Super Simple Solar Energy

[dcaster@krl.org]

I think about doing a lot of things that I never actually undertake. And Solar Collectors are one example of this. Seems like a good project, but it also seems like a bunch of work. So another idea is using solar panels in a super simple way. Not to replace electricity, but to provide a little heat to the basement. So it would just be solar panels connected to a resistive load. No battery storage, no inverter, no temperature control.

AliExpress or maybe it is Ebay has ads for 100 6 inch by 6 inch solar cells for about $100. So could make 4 panels , 2 feet by 3 feet to hold 24 solar cells on each panel. Maybe run lines for each panel to the basement.

Anyone see an obvious fault with the idea?

Dan

 

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 1:19:38 PM UTC-7, dca...@krl.org wrote:

I think about doing a lot of things that I never actually undertake. And Solar Collectors are one example of this. Seems like a good project, but it also seems like a bunch of work. So another idea is using solar panels in a super simple way. Not to replace electricity, but to provide a little heat to the basement. So it would just be solar panels connected to a resistive load. No battery storage, no inverter, no temperature control.

AliExpress or maybe it is Ebay has ads for 100 6 inch by 6 inch solar cells for about $100. So could make 4 panels , 2 feet by 3 feet to hold 24 solar cells on each panel. Maybe run lines for each panel to the basement.

Anyone see an obvious fault with the idea?
ou also
Dan

Nothing wrong, but lots of work soldering cells. You also have to make frame to protect them from breakage. I would rather get pre-made panels.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 13:19:32 -0700 (PDT), "dcaster@krl.org"
<dcaster@krl.org> wrote:

I think about doing a lot of things that I never actually undertake. And Solar Collectors are one example of this. Seems like a good project, but it also seems like a bunch of work. So another idea is using solar panels in a super simple way. Not to replace electricity, but to provide a little heat to the basement. So it would just be solar panels connected to a resistive load. No battery storage, no inverter, no temperature control.

AliExpress or maybe it is Ebay has ads for 100 6 inch by 6 inch solar cells for about $100. So could make 4 panels , 2 feet by 3 feet to hold 24 solar cells on each panel. Maybe run lines for each panel to the basement.

Anyone see an obvious fault with the idea?

Dan

Solar cells are inefficient, and resistive heaters are inefficient.
The sunlight is hot already, so maybe use a hot water loop, basically
a solar water heater.

I guess a solar cell could run a small circulating pump.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 15:24:21 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

------------------


Solar cells are inefficient, and resistive heaters are inefficient.


** Really ?

Other than heat, what do resistive heaters convert electricity into ?

Far IR light?


..... Phil

Some people claim that resistive heating is 100% efficient. Then a
heat pump must be 400% efficient.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 18:10:11 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 11/1/19 5:18 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 13:19:32 -0700 (PDT), "dcaster@krl.org"
dcaster@krl.org> wrote:

I think about doing a lot of things that I never actually undertake. And Solar Collectors are one example of this. Seems like a good project, but it also seems like a bunch of work. So another idea is using solar panels in a super simple way. Not to replace electricity, but to provide a little heat to the basement. So it would just be solar panels connected to a resistive load. No battery storage, no inverter, no temperature control.

AliExpress or maybe it is Ebay has ads for 100 6 inch by 6 inch solar cells for about $100. So could make 4 panels , 2 feet by 3 feet to hold 24 solar cells on each panel. Maybe run lines for each panel to the basement.

Anyone see an obvious fault with the idea?

Dan

Solar cells are inefficient, and resistive heaters are inefficient.
The sunlight is hot already, so maybe use a hot water loop, basically
a solar water heater.

I guess a solar cell could run a small circulating pump.



Solar collectors are great at cooking hot dogs on a sunny day, you could
cook the hot dogs and then eat the hot dogs and with your new found
strength from eating ride a stationary bicycle with a generator that
powers an electric heater.

I don't know what the conversion efficiency of that is but can't argue
with ease of system design.

I love hot dogs, but we don't get reliable sunlight here. But they
*must* be scorched, not just warmed up, so I use my little gas Weber
grill.

The BallPark Angus Beef dogs are great. The bun is critical too.
Brioche buns from Gus's are ideal.

https://gussmarket.com/market-locations/17th-and-harrison-mission-san-francisco/

Gus's is a short walk from Highland World Headquarters. On the way is
Tartine, who might make the best loaf bread in the world.

https://www.hideawayreport.com/articles/view/the-10-best-bread-bakeries-in-the-world/

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[Phil Allison]

John Larkin wrote:

------------------

Solar cells are inefficient, and resistive heaters are inefficient.

** Really ?

Other than heat, what do resistive heaters convert electricity into ?

Far IR light?


...... Phil

 

On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 13:19:32 -0700 (PDT), "dcaster@krl.org"
<dcaster@krl.org> wrote:

I think about doing a lot of things that I never actually undertake. And Solar Collectors are one example of this. Seems like a good project, but it also seems like a bunch of work. So another idea is using solar panels in a super simple way. Not to replace electricity, but to provide a little heat to the basement. So it would just be solar panels connected to a resistive load. No battery storage, no inverter, no temperature control.

AliExpress or maybe it is Ebay has ads for 100 6 inch by 6 inch solar cells for about $100. So could make 4 panels , 2 feet by 3 feet to hold 24 solar cells on each panel. Maybe run lines for each panel to the basement.

Anyone see an obvious fault with the idea?

Using PV to convert light to electricity at low efficiency (10-15 %)
and then converting it to heat doesn't sound too effective.

Use some solar collectors to directly transfer heat, look for tubular
vacuum solar collectors made in China.

 

[bitrex]

On 11/1/19 5:18 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 13:19:32 -0700 (PDT), "dcaster@krl.org"
dcaster@krl.org> wrote:

I think about doing a lot of things that I never actually undertake. And Solar Collectors are one example of this. Seems like a good project, but it also seems like a bunch of work. So another idea is using solar panels in a super simple way. Not to replace electricity, but to provide a little heat to the basement. So it would just be solar panels connected to a resistive load. No battery storage, no inverter, no temperature control.

AliExpress or maybe it is Ebay has ads for 100 6 inch by 6 inch solar cells for about $100. So could make 4 panels , 2 feet by 3 feet to hold 24 solar cells on each panel. Maybe run lines for each panel to the basement.

Anyone see an obvious fault with the idea?

Dan

Solar cells are inefficient, and resistive heaters are inefficient.
The sunlight is hot already, so maybe use a hot water loop, basically
a solar water heater.

I guess a solar cell could run a small circulating pump.

Solar collectors are great at cooking hot dogs on a sunny day, you could
cook the hot dogs and then eat the hot dogs and with your new found
strength from eating ride a stationary bicycle with a generator that
powers an electric heater.

I don't know what the conversion efficiency of that is but can't argue
with ease of system design.

 

[bitrex]

On 11/1/19 6:10 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 11/1/19 5:18 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 13:19:32 -0700 (PDT), "dcaster@krl.org"
dcaster@krl.org> wrote:

I think about doing a lot of things that I never actually undertake.
And Solar Collectors are one example of this.  Seems like a good
project, but it also seems like a bunch of work.  So another idea is
using solar panels in a super simple way.  Not to replace
electricity, but to provide a little heat to the basement.  So it
would just be solar panels connected to a resistive load.  No battery
storage, no inverter, no temperature control.

AliExpress or maybe it is Ebay has ads for 100 6 inch by 6 inch solar
cells for about $100.  So could make 4 panels , 2 feet by 3 feet to
hold 24 solar cells on each panel. Maybe run lines for  each panel to
the  basement.

Anyone see an obvious fault with the idea?

                                  Dan

Solar cells are inefficient, and resistive heaters are inefficient.
The sunlight is hot already, so maybe use a hot water loop, basically
a solar water heater.

I guess a solar cell could run a small circulating pump.



Solar collectors are great at cooking hot dogs on a sunny day, you could
cook the hot dogs and then eat the hot dogs and with your new found
strength from eating ride a stationary bicycle with a generator that
powers an electric heater.

Very small electric heater, that is. Like you could power a heated seat
on the bike to heat your butt while you pedal.

 

On Friday, 1 November 2019 20:19:38 UTC, dca...@krl.org wrote:

I think about doing a lot of things that I never actually undertake. And Solar Collectors are one example of this. Seems like a good project, but it also seems like a bunch of work. So another idea is using solar panels in a super simple way. Not to replace electricity, but to provide a little heat to the basement. So it would just be solar panels connected to a resistive load. No battery storage, no inverter, no temperature control.

AliExpress or maybe it is Ebay has ads for 100 6 inch by 6 inch solar cells for about $100. So could make 4 panels , 2 feet by 3 feet to hold 24 solar cells on each panel. Maybe run lines for each panel to the basement.

Anyone see an obvious fault with the idea?

Dan

Compared to using a solarthermal collector, you'll spend far more to get far less.


NT

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 9:41:03 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 15:24:21 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

------------------


Solar cells are inefficient, and resistive heaters are inefficient.


** Really ?

Other than heat, what do resistive heaters convert electricity into ?

Far IR light?

Some people claim that resistive heating is 100% efficient. Then a
heat pump must be 400% efficient.

John Larkin doesn't understand efficiency.

The heat pump extracts low level heat from the outside world, and delivers slightly higher level heat to your environment.

You get more heat delivered (in joules) per joule of electrical energy invested, but any "efficiency" calculation would have to take the change in outside world into account.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 4:19:38 PM UTC-4, dca...@krl.org wrote:

I think about doing a lot of things that I never actually undertake. And Solar Collectors are one example of this. Seems like a good project, but it also seems like a bunch of work. So another idea is using solar panels in a super simple way. Not to replace electricity, but to provide a little heat to the basement. So it would just be solar panels connected to a resistive load. No battery storage, no inverter, no temperature control.

AliExpress or maybe it is Ebay has ads for 100 6 inch by 6 inch solar cells for about $100. So could make 4 panels , 2 feet by 3 feet to hold 24 solar cells on each panel. Maybe run lines for each panel to the basement.

Anyone see an obvious fault with the idea?

Dan

Just the hassle. How much is it to buy the panels? Are these cells fully functional? I'm willing to be they only partly work and will give a poor result.

I guess I'm just lazy these days. We had a big storm last night with serious winds. I expect anything I had built like this would have been damaged either from debris blowing around or the panels picking up in the wind and becoming debris.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 5:18:33 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 13:19:32 -0700 (PDT), "dcaster@krl.org"
dcaster@krl.org> wrote:

I think about doing a lot of things that I never actually undertake. And Solar Collectors are one example of this. Seems like a good project, but it also seems like a bunch of work. So another idea is using solar panels in a super simple way. Not to replace electricity, but to provide a little heat to the basement. So it would just be solar panels connected to a resistive load. No battery storage, no inverter, no temperature control.

AliExpress or maybe it is Ebay has ads for 100 6 inch by 6 inch solar cells for about $100. So could make 4 panels , 2 feet by 3 feet to hold 24 solar cells on each panel. Maybe run lines for each panel to the basement.

Anyone see an obvious fault with the idea?

Dan

Solar cells are inefficient, and resistive heaters are inefficient.
The sunlight is hot already, so maybe use a hot water loop, basically
a solar water heater.

I guess a solar cell could run a small circulating pump.

"Resistive heaters are inefficient"??? So they are less than 100% efficient? I guess some of that electricity gets turned into waste heat that you must get rid of while the main heat is dumped into the room. Got it!

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Carl]

wrote in message
news:ede86b9f-9053-4db7-a785-e97a766c7f17@googlegroups.com...

I think about doing a lot of things that I never actually undertake. And
Solar Collectors are one example of this. Seems like a good project, but
it also seems like a bunch of work. So another idea is using solar panels
in a super simple way. Not to replace electricity, but to provide a little
heat to the basement. So it would just be solar panels connected to a
resistive load. No battery storage, no inverter, no temperature control.

AliExpress or maybe it is Ebay has ads for 100 6 inch by 6 inch solar cells
for about $100. So could make 4 panels , 2 feet by 3 feet to hold 24 solar
cells on each panel. Maybe run lines for each panel to the basement.

Anyone see an obvious fault with the idea?

Dan

You will have to do the soldering together and mounting them into useable
panels, and adding a protective cover sheet of glass. How many watts will
these provide, compared to the cheap 100 watt panels on amazon for $90-100
USD? Lots of reviews and youtube videos testing these, and they seem to be
good. If you got 400 W total from the aliexpress cells you would be saving
$300, then doing all that labor - your choice.

Efficiency-wise, using solar heat directly is definitely more efficient but
a lot more work. Now you have panel plumbing plus controller wiring plus
adding radiators and a pump if you don't already have hot water heating, and
dealing with freezing if it gets that cold where you are. I always assumed
that either using air heating panels or a water collector would be the way
to go, but apparently PV cells have gotten cheap enough that some people are
using them for heating water. Just add a few more PV panels to make up for
the lower efficiency and avoid all the plumbing costs and hassles. One
example video doing this for domestic hot water is this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSupSNhk02A, plus a couple of followups. He
used an MPPT controller designed just for this, driving the lower heating
element in a standard US-style two element electric water heater. This is
sold by the developer through his website www.techluck.com, or through the
ebay store TechLuck. It doesn't drive the heater at full power but since it
is heating all the time the sun is shining it gets the job done and keeps
the tank hot. You just set the thermostat on that heater up the the maximum
safe temp for the tank and let it go. Make the tank big enough to still
have enough hot water for the morning showers and the second heater still
connected to the mains won't ever come on. Lots of info at the website on
PV array sizes, heater wattages, etc. MPPT is definitely the best way to
extract power from the PV panels so I recommend either his controller or
some other, to drive your heaters.

I haven't done this myself, I just like researching and learning about
stuff, that's why I lurk here .

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames

 

[Winfield Hill]

edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote...

On November 1, 2019, dca...@krl.org wrote:

I think about doing a lot of things that I never actually undertake.
... So another idea is using solar panels in a super simple way...
to provide a little heat to the basement. So it would just be
solar panels connected to a resistive load.

Nothing wrong, but lots of work soldering cells. You also have
to make frame to protect them from breakage. I would rather get
pre-made panels.

Standard 1.0 x 1.6m panels deliver 300W max. These are available
for under $200 each. I have 34 of them on my roof. You might
want two or three of them. While thinking about system, which
includes a large hot-water heater, I considered using a solar
thermal collector system for the hot-water function. But after
adding up required the roof space, and plumbing and long-term
maintenance issues, it was clear solar panels was a tossup.
So I went with solar electricty to heat my hot water.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Phil Allison]

John Larkin = Pathetic Excuse for a Bullshitter wrote:

-----------------------------------------------------

Solar cells are inefficient, and resistive heaters are inefficient.


** Really ?

Other than heat, what do resistive heaters convert electricity into ?

Far IR light?


..... Phil

Some people claim that resistive heating is 100% efficient.

** Like all the scientists and engineers, even high school students.

Then a heat pump must be 400% efficient.

** JL must be a true genius.

He just proved 2+2 = 5

Wot a scumbag.


...... Phil

 

[Martin Riddle]

On Fri, 01 Nov 2019 14:18:23 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 13:19:32 -0700 (PDT), "dcaster@krl.org"
dcaster@krl.org> wrote:

I think about doing a lot of things that I never actually undertake. And Solar Collectors are one example of this. Seems like a good project, but it also seems like a bunch of work. So another idea is using solar panels in a super simple way. Not to replace electricity, but to provide a little heat to the basement. So it would just be solar panels connected to a resistive load. No battery storage, no inverter, no temperature control.

AliExpress or maybe it is Ebay has ads for 100 6 inch by 6 inch solar cells for about $100. So could make 4 panels , 2 feet by 3 feet to hold 24 solar cells on each panel. Maybe run lines for each panel to the basement.

Anyone see an obvious fault with the idea?

Dan

Solar cells are inefficient, and resistive heaters are inefficient.
The sunlight is hot already, so maybe use a hot water loop, basically
a solar water heater.

I guess a solar cell could run a small circulating pump.

Hot water solar collectors are the most efficient out of all solar
things. Most bang for the buck too. They move more heat than PV'S
could.

Cheers

 

[Klaus Kragelund]

Resistive load won’t operate at the maximum power point

If you overshoot, power goes way down

 

[John S]

On 11/1/2019 3:19 PM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:

I think about doing a lot of things that I never actually undertake. And Solar Collectors are one example of this. Seems like a good project, but it also seems like a bunch of work. So another idea is using solar panels in a super simple way. Not to replace electricity, but to provide a little heat to the basement. So it would just be solar panels connected to a resistive load. No battery storage, no inverter, no temperature control.

AliExpress or maybe it is Ebay has ads for 100 6 inch by 6 inch solar cells for about $100. So could make 4 panels , 2 feet by 3 feet to hold 24 solar cells on each panel. Maybe run lines for each panel to the basement.

Anyone see an obvious fault with the idea?

Dan

These are all assumptions/approximations:

100 6x6 inch is 2.323 m^2
2.323 m^2 might garner 2.323kW at the equator on a clear day if pointed
directly at the sun.
With a (generous) 20% efficiency, you would get about 465W at that location.
Of course, if you live at the equator, you won't have a basement and, if
you did, you wouldn't need heating.
Since you have a basement, you probably live north of the equator. Your
solar input will be less than 465W. In addition, you may not need the
collector in the summer months. In the winter, you will have even less
solar input and shorter days of daylight.
Are you going to make the panel track the sun somehow? If not, you will
your power will peak at about noon and will be less at other hours.
Including nighttime which is when you will need the heat most.

Just some thoughts. Many variables involved.

 

[dcaster@krl.org]

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 9:04:29 PM UTC-4, Carl wrote:

wrote in message
news:ede86b9f-9053-4db7-a785-e97a766c7f17@googlegroups.com...

I think about doing a lot of things that I never actually undertake. And
Solar Collectors are one example of this. Seems like a good project, but
it also seems like a bunch of work. So another idea is using solar panels
in a super simple way. Not to replace electricity, but to provide a little
heat to the basement. So it would just be solar panels connected to a
resistive load. No battery storage, no inverter, no temperature control.

AliExpress or maybe it is Ebay has ads for 100 6 inch by 6 inch solar cells
for about $100. So could make 4 panels , 2 feet by 3 feet to hold 24 solar
cells on each panel. Maybe run lines for each panel to the basement.

Anyone see an obvious fault with the idea?

Dan

You will have to do the soldering together and mounting them into useable
panels, and adding a protective cover sheet of glass. How many watts will
these provide, compared to the cheap 100 watt panels on amazon for $90-100
USD? Lots of reviews and youtube videos testing these, and they seem to be
good. If you got 400 W total from the aliexpress cells you would be saving
$300, then doing all that labor - your choice.

Efficiency-wise, using solar heat directly is definitely more efficient but
a lot more work. Now you have panel plumbing plus controller wiring plus
adding radiators and a pump if you don't already have hot water heating, and
dealing with freezing if it gets that cold where you are. I always assumed
that either using air heating panels or a water collector would be the way
to go, but apparently PV cells have gotten cheap enough that some people are
using them for heating water. Just add a few more PV panels to make up for
the lower efficiency and avoid all the plumbing costs and hassles. One
example video doing this for domestic hot water is this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSupSNhk02A, plus a couple of followups. He
used an MPPT controller designed just for this, driving the lower heating
element in a standard US-style two element electric water heater. This is
sold by the developer through his website www.techluck.com, or through the
ebay store TechLuck. It doesn't drive the heater at full power but since it
is heating all the time the sun is shining it gets the job done and keeps
the tank hot. You just set the thermostat on that heater up the the maximum
safe temp for the tank and let it go. Make the tank big enough to still
have enough hot water for the morning showers and the second heater still
connected to the mains won't ever come on. Lots of info at the website on
PV array sizes, heater wattages, etc. MPPT is definitely the best way to
extract power from the PV panels so I recommend either his controller or
some other, to drive your heaters.

I haven't done this myself, I just like researching and learning about
stuff, that's why I lurk here .

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames
c

You understand the trade offs. I had not seen anything about MPPT'n and it sounds adding one of them would be cost effective. And easy to add at any time.

Thanks,

Dan