital multitester.

I hooked up a 12 volt led bulb to the output.

When the switch was turned off, it glowed for about 20 seconds and then faded to no light.

Andy
That's quite possible with input filters on the power line. They can
remain charged after power is disconnected. An interesting experiment
would be to take multiple readings after switching off a number of
times and seeing what voltage you get each time.

Discharge the cap with the LED each time and you should see a
different voltage and possibly a different polarity each time. The
voltage should be dependent on where (at what point) on the input sine
wave you break the connection.

Another pretty good possibility is a switching power supply. I
discounted that idea originally because the switch looks ancient.
(before SMPs became prevalent) Switchers often charge a cap from the
mains and you could see some leakage from the diodes charging the cap.
With a switcher the transformer is after a largish electrolytic cap
that is charged directly off the mains. If that were the case, I'd
expect the DC voltage to be dependent on the amount of leakage in some
diodes over others and should be relatively the same each time you
switch it off until the charge on the cap leaks off.

I found this.

This is an old-style unregulated "wall wart" adapter. The internal circuit is probably this, and nothing more:

The transformer is designed to fail in a safe manner (no external flames, not too much smoke and isolation between mains and output maintained) if it develops a shorted turn or is fatally overloaded.

The reverse leakage of the diodes in BR1 is quite low at room temperature and the electrolytic capacitor (perhaps 10,000uF rated at 16VDC) itself typically has not much leakage, so the charge can be maintained for minutes or more with nothing connected.

More modern switching supplies (as well as linear regulated adapters) typically drain down much faster.

If you're connecting such an adapter to a circuit of your own making, it's worth remembering this as the adapter can easily hold enough charge to destroy something if it's connected incorrectly. With it pulled out of the wall socket, you can short the output with a wire and most of the charge will be removed, but a bit of voltage will creep back due to the way capacitors behave (dielectric absorption effect).
 

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