Stalled EV...

[Dean Hoffman]

The first link is to a story about a tow truck driver towing his first EV.
This EV driver would\'ve been ok if he had a hybrid.
<https://ijr.com/californian-learns-brutal-lesson-evs-stranded-truck-hauled/>
Here\'s a Consumer Reports article about hybrids.
<https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/how-do-hybrid-cars-work-a1034181509/>
I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the way designers think they will be.

 

[Ricky]

On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 11:24:30 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:

The first link is to a story about a tow truck driver towing his first EV..
This EV driver would\'ve been ok if he had a hybrid.
https://ijr.com/californian-learns-brutal-lesson-evs-stranded-truck-hauled/
Here\'s a Consumer Reports article about hybrids.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/how-do-hybrid-cars-work-a1034181509/
I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the way designers think they will be.

What sort of bugs are you talking about???

I do agree with the article about one thing. People in Wyoming should not drive electric vehicles, either one of them. Wyoming should be the last bastion of ICE vehicles. They can drill their own oil, refine their own gasoline and make their own vehicles. Because the rest of the country will have switched to electric, there won\'t be gas pipelines or new cars from Detroit or Germany, or Japan. I\'ll be interested in seeing how that turns out.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 11:24:30 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:

The first link is to a story about a tow truck driver towing his first EV..
This EV driver would\'ve been ok if he had a hybrid.
https://ijr.com/californian-learns-brutal-lesson-evs-stranded-truck-hauled/
Here\'s a Consumer Reports article about hybrids.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/how-do-hybrid-cars-work-a1034181509/
I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the way designers think they will be.

That was the driver\'s stupidity and not the EV. Of course the right wingnut press loves to jump on a story about a renewable failure. Was the driver so stupid he thought a mile on the flat is the same as mile with a 7% incline? Sounds like it. Google maps could compute the kWh for his exact route with pretty good accuracy if they had that capability. I haven\'t heard anything about it- yet.

 

[Ricky]

On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 11:24:30 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The first link is to a story about a tow truck driver towing his first EV.
This EV driver would\'ve been ok if he had a hybrid.
https://ijr.com/californian-learns-brutal-lesson-evs-stranded-truck-hauled/
Here\'s a Consumer Reports article about hybrids.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/how-do-hybrid-cars-work-a1034181509/
I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the way designers think they will be.
That was the driver\'s stupidity and not the EV. Of course the right wingnut press loves to jump on a story about a renewable failure. Was the driver so stupid he thought a mile on the flat is the same as mile with a 7% incline? Sounds like it. Google maps could compute the kWh for his exact route with pretty good accuracy if they had that capability. I haven\'t heard anything about it- yet.

Google pretty much sucks when it comes to planning a BEV trip. Very inadequate. Tesla, on the other hand, uses the Google map data and does a very good job of it. If you simply want to find chargers, Plugshare is pretty good. ABRP (a better route planner) does a better job than Tesla, in some ways. Tesla only (relatively) recently added waypoints, but still sucks for \"what if\" analysis. ABRP is probably still the best tool over all, but being built into the car is an advantage which is hard to beat.

If Tesla would fix their GD browser, so it doesn\'t crash every five minutes, crashing the display computer with it, you could run ABRP in the car and have the best of both worlds.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Don Y]

On 4/26/2023 8:24 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There
are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the
way designers think they will be.

That\'s true of all technologies -- even mature ones.

Most of the folks that I know who were \"early adopters\"
moved from Teslas to other makes/models... and then back
to ICEs. It\'s just too much \"work\" to plan how you\'re
going to use the vehicle.

OTOH, I can drive 1000 miles... and, 10 minutes later, decide
I want/need to drive 1000 more! As long as my tank will
span the largest \"expanse of desolation\" (e.g., perhaps
crossing the Navajo Nation or Death Valley), I\'m all set.

If I breakdown in the middle of nowhere (even a civilized
place), I don\'t have to wonder if someone LOCAL will be
able to service my vehicle.

I don\'t have to replace my \"fuel tank\" after some handful of
years -- and wonder about how \"leaky\" the replacement might be.

I can keep spare fuel on hand (even if in another vehicle)
to address unforeseen outages.

I can continue to operate the vehicle for *decades* without
incurring high maintenance costs. I can purchase parts
long after the original manufacturer has stopped making
them available -- even from scrap yards for really old
vehicles!

Novelty is quickly giving way to practicality. The original
perceived advantages of EVs seem to be fading -- the big subsidies,
the avoidance of gas taxes, etc. \"All electric\" vehicles will
likely see a smaller niche in the market as folks realize
that their best use is for short hauls where recharging can
be frequent and on the owner\'s terms (e.g., in your own garage).
So, cities and planned communities.

Hybrids will likely be regarded as better value for money
esp in light of the (likely continued) widespread availability
of carbon fuel sources. They make more sense: use the battery
for acceleration and to recover energy from braking. Use
the ICE for steady-state consumption and distance.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 8:30:26 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:

On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 11:24:30 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The first link is to a story about a tow truck driver towing his first EV.
This EV driver would\'ve been ok if he had a hybrid.
https://ijr.com/californian-learns-brutal-lesson-evs-stranded-truck-hauled/
Here\'s a Consumer Reports article about hybrids.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/how-do-hybrid-cars-work-a1034181509/
I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the way designers think they will be.
That was the driver\'s stupidity and not the EV. Of course the right wingnut press loves to jump on a story about a renewable failure. Was the driver so stupid he thought a mile on the flat is the same as mile with a 7% incline? Sounds like it. Google maps could compute the kWh for his exact route with pretty good accuracy if they had that capability. I haven\'t heard anything about it- yet.
Google pretty much sucks when it comes to planning a BEV trip. Very inadequate. Tesla, on the other hand, uses the Google map data and does a very good job of it. If you simply want to find chargers, Plugshare is pretty good. ABRP (a better route planner) does a better job than Tesla, in some ways.. Tesla only (relatively) recently added waypoints, but still sucks for \"what if\" analysis. ABRP is probably still the best tool over all, but being built into the car is an advantage which is hard to beat.

If Tesla would fix their GD browser, so it doesn\'t crash every five minutes, crashing the display computer with it, you could run ABRP in the car and have the best of both worlds.

I\'m talking about using the exact model of EV to incrementally compute and integrate the kWh expenditure at posted speed along the prospective route from origin to destination, with possible stop offs at recharging stations. These other products, especially Tesla, are complete amateurs compared to what google could do. Maybe they don\'t want to contribute to people squandering energy on joy rides, or something.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ed Lee]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 5:32:38 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 8:30:26 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 11:24:30 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The first link is to a story about a tow truck driver towing his first EV.
This EV driver would\'ve been ok if he had a hybrid.
https://ijr.com/californian-learns-brutal-lesson-evs-stranded-truck-hauled/
Here\'s a Consumer Reports article about hybrids.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/how-do-hybrid-cars-work-a1034181509/
I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new.. There are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the way designers think they will be.
That was the driver\'s stupidity and not the EV. Of course the right wingnut press loves to jump on a story about a renewable failure. Was the driver so stupid he thought a mile on the flat is the same as mile with a 7% incline? Sounds like it. Google maps could compute the kWh for his exact route with pretty good accuracy if they had that capability. I haven\'t heard anything about it- yet.
Google pretty much sucks when it comes to planning a BEV trip. Very inadequate. Tesla, on the other hand, uses the Google map data and does a very good job of it. If you simply want to find chargers, Plugshare is pretty good. ABRP (a better route planner) does a better job than Tesla, in some ways. Tesla only (relatively) recently added waypoints, but still sucks for \"what if\" analysis. ABRP is probably still the best tool over all, but being built into the car is an advantage which is hard to beat.

If Tesla would fix their GD browser, so it doesn\'t crash every five minutes, crashing the display computer with it, you could run ABRP in the car and have the best of both worlds.
I\'m talking about using the exact model of EV to incrementally compute and integrate the kWh expenditure at posted speed along the prospective route from origin to destination, with possible stop offs at recharging stations.. These other products, especially Tesla, are complete amateurs compared to what google could do. Maybe they don\'t want to contribute to people squandering energy on joy rides, or something.

For such long trip in EV desert, I would carry a generator. In fact, I have a new (never used) one for years, just for emergency. The problem is that once used, I have to keep using it couple of time per month, to keep it in working order. I wonder if it\'s better to disassembly and clean the gasket after every use.

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 1:56:23 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

On 4/26/2023 8:24 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There
are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the
way designers think they will be.
That\'s true of all technologies -- even mature ones.

Most of the folks that I know who were \"early adopters\"
moved from Teslas to other makes/models... and then back
to ICEs. It\'s just too much \"work\" to plan how you\'re
going to use the vehicle.

OTOH, I can drive 1000 miles... and, 10 minutes later, decide
I want/need to drive 1000 more! As long as my tank will
span the largest \"expanse of desolation\" (e.g., perhaps
crossing the Navajo Nation or Death Valley), I\'m all set.

If I breakdown in the middle of nowhere (even a civilized
place), I don\'t have to wonder if someone LOCAL will be
able to service my vehicle.

I don\'t have to replace my \"fuel tank\" after some handful of
years -- and wonder about how \"leaky\" the replacement might be.

I can keep spare fuel on hand (even if in another vehicle)
to address unforeseen outages.

I can continue to operate the vehicle for *decades* without
incurring high maintenance costs. I can purchase parts
long after the original manufacturer has stopped making
them available -- even from scrap yards for really old
vehicles!

Novelty is quickly giving way to practicality. The original
perceived advantages of EVs seem to be fading -- the big subsidies,
the avoidance of gas taxes, etc. \"All electric\" vehicles will
likely see a smaller niche in the market as folks realize
that their best use is for short hauls where recharging can
be frequent and on the owner\'s terms (e.g., in your own garage).
So, cities and planned communities.

Hybrids will likely be regarded as better value for money
esp in light of the (likely continued) widespread availability
of carbon fuel sources. They make more sense: use the battery
for acceleration and to recover energy from braking. Use
the ICE for steady-state consumption and distance.

I don\'t understand. This is the sort of stuff that normally comes from some kneejerk ultra-conservative who hates anything new. Is this really Don Y?

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 8:32:38 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 8:30:26 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 11:24:30 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The first link is to a story about a tow truck driver towing his first EV.
This EV driver would\'ve been ok if he had a hybrid.
https://ijr.com/californian-learns-brutal-lesson-evs-stranded-truck-hauled/
Here\'s a Consumer Reports article about hybrids.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/how-do-hybrid-cars-work-a1034181509/
I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new.. There are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the way designers think they will be.
That was the driver\'s stupidity and not the EV. Of course the right wingnut press loves to jump on a story about a renewable failure. Was the driver so stupid he thought a mile on the flat is the same as mile with a 7% incline? Sounds like it. Google maps could compute the kWh for his exact route with pretty good accuracy if they had that capability. I haven\'t heard anything about it- yet.
Google pretty much sucks when it comes to planning a BEV trip. Very inadequate. Tesla, on the other hand, uses the Google map data and does a very good job of it. If you simply want to find chargers, Plugshare is pretty good. ABRP (a better route planner) does a better job than Tesla, in some ways. Tesla only (relatively) recently added waypoints, but still sucks for \"what if\" analysis. ABRP is probably still the best tool over all, but being built into the car is an advantage which is hard to beat.

If Tesla would fix their GD browser, so it doesn\'t crash every five minutes, crashing the display computer with it, you could run ABRP in the car and have the best of both worlds.
I\'m talking about using the exact model of EV to incrementally compute and integrate the kWh expenditure at posted speed along the prospective route from origin to destination, with possible stop offs at recharging stations.. These other products, especially Tesla, are complete amateurs compared to what google could do. Maybe they don\'t want to contribute to people squandering energy on joy rides, or something.

I don\'t know if this is an example of another non-BEV owner complaining about some aspect of BEVs, or if this is just Bloggs\' typical ill-informed posting.

What do you think Tesla is doing that is so inferior? Tesla gets any information they want, from millions of Teslas on the road, on every road, all the time, in different times of the day, different weather conditions, different driving styles. Google just has maps and reports of location.

You simply don\'t realize that Tesla is the juggernaut of information about BEVs, that you think Google *could* be. You are mistaken, Google doesn\'t have access to any internal information from the cars. Well, not until they release their car which everyone knows they have in the works. LOL

In the BEV world, Google is the rank amateur, because, like you, they don\'t own a BEV, or have access to data from anyone else\'s.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 10:33:51 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 5:32:38 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 8:30:26 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 11:24:30 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The first link is to a story about a tow truck driver towing his first EV.
This EV driver would\'ve been ok if he had a hybrid.
https://ijr.com/californian-learns-brutal-lesson-evs-stranded-truck-hauled/
Here\'s a Consumer Reports article about hybrids.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/how-do-hybrid-cars-work-a1034181509/
I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the way designers think they will be.
That was the driver\'s stupidity and not the EV. Of course the right wingnut press loves to jump on a story about a renewable failure. Was the driver so stupid he thought a mile on the flat is the same as mile with a 7% incline? Sounds like it. Google maps could compute the kWh for his exact route with pretty good accuracy if they had that capability. I haven\'t heard anything about it- yet.
Google pretty much sucks when it comes to planning a BEV trip. Very inadequate. Tesla, on the other hand, uses the Google map data and does a very good job of it. If you simply want to find chargers, Plugshare is pretty good. ABRP (a better route planner) does a better job than Tesla, in some ways. Tesla only (relatively) recently added waypoints, but still sucks for \"what if\" analysis. ABRP is probably still the best tool over all, but being built into the car is an advantage which is hard to beat.

If Tesla would fix their GD browser, so it doesn\'t crash every five minutes, crashing the display computer with it, you could run ABRP in the car and have the best of both worlds.
I\'m talking about using the exact model of EV to incrementally compute and integrate the kWh expenditure at posted speed along the prospective route from origin to destination, with possible stop offs at recharging stations. These other products, especially Tesla, are complete amateurs compared to what google could do. Maybe they don\'t want to contribute to people squandering energy on joy rides, or something.
For such long trip in EV desert, I would carry a generator. In fact, I have a new (never used) one for years, just for emergency. The problem is that once used, I have to keep using it couple of time per month, to keep it in working order. I wonder if it\'s better to disassembly and clean the gasket after every use.

You are the joke, that everyone makes about BEVs towing a generator, with an extension cord plugged into the car. The key word in all this is \"joke\". Ed Lee stands alone in the BEV world.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Don Y]

On 4/27/2023 7:33 AM, Ed Lee wrote:
> For such long trip in EV desert, I would carry a generator.

They\'ve actually built those generators INTO cars! They call
them hybrids! :>

A neighbor sold her EV as she wasn\'t prepared to spend a week
driving it across the country (instead of 2-3 days).

[I wonder what she bought when she \"arrived\"?]

In fact, I have a new (never used) one for years, just for emergency. The
problem is that once used, I have to keep using it couple of time per month,
to keep it in working order.

You don\'t need to use it that often. Assuming it is gasoline fueled,
you need to either drain the fuel (completely) while it is being
\"stored\" or put some Sta-Bil in the tank to keep the fuel from
turning to gunk.

You also will likely need to avoid ethanol as it wreaks havoc
on small engines. I keep 5G of unleaded gas (*without* ethanol)
for such engines (you have to hunt for a station that sells it)

It\'s probably worthwhile having such capability as you\'d otherwise
be SoL in a power outage.

I wonder if it\'s better to disassembly and
clean the gasket after every use.

If you\'re going to put it on a shelf, then completely drain the
fuel (including the bowl in the carburetor). To be pedantic,
you could also clean the carburetor in case any residue settles in
the jet/needle valve.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 10:52:28 AM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 8:32:38 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 8:30:26 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 11:24:30 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The first link is to a story about a tow truck driver towing his first EV.
This EV driver would\'ve been ok if he had a hybrid.
https://ijr.com/californian-learns-brutal-lesson-evs-stranded-truck-hauled/
Here\'s a Consumer Reports article about hybrids.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/how-do-hybrid-cars-work-a1034181509/
I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the way designers think they will be.
That was the driver\'s stupidity and not the EV. Of course the right wingnut press loves to jump on a story about a renewable failure. Was the driver so stupid he thought a mile on the flat is the same as mile with a 7% incline? Sounds like it. Google maps could compute the kWh for his exact route with pretty good accuracy if they had that capability. I haven\'t heard anything about it- yet.
Google pretty much sucks when it comes to planning a BEV trip. Very inadequate. Tesla, on the other hand, uses the Google map data and does a very good job of it. If you simply want to find chargers, Plugshare is pretty good. ABRP (a better route planner) does a better job than Tesla, in some ways. Tesla only (relatively) recently added waypoints, but still sucks for \"what if\" analysis. ABRP is probably still the best tool over all, but being built into the car is an advantage which is hard to beat.

If Tesla would fix their GD browser, so it doesn\'t crash every five minutes, crashing the display computer with it, you could run ABRP in the car and have the best of both worlds.
I\'m talking about using the exact model of EV to incrementally compute and integrate the kWh expenditure at posted speed along the prospective route from origin to destination, with possible stop offs at recharging stations. These other products, especially Tesla, are complete amateurs compared to what google could do. Maybe they don\'t want to contribute to people squandering energy on joy rides, or something.
I don\'t know if this is an example of another non-BEV owner complaining about some aspect of BEVs, or if this is just Bloggs\' typical ill-informed posting.

What do you think Tesla is doing that is so inferior? Tesla gets any information they want, from millions of Teslas on the road, on every road, all the time, in different times of the day, different weather conditions, different driving styles. Google just has maps and reports of location.

You simply don\'t realize that Tesla is the juggernaut of information about BEVs, that you think Google *could* be. You are mistaken, Google doesn\'t have access to any internal information from the cars. Well, not until they release their car which everyone knows they have in the works. LOL

In the BEV world, Google is the rank amateur, because, like you, they don\'t own a BEV, or have access to data from anyone else\'s.

Tesla is going to have that kind of data on the Rivian truck? I don\'t think so.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:15:43 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

On 4/27/2023 7:33 AM, Ed Lee wrote:
For such long trip in EV desert, I would carry a generator.
They\'ve actually built those generators INTO cars! They call
them hybrids! :

A neighbor sold her EV as she wasn\'t prepared to spend a week
driving it across the country (instead of 2-3 days).

How bizarre! Was she *pushing* the BEV? I\'ve taken trips of 500 miles and only stopped for a hour total, where over half of that was to get a meal. I guess some people just can\'t learn new technology.

Usually, I am pointing out that the people complaining about BEV charging, are people who don\'t actually own a BEV. Well, those and Leaf owners perhaps. I think the max charging rate on the Leaf is only 50 kW. That\'s why Chademo chargers are only 50 kW in the US and probably everywhere.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:22:07 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 10:52:28 AM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 8:32:38 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 8:30:26 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 11:24:30 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The first link is to a story about a tow truck driver towing his first EV.
This EV driver would\'ve been ok if he had a hybrid.
https://ijr.com/californian-learns-brutal-lesson-evs-stranded-truck-hauled/
Here\'s a Consumer Reports article about hybrids.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/how-do-hybrid-cars-work-a1034181509/
I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the way designers think they will be.
That was the driver\'s stupidity and not the EV. Of course the right wingnut press loves to jump on a story about a renewable failure. Was the driver so stupid he thought a mile on the flat is the same as mile with a 7% incline? Sounds like it. Google maps could compute the kWh for his exact route with pretty good accuracy if they had that capability. I haven\'t heard anything about it- yet.
Google pretty much sucks when it comes to planning a BEV trip. Very inadequate. Tesla, on the other hand, uses the Google map data and does a very good job of it. If you simply want to find chargers, Plugshare is pretty good. ABRP (a better route planner) does a better job than Tesla, in some ways. Tesla only (relatively) recently added waypoints, but still sucks for \"what if\" analysis. ABRP is probably still the best tool over all, but being built into the car is an advantage which is hard to beat.

If Tesla would fix their GD browser, so it doesn\'t crash every five minutes, crashing the display computer with it, you could run ABRP in the car and have the best of both worlds.
I\'m talking about using the exact model of EV to incrementally compute and integrate the kWh expenditure at posted speed along the prospective route from origin to destination, with possible stop offs at recharging stations. These other products, especially Tesla, are complete amateurs compared to what google could do. Maybe they don\'t want to contribute to people squandering energy on joy rides, or something.
I don\'t know if this is an example of another non-BEV owner complaining about some aspect of BEVs, or if this is just Bloggs\' typical ill-informed posting.

What do you think Tesla is doing that is so inferior? Tesla gets any information they want, from millions of Teslas on the road, on every road, all the time, in different times of the day, different weather conditions, different driving styles. Google just has maps and reports of location.

You simply don\'t realize that Tesla is the juggernaut of information about BEVs, that you think Google *could* be. You are mistaken, Google doesn\'t have access to any internal information from the cars. Well, not until they release their car which everyone knows they have in the works. LOL

In the BEV world, Google is the rank amateur, because, like you, they don\'t own a BEV, or have access to data from anyone else\'s.
Tesla is going to have that kind of data on the Rivian truck? I don\'t think so.

So you are complaining that Tesla doesn\'t some of the data that Google doesn\'t have???

You have very strange thought processes.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ed Lee]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 8:15:43 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:

On 4/27/2023 7:33 AM, Ed Lee wrote:
For such long trip in EV desert, I would carry a generator.
They\'ve actually built those generators INTO cars! They call
them hybrids! :

But i don\'t need it often. Charging works 90% of the time. Towing works 9% of the time. Generating works 0.9% of the time. So, this cover 99.9% of the time.

A neighbor sold her EV as she wasn\'t prepared to spend a week
driving it across the country (instead of 2-3 days).

[I wonder what she bought when she \"arrived\"?]
In fact, I have a new (never used) one for years, just for emergency. The
problem is that once used, I have to keep using it couple of time per month,
to keep it in working order.
You don\'t need to use it that often. Assuming it is gasoline fueled,
you need to either drain the fuel (completely) while it is being
\"stored\" or put some Sta-Bil in the tank to keep the fuel from
turning to gunk.

You also will likely need to avoid ethanol as it wreaks havoc
on small engines. I keep 5G of unleaded gas (*without* ethanol)
for such engines (you have to hunt for a station that sells it)

Hard to find station/store for pure gasoline.

It\'s probably worthwhile having such capability as you\'d otherwise
be SoL in a power outage.
I wonder if it\'s better to disassembly and
clean the gasket after every use.
If you\'re going to put it on a shelf, then completely drain the
fuel (including the bowl in the carburetor). To be pedantic,
you could also clean the carburetor in case any residue settles in
the jet/needle valve.

Clean with what? Gasoline or Alcohol?

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

torsdag den 27. april 2023 kl. 07.56.23 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:

On 4/26/2023 8:24 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There
are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the
way designers think they will be.
That\'s true of all technologies -- even mature ones.

Most of the folks that I know who were \"early adopters\"
moved from Teslas to other makes/models... and then back
to ICEs. It\'s just too much \"work\" to plan how you\'re
going to use the vehicle.

OTOH, I can drive 1000 miles... and, 10 minutes later, decide
I want/need to drive 1000 more! As long as my tank will
span the largest \"expanse of desolation\" (e.g., perhaps
crossing the Navajo Nation or Death Valley), I\'m all set.

how much amphetamine do you need to make 2000 miles with out breaks?

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

torsdag den 27. april 2023 kl. 16.44.22 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 1:56:23 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/26/2023 8:24 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There
are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the
way designers think they will be.
That\'s true of all technologies -- even mature ones.

Most of the folks that I know who were \"early adopters\"
moved from Teslas to other makes/models... and then back
to ICEs. It\'s just too much \"work\" to plan how you\'re
going to use the vehicle.

OTOH, I can drive 1000 miles... and, 10 minutes later, decide
I want/need to drive 1000 more! As long as my tank will
span the largest \"expanse of desolation\" (e.g., perhaps
crossing the Navajo Nation or Death Valley), I\'m all set.

If I breakdown in the middle of nowhere (even a civilized
place), I don\'t have to wonder if someone LOCAL will be
able to service my vehicle.

I don\'t have to replace my \"fuel tank\" after some handful of
years -- and wonder about how \"leaky\" the replacement might be.

I can keep spare fuel on hand (even if in another vehicle)
to address unforeseen outages.

I can continue to operate the vehicle for *decades* without
incurring high maintenance costs. I can purchase parts
long after the original manufacturer has stopped making
them available -- even from scrap yards for really old
vehicles!

Novelty is quickly giving way to practicality. The original
perceived advantages of EVs seem to be fading -- the big subsidies,
the avoidance of gas taxes, etc. \"All electric\" vehicles will
likely see a smaller niche in the market as folks realize
that their best use is for short hauls where recharging can
be frequent and on the owner\'s terms (e.g., in your own garage).
So, cities and planned communities.

Hybrids will likely be regarded as better value for money
esp in light of the (likely continued) widespread availability
of carbon fuel sources. They make more sense: use the battery
for acceleration and to recover energy from braking. Use
the ICE for steady-state consumption and distance.
I don\'t understand. This is the sort of stuff that normally comes from some kneejerk ultra-conservative who hates anything new. Is this really Don Y?

a wall of text with a long list of imaginary and improbable issues, who else?

 

[Ed Lee]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 7:54:48 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 10:33:51 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 5:32:38 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 8:30:26 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 11:24:30 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The first link is to a story about a tow truck driver towing his first EV.
This EV driver would\'ve been ok if he had a hybrid.
https://ijr.com/californian-learns-brutal-lesson-evs-stranded-truck-hauled/
Here\'s a Consumer Reports article about hybrids.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/how-do-hybrid-cars-work-a1034181509/
I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the way designers think they will be.
That was the driver\'s stupidity and not the EV. Of course the right wingnut press loves to jump on a story about a renewable failure. Was the driver so stupid he thought a mile on the flat is the same as mile with a 7% incline? Sounds like it. Google maps could compute the kWh for his exact route with pretty good accuracy if they had that capability. I haven\'t heard anything about it- yet.
Google pretty much sucks when it comes to planning a BEV trip. Very inadequate. Tesla, on the other hand, uses the Google map data and does a very good job of it. If you simply want to find chargers, Plugshare is pretty good. ABRP (a better route planner) does a better job than Tesla, in some ways. Tesla only (relatively) recently added waypoints, but still sucks for \"what if\" analysis. ABRP is probably still the best tool over all, but being built into the car is an advantage which is hard to beat.

If Tesla would fix their GD browser, so it doesn\'t crash every five minutes, crashing the display computer with it, you could run ABRP in the car and have the best of both worlds.
I\'m talking about using the exact model of EV to incrementally compute and integrate the kWh expenditure at posted speed along the prospective route from origin to destination, with possible stop offs at recharging stations. These other products, especially Tesla, are complete amateurs compared to what google could do. Maybe they don\'t want to contribute to people squandering energy on joy rides, or something.
For such long trip in EV desert, I would carry a generator. In fact, I have a new (never used) one for years, just for emergency. The problem is that once used, I have to keep using it couple of time per month, to keep it in working order. I wonder if it\'s better to disassembly and clean the gasket after every use.
You are the joke, that everyone makes about BEVs towing a generator, with an extension cord plugged into the car. The key word in all this is \"joke\".. Ed Lee stands alone in the BEV world.

It\'s only 30 pounds, no need to tow it, but it take up cargo space and smelly. I can probably put it on roof top.

 

[Ed Lee]

> You also will likely need to avoid ethanol as it wreaks havoc on small engines.

How so? Not enough power? How about adding octant booster?

Kind of defeating the backup purpose, if I can\'t just buy gas on the road.

 

[Don Y]

On 4/27/2023 9:12 AM, Ed Lee wrote:

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 8:15:43 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:33 AM, Ed Lee wrote:
For such long trip in EV desert, I would carry a generator.
They\'ve actually built those generators INTO cars! They call them hybrids!
:

But i don\'t need it often. Charging works 90% of the time. Towing works 9%
of the time. Generating works 0.9% of the time. So, this cover 99.9% of
the time.

But, you can\'t know ahead of time whether or not you\'ll need it.
So, you either take it with or leave it behind; you can\'t
change your mind later! :>

A neighbor sold her EV as she wasn\'t prepared to spend a week driving it
across the country (instead of 2-3 days).

[I wonder what she bought when she \"arrived\"?]
In fact, I have a new (never used) one for years, just for emergency.
The problem is that once used, I have to keep using it couple of time
per month, to keep it in working order.
You don\'t need to use it that often. Assuming it is gasoline fueled, you
need to either drain the fuel (completely) while it is being \"stored\" or
put some Sta-Bil in the tank to keep the fuel from turning to gunk.

You also will likely need to avoid ethanol as it wreaks havoc on small
engines. I keep 5G of unleaded gas (*without* ethanol) for such engines
(you have to hunt for a station that sells it)

Hard to find station/store for pure gasoline.

Dunno about other places. There\'s one nearby so I fill the can
with that knowing that I can always dump it in the car\'s tank
if it\'s been \"sitting\" for too long.

[That being easier/cheaper than putting stabil in the can!]

It\'s probably worthwhile having such capability as you\'d otherwise be SoL
in a power outage.
I wonder if it\'s better to disassembly and clean the gasket after every
use.
If you\'re going to put it on a shelf, then completely drain the fuel
(including the bowl in the carburetor). To be pedantic, you could also
clean the carburetor in case any residue settles in the jet/needle valve.

Clean with what? Gasoline or Alcohol?

I use carb cleaner. But, may try some other products (Purple Power?)
once I have had a chance to do some research. I\'m finding lots of
folks fail to clean their small engine \"appliances\" and end up discarding
them when the carburetor gets gunked up and it won\'t start. Simple
fix lets me inherit otherwise discards!

Most carbs are relatively easy to clean. You have to be careful
about losing small parts and avoid excessive force. And, pay
strict attention to where each bit of hardware came off the
engine (there\'s no guarantee that all the hardware will be
the same size, thread pitch, etc. and no clues telling you
what goes where once it\'s apart! Cameras are great for
documenting teardowns unambiguously!)