Stainless steel stock pot...

M

Mike Monett

Guest
I wonder if a stainless steel stock pot woulr be a useful RFI shield for
low level measurements, such as phase noise measurements.

The pot is available on Amazon and is the cheapest and largest I could
find. Here is the data. A picture is in the link:

Imusa Stainless Steel Stock Pot, 20 Quart

$46.77 FREE delivery July 17 - 18

Material : Stainless Steel
Colour : Silver
Capacity : 18.93 liters
Item dimensions : 37.5 x 28 cm : 37/2.54 = 14.5\" X 11\"

https://www.amazon.ca/Imusa-Stainless-Steel-Stock-Quart/dp/B0018EAMKA/

I am mainly interested in frequencies around 100 MHz. The lid is loose
fitting, but I could get some RF gasketing to make better contact.

The rf source is a local transmitter that obliterates all measurements.

Thanks for any help.

Mike


--
MRM
 
On Friday, 15 July 2022 at 19:29:02 UTC+2, Mike Monett wrote:
I wonder if a stainless steel stock pot woulr be a useful RFI shield for
low level measurements, such as phase noise measurements.

The pot is available on Amazon and is the cheapest and largest I could
find. Here is the data. A picture is in the link:

Imusa Stainless Steel Stock Pot, 20 Quart

$46.77 FREE delivery July 17 - 18

Material : Stainless Steel
Colour : Silver
Capacity : 18.93 liters
Item dimensions : 37.5 x 28 cm : 37/2.54 = 14.5\" X 11\"

https://www.amazon.ca/Imusa-Stainless-Steel-Stock-Quart/dp/B0018EAMKA/

I am mainly interested in frequencies around 100 MHz. The lid is loose
fitting, but I could get some RF gasketing to make better contact.

The rf source is a local transmitter that obliterates all measurements.

Thanks for any help.

Mike


--
MRM
Click to expand...
expensive
 
Mike Monett wrote:
I wonder if a stainless steel stock pot woulr be a useful RFI shield for
low level measurements, such as phase noise measurements.

The pot is available on Amazon and is the cheapest and largest I could
find. Here is the data. A picture is in the link:

Imusa Stainless Steel Stock Pot, 20 Quart

$46.77 FREE delivery July 17 - 18

Material : Stainless Steel
Colour : Silver
Capacity : 18.93 liters
Item dimensions : 37.5 x 28 cm : 37/2.54 = 14.5\" X 11\"

https://www.amazon.ca/Imusa-Stainless-Steel-Stock-Quart/dp/B0018EAMKA/

I am mainly interested in frequencies around 100 MHz. The lid is loose
fitting, but I could get some RF gasketing to make better contact.

The rf source is a local transmitter that obliterates all measurements.

Thanks for any help.

Mike
Click to expand...

If you can get good sealing on the lid, and get signals in and out.

Something like bulkhead-mount BNC F-F adapters for RF, and some
feedthrough caps for slower stuff.

I have a thousand or so Soviet 10 nF feedthroughs that I got on eBay
long ago--since I haven\'t sent your scintillator yet, I\'ll toss a
handful into the box.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 10:29:02 AM UTC-7, Mike Monett wrote:
I wonder if a stainless steel stock pot woulr be a useful RFI shield for
low level measurements, such as phase noise measurements.

The pot is available on Amazon and is the cheapest and largest I could
find.
Click to expand...

Plain old soft tin-plate steel cans, like popcorn treats and saltines come in,
are good; any decent HVAC shop can bend up a galvanized box for you, and
at 100 MHz the seams shouldn\'t be a major problem. A big stock pot
is intermediate-sized by comparison. If you can put battery power inside
the box, and avoid DC/DC converters or clocked logic, that\'s a win.
 
On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 17:28:55 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
wrote:

I wonder if a stainless steel stock pot woulr be a useful RFI shield for
low level measurements, such as phase noise measurements.

The pot is available on Amazon and is the cheapest and largest I could
find. Here is the data. A picture is in the link:

Imusa Stainless Steel Stock Pot, 20 Quart

$46.77 FREE delivery July 17 - 18

Material : Stainless Steel
Colour : Silver
Capacity : 18.93 liters
Item dimensions : 37.5 x 28 cm : 37/2.54 = 14.5\" X 11\"

https://www.amazon.ca/Imusa-Stainless-Steel-Stock-Quart/dp/B0018EAMKA/

I am mainly interested in frequencies around 100 MHz. The lid is loose
fitting, but I could get some RF gasketing to make better contact.

The rf source is a local transmitter that obliterates all measurements.

Thanks for any help.

Mike
Click to expand...

Yes, but not any help for magnetic fields.

You could seal the lid fairly well with a wide strip of copper or
aluminum tape, like the stuff sold at Lowes.

And use it to make chicken broth. No canned junk approaches good
home-made broth.

Too bad it won\'t solder, but you can install SMA or BNC connectors.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2uoeruouhcoz6al/Z482_Can.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/30c6aesh4tzjg56/Z496_Can.jpg?raw=1
 
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in
news:859ca810-27c1-47c5-9dad-76d605fb8554n@googlegroups.com:

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 10:29:02 AM UTC-7, Mike Monett wrote:
I wonder if a stainless steel stock pot woulr be a useful RFI
shield for low level measurements, such as phase noise
measurements.

The pot is available on Amazon and is the cheapest and largest I
could find.

Plain old soft tin-plate steel cans, like popcorn treats and
saltines come in, are good; any decent HVAC shop can bend up a
galvanized box for you, and at 100 MHz the seams shouldn\'t be a
major problem. A big stock pot is intermediate-sized by
comparison. If you can put battery power inside the box, and
avoid DC/DC converters or clocked logic, that\'s a win.
Click to expand...

Without any rf gasketing between the pot and the removeable lid, you
may want to buy a roll of copper tape to seal it up with. Tape it up
after closure remove after testing.
 
John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:ahi3dhllsmv72phkvg9332d659eof1bnph@4ax.com:

On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 17:28:55 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett
spamme@not.com> wrote:

I wonder if a stainless steel stock pot woulr be a useful RFI
shield for low level measurements, such as phase noise
measurements.

The pot is available on Amazon and is the cheapest and largest I
could find. Here is the data. A picture is in the link:

Imusa Stainless Steel Stock Pot, 20 Quart

$46.77 FREE delivery July 17 - 18

Material : Stainless Steel
Colour : Silver
Capacity : 18.93 liters
Item dimensions : 37.5 x 28 cm : 37/2.54 = 14.5\" X 11\"

https://www.amazon.ca/Imusa-Stainless-Steel-Stock-Quart/dp/B0018EAM
KA/

I am mainly interested in frequencies around 100 MHz. The lid is
loose fitting, but I could get some RF gasketing to make better
contact.

The rf source is a local transmitter that obliterates all
measurements.

Thanks for any help.

Mike

Yes, but not any help for magnetic fields.

You could seal the lid fairly well with a wide strip of copper or
aluminum tape, like the stuff sold at Lowes.

And use it to make chicken broth. No canned junk approaches good
home-made broth.

Too bad it won\'t solder, but you can install SMA or BNC
connectors.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2uoeruouhcoz6al/Z482_Can.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/30c6aesh4tzjg56/Z496_Can.jpg?raw=1
Click to expand...

He could line out the pot with 2 inch wide strips of Mu metal.
Even transformer lamination media would work.
 
Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

If you can get good sealing on the lid, and get signals in and out.

Something like bulkhead-mount BNC F-F adapters for RF, and some
feedthrough caps for slower stuff.

I have a thousand or so Soviet 10 nF feedthroughs that I got on eBay
long ago--since I haven\'t sent your scintillator yet, I\'ll toss a
handful into the box.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

Amazon reviewers complain the lid is warped, but it could probably be
straightened. Maybe a weight on the lid might help, and some RF gasketing.

I was planning on BNC\'s, but the shielding on RG-58 is not very good:

\"The state-of-the-art for RF leakage of flexible cables is given as
nominally –40 dBc for a single round wire braid, RG-8 and RG-58, and –60
dBc for double braid outer conductors\", from

https://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/6007-improving-shielding-
effectiveness-of-flexible-coaxial-cables

From previous experience, the first 90% is easy. It\'s the last 10% that
drives you nuts. So with a FM station blasting rock on your doorstep, I
expect a serious fight.

Thanks for the news on the scintillator. I have some good information on
getting it up and running that I will put in a separate post. I know
everyone is just dying to learn how much radon gas is in their basement.

Let me know how much it costs so I can send you the money.

Thanks,

Mike



--
MRM
 
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 10:29:02 AM UTC-7, Mike Monett wrote:
I wonder if a stainless steel stock pot woulr be a useful RFI shield
for low level measurements, such as phase noise measurements.

The pot is available on Amazon and is the cheapest and largest I could
find.

Plain old soft tin-plate steel cans, like popcorn treats and saltines
come in, are good; any decent HVAC shop can bend up a galvanized box for
you, and at 100 MHz the seams shouldn\'t be a major problem. A big
stock pot is intermediate-sized by comparison. If you can put battery
power inside the box, and avoid DC/DC converters or clocked logic,
that\'s a win.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. There will be some noisy things inside the pot, but it\'s
the outside interference that will be difficult. There\'s a FM station not far
away that obliterates all measurements.



--
MRM
 
fredag den 15. juli 2022 kl. 22.20.18 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 17:28:55 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spa...@not.com
wrote:
I wonder if a stainless steel stock pot woulr be a useful RFI shield for
low level measurements, such as phase noise measurements.

The pot is available on Amazon and is the cheapest and largest I could
find. Here is the data. A picture is in the link:

Imusa Stainless Steel Stock Pot, 20 Quart

$46.77 FREE delivery July 17 - 18

Material : Stainless Steel
Colour : Silver
Capacity : 18.93 liters
Item dimensions : 37.5 x 28 cm : 37/2.54 = 14.5\" X 11\"

https://www.amazon.ca/Imusa-Stainless-Steel-Stock-Quart/dp/B0018EAMKA/

I am mainly interested in frequencies around 100 MHz. The lid is loose
fitting, but I could get some RF gasketing to make better contact.

The rf source is a local transmitter that obliterates all measurements.

Thanks for any help.

Mike
Yes, but not any help for magnetic fields.

You could seal the lid fairly well with a wide strip of copper or
aluminum tape, like the stuff sold at Lowes.

And use it to make chicken broth. No canned junk approaches good
home-made broth.

Too bad it won\'t solder, but you can install SMA or BNC connectors.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2uoeruouhcoz6al/Z482_Can.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/30c6aesh4tzjg56/Z496_Can.jpg?raw=1
Click to expand...

with a more aggressive fluss stainless solder easily with a normal soldering iron and solder

but it is probably not easy to something as substantial as a pot hot enough without melting the connector

much easier to get some of these:

https://www.amazon.com/outstanding-SMA-Female-Waterproof-Bulkhead-Connector/dp/B07BXZ2NDV
 
On 2022-07-15, Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote:
I wonder if a stainless steel stock pot woulr be a useful RFI shield for
low level measurements, such as phase noise measurements.
Click to expand...

Is there a reason why you\'re not considering paint cans?

--
Jasen.
 
On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 1:40:07 PM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:859ca810-27c1-47c5...@googlegroups.com:
On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 10:29:02 AM UTC-7, Mike Monett wrote:
I wonder if a stainless steel stock pot woulr be a useful RFI
shield for low level measurements, such as phase noise
measurements.
Click to expand...

Plain old soft tin-plate steel cans, like popcorn treats and
saltines come in, are good; any decent HVAC shop can bend up a
galvanized box for you, and at 100 MHz the seams shouldn\'t be a
major problem. A big stock pot is intermediate-sized by
comparison. If you can put battery power inside the box, and
avoid DC/DC converters or clocked logic, that\'s a win.

Without any rf gasketing between the pot and the removeable lid, you
may want to buy a roll of copper tape to seal it up with. Tape it up
after closure remove after testing.
Click to expand...

Or, have the lid brazed into its seat; build a bolt-able flange door into the flat kettle bottom, if easy entry
is required. A domed lid wouldn\'t be easy to seal. I wonder if a salt-water bath containing
the lid would be good enough conductivity, just drop the kettle on top of that... quick and dirty.

There once was a reciprocating mechanism to be fitted to a motor, that we just terminated in
a brass cup. The motor got a brass ball, and we soft-soldered \'em to connect (and disconnected
with a torch). We liked rigidity with minimal moving mass.
 
Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

[...]

with a more aggressive fluss stainless solder easily with a normal
soldering iron and solder

but it is probably not easy to something as substantial as a pot hot
enough without melting the connector

much easier to get some of these:

https://www.amazon.com/outstanding-SMA-Female-Waterproof-Bulkhead-Connect
or/dp/B07BXZ2NDV
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link on SMA.

The problem with RG-58 is it only gives 40-60dB of attenuation to leakage:

https://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/6007-improving-shielding-
effectiveness-of-flexible-coaxial-cables

There are a few manufacturers of coax with foil plus braid shield. It\'s not
expensive. I\'ll get some and try it:

https://www.pimfg.com/product-detail/RG-58-U
https://www.summitsource.com/RG-58-Dual-Shielded-C646.aspx
https://www.tessco.com/product/rg58-size-coaxial-cable-10849

Thanks,

Mike




--
MRM
 
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

Or, have the lid brazed into its seat; build a bolt-able flange door
into the flat kettle bottom, if easy entry is required. A domed lid
wouldn\'t be easy to seal. I wonder if a salt-water bath containing
the lid would be good enough conductivity, just drop the kettle on top
of that... quick and dirty.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the idea. There\'s plenty of RF gasket available.




--
MRM
 
On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 20:42:45 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:ahi3dhllsmv72phkvg9332d659eof1bnph@4ax.com:

On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 17:28:55 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett
spamme@not.com> wrote:

I wonder if a stainless steel stock pot woulr be a useful RFI
shield for low level measurements, such as phase noise
measurements.

The pot is available on Amazon and is the cheapest and largest I
could find. Here is the data. A picture is in the link:

Imusa Stainless Steel Stock Pot, 20 Quart

$46.77 FREE delivery July 17 - 18

Material : Stainless Steel
Colour : Silver
Capacity : 18.93 liters
Item dimensions : 37.5 x 28 cm : 37/2.54 = 14.5\" X 11\"

https://www.amazon.ca/Imusa-Stainless-Steel-Stock-Quart/dp/B0018EAM
KA/

I am mainly interested in frequencies around 100 MHz. The lid is
loose fitting, but I could get some RF gasketing to make better
contact.

The rf source is a local transmitter that obliterates all
measurements.

Thanks for any help.

Mike

Yes, but not any help for magnetic fields.

You could seal the lid fairly well with a wide strip of copper or
aluminum tape, like the stuff sold at Lowes.

And use it to make chicken broth. No canned junk approaches good
home-made broth.

Too bad it won\'t solder, but you can install SMA or BNC
connectors.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2uoeruouhcoz6al/Z482_Can.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/30c6aesh4tzjg56/Z496_Can.jpg?raw=1

He could line out the pot with 2 inch wide strips of Mu metal.
Even transformer lamination media would work.
Click to expand...

It\'s really hard to shield a substantial volume from low frequency mag
fields. A chunky steel Hoffman box is basically transparent. Mumetal
foil is useless.

Thick copper eddy-current shielding sort of works, but that ss pot
won\'t do much.
 
On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:21:28 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

fredag den 15. juli 2022 kl. 22.20.18 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 17:28:55 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spa...@not.com
wrote:
I wonder if a stainless steel stock pot woulr be a useful RFI shield for
low level measurements, such as phase noise measurements.

The pot is available on Amazon and is the cheapest and largest I could
find. Here is the data. A picture is in the link:

Imusa Stainless Steel Stock Pot, 20 Quart

$46.77 FREE delivery July 17 - 18

Material : Stainless Steel
Colour : Silver
Capacity : 18.93 liters
Item dimensions : 37.5 x 28 cm : 37/2.54 = 14.5\" X 11\"

https://www.amazon.ca/Imusa-Stainless-Steel-Stock-Quart/dp/B0018EAMKA/

I am mainly interested in frequencies around 100 MHz. The lid is loose
fitting, but I could get some RF gasketing to make better contact.

The rf source is a local transmitter that obliterates all measurements.

Thanks for any help.

Mike
Yes, but not any help for magnetic fields.

You could seal the lid fairly well with a wide strip of copper or
aluminum tape, like the stuff sold at Lowes.

And use it to make chicken broth. No canned junk approaches good
home-made broth.

Too bad it won\'t solder, but you can install SMA or BNC connectors.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2uoeruouhcoz6al/Z482_Can.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/30c6aesh4tzjg56/Z496_Can.jpg?raw=1

with a more aggressive fluss stainless solder easily with a normal soldering iron and solder

but it is probably not easy to something as substantial as a pot hot enough without melting the connector

much easier to get some of these:

https://www.amazon.com/outstanding-SMA-Female-Waterproof-Bulkhead-Connector/dp/B07BXZ2NDV
Click to expand...

Those are cool. You can screw an SMA lowpass filter or attenuator on
one side for better isolation.
 
On Sat, 16 Jul 2022 04:37:51 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
wrote:

Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

[...]

with a more aggressive fluss stainless solder easily with a normal
soldering iron and solder

but it is probably not easy to something as substantial as a pot hot
enough without melting the connector

much easier to get some of these:

https://www.amazon.com/outstanding-SMA-Female-Waterproof-Bulkhead-Connect
or/dp/B07BXZ2NDV

Thanks for the link on SMA.

The problem with RG-58 is it only gives 40-60dB of attenuation to leakage:

https://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/6007-improving-shielding-
effectiveness-of-flexible-coaxial-cables

There are a few manufacturers of coax with foil plus braid shield. It\'s not
expensive. I\'ll get some and try it:

https://www.pimfg.com/product-detail/RG-58-U
https://www.summitsource.com/RG-58-Dual-Shielded-C646.aspx
https://www.tessco.com/product/rg58-size-coaxial-cable-10849

Thanks,

Mike
Click to expand...

Tinned braid coax, semi-hardline, is great. ebay has assortments,
probably pulled from old RF gear or leftover custom stuff.
 
On Sat, 16 Jul 2022 01:57:27 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
<usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

On 2022-07-15, Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote:
I wonder if a stainless steel stock pot woulr be a useful RFI shield for
low level measurements, such as phase noise measurements.

Is there a reason why you\'re not considering paint cans?
Click to expand...

Danish butter cookies and chocolates taste better than paint.
 
John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 17:28:55 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com
wrote:

I wonder if a stainless steel stock pot woulr be a useful RFI shield for
low level measurements, such as phase noise measurements.

The pot is available on Amazon and is the cheapest and largest I could
find. Here is the data. A picture is in the link:

Imusa Stainless Steel Stock Pot, 20 Quart

$46.77 FREE delivery July 17 - 18

Material : Stainless Steel
Colour : Silver
Capacity : 18.93 liters
Item dimensions : 37.5 x 28 cm : 37/2.54 = 14.5\" X 11\"

https://www.amazon.ca/Imusa-Stainless-Steel-Stock-Quart/dp/B0018EAMKA/

I am mainly interested in frequencies around 100 MHz. The lid is loose
fitting, but I could get some RF gasketing to make better contact.

The rf source is a local transmitter that obliterates all measurements.

Thanks for any help.

Mike

Yes, but not any help for magnetic fields.

You could seal the lid fairly well with a wide strip of copper or
aluminum tape, like the stuff sold at Lowes.

And use it to make chicken broth. No canned junk approaches good
home-made broth.

Too bad it won\'t solder, but you can install SMA or BNC connectors.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2uoeruouhcoz6al/Z482_Can.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/30c6aesh4tzjg56/Z496_Can.jpg?raw=1
Click to expand...

If your gizmo will fit, gallon paint cans are a lot cheaper and have
really excellent RF sealing.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
 
Mike Monett wrote:
Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

If you can get good sealing on the lid, and get signals in and out.

Something like bulkhead-mount BNC F-F adapters for RF, and some
feedthrough caps for slower stuff.

I have a thousand or so Soviet 10 nF feedthroughs that I got on eBay
long ago--since I haven\'t sent your scintillator yet, I\'ll toss a
handful into the box.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Thanks for the reply.

Amazon reviewers complain the lid is warped, but it could probably be
straightened. Maybe a weight on the lid might help, and some RF gasketing.

I was planning on BNC\'s, but the shielding on RG-58 is not very good:

\"The state-of-the-art for RF leakage of flexible cables is given as
nominally –40 dBc for a single round wire braid, RG-8 and RG-58, and –60
dBc for double braid outer conductors\", from

https://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/6007-improving-shielding-
effectiveness-of-flexible-coaxial-cables

From previous experience, the first 90% is easy. It\'s the last 10% that
drives you nuts. So with a FM station blasting rock on your doorstep, I
expect a serious fight.

Thanks for the news on the scintillator. I have some good information on
getting it up and running that I will put in a separate post. I know
everyone is just dying to learn how much radon gas is in their basement.

Let me know how much it costs so I can send you the money.
Click to expand...

Nah, no worries--it\'s very short money. We techies have to stick
together. I\'ll send it Monday.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
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