Splitting 240V

[Stumpy]

I've got a junction box with some 1953 sheathed cable feeding it. Looks
like asbestos fiber sheath with silver spray paint on the exterior. Only 2
wires, both black. Measures 240V rms.

Leaving the junction box are some armored cables containing 2 wires each,
one black, one white. They also put out 240V rms. There are no neutral
wires or ground wires that I can see. The armored cable is well grounded
however.

I had expected that the black/white pairs were 120V, but they are not.

How bad an idea would it be to choose either the black or white wire and
connect it to the hot side of a 120V outlet, and then connect the neutral
side of the outlet to the armored cable?

And yes, I will call an electrician if I start to feel dangerous.

 

[Doug Miller]

"Stumpy" <perilmung@spamnet.corn> wrote in
news:Er2dnWrlee_X8SLPnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@earthlink.com:

I've got a junction box with some 1953 sheathed cable feeding it. Looks
like asbestos fiber sheath with silver spray paint on the exterior. Only 2
wires, both black. Measures 240V rms.

Leaving the junction box are some armored cables containing 2 wires each,
one black, one white. They also put out 240V rms. There are no neutral
wires or ground wires that I can see. The armored cable is well grounded
however.

I had expected that the black/white pairs were 120V, but they are not.

How bad an idea would it be to choose either the black or white wire and
connect it to the hot side of a 120V outlet, and then connect the neutral
side of the outlet to the armored cable?

*Very* bad. The cable armor will then become electrically live whenever the circuit is in use.

And yes, I will call an electrician if I start to feel dangerous.

That's not the right standard. You need to call an electrician if you start to *act* dangerous.

And you're at that point now. What you propose doing is potentially deadly.

 

[Maynard A. Philbrook Jr.]

In article <Er2dnWrlee_X8SLPnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
perilmung@spamnet.corn says...

I've got a junction box with some 1953 sheathed cable feeding it. Looks
like asbestos fiber sheath with silver spray paint on the exterior. Only 2
wires, both black. Measures 240V rms.

Shouldn't be asbestos, most likely cloth wrap wire. Very common back
then and put inside of BX (armor).

Leaving the junction box are some armored cables containing 2 wires each,
one black, one white. They also put out 240V rms. There are no neutral
wires or ground wires that I can see. The armored cable is well grounded
however.

THat does not sound correct, are you in the US? or some 240 land
country?

> I had expected that the black/white pairs were 120V, but they are not.

Measure from the ground to each lead, see if you're getting 120v then..

How bad an idea would it be to choose either the black or white wire and
connect it to the hot side of a 120V outlet, and then connect the neutral
side of the outlet to the armored cable?

It's possible that one particular line was wired for something like a
hot water heater or something that needed 230 volts.

> And yes, I will call an electrician if I start to feel dangerous.

Look on the box and see if the black and white are both going to the L1
and L2 legs, not ground/neutral. If so, it was wired for a 230 volt
application. Simply move the white wire over to the ground bus at the
panel..

Jamie

 

[Stumpy]

I've got a junction box with some 1953 sheathed cable feeding it. Looks
like asbestos fiber sheath with silver spray paint on the exterior. Only
2
wires, both black. Measures 240V rms.

Shouldn't be asbestos, most likely cloth wrap wire. Very common back
then and put inside of BX (armor).

Leaving the junction box are some armored cables containing 2 wires each,
one black, one white. They also put out 240V rms. There are no neutral
wires or ground wires that I can see. The armored cable is well grounded
however.
THat does not sound correct, are you in the US? or some 240 land
country?

This is USA.

I had expected that the black/white pairs were 120V, but they are not.

Measure from the ground to each lead, see if you're getting 120v then..

Measures 110v from each to ground

How bad an idea would it be to choose either the black or white wire and
connect it to the hot side of a 120V outlet, and then connect the neutral
side of the outlet to the armored cable?

It's possible that one particular line was wired for something like a
hot water heater or something that needed 230 volts.

And yes, I will call an electrician if I start to feel dangerous.

Look on the box and see if the black and white are both going to the L1
and L2 legs, not ground/neutral. If so, it was wired for a 230 volt
application. Simply move the white wire over to the ground bus at the
panel..

Jamie

This was a circuit that in hindsight was definitely 230/240v.

Was hoping to not do any work at the panel, because I'm not sure what else
is on that line. Wanted to just split the 240 at the terminal end.

 

[Dean Hoffman]

On 12/28/13 6:26 PM, Stumpy wrote:

I've got a junction box with some 1953 sheathed cable feeding it. Looks
like asbestos fiber sheath with silver spray paint on the exterior.
Only 2 wires, both black. Measures 240V rms.

Leaving the junction box are some armored cables containing 2 wires
each, one black, one white. They also put out 240V rms. There are no
neutral wires or ground wires that I can see. The armored cable is well
grounded however.

I had expected that the black/white pairs were 120V, but they are not.

How bad an idea would it be to choose either the black or white wire and
connect it to the hot side of a 120V outlet, and then connect the
neutral side of the outlet to the armored cable?

And yes, I will call an electrician if I start to feel dangerous.

A small transformer might be an alternative to replacing a lot of
wiring etc.

 

[John G]

It happens that Dean Hoffman formulated :

On 12/28/13 6:26 PM, Stumpy wrote:
I've got a junction box with some 1953 sheathed cable feeding it. Looks
like asbestos fiber sheath with silver spray paint on the exterior.
Only 2 wires, both black. Measures 240V rms.

Leaving the junction box are some armored cables containing 2 wires
each, one black, one white. They also put out 240V rms. There are no
neutral wires or ground wires that I can see. The armored cable is well
grounded however.

I had expected that the black/white pairs were 120V, but they are not.

How bad an idea would it be to choose either the black or white wire and
connect it to the hot side of a 120V outlet, and then connect the
neutral side of the outlet to the armored cable?

And yes, I will call an electrician if I start to feel dangerous.

A small transformer might be an alternative to replacing a lot of
wiring etc.

A small transformer will not be TO CODE.

Get an electrician and do it properly :')

--
John G

 

[Stumpy]

<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2ivub9p236jdrtlrl1dfu7jnmlbgl76ckc@4ax.com...

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:26:50 -0800, "Stumpy" <perilmung@spamnet.corn
wrote:

I've got a junction box with some 1953 sheathed cable feeding it. Looks
like asbestos fiber sheath with silver spray paint on the exterior. Only
2
wires, both black. Measures 240V rms.

Leaving the junction box are some armored cables containing 2 wires each,
one black, one white. They also put out 240V rms. There are no neutral
wires or ground wires that I can see. The armored cable is well grounded
however.

I had expected that the black/white pairs were 120V, but they are not.

How bad an idea would it be to choose either the black or white wire and
connect it to the hot side of a 120V outlet, and then connect the neutral
side of the outlet to the armored cable?

And yes, I will call an electrician if I start to feel dangerous.

If you are not using the 240v, re identify one of the wires white
(tape works) at both ends and connect that one to the neutral bus in
the panel. You then made a 120v circuit from the 240v circuit.

All right. I'm getting the impression that the right way to do this is to
change it at the panel. It's a 1953 panel and I'm reluctant to even open it
up right now. The extension cord solution is OK for now, hardwire later.

 

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:26:50 -0800, "Stumpy" <perilmung@spamnet.corn>
wrote:

I've got a junction box with some 1953 sheathed cable feeding it. Looks
like asbestos fiber sheath with silver spray paint on the exterior. Only 2
wires, both black. Measures 240V rms.

Leaving the junction box are some armored cables containing 2 wires each,
one black, one white. They also put out 240V rms. There are no neutral
wires or ground wires that I can see. The armored cable is well grounded
however.

I had expected that the black/white pairs were 120V, but they are not.

How bad an idea would it be to choose either the black or white wire and
connect it to the hot side of a 120V outlet, and then connect the neutral
side of the outlet to the armored cable?

And yes, I will call an electrician if I start to feel dangerous.

DO NOT use safety ground as neutral!!!!!!
100% against code - for good reason

 

[Fred Abse]

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:26:50 -0800, Stumpy wrote:

I've got a junction box with some 1953 sheathed cable feeding it. Looks
like asbestos fiber sheath with silver spray paint on the exterior. Only
2 wires, both black. Measures 240V rms.

Leaving the junction box are some armored cables containing 2 wires each,
one black, one white. They also put out 240V rms. There are no neutral
wires or ground wires that I can see. The armored cable is well grounded
however.

I had expected that the black/white pairs were 120V, but they are not.

How bad an idea would it be to choose either the black or white wire and
connect it to the hot side of a 120V outlet, and then connect the neutral
side of the outlet to the armored cable?

And yes, I will call an electrician if I start to feel dangerous.

I think you mean "endangered".

Having read your post, I think you are already dangerous.

--
"Design is the reverse of analysis"
(R.D. Middlebrook)

 

[Stormin Mormon]

On 12/29/2013 10:08 AM, Fred Abse wrote:

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:26:50 -0800, Stumpy wrote:

How bad an idea would it be to choose either the black or white wire and
connect it to the hot side of a 120V outlet, and then connect the neutral
side of the outlet to the armored cable?

And yes, I will call an electrician if I start to feel dangerous.

I think you mean "endangered".

Having read your post, I think you are already dangerous.

I don't think Miss Manners would have used
that choice of wording. But, the sentiment
is there. And, I agree.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

 

[Stumpy]

And yes, I will call an electrician if I start to feel dangerous.

I think you mean "endangered".

Having read your post, I think you are already dangerous.

--
"Design is the reverse of analysis"
(R.D. Middlebrook)

Hopefully only to myself. I think and talk about many more things than I
actually do. I try to avoid undo risk.

 

[Maynard A. Philbrook Jr.]

In article <qdadnX_-MYSX9F3PnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
perilmung@spamnet.corn says...

And yes, I will call an electrician if I start to feel dangerous.

I think you mean "endangered".

Having read your post, I think you are already dangerous.

--
"Design is the reverse of analysis"
(R.D. Middlebrook)

Hopefully only to myself. I think and talk about many more things than I
actually do. I try to avoid undo risk.

Be careful there, if you have any assets that are worth anything, the
managers or those loony bins, old age homes, are looking for people like
you!

They just love to take the family farm, accounts and maybe your
deformed buddy down the road, if there is any money in it for them!

Who was that you were talking to?

Jamie

 

On Saturday, December 28, 2013 4:26:50 PM UTC-8, Stumpy wrote:

I've got a junction box with some 1953 sheathed cable feeding it. Looks

like asbestos fiber sheath with silver spray paint on the exterior. Only 2

wires, both black. Measures 240V rms.



Leaving the junction box are some armored cables containing 2 wires each,

one black, one white. They also put out 240V rms. There are no neutral

wires or ground wires that I can see. The armored cable is well grounded

however.



I had expected that the black/white pairs were 120V, but they are not.



How bad an idea would it be to choose either the black or white wire and

connect it to the hot side of a 120V outlet, and then connect the neutral

side of the outlet to the armored cable?



And yes, I will call an electrician if I start to feel dangerous.
The Best way would be to change it at the panel, but if you are looking for a basic band-aid depending on the planned load (Device) that you plan on plugging in, you could get a European voltage adapter to plug your device into, and power it that way with the euro-voltage converter, but that is basically a transformer system in most cases.

 

[John Fields]

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 14:34:20 -0800 (PST), tom@ecconline.cc wrote:

>On Saturday, December 28, 2013 4:26:50 PM UTC-8, Stumpy wrote:

..
..
..

> The Best way would be to change it at the panel, but if you are looking for a basic band-aid depending on the planned load (Device) that you plan on plugging in, you could get a European voltage adapter to plug your device into, and power it that way with the euro-voltage converter, but that is basically a transformer system in most cases.

---
Hey Tom,

Did you know you're responding to a year-old post?

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 18:49:47 -0600, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 14:34:20 -0800 (PST), tom@ecconline.cc wrote:

On Saturday, December 28, 2013 4:26:50 PM UTC-8, Stumpy wrote:

.
.
.

The Best way would be to change it at the panel, but if you are looking for a basic band-aid depending on the planned load (Device) that you plan on plugging in, you could get a European voltage adapter to plug your device into, and power it that way with the euro-voltage converter, but that is basically a transformer system in most cases.

---
Hey Tom,

Did you know you're responding to a year-old post?

Sat, 28 Dec 2013 is a "year-old post"?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Maynard A. Philbrook Jr.]

In article <8bb5g997nj4c61270goh4kumff0jsfg528@4ax.com>,
jfields@austininstruments.com says...

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 14:34:20 -0800 (PST), tom@ecconline.cc wrote:

On Saturday, December 28, 2013 4:26:50 PM UTC-8, Stumpy wrote:

.
.
.

The Best way would be to change it at the panel, but if you are looking for a basic band-aid depending on the planned load (Device) that you plan on plugging in, you could get a European voltage adapter to plug your device into, and power it that way with the euro-voltage converter, but that is basically a transformer system in most cases.

---
Hey Tom,

Did you know you're responding to a year-old post?

Alzheimer's must be setting in..


Jamie