Suggestions for AutoTrax use with CustomPCB ...

[budgie]

Having just about given up hope with Futurlec, I am looking around for pcb
fabricator offering a decent price/quality balance for protos.

I'm looking at CustomPCB (www.custompcb.com), but they don't accommodate
AutoTrax .pcb files - only CadSoft Eagle, OrCad PCB and Protel SE99 formats.

Short of migrating to one of these (which I don't really want to do) or trying
to master Gerber and drill files overnight, can anyone suggest a
straightforward means of getting my AutoTrax .pcb files into one of these
formats without expending significant money? I really need to send some test
boards to CustomPCB to check out their quality and turnaround.

The freeware version of Eagle doesn't handle boards big enough to accommodate
some of my projects 100*80 limit), so that isn't really an option. For that
reason, I haven't downloaded and installed it to find out if it can import
AutoTrax .pcb files.

OrCad isn't really economically justifiable.

Am I shafted? Constructive suggestions welcomed.

 

[Alan]

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 20:20:40 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

Having just about given up hope with Futurlec, I am looking around for pcb
fabricator offering a decent price/quality balance for protos.

I'm looking at CustomPCB (www.custompcb.com), but they don't accommodate
AutoTrax .pcb files - only CadSoft Eagle, OrCad PCB and Protel SE99 formats.

Short of migrating to one of these (which I don't really want to do) or trying
to master Gerber and drill files overnight, can anyone suggest a
straightforward means of getting my AutoTrax .pcb files into one of these
formats without expending significant money? I really need to send some test
boards to CustomPCB to check out their quality and turnaround.

The freeware version of Eagle doesn't handle boards big enough to accommodate
some of my projects 100*80 limit), so that isn't really an option. For that
reason, I haven't downloaded and installed it to find out if it can import
AutoTrax .pcb files.

OrCad isn't really economically justifiable.

Am I shafted? Constructive suggestions welcomed.
Jemal PCB in Welshpool will handle Autotrax files.

They also have a proto price these days but don't
advertise it.

Alan

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jenal Communications
Manufacturers and Suppliers of HF Selcall
P O Box 1108, Morley, WA, 6943
Tel: +61 8 9370 5533 Fax +61 8 9370 5106
Web Site: http://www.jenal.com
e-mail: http://www.jenal.com/contact.php
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[budgie]

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 20:20:40 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

Having just about given up hope with Futurlec, I am looking around for pcb
fabricator offering a decent price/quality balance for protos.

I'm looking at CustomPCB (www.custompcb.com), but they don't accommodate
AutoTrax .pcb files - only CadSoft Eagle, OrCad PCB and Protel SE99 formats.

Before any eagle-eyed readers jump down my throat and quote from the customPCB
site the following:

"If you use one of the following CAD software for your PCB layout, we will
accept the software's file format directly ......Protel Autotrax/Easytrax (PCB)
..."

I received advice from CustomPCB as follows:

"It is possible that we view the Autotrax file with our Protel SE, but the
import tend to be lossy (in other words, some traces/holes might be
missing)."

and when I asked whether this was speculation or based on experience, the reply
was:

"Let say, half the time our customer receive boards with 'surprises'. "

I don't need surprises ....

 

[budgie]

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 20:31:32 +0800, Alan <me@somewhere.com.au> wrote:

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 20:20:40 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

Having just about given up hope with Futurlec, I am looking around for pcb
fabricator offering a decent price/quality balance for protos.

I'm looking at CustomPCB (www.custompcb.com), but they don't accommodate
AutoTrax .pcb files - only CadSoft Eagle, OrCad PCB and Protel SE99 formats.

Short of migrating to one of these (which I don't really want to do) or trying
to master Gerber and drill files overnight, can anyone suggest a
straightforward means of getting my AutoTrax .pcb files into one of these
formats without expending significant money? I really need to send some test
boards to CustomPCB to check out their quality and turnaround.

The freeware version of Eagle doesn't handle boards big enough to accommodate
some of my projects 100*80 limit), so that isn't really an option. For that
reason, I haven't downloaded and installed it to find out if it can import
AutoTrax .pcb files.

OrCad isn't really economically justifiable.

Am I shafted? Constructive suggestions welcomed.
Jemal PCB in Welshpool will handle Autotrax files.
They also have a proto price these days but don't
advertise it.

Geez, I gave up on them a couple of decades back, when IIRC Alan Searle (?sp)
was "running" the place. They'd want to have improved a LOT to get me
interested again. I'm a "once bitten .." type of person.

Have also tried Des up at PnE but his pricing wasn't even vaguely competitive
with for example CustomPCB, which is why I am generally going off-shore.

 

[Alan]

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 20:34:13 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 20:20:40 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

Having just about given up hope with Futurlec, I am looking around for pcb
fabricator offering a decent price/quality balance for protos.

I'm looking at CustomPCB (www.custompcb.com), but they don't accommodate
AutoTrax .pcb files - only CadSoft Eagle, OrCad PCB and Protel SE99 formats.

Before any eagle-eyed readers jump down my throat and quote from the customPCB
site the following:

"If you use one of the following CAD software for your PCB layout, we will
accept the software's file format directly ......Protel Autotrax/Easytrax (PCB)
.."

I received advice from CustomPCB as follows:

"It is possible that we view the Autotrax file with our Protel SE, but the
import tend to be lossy (in other words, some traces/holes might be
missing)."

and when I asked whether this was speculation or based on experience, the reply
was:

"Let say, half the time our customer receive boards with 'surprises'. "

I don't need surprises ....

Jemal has been taken over by new people (Malcolm Searle is running
another business now). Marc Kaye at Jemal uses Protel SE I think but
he takes my Autotrax files and produces them usually OK. You have to
be careful with some things, like any text strings should be in
multiples of 12point or they scale wrongly.

I guess their prices (definitely) may not be as low as offshore prices
but that's your choice. I tend to thing that OZ has lost too many
jobs already so I try to support local industry whenever possible.

Alan

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jenal Communications
Manufacturers and Suppliers of HF Selcall
P O Box 1108, Morley, WA, 6943
Tel: +61 8 9370 5533 Fax +61 8 9370 5106
Web Site: http://www.jenal.com
e-mail: http://www.jenal.com/contact.php
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[budgie]

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 20:39:08 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 20:31:32 +0800, Alan <me@somewhere.com.au> wrote:

Jemal PCB in Welshpool will handle Autotrax files.
They also have a proto price these days but don't
advertise it.

Geez, I gave up on them a couple of decades back, when IIRC Alan Searle (?sp)
(snip)

ahhh, the grey matter kicked in at last. t'was Malcolm ..

 

[budgie]

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 20:52:56 +0800, Alan <me@somewhere.com.au> wrote:

Jemal has been taken over by new people (Malcolm Searle is running
another business now). Marc Kaye at Jemal uses Protel SE I think but
he takes my Autotrax files and produces them usually OK. You have to
be careful with some things, like any text strings should be in
multiples of 12point or they scale wrongly.

That's pretty much a "standard" trap with Easy?autotrax.

I guess their prices (definitely) may not be as low as offshore prices
but that's your choice. I tend to thing that OZ has lost too many
jobs already so I try to support local industry whenever possible.

So do I where they are vaguely competitive. But >$100 out of PnE doesn't
compare with $10.25 out of Futurlec. When I'm after serious quality - not
protos - I certainly use aussie panel fabs. But for protos when they have setup
charges that would buy me lunch for a week, I'd rather not starve just to feed
another aussie.

 

[Alan]

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 21:02:30 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 20:52:56 +0800, Alan <me@somewhere.com.au> wrote:


Jemal has been taken over by new people (Malcolm Searle is running
another business now). Marc Kaye at Jemal uses Protel SE I think but
he takes my Autotrax files and produces them usually OK. You have to
be careful with some things, like any text strings should be in
multiples of 12point or they scale wrongly.

That's pretty much a "standard" trap with Easy?autotrax.

I guess their prices (definitely) may not be as low as offshore prices
but that's your choice. I tend to thing that OZ has lost too many
jobs already so I try to support local industry whenever possible.

So do I where they are vaguely competitive. But >$100 out of PnE doesn't
compare with $10.25 out of Futurlec. When I'm after serious quality - not
protos - I certainly use aussie panel fabs. But for protos when they have setup
charges that would buy me lunch for a week, I'd rather not starve just to feed
another aussie.

That's a good point I guess!.. Generally I don't get a single proto
but usually get a couple of pallettes (approx 8in x 10in) made which
may have as many as 21 boards in each of them and try to make sure the
first design is right. That way I have enough for a small run as soon
as I have confirmed it works - but that's just my perverse thinking!

I really should think about protos for the more complex designs.

I did look for the leaflet Marc gave me about the proto service but I
don't know where I put it and whether or not he ever promoted it to
more customers. Usual thing - you have to wait unitl enough people
want protos to make it worthwhile for them.

Won't/can't futurlec take Gerbers. I thought Easy/Autotrax could
produce them (might be wrong though having not needed that facility).

Alan

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jenal Communications
Manufacturers and Suppliers of HF Selcall
P O Box 1108, Morley, WA, 6943
Tel: +61 8 9370 5533 Fax +61 8 9370 5106
Web Site: http://www.jenal.com
e-mail: http://www.jenal.com/contact.php
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[budgie]

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 21:16:31 +0800, Alan <me@somewhere.com.au> wrote:

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 21:02:30 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 20:52:56 +0800, Alan <me@somewhere.com.au> wrote:

I guess their prices (definitely) may not be as low as offshore prices
but that's your choice. I tend to thing that OZ has lost too many
jobs already so I try to support local industry whenever possible.

So do I where they are vaguely competitive. But >$100 out of PnE doesn't
compare with $10.25 out of Futurlec. When I'm after serious quality - not
protos - I certainly use aussie panel fabs. But for protos when they have setup
charges that would buy me lunch for a week, I'd rather not starve just to feed
another aussie.

That's a good point I guess!.. Generally I don't get a single proto
but usually get a couple of pallettes (approx 8in x 10in) made which
may have as many as 21 boards in each of them and try to make sure the
first design is right. That way I have enough for a small run as soon
as I have confirmed it works - but that's just my perverse thinking!

I really should think about protos for the more complex designs.

CustomPCB insist on two of everything - based on their view that drilling is the
main cost, so the cost per board becomes more tolerable if the stack is two
(presumably they only stack two - Malcolm used to stack up to SIX!!).

My slant on two for protos is that it's pointless (for me). Two DOES cost more
than one. If the proto is right, I go to production (which is a different
standard board with SM and OV). If the proto isn't right, why have two?

I did look for the leaflet Marc gave me about the proto service but I
don't know where I put it and whether or not he ever promoted it to
more customers. Usual thing - you have to wait unitl enough people
want protos to make it worthwhile for them.

I'm planning on visiting him this morning.

Won't/can't futurlec take Gerbers. I thought Easy/Autotrax could
produce them (might be wrong though having not needed that facility).

Futurlec problems are bigger than that. They take native AutoTrax .pcb files,
which is their big plus, but their quality and turnaround on my latest batch was
enough to drive me away. The boards were so bad that I sent them back, and then
they didn't communicate for over three weeks, finally wanting to charge me
production rates for protos simply because their kampong kids couldn't drill
holes in line.

 

[David L. Jones]

budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<t9uv60dvb7bv2444u11c53pqvl6c9rfsn3@4ax.com>...

Having just about given up hope with Futurlec, I am looking around for pcb
fabricator offering a decent price/quality balance for protos.

I'm looking at CustomPCB (www.custompcb.com), but they don't accommodate
AutoTrax .pcb files - only CadSoft Eagle, OrCad PCB and Protel SE99 formats.

Short of migrating to one of these (which I don't really want to do) or trying
to master Gerber and drill files overnight, can anyone suggest a
straightforward means of getting my AutoTrax .pcb files into one of these
formats without expending significant money? I really need to send some test
boards to CustomPCB to check out their quality and turnaround.

The freeware version of Eagle doesn't handle boards big enough to accommodate
some of my projects 100*80 limit), so that isn't really an option. For that
reason, I haven't downloaded and installed it to find out if it can import
AutoTrax .pcb files.

OrCad isn't really economically justifiable.

Am I shafted? Constructive suggestions welcomed.

The demo version of 99SE will get you out of trouble for 30 days or so.
Just import the Protel file and resave as 99SE format.

Send me an email david AT alternatezone DOT com, I can help.

Regards
Dave

 

[Dale]

Try www.becman.com

 

[budgie]

On 5 Apr 2004 21:40:31 -0700, ewgeneral@yahoo.com (Dale) wrote:

Try www.becman.com

Err, ummm - do you have a comprehension issue?

I did say "a decent price/quality balance for protos".

I have used BEC for full production panels and am quite familiar with their
services. Unless things have changed dramatically, they don't offer a "decent
price/quality balance for protos".

Maybe you know different?

 

[Alan]

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:30:31 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

On 5 Apr 2004 21:40:31 -0700, ewgeneral@yahoo.com (Dale) wrote:

Try www.becman.com

Err, ummm - do you have a comprehension issue?

I did say "a decent price/quality balance for protos".

I have used BEC for full production panels and am quite familiar with their
services. Unless things have changed dramatically, they don't offer a "decent
price/quality balance for protos".

Maybe you know different?

How did you go with Jemal??

Alan

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jenal Communications
Manufacturers and Suppliers of HF Selcall
P O Box 1108, Morley, WA, 6943
Tel: +61 8 9370 5533 Fax +61 8 9370 5106
Web Site: http://www.jenal.com
e-mail: http://www.jenal.com/contact.php
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[mike diack]

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:30:31 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

On 5 Apr 2004 21:40:31 -0700, ewgeneral@yahoo.com (Dale) wrote:

Try www.becman.com

Err, ummm - do you have a comprehension issue?

I did say "a decent price/quality balance for protos".

I have used BEC for full production panels and am quite familiar with their
services. Unless things have changed dramatically, they don't offer a "decent
price/quality balance for protos".

Maybe you know different?

I'm still pi$$ed at them for rorting me AU$110 to send a couple of A3
panels across the ditch, considering that Custom manage to Fedex
the same thing (weightwise) for US$8
M

 

[budgie]

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 13:08:18 +0800, Alan <me@somewhere.com.au> wrote:

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:30:31 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

On 5 Apr 2004 21:40:31 -0700, ewgeneral@yahoo.com (Dale) wrote:

Try www.becman.com

Err, ummm - do you have a comprehension issue?

I did say "a decent price/quality balance for protos".

I have used BEC for full production panels and am quite familiar with their
services. Unless things have changed dramatically, they don't offer a "decent
price/quality balance for protos".

Maybe you know different?


How did you go with Jemal??

Had a session with Marc, and picked up the flyer that you had seen.

The prices are obviously not *Futurlec*, but then again the quality and
turnaround would be better. I may have to go that way, although I was looking
for a random size capability rather than defined sub-panel areas. They never
seem to fit my jobs all that well.

Just received advice that I have five 4.7" x 3.9" s/s protos coming ex China for
$72 all up. Clearly a cheaper source, but complications ....

 

[budgie]

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:08:53 GMT, moby@kcbbs.gen.middleearth (mike diack) wrote:

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:30:31 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

(snip)

I have used BEC for full production panels and am quite familiar with their
services. Unless things have changed dramatically, they don't offer a "decent
price/quality balance for protos".

Maybe you know different?

I'm still pi$$ed at them for rorting me AU$110 to send a couple of A3
panels across the ditch, considering that Custom manage to Fedex
the same thing (weightwise) for US$8

Yeah, it's strange how some businesses can't get the simplest things straight.
I've not had shipping cost issues with BEC (internal air to W.A.) but Futurlec
managed to charge $US15 to ship four EPROM's from Bangkok to Perth.