SS can't find model?

A

Active8

Guest
..SUBCKT NPN1_XN _ssi_pin0_1 _ssi_pin1_2 _ssi_pin2_3_XN
* _SS_Symbol [some_drive:\some_dir\bjt.mdc.ssm] [NPN]
Q1 1 2 3 #SUB N1
V_ssi_pin2 _ssi_pin2_3 3 0
V_ssi_pin1 _ssi_pin1_2 2 0
V_ssi_pin0 _ssi_pin0_1 1 0
Q2 #SUB 1 2 #SUB P1
D1 2 3 DZ
D2 #SUB 1 DCS
C1 #SUB #SUB2 1E-12
..ENDS

..MODEL N1_XN NPN(IS=0.38f BF=220 BR=700m ISE=0.18f IKF=17m NK=750m
IKR=30m NE=1.4
+ VAF=60 VAR=7 RC=63.4 RB=300 RE=19.7 XTB=1.17 XTI=5.4 TF=150p
+ TR=6n XTF=300m VTF=6 ITF=50u CJE=210f MJE=330m VJE=700m ISC=5p
+ KF=200f AF=1.4)

Sumthin' wrong here? The simulator can't find model N1 or P1. P1's
there, I just didn't include it here. Same for DZ and DCS. The
output says "default assumed" but I think it aborts, whatever
"default" is, anyway.
--
Best Regards,
Mike
 
El Active8 wrote:

Sumthin' wrong here? The simulator can't find model N1 or P1. P1's
there, I just didn't include it here. Same for DZ and DCS. The
output says "default assumed" but I think it aborts, whatever
"default" is, anyway.
Click to expand...
Try change references on original SUBCKT, from N1 and P1, to N1_XN and
P1_XN.

(one thing I despise on SS is this of adding _XN on models. I think SS
could just assume that model without _?? is plain model without worst
case models)

[]s
--
Chaos MasterŽ, posting from Canoas, Brazil - 29.55° S / 51.11° W (GMT -2
(BRST) / GMT -3 (BRT))

"Two of the most famous products of Berkeley are LSD and Unix. I don't
think that this is a coincidence." -- Anonymous
 
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 00:57:40 -0200, Chaos Master wrote:

El Active8 wrote:

Sumthin' wrong here? The simulator can't find model N1 or P1. P1's
there, I just didn't include it here. Same for DZ and DCS. The
output says "default assumed" but I think it aborts, whatever
"default" is, anyway.

Try change references on original SUBCKT, from N1 and P1, to N1_XN and
P1_XN.
Click to expand...
I did all that.
(one thing I despise on SS is this of adding _XN on models. I think SS
could just assume that model without _?? is plain model without worst
case models)
Click to expand...
I don't know wtf it's there for. Pity too, 'cause SS is the only CAD
that comes close to digesting this file. SIMetrix doesn't find the
subckts, just the models and the file was written *for* SIMetrix by
Hans Camenzind. Recently!

Assuming this gets figgered out, that Cap in the subcircuit is
across part of a substrate subckt, i.e., a 1 ohm resistor. It causes
a singular matrix. 1 pf || 1 ohm. increasing GMINSTEPS and SRCSTEPS
doesn't help either.

--
Best Regards,
Mike
 
Chaos Master wrote:
El Active8 wrote:

Sumthin' wrong here? The simulator can't find model N1 or P1. P1's
there, I just didn't include it here. Same for DZ and DCS. The
output says "default assumed" but I think it aborts, whatever
"default" is, anyway.

Try change references on original SUBCKT, from N1 and P1, to N1_XN and
P1_XN.

(one thing I despise on SS is this of adding _XN on models. I think SS
could just assume that model without _?? is plain model without worst
case models)
Click to expand...
SuperSpice does this, in part, to make WC/MC automatic with no hassle
from the user. There are other issues, which make this approach a
sensible way to do things. Methods are always a trade off.

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
 
El Kevin Aylward wrote:

SuperSpice does this, in part, to make WC/MC automatic with no hassle
from the user. There are other issues, which make this approach a
sensible way to do things. Methods are always a trade off.
Click to expand...
I understand this, but why don't you consider adding option to disable
this?

Some users aren't going to use WC/MC, after all.

[]s
--
Chaos MasterŽ, posting from Canoas, Brazil - 29.55° S / 51.11° W

"People told me I can't dress like a fairy.
I say, I'm in a rock band and I can do what the hell I want!"
-- Amy Lee

NOTE: messages are automatically sent after 00:00AM! I'm on dial-up!
 
Chaos Master wrote:
El Kevin Aylward wrote:

SuperSpice does this, in part, to make WC/MC automatic with no hassle
from the user. There are other issues, which make this approach a
sensible way to do things. Methods are always a trade off.

I understand this, but why don't you consider adding option to disable
this?
Click to expand...
Because its too ingrained all over the code now.

Some users aren't going to use WC/MC, after all.
Click to expand...
For the most part, one doesn't even look at the models. I'm still not
sure just why this is an issue. Its just a name. The schematic labels
for the symbol don't have to show the extra bit.

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
 
Active8 wrote:

Why not email me direct?

.SUBCKT NPN1_XN _ssi_pin0_1 _ssi_pin1_2 _ssi_pin2_3_XN
* _SS_Symbol [some_drive:\some_dir\bjt.mdc.ssm] [NPN]
Q1 1 2 3 #SUB N1
V_ssi_pin2 _ssi_pin2_3 3 0
V_ssi_pin1 _ssi_pin1_2 2 0
V_ssi_pin0 _ssi_pin0_1 1 0
Q2 #SUB 1 2 #SUB P1
D1 2 3 DZ
D2 #SUB 1 DCS
C1 #SUB #SUB2 1E-12
.ENDS

.MODEL N1_XN NPN(IS=0.38f BF=220 BR=700m ISE=0.18f IKF=17m NK=750m
IKR=30m NE=1.4
+ VAF=60 VAR=7 RC=63.4 RB=300 RE=19.7 XTB=1.17 XTI=5.4 TF=150p
+ TR=6n XTF=300m VTF=6 ITF=50u CJE=210f MJE=330m VJE=700m ISC=5p
+ KF=200f AF=1.4)

Sumthin' wrong here? The simulator can't find model N1 or P1. P1's
there, I just didn't include it here. Same for DZ and DCS. The
output says "default assumed" but I think it aborts, whatever
"default" is, anyway.
Click to expand...

You need to put all the .models that a .subckt references in the that
..subckt.

SS works a bit differently. It doesn't pass on the whole model files to
the engine, only what's required.

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
 
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 07:40:30 GMT, Kevin Aylward wrote:

Active8 wrote:

Why not email me direct?

.SUBCKT NPN1_XN _ssi_pin0_1 _ssi_pin1_2 _ssi_pin2_3_XN
* _SS_Symbol [some_drive:\some_dir\bjt.mdc.ssm] [NPN]
Q1 1 2 3 #SUB N1
V_ssi_pin2 _ssi_pin2_3 3 0
V_ssi_pin1 _ssi_pin1_2 2 0
V_ssi_pin0 _ssi_pin0_1 1 0
Q2 #SUB 1 2 #SUB P1
D1 2 3 DZ
D2 #SUB 1 DCS
C1 #SUB #SUB2 1E-12
.ENDS

.MODEL N1_XN NPN(IS=0.38f BF=220 BR=700m ISE=0.18f IKF=17m NK=750m
IKR=30m NE=1.4
+ VAF=60 VAR=7 RC=63.4 RB=300 RE=19.7 XTB=1.17 XTI=5.4 TF=150p
+ TR=6n XTF=300m VTF=6 ITF=50u CJE=210f MJE=330m VJE=700m ISC=5p
+ KF=200f AF=1.4)

Sumthin' wrong here? The simulator can't find model N1 or P1. P1's
there, I just didn't include it here. Same for DZ and DCS. The
output says "default assumed" but I think it aborts, whatever
"default" is, anyway.

You need to put all the .models that a .subckt references in the that
.subckt.
Click to expand...
Doesn't that really f people up? I've seen enough model files where
a bunch of subckts reference a common model to think that might be a
PITA.

..library in each subckt?

So what does SS do when it ignores an unrecognized paameter like 5p
or nk=750m?

It looks like it runs - DC sweep. But the graph is a blank. Connect
an NPN as a diode with an R and sweep the DC supply. How do I ask SS
for the collector current?
--
Best Regards,
Mike
 
Active8 wrote:
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 07:40:30 GMT, Kevin Aylward wrote:

Active8 wrote:

Why not email me direct?

.SUBCKT NPN1_XN _ssi_pin0_1 _ssi_pin1_2 _ssi_pin2_3_XN
* _SS_Symbol [some_drive:\some_dir\bjt.mdc.ssm] [NPN]
Q1 1 2 3 #SUB N1
V_ssi_pin2 _ssi_pin2_3 3 0
V_ssi_pin1 _ssi_pin1_2 2 0
V_ssi_pin0 _ssi_pin0_1 1 0
Q2 #SUB 1 2 #SUB P1
D1 2 3 DZ
D2 #SUB 1 DCS
C1 #SUB #SUB2 1E-12
.ENDS

.MODEL N1_XN NPN(IS=0.38f BF=220 BR=700m ISE=0.18f IKF=17m NK=750m
IKR=30m NE=1.4
+ VAF=60 VAR=7 RC=63.4 RB=300 RE=19.7 XTB=1.17 XTI=5.4 TF=150p
+ TR=6n XTF=300m VTF=6 ITF=50u CJE=210f MJE=330m VJE=700m ISC=5p
+ KF=200f AF=1.4)

Sumthin' wrong here? The simulator can't find model N1 or P1. P1's
there, I just didn't include it here. Same for DZ and DCS. The
output says "default assumed" but I think it aborts, whatever
"default" is, anyway.

You need to put all the .models that a .subckt references in the that
.subckt.

Doesn't that really f people up?
Click to expand...
Sometimes. As far as all the supplied libraries, they should all work.
In 6 years, I think this is the first time that its cropped up.

Of course you can manually use the automatically included include file
to paste any standard spice stuff to pass completely on to the engine
bypassing the SS mechanisms. The issue is that SS does various bits of
pre-processing before passing it on to the engine.

I've seen enough model files where
a bunch of subckts reference a common model to think that might be a
PITA.

.library in each subckt?

So what does SS do when it ignores an unrecognized paameter like 5p
or nk=750m?
Click to expand...
The ignoring parameter bit is right in the engine, not SS. Ignored
parameters, are well, ignored.

It looks like it runs - DC sweep. But the graph is a blank. Connect
an NPN as a diode with an R and sweep the DC supply. How do I ask SS
for the collector current?
Click to expand...
Oh dear...trivial.

1) Place a test point so that its pin connects to the device pin.

or

2) alt-click on a device pin.

or

3) Put SS into probe mode, then just clik on pin

4) Use the "Signals" tab (docked window on left) and click on the signal
name in the list.

If you place the test point on the device or click the device itself,
you get power plots.


You can still email me direct, you will get a faster response. Remove
the extract below.

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
 
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