STUPID QUESTION No. 5

A package from All Electronics arrives with TERMINAL BLOCKS n overlaps

when time permits we're gonna clean up our wiring

yeah !

https://goo.gl/rPQFwR

Q5 is: how to label wires that is of what material n print substance ?

is there a preferred tape and ink ?

we tried 3M 33 and the felts bought at Wal but the ink fell off ...

masking tape is visually borderline gack .....coating the area with linseed..

any ideas ?

 

[Tim R]

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 11:49:35 AM UTC-4, avag...@gmail.com wrote:

A package from All Electronics arrives with TERMINAL BLOCKS n overlaps

when time permits we're gonna clean up our wiring

yeah !

https://goo.gl/rPQFwR

Q5 is: how to label wires that is of what material n print substance ?

Yeah. Use what the pros do. They carry little sheets of material made for the purpose.

Some stupid questions are easily googled. Used the term "wire marker."

There are thousands of sites like this:
http://www.cableorganizer.com/cable-identification/

 

[Micky]

On Tue, 10 May 2016 08:49:32 -0700 (PDT), avagadro7@gmail.com wrote:

A package from All Electronics arrives with TERMINAL BLOCKS n overlaps

when time permits we're gonna clean up our wiring

yeah !

https://goo.gl/rPQFwR

Q5 is: how to label wires that is of what material n print substance ?

is there a preferred tape and ink ?

I'm no pro but on occasion I've used white vinyl electrical tape and a
black permanent marker. But usually I use nothing and then wonder
which is which a couple years later.

we tried 3M 33 and the felts bought at Wal but the ink fell off ...

masking tape is visually borderline gack .....coating the area with linseed..

any ideas ?

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 10 May 2016 08:49:32 -0700 (PDT), avagadro7@gmail.com wrote:

> Q5 is: how to label wires that is of what material n print substance ?

<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Label%20Makers.jpg>
Make me rich and it's all yours. I had to label what I would guess
was about 500 cables at an ISP many years ago. The two Kroy machines
will print on shrink tube, which I decided was the easiest and best
way.

> is there a preferred tape and ink ?

All inks fade, rub off, or take too long to dry. What you want are
Kroy thermal transfer labels for marking wires.
<http://www.kroy.com/thermal/index.htm>

> we tried 3M 33 and the felts bought at Wal but the ink fell off ...

After the ink falls of, the pressure senitive glue will either melt or
evaporate. Then, the black electrical tape will fall off. Same thing
happens with most other sticky tapes when they get hot.

> masking tape is visually borderline gack .....coating the area with linseed..

Masking tape has the amazing ability to ossify and fall off, leaving
the ultimate sticky mess behind on the wire.

> any ideas ?

Yeah. Since I know you're not going to run out and spend a pile of
money on a proper thermal label maker, I have a cheaper trick that
I've used with good success. Make your label on a cheap thermal label
maker, such as Dymo LetraTag:
<http://www.dymo.com/en-US/letratag-plus-lt-100h-silver-label-maker>
I have 3 of them, not counting the one's I dropped, threw against a
brick wall, or ran over with my Subaru. Make sure you use the plastic
labels, not the paper labels.
<http://www.dymo.com/en-US/lt-plastic-labels-1-2-in>
Print whatever and stick the label on the wire. Then, wrap it with
Scotch transparent tape. 3/4" wide if possible. It thinks this is
the stuff:
<http://www.scotchbrand.com/3M/en_US/scotch-brand/products/catalog/~/Scotch-Transparent-Tape-Refill-Rolls?N=4335+3294529207+3294603591&rt=rud>
Not the translucent crap that allegedly looks clear after it's
applied, but the stuff that's clear on the roll. I'll check the
product name and number next time I visit Office Max.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 4:18:11 PM UTC-4, Tim R wrote:

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 11:49:35 AM UTC-4, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
A package from All Electronics arrives with TERMINAL BLOCKS n overlaps

when time permits we're gonna clean up our wiring

yeah !

https://goo.gl/rPQFwR

Q5 is: how to label wires that is of what material n print substance ?


Yeah. Use what the pros do. They carry little sheets of material made for the purpose.

Some stupid questions are easily googled. Used the term "wire marker."

There are thousands of sites like this:
http://www.cableorganizer.com/cable-identification/

wire markers ! a winner.

the Dymo is a surprise.....now what's needed at that price is a transeaver dymo...point n shoot get the wire and local schematic....then press A for the total effective schematic with problem areas.

at $35

 

[Mike]

In article <c3s7jblmjis99t8ogcc29mgeloi6no88vm@4ax.com>,
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

Dymo LetraTag:
Make sure you use the plastic labels, not the paper labels.
Then, wrap it with Scotch transparent tape.

Have done all these three. Great little units ...

Warning. Some plastic surfaces interact with labels over time.

I have some labels where the background has darkened, so instead
of black on white, it's black on very dark grey.

Weirder, black on yellow has reversed to be dull yellow on brown!

This is not a heat issue, the labelling is on the plastic body
of 1/4" jack plugs -- is it the plasticisers?

And also on a white plastic 4-way socket strip, made of flexible
plastic, same darkening. Unaffected on hard/brittle strips in the
same location.

--
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk | http://www.signal11.org.uk

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

[Jon Elson]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

All inks fade, rub off, or take too long to dry. What you want are
Kroy thermal transfer labels for marking wires.
http://www.kroy.com/thermal/index.htm

Brother makes label products that laminate the label behind the front layer
of the lamination. These are their "TZ" tapes. The make a "super flexible"
version that can be wrapped around wires. Might still need some clear tape
or something to make them stay on forever.

I use one of these for serial # labels and such, so I have the machine
already.

Jon

 

hmmm possible to buy quality wire labels as Kroy with numbering on the labels

peel off label 0001A and affix, write down what 0001A is in the book.

write down where book is....

..

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 12 May 2016 17:43:53 -0700 (PDT), avagadro7@gmail.com wrote:

hmmm possible to buy quality wire labels as Kroy with numbering on the labels
peel off label 0001A and affix, write down what 0001A is in the book.
write down where book is....

I did that at one office building:
Before:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/Phone%20Room%20Before.html>
After:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/Phone%20Room%20After.html>
Well, that photo was before I labeled everything. The problem was
that it only worked as long as I was personally doing the wiring. When
the phone, alarm, sprinkler, cable company, self-installers, etc
arrived, they made a huge mess. Asking Ma Bell to "tag" their work
seemed to be like asking the installer to perform an un-natural act. I
gave up.

Well, if you want quality and a permanent label, I suggest a Kingsley
(Norwood) hot stamp machine:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcjwVgQNqTg>
<https://www.itwnorwood.com>

If that's not good enough, there are laser wire warker machines:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k81ISpP2pc4>

or maybe an ink sprayer:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNyfFnKWaJ0>
You can also use it to apply fake tatoos.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 11:16:26 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 12 May 2016 17:43:53 -0700 (PDT), avagadro7@gmail.com wrote:

hmmm possible to buy quality wire labels as Kroy with numbering on the labels
peel off label 0001A and affix, write down what 0001A is in the book.
write down where book is....

I did that at one office building:
Before:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/Phone%20Room%20Before.html
After:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/Phone%20Room%20After.html
Well, that photo was before I labeled everything. The problem was
that it only worked as long as I was personally doing the wiring. When
the phone, alarm, sprinkler, cable company, self-installers, etc
arrived, they made a huge mess. Asking Ma Bell to "tag" their work
seemed to be like asking the installer to perform an un-natural act. I
gave up.

Well, if you want quality and a permanent label, I suggest a Kingsley
(Norwood) hot stamp machine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcjwVgQNqTg
https://www.itwnorwood.com

If that's not good enough, there are laser wire warker machines:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k81ISpP2pc4

or maybe an ink sprayer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNyfFnKWaJ0
You can also use it to apply fake tatoos.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

nice work Dude !

I should bring the van by .....I could buy you dinner....

ok but is there a spool of wire markers FACTORY NUMBERED where the prenumberd wire larker is peeled off n applied to GROUND REAR BACK UP LAMP

the I would record that wire marker 0001B as 'Ground rear....

in the wiring records book

this would appear more mil spec as the factory would produce the entire rig print glue covering.

 

[whit3rd]

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 8:49:35 AM UTC-7, avag...@gmail.com wrote:

> Q5 is: how to label wires that is of what material n print substance ?

I don't trust gummed adhesive on insulation or sheathing of a cable or wire,
so it's a flag-equipped wiretie to start with, and put a label onto
the flag. I like Brother P-touch with TZ-tape (it has a transparent cover over the
inked letters).

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 13 May 2016 17:07:11 -0700 (PDT), avagadro7@gmail.com wrote:

>I should bring the van by .....I could buy you dinner....

Forget it. I'm on a diet of sorts.

ok but is there a spool of wire markers FACTORY NUMBERED where the
prenumberd wire larker is peeled off n applied to GROUND REAR
BACK UP LAMP

Nope. You either mark the wire yourself, or pay someone with a
machine to do it for you.

the I would record that wire marker 0001B as 'Ground rear....
in the wiring records book

It probably doesn't matter what numbers you put on the wires as long
as you can identify the wires. So, tow your van down to the nearest
electronic surplus store and dig through the rolls of surplus wire.
Most of the stuff is aerospace overstock where the wires are marked
and can't be re-used with a different marking. Such pre-marked wires
are generally considered useless or ugly, which shouldn't matter much
for your application.

this would appear more mil spec as the factory would produce the
entire rig print glue covering.

It depends on how many wires you want to mark. I can't imagine your
recumbent needing very many wires. A vinyl label maker and clear tape
should suffice.

If you don't care about the mess you're sure to make, I suggest
getting some silk screening mesh, mask off everything except what you
want to print, and screen the text with ink and a squeegee. It's
kinda tricky to do on anything that's not flat, but still possible.

If you really don't care about making a mess, you could just color
code the wire. Or just buy white PVC wire and color your own cables
with solvent based dyes:
<http://makezine.com/projects/make-30/stain-pvc-any-color-you-like/>

However, if you want to go high tech and do it thyself, it might be
fun to build wire marker from a UV laser and an x-y table. Wire
marking lasers use excimer or solid state (Nd:YAG) 200 to 350nm UV
lasers. A 450nm blue laser will also sorta work. These lasers are
not cheap, but can be found used and abused. Anything about 1.5 watts
or more depending on how fast you want to scribble. Get a CNC
controlled x-y table, add the laser, and blast away.
<http://www.ebay.com/bhp/cnc-laser>
Don't forget the safety equipment, glasses, interlocks, insurance,
fire extinguisher, etc.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

anarchy or regimentation ?

I'll need more digging. Yawl machine guys...pop...pop...pop...pop...

as the wiremen complained of...

a wire tie rig seems dated from a loose tube adhesived off the wire's diameter...

a hangup ...as I've not seen...is plastics vs street level marking chemicals.

vinyl is difficult...immediately look to a fabric adhesived marker with suitable ink. Not UL but we have an extinguisher handy.

synthetic clothing is markable ...with p[potato squeezoin's

we'll be back after the commercial

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 14 May 2016 18:02:47 -0700 (PDT), avagadro7@gmail.com wrote:

>vinyl is difficult.

Vinyl is easy, if the glue is any good. The better glues contain a
small amount of MEK or other solvent. MEK disolves both the vinyl and
the PVC wire insulation slightly, which causes a permanent solvent
weld. The catch is that it has a limited shelf life because the MEK
is rather volatile. If you want to make your own permanent stick
labels, just slop ONE tiny drop of dilluted MEK onto the wire
insulation and wrap the vinyl label over it. You'll need to hold it
in place until the MEK evaporates, or your fingers dissolve. It's
quite permanent, toxic, messy, nasty, smelly, hazardous, and
dangerous, but those are minor considerations when you're engaged in
the important task of attaching permanent wire labels. Also, be sure
to wash your hands before touching anything that has been painted
because the residual MEK in your skin pores will leave your
fingerprints everywhere. That's bad because you wouldn't want anyone
to know who made the mess.

Immediately look to a fabric adhesived marker with
suitable ink. Not UL but we have an extinguisher handy.

Fabric label tend to absorb liquids and vapors. I've used fabric wire
labels and find them lacking. It's not unusual to find a wire closet
with all the wire labels sitting on floor. Brady Wire Markers
switched from cotton cloth to vinyl cloth some time ago. I haven't
tried those yet.
<https://www.bradyid.com/en-us/products/labels-and-tapes/labels/wire-and-cable-labels/wire-and-cable-books-and-cards/wire-and-cable-label-books#>
The bad news is that they're expensive and the cloth labels are
"repositionable" which means they'll fall off without assistance.

>synthetic clothing is markable ...with p[potato squeezoin's

Cloth insulated wire? I don't think that will work.

>we'll be back after the commercial

I don't watch commercial TV any more. These days, it's streaming
video via Netflix, YouTube, CuriosityStream, Hulu, and such with zero
commercials. I haven't seen a commerical on TV in years.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Ron D.]

An X-ray machine I worked on had all white wires. Then I notices that all of the wires had pre-printed numbers written on the wire similar to motors. there was an in-house thingy that had all yellow wires. I notices that that used ground for the neutral return. Management would not let me fix it.. They said It's been like that for 20 years.

p-touch has been good to me.

I generally like labeling the cables and not their function. An fire alarm panel type thing, I used plastic label clips with designations like 1A2.
Cable A from location a to location 2. These were the red PTFE insulated cables.

I do like the p-touch labels. Just get the supplies from the brother website. Cheaper than Staples.

The wire markers have their use when taking something apart.

Aside:
At home, I'm slowly wiring the house. Not a whole lot has happened so far except a patch panel - nothing connected. The telco patch panel (paralleled) is red, All will use CAT6. The patch and room outlets will use inserts to make the RJ45's appear as 6p6c. Two colors for the CAT6.

So, for the most part, I cleaned up existing wiring and used two octopus cables to handle power to wall warts,

There's room to put a 1RU switch.

 

[Ron D.]

Another aside:

What I found to be extremely useful is to mark the ends of wall wart cables and the actual equipment.

The cable end may be marked
5.5/2.1 C+
5 V / 1A DC

So you have a coax 5.5 mm/2.1 mm center is positive

Separately it's marked something like:
Dynex abc
USB switch

These are Flag labels.

I put the voltages/current and connector sizes on the equipment too.

I need to go back and add a flag label at the wall wart for what it' connected to especially for my Octopus cables. Then there is the database.

 

A white roll of this for canoe/kayak roof rack covers is in the garage. Trying this with a non toxic glue and a precise edge inking method.

UV Resistant Flagcloth Uncoated Oxford
3.5 oz. per sq yd. UV Resistant 200 Denier. Water repellent finish and superior ultraviolet resistance. The use of high tenacity yarns makes an attractive fabric, while maintaining even dye appearance and good screen printing capabilities.

Uses: Flags, Banners, Jackets, Bags, Tents, Stuff Sacks

http://www.seattlefabrics.com/nylons.html#UV Resistant Flagcloth Uncoated Oxford

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 18 May 2016 17:35:48 -0700 (PDT), avagadro7@gmail.com wrote:

A white roll of this for canoe/kayak roof rack covers is in the garage. Trying this with a non toxic glue and a precise edge inking method.
UV Resistant Flagcloth Uncoated Oxford
3.5 oz. per sq yd. UV Resistant 200 Denier. Water repellent finish and superior ultraviolet resistance. The use of high tenacity yarns makes an attractive fabric, while maintaining even dye appearance and good screen printing capabilities.
Uses: Flags, Banners, Jackets, Bags, Tents, Stuff Sacks
http://www.seattlefabrics.com/nylons.html#UV Resistant Flagcloth Uncoated Oxford

Not available in camouflage pattern. Find another supplier or just
use a plastic camouflage tarp:
<http://www.harborfreight.com/9-ft-6-inch-x-7-ft-4-inch-camouflage-tarp-46411.html>
Incidentally, the camouflage pattern is not to hide your
kayak/recumbent from oportunistic thieves, but rather to hide your
sloppy workmanship from sewing critics. Beware... they're everywhere.

If this is suppose to act as a kayak/recumbent cover while it's on the
vehicle, you're going to need something that is rip-stop and possibly
reinforced. It's almost certain that you're going to snag it on a
tree branch at some point. With un-reinforced or non rip stop weaves,
the "wind" will expand a tear to the full length of the cover.

Also, you'll need a glue that's made for fabric that's not going to
melt in the sun or turn to concrete when cold. Look for "waterproof
fabric glue" or "heat set fabric adhesive".
<http://www.bostik.co.uk/diy/product/bostik/Sew-Simple-/266>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sTLMon9B64>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=fabric+glue>
Common hot melt glue will suffice (barely) as long as it's flexible.
If it dries hard, it will crack, crumble, and fall apart. If all you
want is a waterproof seam, just some rubberized latex or heat set
glue, plus a double or triple needle seam. Plan on wasting some
material learning how to do this. Also, test the glue (after it sets)
in the fridge or deep freeze to see what happens when it gets cold.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

AE6KS

the roll here is bright white.

usually Weldwood red on nylon ....eg tent repair https://goo.gl/3BB7m6

for wire ID markers ? the wiring is in the van so not toxic is required. I sleep in van then work with birds in the field at sundown/sunup checking behavior patterns with mobile MiFi USGS Earthquakes real time mapping.

Loctite fabric glue might be relatively non toxic in the very small quantities needed. The stuff at Walmart. Not construction or outback levels... Weldwood red does not come apart, Loctite does separate under pressure...but for a wire marker ?

tried Loctite as a filler around primary wiring...some Pico...running thru nylon tube fluid/air wall fittings finding the Locktite held wiring inplace and sealed out water ...this on pelican boxes sealed with 3M Marine soybean oil. Should work on uncoated flag cloth.

Flags are expensive.

on the yak or abs canoe....for long exposure trips out west where the sun shines...the covering is held on with shock cording n strapping...commercially developed models available.

now find ink .....