\"surge protectors\"...

[Don Y]

Neighbor asked me about \"outlet strips with built in protectors\".

My advice was that they are no better than just an outlet strip
(assuming her reference to \"protectors\" was wrt SURGE protection
and she\'s looking at \"cheap\" products). I\'ve not seen anything
\"substantial enough\" in an outlet strip to really make a difference.
(maybe as a hash filter to keep crud from wall warts off the line?)

Our utilities are below grade. Anything on the high tension side
will be filtered by the local transformers. One to four subscribers
share a transformer.

Should I have told her otherwise?

 

[Don Y]

On 1/9/2023 7:52 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

The under say $ 20 strips are not very good.

I had a couple of the $ 50 or so protectors on the TV and some other
equipment. The transformer that fed my house exploded during a storm.

Do you have overhead power? Was the damage to the transformer due to
a lightning strike?

It fried the protectors but none of the equipment was damaged.
It took out the TV and some other things in the house next door.
So I would say get a good one or If you get an inexpensive protector it
may or may not do any good.

I question whether the designs are really worth much, if anything -- at
least in places where the utilities are buried. A direct strike on a home
is equally likely to send surges through network cables, phone lines,
etc. Should you replace all of that with fibre?

 

[Don Y]

On 1/9/2023 7:52 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

The under say $ 20 strips are not very good.

I had a couple of the $ 50 or so protectors on the TV and some other
equipment. The transformer that fed my house exploded during a storm.

Do you have overhead power? Was the damage to the transformer due to
a lightning strike?

It fried the protectors but none of the equipment was damaged.
It took out the TV and some other things in the house next door.
So I would say get a good one or If you get an inexpensive protector it
may or may not do any good.

I question whether the designs are really worth much, if anything -- at
least in places where the utilities are buried. A direct strike on a home
is equally likely to send surges through network cables, phone lines,
etc. Should you replace all of that with fibre?

 

[Don Y]

On 1/9/2023 7:52 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

The under say $ 20 strips are not very good.

I had a couple of the $ 50 or so protectors on the TV and some other
equipment. The transformer that fed my house exploded during a storm.

Do you have overhead power? Was the damage to the transformer due to
a lightning strike?

It fried the protectors but none of the equipment was damaged.
It took out the TV and some other things in the house next door.
So I would say get a good one or If you get an inexpensive protector it
may or may not do any good.

I question whether the designs are really worth much, if anything -- at
least in places where the utilities are buried. A direct strike on a home
is equally likely to send surges through network cables, phone lines,
etc. Should you replace all of that with fibre?

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 8 Jan 2023 22:44:01 -0700) it happened Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in <tpg9j4$3qo0$1@dont-email.me>:

Neighbor asked me about \"outlet strips with built in protectors\".

My advice was that they are no better than just an outlet strip
(assuming her reference to \"protectors\" was wrt SURGE protection
and she\'s looking at \"cheap\" products). I\'ve not seen anything
\"substantial enough\" in an outlet strip to really make a difference.
(maybe as a hash filter to keep crud from wall warts off the line?)

Our utilities are below grade. Anything on the high tension side
will be filtered by the local transformers. One to four subscribers
share a transformer.

Should I have told her otherwise?

I bought such a mains surge protector on the local market here years ago:
http://panteltje.com/pub/mains_protector_IXIMG_0503.JPG

Curiosity made me look inside:
http://panteltje.com/pub/mains_protector_IXIMG_0501.JPG
2 spark gaps and 3 VDRs

Works great so far.

Did not cost much, 5 Euro / dollars?

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 8 Jan 2023 22:44:01 -0700) it happened Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in <tpg9j4$3qo0$1@dont-email.me>:

Neighbor asked me about \"outlet strips with built in protectors\".

My advice was that they are no better than just an outlet strip
(assuming her reference to \"protectors\" was wrt SURGE protection
and she\'s looking at \"cheap\" products). I\'ve not seen anything
\"substantial enough\" in an outlet strip to really make a difference.
(maybe as a hash filter to keep crud from wall warts off the line?)

Our utilities are below grade. Anything on the high tension side
will be filtered by the local transformers. One to four subscribers
share a transformer.

Should I have told her otherwise?

I bought such a mains surge protector on the local market here years ago:
http://panteltje.com/pub/mains_protector_IXIMG_0503.JPG

Curiosity made me look inside:
http://panteltje.com/pub/mains_protector_IXIMG_0501.JPG
2 spark gaps and 3 VDRs

Works great so far.

Did not cost much, 5 Euro / dollars?

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 8 Jan 2023 22:44:01 -0700) it happened Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in <tpg9j4$3qo0$1@dont-email.me>:

Neighbor asked me about \"outlet strips with built in protectors\".

My advice was that they are no better than just an outlet strip
(assuming her reference to \"protectors\" was wrt SURGE protection
and she\'s looking at \"cheap\" products). I\'ve not seen anything
\"substantial enough\" in an outlet strip to really make a difference.
(maybe as a hash filter to keep crud from wall warts off the line?)

Our utilities are below grade. Anything on the high tension side
will be filtered by the local transformers. One to four subscribers
share a transformer.

Should I have told her otherwise?

I bought such a mains surge protector on the local market here years ago:
http://panteltje.com/pub/mains_protector_IXIMG_0503.JPG

Curiosity made me look inside:
http://panteltje.com/pub/mains_protector_IXIMG_0501.JPG
2 spark gaps and 3 VDRs

Works great so far.

Did not cost much, 5 Euro / dollars?

 

[Don Y]

On 1/9/2023 10:54 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:

I would have added, get an outlet strip/surge protector that is
metal. Belkin makes some that use the duplex sockets. Plastic
burns.

Actually, there is a far better option in the US, a \"whole house surge
protector\" (google for this without the quotes).

Yeah, she\'s not going to go that route. Cost of unit plus cost of
installation... cheaper to plan on replacing the kit that MIGHT
get damaged -- and hope none of it does.

I\'ve been on a crusade to prod neighbors into installing pressure
regulators on the municipal water supply -- our water pressure exceeds
100psi (most appliances are designed for a limit of ~80). And,
water pressure is constant, not some transient that comes along
during freak storms!

But, the cost of the PRV, expansion tank and labor to install
has folks ignoring the problem.

This is wired into the power panel of the house, and is physically
huge compared to those little surge protectors in power strips, and
provides warning that the protector is no longer effective (worn out).

I have one in my house. They were pioneered in Florida and Texas,
which are flat and very prone to thunderstorms.

In theory this should be installed by an electrician, but I installed
mine many years ago. Hmm. May be time to replace it.

I don\'t know what the EU/UK versions of this are called.

Joe Gwinn

 

[Don Y]

On 1/9/2023 10:54 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:

I would have added, get an outlet strip/surge protector that is
metal. Belkin makes some that use the duplex sockets. Plastic
burns.

Actually, there is a far better option in the US, a \"whole house surge
protector\" (google for this without the quotes).

Yeah, she\'s not going to go that route. Cost of unit plus cost of
installation... cheaper to plan on replacing the kit that MIGHT
get damaged -- and hope none of it does.

I\'ve been on a crusade to prod neighbors into installing pressure
regulators on the municipal water supply -- our water pressure exceeds
100psi (most appliances are designed for a limit of ~80). And,
water pressure is constant, not some transient that comes along
during freak storms!

But, the cost of the PRV, expansion tank and labor to install
has folks ignoring the problem.

This is wired into the power panel of the house, and is physically
huge compared to those little surge protectors in power strips, and
provides warning that the protector is no longer effective (worn out).

I have one in my house. They were pioneered in Florida and Texas,
which are flat and very prone to thunderstorms.

In theory this should be installed by an electrician, but I installed
mine many years ago. Hmm. May be time to replace it.

I don\'t know what the EU/UK versions of this are called.

Joe Gwinn

 

[Don Y]

On 1/9/2023 10:54 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:

I would have added, get an outlet strip/surge protector that is
metal. Belkin makes some that use the duplex sockets. Plastic
burns.

Actually, there is a far better option in the US, a \"whole house surge
protector\" (google for this without the quotes).

Yeah, she\'s not going to go that route. Cost of unit plus cost of
installation... cheaper to plan on replacing the kit that MIGHT
get damaged -- and hope none of it does.

I\'ve been on a crusade to prod neighbors into installing pressure
regulators on the municipal water supply -- our water pressure exceeds
100psi (most appliances are designed for a limit of ~80). And,
water pressure is constant, not some transient that comes along
during freak storms!

But, the cost of the PRV, expansion tank and labor to install
has folks ignoring the problem.

This is wired into the power panel of the house, and is physically
huge compared to those little surge protectors in power strips, and
provides warning that the protector is no longer effective (worn out).

I have one in my house. They were pioneered in Florida and Texas,
which are flat and very prone to thunderstorms.

In theory this should be installed by an electrician, but I installed
mine many years ago. Hmm. May be time to replace it.

I don\'t know what the EU/UK versions of this are called.

Joe Gwinn

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 8 Jan 2023 21:52:58 -0800 (PST)) it happened Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
<14cf2925-99be-412b-ae2f-87f09872443bn@googlegroups.com>:

On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:44:11 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
Neighbor asked me about \"outlet strips with built in protectors\".

My advice was that they are no better than just an outlet strip
(assuming her reference to \"protectors\" was wrt SURGE protection
and she\'s looking at \"cheap\" products). I\'ve not seen anything
\"substantial enough\" in an outlet strip to really make a difference.
(maybe as a hash filter to keep crud from wall warts off the line?)

Our utilities are below grade. Anything on the high tension side
will be filtered by the local transformers. One to four subscribers
share a transformer.

Should I have told her otherwise?

I\'ve tried to explain to people in Puerto Rico that the cheap surge protectors
are pretty much crap. They have a very low level of protection and there\'s
no way to tell when that is blown. I\'ve been staying at Airbnb places
and one landlord insisted that a microwave oven that stopped working was because
of a surge. She wouldn\'t even talk to the manufacturer about a warranty
claim. So she bought a surge protector, and expects the tenants to remember
to turn it off when not in use. Of course, that would be a good level
of protection... if surges were actually the problem... and people remember
to turn it off.

I look at all the appliances that don\'t break, and wonder why a surge would
target one and not the other dozen?

Because, for example Whirlpool power supplies in their washers are a series switcher
chip straight from the mains that will blow up on a surge.
Depends on the mains group / phase it is on too, if the neighbor is
using his electric drill or whatever

I also have a charm against alligators. The entire time I\'ve worn this charm,
I\'ve been safe from alligators. There are people in Florida who don\'t have
them and have been attacked by alligators. Pretty good proof they work,
no?

I don\'t have one, but the alligators that I keep just under the trapdoor
at the front door are so fat now from burglars they cannot be bothered.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 8 Jan 2023 21:52:58 -0800 (PST)) it happened Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
<14cf2925-99be-412b-ae2f-87f09872443bn@googlegroups.com>:

On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:44:11 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
Neighbor asked me about \"outlet strips with built in protectors\".

My advice was that they are no better than just an outlet strip
(assuming her reference to \"protectors\" was wrt SURGE protection
and she\'s looking at \"cheap\" products). I\'ve not seen anything
\"substantial enough\" in an outlet strip to really make a difference.
(maybe as a hash filter to keep crud from wall warts off the line?)

Our utilities are below grade. Anything on the high tension side
will be filtered by the local transformers. One to four subscribers
share a transformer.

Should I have told her otherwise?

I\'ve tried to explain to people in Puerto Rico that the cheap surge protectors
are pretty much crap. They have a very low level of protection and there\'s
no way to tell when that is blown. I\'ve been staying at Airbnb places
and one landlord insisted that a microwave oven that stopped working was because
of a surge. She wouldn\'t even talk to the manufacturer about a warranty
claim. So she bought a surge protector, and expects the tenants to remember
to turn it off when not in use. Of course, that would be a good level
of protection... if surges were actually the problem... and people remember
to turn it off.

I look at all the appliances that don\'t break, and wonder why a surge would
target one and not the other dozen?

Because, for example Whirlpool power supplies in their washers are a series switcher
chip straight from the mains that will blow up on a surge.
Depends on the mains group / phase it is on too, if the neighbor is
using his electric drill or whatever

I also have a charm against alligators. The entire time I\'ve worn this charm,
I\'ve been safe from alligators. There are people in Florida who don\'t have
them and have been attacked by alligators. Pretty good proof they work,
no?

I don\'t have one, but the alligators that I keep just under the trapdoor
at the front door are so fat now from burglars they cannot be bothered.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 8 Jan 2023 21:52:58 -0800 (PST)) it happened Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
<14cf2925-99be-412b-ae2f-87f09872443bn@googlegroups.com>:

On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:44:11 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
Neighbor asked me about \"outlet strips with built in protectors\".

My advice was that they are no better than just an outlet strip
(assuming her reference to \"protectors\" was wrt SURGE protection
and she\'s looking at \"cheap\" products). I\'ve not seen anything
\"substantial enough\" in an outlet strip to really make a difference.
(maybe as a hash filter to keep crud from wall warts off the line?)

Our utilities are below grade. Anything on the high tension side
will be filtered by the local transformers. One to four subscribers
share a transformer.

Should I have told her otherwise?

I\'ve tried to explain to people in Puerto Rico that the cheap surge protectors
are pretty much crap. They have a very low level of protection and there\'s
no way to tell when that is blown. I\'ve been staying at Airbnb places
and one landlord insisted that a microwave oven that stopped working was because
of a surge. She wouldn\'t even talk to the manufacturer about a warranty
claim. So she bought a surge protector, and expects the tenants to remember
to turn it off when not in use. Of course, that would be a good level
of protection... if surges were actually the problem... and people remember
to turn it off.

I look at all the appliances that don\'t break, and wonder why a surge would
target one and not the other dozen?

Because, for example Whirlpool power supplies in their washers are a series switcher
chip straight from the mains that will blow up on a surge.
Depends on the mains group / phase it is on too, if the neighbor is
using his electric drill or whatever

I also have a charm against alligators. The entire time I\'ve worn this charm,
I\'ve been safe from alligators. There are people in Florida who don\'t have
them and have been attacked by alligators. Pretty good proof they work,
no?

I don\'t have one, but the alligators that I keep just under the trapdoor
at the front door are so fat now from burglars they cannot be bothered.

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <tpg9j4$3qo0$1@dont-email.me>, blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
says...

Neighbor asked me about \"outlet strips with built in protectors\".

My advice was that they are no better than just an outlet strip
(assuming her reference to \"protectors\" was wrt SURGE protection
and she\'s looking at \"cheap\" products). I\'ve not seen anything
\"substantial enough\" in an outlet strip to really make a difference.
(maybe as a hash filter to keep crud from wall warts off the line?)

Our utilities are below grade. Anything on the high tension side
will be filtered by the local transformers. One to four subscribers
share a transformer.

Should I have told her otherwise?

The under say $ 20 strips are not very good.

I had a couple of the $ 50 or so protectors on the TV and some other
equipment. The transformer that fed my house exploded during a storm.
It fried the protectors but none of the equipment was damaged.
It took out the TV and some other things in the house next door.
So I would say get a good one or If you get an inexpensive protector it
may or may not do any good.

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <tpg9j4$3qo0$1@dont-email.me>, blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
says...

Neighbor asked me about \"outlet strips with built in protectors\".

My advice was that they are no better than just an outlet strip
(assuming her reference to \"protectors\" was wrt SURGE protection
and she\'s looking at \"cheap\" products). I\'ve not seen anything
\"substantial enough\" in an outlet strip to really make a difference.
(maybe as a hash filter to keep crud from wall warts off the line?)

Our utilities are below grade. Anything on the high tension side
will be filtered by the local transformers. One to four subscribers
share a transformer.

Should I have told her otherwise?

The under say $ 20 strips are not very good.

I had a couple of the $ 50 or so protectors on the TV and some other
equipment. The transformer that fed my house exploded during a storm.
It fried the protectors but none of the equipment was damaged.
It took out the TV and some other things in the house next door.
So I would say get a good one or If you get an inexpensive protector it
may or may not do any good.

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <tpg9j4$3qo0$1@dont-email.me>, blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
says...

Neighbor asked me about \"outlet strips with built in protectors\".

My advice was that they are no better than just an outlet strip
(assuming her reference to \"protectors\" was wrt SURGE protection
and she\'s looking at \"cheap\" products). I\'ve not seen anything
\"substantial enough\" in an outlet strip to really make a difference.
(maybe as a hash filter to keep crud from wall warts off the line?)

Our utilities are below grade. Anything on the high tension side
will be filtered by the local transformers. One to four subscribers
share a transformer.

Should I have told her otherwise?

The under say $ 20 strips are not very good.

I had a couple of the $ 50 or so protectors on the TV and some other
equipment. The transformer that fed my house exploded during a storm.
It fried the protectors but none of the equipment was damaged.
It took out the TV and some other things in the house next door.
So I would say get a good one or If you get an inexpensive protector it
may or may not do any good.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 09/01/2023 23:21, Don Y wrote:

On 1/9/2023 7:52 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

It fried the protectors but none of the equipment was damaged.
It took out the TV and some other things in the house next door.
So I would say get a good one or If you get an inexpensive protector it
may or may not do any good.

I question whether the designs are really worth much, if anything -- at
least in places where the utilities are buried.  A direct strike on a home
is equally likely to send surges through network cables, phone lines,
etc.  Should you replace all of that with fibre?

I had a Boca modem (back in the days when they were in extruded
aluminium cases) that got fried by lightning strike with underground
cables and no surge protection on any of the cables.

Somehow lightning will find a way to do damage if it wants to.
Irrespective of how fancy the protection you put around the kit.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Martin Brown]

On 09/01/2023 23:21, Don Y wrote:

On 1/9/2023 7:52 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

It fried the protectors but none of the equipment was damaged.
It took out the TV and some other things in the house next door.
So I would say get a good one or If you get an inexpensive protector it
may or may not do any good.

I question whether the designs are really worth much, if anything -- at
least in places where the utilities are buried.  A direct strike on a home
is equally likely to send surges through network cables, phone lines,
etc.  Should you replace all of that with fibre?

I had a Boca modem (back in the days when they were in extruded
aluminium cases) that got fried by lightning strike with underground
cables and no surge protection on any of the cables.

Somehow lightning will find a way to do damage if it wants to.
Irrespective of how fancy the protection you put around the kit.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Martin Brown]

On 09/01/2023 23:21, Don Y wrote:

On 1/9/2023 7:52 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

It fried the protectors but none of the equipment was damaged.
It took out the TV and some other things in the house next door.
So I would say get a good one or If you get an inexpensive protector it
may or may not do any good.

I question whether the designs are really worth much, if anything -- at
least in places where the utilities are buried.  A direct strike on a home
is equally likely to send surges through network cables, phone lines,
etc.  Should you replace all of that with fibre?

I had a Boca modem (back in the days when they were in extruded
aluminium cases) that got fried by lightning strike with underground
cables and no surge protection on any of the cables.

Somehow lightning will find a way to do damage if it wants to.
Irrespective of how fancy the protection you put around the kit.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Martin Brown]

On 09/01/2023 23:31, Don Y wrote:

On 1/9/2023 10:54 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
I would have added, get an outlet strip/surge protector that is
metal. Belkin makes some that use the duplex  sockets. Plastic
burns.

Actually, there is a far better option in the US, a \"whole house surge
protector\" (google for this without the quotes).

Yeah, she\'s not going to go that route.  Cost of unit plus cost of
installation... cheaper to plan on replacing the kit that MIGHT
get damaged -- and hope none of it does.

I\'ve been on a crusade to prod neighbors into installing pressure
regulators on the municipal water supply -- our water pressure exceeds
100psi (most appliances are designed for a limit of ~80).  And,
water pressure is constant, not some transient that comes along
during freak storms!

Water pressure can be a bit of a nuisance in hilly places. Ours is a bit
on the high side and it can go very high in the middle of the night when
almost no one is drawing water domestically.

But, the cost of the PRV, expansion tank and labor to install
has folks ignoring the problem.

Tends to break things like seals and cause leaks if you ignore it.

FWIW I use a Belkin surge arrestor on my kit with mains coming in on
poles I expect to take a lightning hit nearby every couple of years. The
UPS has its own internal surge protection as well.

Even so I have seen calorific sparks between my modem and ground that
occurred before the sound of the lightning strike very nearby! It had a
very sharp click sizzle sound as opposed to the loud deep thump.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown