Spice simulation "off"

R

Robert Baer

Guest
V(TP) should be about -5.5V to represent the 55uA current in DVR1.
What is the fix?


Version 4
SHEET 1 2748 1048
WIRE 176 64 80 64
WIRE 336 64 176 64
WIRE 464 64 416 64
WIRE 608 64 464 64
WIRE 864 64 608 64
WIRE 608 96 608 64
WIRE -96 128 -192 128
WIRE 80 128 -96 128
WIRE 464 128 464 64
WIRE -96 192 -128 192
WIRE 176 192 176 128
WIRE 176 192 -96 192
WIRE -128 208 -128 192
WIRE -128 208 -192 208
WIRE 80 224 80 128
WIRE 176 224 176 192
WIRE 464 256 464 192
WIRE 864 256 864 224
WIRE 1056 256 864 256
WIRE 176 288 80 288
WIRE 864 304 864 256
WIRE 176 368 176 288
WIRE 1056 368 1056 256
WIRE 1120 368 1056 368
WIRE 1248 368 1200 368
WIRE 1456 368 1248 368
WIRE 1056 400 1056 368
WIRE 1248 400 1248 368
WIRE 1248 480 1248 464
WIRE 1456 480 1248 480
WIRE 592 496 448 496
WIRE 864 496 864 432
WIRE 864 496 592 496
WIRE 1056 496 864 496
WIRE 1248 496 1248 480
WIRE 864 512 864 496
WIRE 656 544 656 528
WIRE 1056 560 1056 496
WIRE 448 576 448 496
WIRE 864 608 864 592
WIRE 656 656 656 624
WIRE 592 672 592 496
WIRE 624 672 592 672
WIRE 864 688 864 672
WIRE 864 688 688 688
WIRE 1056 688 1056 624
WIRE 1056 688 864 688
WIRE 1136 688 1056 688
WIRE 624 704 592 704
WIRE 448 720 448 640
WIRE 656 752 656 720
WIRE 864 800 864 752
WIRE 656 848 656 832
WIRE 592 880 592 704
WIRE 864 880 592 880
WIRE 592 896 592 880
WIRE 864 896 864 880
WIRE 592 1008 592 960
WIRE 864 1008 864 976
FLAG 176 368 0
FLAG -96 128 P1
IOPIN -96 128 In
FLAG -96 192 P2
IOPIN -96 192 In
FLAG 464 256 0
FLAG 608 416 0
FLAG 864 1008 0
FLAG 1056 464 0
FLAG 1248 496 0
FLAG 592 1008 0
FLAG 448 720 0
FLAG 656 528 0
FLAG 656 848 0
FLAG 1136 688 TP
IOPIN 1136 688 Out
FLAG 1456 368 J1
IOPIN 1456 368 Out
FLAG 1456 480 FORK
IOPIN 1456 480 Out
SYMBOL diode 96 128 R180
WINDOW 0 -23 0 Left 2
WINDOW 3 45 27 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL diode 192 128 R180
WINDOW 0 -20 1 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -64 -30 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D2
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL diode 96 288 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 46 29 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D3
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL diode 192 288 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -71 65 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D4
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL res 432 48 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 98.7K
SYMBOL cap 448 128 R0
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 52nF
SYMATTR SpiceLine V=1500V
SYMBOL res 592 80 R0
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 5.21Meg
SYMBOL res 592 160 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 5.21Meg
SYMBOL res 592 240 R0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 5.21Meg
SYMBOL res 592 320 R0
SYMATTR InstName R5
SYMATTR Value 5.21Meg
SYMBOL res 848 48 R0
SYMATTR InstName R6
SYMATTR Value 5.37Meg
SYMBOL res 848 128 R0
SYMATTR InstName R7
SYMATTR Value 5.37Meg
SYMBOL zener 880 368 R180
WINDOW 0 -61 38 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -108 7 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName DVR1
SYMATTR Value GV3S800
SYMBOL cap 1040 400 R0
WINDOW 3 23 51 Left 2
SYMATTR Value 10.8nF
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR SpiceLine V=1000V
SYMBOL cap 1232 400 R0
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 51nF
SYMATTR SpiceLine V=1600V
SYMBOL res 1216 352 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R8
SYMATTR Value 127.6Meg
SYMBOL res 880 608 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R9
SYMATTR Value 21.0K
SYMBOL res 880 896 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R10
SYMATTR Value 21.04K
SYMBOL res 880 992 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R11
SYMATTR Value 73.5K
SYMBOL Opamps\\opamp2 656 624 R0
WINDOW 0 21 43 Left 2
WINDOW 3 30 81 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName U1
SYMATTR Value UA741
SYMBOL cap 1040 560 R0
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 100p
SYMBOL cap 576 896 R0
SYMATTR InstName C5
SYMATTR Value 1000p
SYMBOL zener 432 576 R0
SYMATTR InstName D5
SYMATTR Value UMZ15K
SYMBOL voltage 656 848 R180
WINDOW 0 20 15 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -51 54 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V3
SYMATTR Value 15V
SYMBOL voltage 656 640 R180
WINDOW 0 24 96 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -51 56 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V2
SYMATTR Value 15V
SYMBOL voltage -192 112 R0
WINDOW 0 38 54 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -133 -24 Left 2
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 -133 -52 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 1411V
SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=10K Cpar=317nF
SYMBOL diode 848 368 R0
WINDOW 0 49 31 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -80 30 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D6
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL diode 848 608 R0
SYMATTR InstName D7
SYMATTR Value 1N914
SYMBOL diode 848 688 R0
WINDOW 0 39 28 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D8
SYMATTR Value 1N914
TEXT 480 216 Left 2 ;1500V
TEXT 968 408 Left 2 ;1000V\nCER
TEXT 1280 432 Left 2 ;1600V
TEXT 1072 648 Left 2 ;MICA
TEXT 608 984 Left 2 ;MICA
TEXT 464 672 Left 2 ;15V
TEXT 1272 352 Left 2 ;+800 VDC OUT
TEXT 1280 496 Left 2 ;COMMON OUT
TEXT 728 344 Left 2 ;Victoreen\nCorotron
TEXT -208 400 Left 2 !.include sp_ua741.mod
TEXT -216 432 Left 2 !.MODEL GV3S800 D(IS=800.0E-18 Rs=10K Bv=800
Ibv=20e-18)
TEXT -96 -72 Left 2 !.MODEL VR40X D(Rs=1.4 Vj=6.5V Bv=5000 Ibv=100uA)
TEXT 104 48 Left 2 ;n001
TEXT 592 32 Left 2 ;n002
TEXT -96 -40 Left 2 ;VB40X 9mmX2mm Mfg not found; use VMI X50SG as ref
TEXT -352 232 Left 2 ;HIVOLT POWER SUPPLY\nModel PSL2-5M\n2KV @
5MA\nCONDENSER PRODUCTS CO
TEXT 696 288 Left 2 ;note: combo DVR1,D6 fair emulation
TEXT 704 8 Left 2 ;//NOTE: measured values shown for parts
TEXT -136 608 Left 2 ;//NOTE: measured values shown for parts
TEXT 1072 472 Left 2 ;meas at 0V
TEXT 440 952 Left 2 ;0.03nF+/-0.02
TEXT 1104 592 Left 2 ;Not meas
TEXT 736 440 Left 2 ;I(DVR1,D6)
TEXT -352 1032 Left 2 !.op
TEXT -320 128 Left 2 !.op
TEXT 976 760 Left 2 ;Note: I(Dvr1) -5.53e-005 (typical) so is correct,
\n V(tp) of 13.00V incorrect; s/b appx -5.54V
 
On 24/06/2019 07:40, Robert Baer wrote:
V(TP) should be about -5.5V to represent the 55uA current in DVR1.
What is the fix?


Version 4
SHEET 1 2748 1048
WIRE 176 64 80 64
WIRE 336 64 176 64
WIRE 464 64 416 64
WIRE 608 64 464 64
WIRE 864 64 608 64
WIRE 608 96 608 64
WIRE -96 128 -192 128
WIRE 80 128 -96 128
WIRE 464 128 464 64
WIRE -96 192 -128 192
WIRE 176 192 176 128
WIRE 176 192 -96 192
WIRE -128 208 -128 192
WIRE -128 208 -192 208
WIRE 80 224 80 128
WIRE 176 224 176 192
WIRE 464 256 464 192
WIRE 864 256 864 224
WIRE 1056 256 864 256
WIRE 176 288 80 288
WIRE 864 304 864 256
WIRE 176 368 176 288
WIRE 1056 368 1056 256
WIRE 1120 368 1056 368
WIRE 1248 368 1200 368
WIRE 1456 368 1248 368
WIRE 1056 400 1056 368
WIRE 1248 400 1248 368
WIRE 1248 480 1248 464
WIRE 1456 480 1248 480
WIRE 592 496 448 496
WIRE 864 496 864 432
WIRE 864 496 592 496
WIRE 1056 496 864 496
WIRE 1248 496 1248 480
WIRE 864 512 864 496
WIRE 656 544 656 528
WIRE 1056 560 1056 496
WIRE 448 576 448 496
WIRE 864 608 864 592
WIRE 656 656 656 624
WIRE 592 672 592 496
WIRE 624 672 592 672
WIRE 864 688 864 672
WIRE 864 688 688 688
WIRE 1056 688 1056 624
WIRE 1056 688 864 688
WIRE 1136 688 1056 688
WIRE 624 704 592 704
WIRE 448 720 448 640
WIRE 656 752 656 720
WIRE 864 800 864 752
WIRE 656 848 656 832
WIRE 592 880 592 704
WIRE 864 880 592 880
WIRE 592 896 592 880
WIRE 864 896 864 880
WIRE 592 1008 592 960
WIRE 864 1008 864 976
FLAG 176 368 0
FLAG -96 128 P1
IOPIN -96 128 In
FLAG -96 192 P2
IOPIN -96 192 In
FLAG 464 256 0
FLAG 608 416 0
FLAG 864 1008 0
FLAG 1056 464 0
FLAG 1248 496 0
FLAG 592 1008 0
FLAG 448 720 0
FLAG 656 528 0
FLAG 656 848 0
FLAG 1136 688 TP
IOPIN 1136 688 Out
FLAG 1456 368 J1
IOPIN 1456 368 Out
FLAG 1456 480 FORK
IOPIN 1456 480 Out
SYMBOL diode 96 128 R180
WINDOW 0 -23 0 Left 2
WINDOW 3 45 27 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL diode 192 128 R180
WINDOW 0 -20 1 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -64 -30 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D2
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL diode 96 288 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 46 29 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D3
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL diode 192 288 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -71 65 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D4
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL res 432 48 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 98.7K
SYMBOL cap 448 128 R0
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 52nF
SYMATTR SpiceLine V=1500V
SYMBOL res 592 80 R0
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 5.21Meg
SYMBOL res 592 160 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 5.21Meg
SYMBOL res 592 240 R0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 5.21Meg
SYMBOL res 592 320 R0
SYMATTR InstName R5
SYMATTR Value 5.21Meg
SYMBOL res 848 48 R0
SYMATTR InstName R6
SYMATTR Value 5.37Meg
SYMBOL res 848 128 R0
SYMATTR InstName R7
SYMATTR Value 5.37Meg
SYMBOL zener 880 368 R180
WINDOW 0 -61 38 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -108 7 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName DVR1
SYMATTR Value GV3S800
SYMBOL cap 1040 400 R0
WINDOW 3 23 51 Left 2
SYMATTR Value 10.8nF
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR SpiceLine V=1000V
SYMBOL cap 1232 400 R0
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 51nF
SYMATTR SpiceLine V=1600V
SYMBOL res 1216 352 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R8
SYMATTR Value 127.6Meg
SYMBOL res 880 608 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R9
SYMATTR Value 21.0K
SYMBOL res 880 896 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R10
SYMATTR Value 21.04K
SYMBOL res 880 992 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R11
SYMATTR Value 73.5K
SYMBOL Opamps\\opamp2 656 624 R0
WINDOW 0 21 43 Left 2
WINDOW 3 30 81 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName U1
SYMATTR Value UA741
SYMBOL cap 1040 560 R0
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 100p
SYMBOL cap 576 896 R0
SYMATTR InstName C5
SYMATTR Value 1000p
SYMBOL zener 432 576 R0
SYMATTR InstName D5
SYMATTR Value UMZ15K
SYMBOL voltage 656 848 R180
WINDOW 0 20 15 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -51 54 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V3
SYMATTR Value 15V
SYMBOL voltage 656 640 R180
WINDOW 0 24 96 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -51 56 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V2
SYMATTR Value 15V
SYMBOL voltage -192 112 R0
WINDOW 0 38 54 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -133 -24 Left 2
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 -133 -52 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 1411V
SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=10K Cpar=317nF
SYMBOL diode 848 368 R0
WINDOW 0 49 31 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -80 30 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D6
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL diode 848 608 R0
SYMATTR InstName D7
SYMATTR Value 1N914
SYMBOL diode 848 688 R0
WINDOW 0 39 28 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D8
SYMATTR Value 1N914
TEXT 480 216 Left 2 ;1500V
TEXT 968 408 Left 2 ;1000V\nCER
TEXT 1280 432 Left 2 ;1600V
TEXT 1072 648 Left 2 ;MICA
TEXT 608 984 Left 2 ;MICA
TEXT 464 672 Left 2 ;15V
TEXT 1272 352 Left 2 ;+800 VDC OUT
TEXT 1280 496 Left 2 ;COMMON OUT
TEXT 728 344 Left 2 ;Victoreen\nCorotron
TEXT -208 400 Left 2 !.include sp_ua741.mod
TEXT -216 432 Left 2 !.MODEL GV3S800 D(IS=800.0E-18 Rs=10K Bv=800
Ibv=20e-18)
TEXT -96 -72 Left 2 !.MODEL VR40X D(Rs=1.4 Vj=6.5V Bv=5000 Ibv=100uA)
TEXT 104 48 Left 2 ;n001
TEXT 592 32 Left 2 ;n002
TEXT -96 -40 Left 2 ;VB40X 9mmX2mm Mfg not found; use VMI X50SG as ref
TEXT -352 232 Left 2 ;HIVOLT POWER SUPPLY\nModel PSL2-5M\n2KV @
5MA\nCONDENSER PRODUCTS CO
TEXT 696 288 Left 2 ;note: combo DVR1,D6 fair emulation
TEXT 704 8 Left 2 ;//NOTE: measured values shown for parts
TEXT -136 608 Left 2 ;//NOTE: measured values shown for parts
TEXT 1072 472 Left 2 ;meas at 0V
TEXT 440 952 Left 2 ;0.03nF+/-0.02
TEXT 1104 592 Left 2 ;Not meas
TEXT 736 440 Left 2 ;I(DVR1,D6)
TEXT -352 1032 Left 2 !.op
TEXT -320 128 Left 2 !.op
TEXT 976 760 Left 2 ;Note: I(Dvr1) -5.53e-005 (typical) so is correct,
\n V(tp) of 13.00V incorrect; s/b appx -5.54V
Click to expand...

Current in D5 is 55uA and in R9 is 2nA so looks like the feedback round
the op-amp is too blame?

How would you make R9 (21k) * 55uA come to 5.5V?

piglet
 
On 24/06/2019 10:16 am, Piglet wrote:
On 24/06/2019 07:40, Robert Baer wrote:
  V(TP) should be about -5.5V to represent the 55uA current in DVR1.
  What is the fix?


Version 4
SHEET 1 2748 1048
WIRE 176 64 80 64
WIRE 336 64 176 64
WIRE 464 64 416 64
WIRE 608 64 464 64
WIRE 864 64 608 64
WIRE 608 96 608 64
WIRE -96 128 -192 128
WIRE 80 128 -96 128
WIRE 464 128 464 64
WIRE -96 192 -128 192
WIRE 176 192 176 128
WIRE 176 192 -96 192
WIRE -128 208 -128 192
WIRE -128 208 -192 208
WIRE 80 224 80 128
WIRE 176 224 176 192
WIRE 464 256 464 192
WIRE 864 256 864 224
WIRE 1056 256 864 256
WIRE 176 288 80 288
WIRE 864 304 864 256
WIRE 176 368 176 288
WIRE 1056 368 1056 256
WIRE 1120 368 1056 368
WIRE 1248 368 1200 368
WIRE 1456 368 1248 368
WIRE 1056 400 1056 368
WIRE 1248 400 1248 368
WIRE 1248 480 1248 464
WIRE 1456 480 1248 480
WIRE 592 496 448 496
WIRE 864 496 864 432
WIRE 864 496 592 496
WIRE 1056 496 864 496
WIRE 1248 496 1248 480
WIRE 864 512 864 496
WIRE 656 544 656 528
WIRE 1056 560 1056 496
WIRE 448 576 448 496
WIRE 864 608 864 592
WIRE 656 656 656 624
WIRE 592 672 592 496
WIRE 624 672 592 672
WIRE 864 688 864 672
WIRE 864 688 688 688
WIRE 1056 688 1056 624
WIRE 1056 688 864 688
WIRE 1136 688 1056 688
WIRE 624 704 592 704
WIRE 448 720 448 640
WIRE 656 752 656 720
WIRE 864 800 864 752
WIRE 656 848 656 832
WIRE 592 880 592 704
WIRE 864 880 592 880
WIRE 592 896 592 880
WIRE 864 896 864 880
WIRE 592 1008 592 960
WIRE 864 1008 864 976
FLAG 176 368 0
FLAG -96 128 P1
IOPIN -96 128 In
FLAG -96 192 P2
IOPIN -96 192 In
FLAG 464 256 0
FLAG 608 416 0
FLAG 864 1008 0
FLAG 1056 464 0
FLAG 1248 496 0
FLAG 592 1008 0
FLAG 448 720 0
FLAG 656 528 0
FLAG 656 848 0
FLAG 1136 688 TP
IOPIN 1136 688 Out
FLAG 1456 368 J1
IOPIN 1456 368 Out
FLAG 1456 480 FORK
IOPIN 1456 480 Out
SYMBOL diode 96 128 R180
WINDOW 0 -23 0 Left 2
WINDOW 3 45 27 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL diode 192 128 R180
WINDOW 0 -20 1 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -64 -30 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D2
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL diode 96 288 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 46 29 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D3
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL diode 192 288 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -71 65 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D4
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL res 432 48 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 98.7K
SYMBOL cap 448 128 R0
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 52nF
SYMATTR SpiceLine V=1500V
SYMBOL res 592 80 R0
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 5.21Meg
SYMBOL res 592 160 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 5.21Meg
SYMBOL res 592 240 R0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 5.21Meg
SYMBOL res 592 320 R0
SYMATTR InstName R5
SYMATTR Value 5.21Meg
SYMBOL res 848 48 R0
SYMATTR InstName R6
SYMATTR Value 5.37Meg
SYMBOL res 848 128 R0
SYMATTR InstName R7
SYMATTR Value 5.37Meg
SYMBOL zener 880 368 R180
WINDOW 0 -61 38 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -108 7 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName DVR1
SYMATTR Value GV3S800
SYMBOL cap 1040 400 R0
WINDOW 3 23 51 Left 2
SYMATTR Value 10.8nF
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR SpiceLine V=1000V
SYMBOL cap 1232 400 R0
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 51nF
SYMATTR SpiceLine V=1600V
SYMBOL res 1216 352 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R8
SYMATTR Value 127.6Meg
SYMBOL res 880 608 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R9
SYMATTR Value 21.0K
SYMBOL res 880 896 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R10
SYMATTR Value 21.04K
SYMBOL res 880 992 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R11
SYMATTR Value 73.5K
SYMBOL Opamps\\opamp2 656 624 R0
WINDOW 0 21 43 Left 2
WINDOW 3 30 81 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName U1
SYMATTR Value UA741
SYMBOL cap 1040 560 R0
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 100p
SYMBOL cap 576 896 R0
SYMATTR InstName C5
SYMATTR Value 1000p
SYMBOL zener 432 576 R0
SYMATTR InstName D5
SYMATTR Value UMZ15K
SYMBOL voltage 656 848 R180
WINDOW 0 20 15 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -51 54 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V3
SYMATTR Value 15V
SYMBOL voltage 656 640 R180
WINDOW 0 24 96 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -51 56 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V2
SYMATTR Value 15V
SYMBOL voltage -192 112 R0
WINDOW 0 38 54 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -133 -24 Left 2
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 -133 -52 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 1411V
SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=10K Cpar=317nF
SYMBOL diode 848 368 R0
WINDOW 0 49 31 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -80 30 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D6
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL diode 848 608 R0
SYMATTR InstName D7
SYMATTR Value 1N914
SYMBOL diode 848 688 R0
WINDOW 0 39 28 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D8
SYMATTR Value 1N914
TEXT 480 216 Left 2 ;1500V
TEXT 968 408 Left 2 ;1000V\nCER
TEXT 1280 432 Left 2 ;1600V
TEXT 1072 648 Left 2 ;MICA
TEXT 608 984 Left 2 ;MICA
TEXT 464 672 Left 2 ;15V
TEXT 1272 352 Left 2 ;+800 VDC OUT
TEXT 1280 496 Left 2 ;COMMON OUT
TEXT 728 344 Left 2 ;Victoreen\nCorotron
TEXT -208 400 Left 2 !.include sp_ua741.mod
TEXT -216 432 Left 2 !.MODEL GV3S800 D(IS=800.0E-18 Rs=10K Bv=800
Ibv=20e-18)
TEXT -96 -72 Left 2 !.MODEL VR40X D(Rs=1.4 Vj=6.5V Bv=5000 Ibv=100uA)
TEXT 104 48 Left 2 ;n001
TEXT 592 32 Left 2 ;n002
TEXT -96 -40 Left 2 ;VB40X 9mmX2mm Mfg not found; use VMI X50SG as ref
TEXT -352 232 Left 2 ;HIVOLT POWER SUPPLY\nModel PSL2-5M\n2KV @
5MA\nCONDENSER PRODUCTS CO
TEXT 696 288 Left 2 ;note: combo DVR1,D6 fair emulation
TEXT 704 8 Left 2 ;//NOTE: measured values shown for parts
TEXT -136 608 Left 2 ;//NOTE: measured values shown for parts
TEXT 1072 472 Left 2 ;meas at 0V
TEXT 440 952 Left 2 ;0.03nF+/-0.02
TEXT 1104 592 Left 2 ;Not meas
TEXT 736 440 Left 2 ;I(DVR1,D6)
TEXT -352 1032 Left 2 !.op
TEXT -320 128 Left 2 !.op
TEXT 976 760 Left 2 ;Note: I(Dvr1)  -5.53e-005 (typical) so is correct,
\n   V(tp)  of  13.00V incorrect; s/b appx -5.54V


Current in D5 is 55uA and in R9 is 2nA so looks like the feedback round
the op-amp is too blame?

How would you make R9 (21k) * 55uA come to 5.5V?

piglet
Click to expand...

If run transient analysis then Vtp is what would be expected after few
hundreds us. So I guess DC operate point simulate is like a time zero run?

What are D7, D8, R10 for?

piglet
 
Piglet wrote:
On 24/06/2019 07:40, Robert Baer wrote:
  V(TP) should be about -5.5V to represent the 55uA current in DVR1.
  What is the fix?


Version 4
SHEET 1 2748 1048
WIRE 176 64 80 64
WIRE 336 64 176 64
WIRE 464 64 416 64
WIRE 608 64 464 64
WIRE 864 64 608 64
WIRE 608 96 608 64
WIRE -96 128 -192 128
WIRE 80 128 -96 128
WIRE 464 128 464 64
WIRE -96 192 -128 192
WIRE 176 192 176 128
WIRE 176 192 -96 192
WIRE -128 208 -128 192
WIRE -128 208 -192 208
WIRE 80 224 80 128
WIRE 176 224 176 192
WIRE 464 256 464 192
WIRE 864 256 864 224
WIRE 1056 256 864 256
WIRE 176 288 80 288
WIRE 864 304 864 256
WIRE 176 368 176 288
WIRE 1056 368 1056 256
WIRE 1120 368 1056 368
WIRE 1248 368 1200 368
WIRE 1456 368 1248 368
WIRE 1056 400 1056 368
WIRE 1248 400 1248 368
WIRE 1248 480 1248 464
WIRE 1456 480 1248 480
WIRE 592 496 448 496
WIRE 864 496 864 432
WIRE 864 496 592 496
WIRE 1056 496 864 496
WIRE 1248 496 1248 480
WIRE 864 512 864 496
WIRE 656 544 656 528
WIRE 1056 560 1056 496
WIRE 448 576 448 496
WIRE 864 608 864 592
WIRE 656 656 656 624
WIRE 592 672 592 496
WIRE 624 672 592 672
WIRE 864 688 864 672
WIRE 864 688 688 688
WIRE 1056 688 1056 624
WIRE 1056 688 864 688
WIRE 1136 688 1056 688
WIRE 624 704 592 704
WIRE 448 720 448 640
WIRE 656 752 656 720
WIRE 864 800 864 752
WIRE 656 848 656 832
WIRE 592 880 592 704
WIRE 864 880 592 880
WIRE 592 896 592 880
WIRE 864 896 864 880
WIRE 592 1008 592 960
WIRE 864 1008 864 976
FLAG 176 368 0
FLAG -96 128 P1
IOPIN -96 128 In
FLAG -96 192 P2
IOPIN -96 192 In
FLAG 464 256 0
FLAG 608 416 0
FLAG 864 1008 0
FLAG 1056 464 0
FLAG 1248 496 0
FLAG 592 1008 0
FLAG 448 720 0
FLAG 656 528 0
FLAG 656 848 0
FLAG 1136 688 TP
IOPIN 1136 688 Out
FLAG 1456 368 J1
IOPIN 1456 368 Out
FLAG 1456 480 FORK
IOPIN 1456 480 Out
SYMBOL diode 96 128 R180
WINDOW 0 -23 0 Left 2
WINDOW 3 45 27 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL diode 192 128 R180
WINDOW 0 -20 1 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -64 -30 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D2
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL diode 96 288 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 46 29 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D3
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL diode 192 288 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -71 65 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D4
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL res 432 48 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 98.7K
SYMBOL cap 448 128 R0
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 52nF
SYMATTR SpiceLine V=1500V
SYMBOL res 592 80 R0
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 5.21Meg
SYMBOL res 592 160 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 5.21Meg
SYMBOL res 592 240 R0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 5.21Meg
SYMBOL res 592 320 R0
SYMATTR InstName R5
SYMATTR Value 5.21Meg
SYMBOL res 848 48 R0
SYMATTR InstName R6
SYMATTR Value 5.37Meg
SYMBOL res 848 128 R0
SYMATTR InstName R7
SYMATTR Value 5.37Meg
SYMBOL zener 880 368 R180
WINDOW 0 -61 38 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -108 7 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName DVR1
SYMATTR Value GV3S800
SYMBOL cap 1040 400 R0
WINDOW 3 23 51 Left 2
SYMATTR Value 10.8nF
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR SpiceLine V=1000V
SYMBOL cap 1232 400 R0
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 51nF
SYMATTR SpiceLine V=1600V
SYMBOL res 1216 352 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R8
SYMATTR Value 127.6Meg
SYMBOL res 880 608 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R9
SYMATTR Value 21.0K
SYMBOL res 880 896 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R10
SYMATTR Value 21.04K
SYMBOL res 880 992 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R11
SYMATTR Value 73.5K
SYMBOL Opamps\\opamp2 656 624 R0
WINDOW 0 21 43 Left 2
WINDOW 3 30 81 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName U1
SYMATTR Value UA741
SYMBOL cap 1040 560 R0
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 100p
SYMBOL cap 576 896 R0
SYMATTR InstName C5
SYMATTR Value 1000p
SYMBOL zener 432 576 R0
SYMATTR InstName D5
SYMATTR Value UMZ15K
SYMBOL voltage 656 848 R180
WINDOW 0 20 15 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -51 54 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V3
SYMATTR Value 15V
SYMBOL voltage 656 640 R180
WINDOW 0 24 96 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -51 56 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V2
SYMATTR Value 15V
SYMBOL voltage -192 112 R0
WINDOW 0 38 54 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -133 -24 Left 2
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 -133 -52 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 1411V
SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=10K Cpar=317nF
SYMBOL diode 848 368 R0
WINDOW 0 49 31 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -80 30 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D6
SYMATTR Value VR40X
SYMBOL diode 848 608 R0
SYMATTR InstName D7
SYMATTR Value 1N914
SYMBOL diode 848 688 R0
WINDOW 0 39 28 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D8
SYMATTR Value 1N914
TEXT 480 216 Left 2 ;1500V
TEXT 968 408 Left 2 ;1000V\nCER
TEXT 1280 432 Left 2 ;1600V
TEXT 1072 648 Left 2 ;MICA
TEXT 608 984 Left 2 ;MICA
TEXT 464 672 Left 2 ;15V
TEXT 1272 352 Left 2 ;+800 VDC OUT
TEXT 1280 496 Left 2 ;COMMON OUT
TEXT 728 344 Left 2 ;Victoreen\nCorotron
TEXT -208 400 Left 2 !.include sp_ua741.mod
TEXT -216 432 Left 2 !.MODEL GV3S800 D(IS=800.0E-18 Rs=10K Bv=800
Ibv=20e-18)
TEXT -96 -72 Left 2 !.MODEL VR40X D(Rs=1.4 Vj=6.5V Bv=5000 Ibv=100uA)
TEXT 104 48 Left 2 ;n001
TEXT 592 32 Left 2 ;n002
TEXT -96 -40 Left 2 ;VB40X 9mmX2mm Mfg not found; use VMI X50SG as ref
TEXT -352 232 Left 2 ;HIVOLT POWER SUPPLY\nModel PSL2-5M\n2KV @
5MA\nCONDENSER PRODUCTS CO
TEXT 696 288 Left 2 ;note: combo DVR1,D6 fair emulation
TEXT 704 8 Left 2 ;//NOTE: measured values shown for parts
TEXT -136 608 Left 2 ;//NOTE: measured values shown for parts
TEXT 1072 472 Left 2 ;meas at 0V
TEXT 440 952 Left 2 ;0.03nF+/-0.02
TEXT 1104 592 Left 2 ;Not meas
TEXT 736 440 Left 2 ;I(DVR1,D6)
TEXT -352 1032 Left 2 !.op
TEXT -320 128 Left 2 !.op
TEXT 976 760 Left 2 ;Note: I(Dvr1)  -5.53e-005 (typical) so is correct,
\n   V(tp)  of  13.00V incorrect; s/b appx -5.54V


Current in D5 is 55uA and in R9 is 2nA so looks like the feedback round
the op-amp is too blame?
Click to expand...
* BINGO! Op amp is obviously railed and doing nothing useful.
This is in reality (the physical unit) and in SPICE.

How would you make R9 (21k) * 55uA come to 5.5V?
Click to expand...
* I do not.
Somehow,the circuit works and one sees -5.5V at TP; that voltage is a
very reasonable representation of I(DVR1).
I cannot look at a physical working beasty as (at least one) is at
Brookhaven National Labs, slightly removed from the West coast.

piglet
Click to expand...
I am trying to figure out what makes it work and getting nowhere.
The board conforms to the circuit.
I even measured all parts in-place and documented them.
Tried 3 different 741s.

When i first got it, it oscillated at 836Hz, looked looked like a
class-C oscillator running.
Waveform negative clamped to about -13.5V for about 200uSec, positive
excursion about -1V.
Strange (?) part is the AVERAGE voltage at TP was -5.5V.

I tried changing R9, D7, D8 and BAM!
Failed to either work "properly" (ie: as advertised working) or to
oscillate.
I see it now in (what i call) the latched state, shown/simulated here.

ANY ideas,no matter how crazy would be welcome.

Thanks.
 
piglet wrote:
On 24/06/2019 10:16 am, Piglet wrote:
On 24/06/2019 07:40, Robert Baer wrote:
  V(TP) should be about -5.5V to represent the 55uA current in DVR1.
  What is the fix?

snipped
Click to expand...


If run transient analysis then Vtp is what would be expected after few
hundreds us. So I guess DC operate point simulate is like a time zero run?
Click to expand...
* Maybe,i do not know SPICE protocol.
Was guessing .op would give steady-state/ final / stable(?) conditions.
Hoping SPICE results might be useful for "how to fix".

What are D7, D8, R10 for?
Click to expand...
*Unknown. Circuit from FermiLab in early 1970s.
Two known working boards.

piglet
Click to expand...
 
Robert Baer wrote:
piglet wrote:
On 24/06/2019 10:16 am, Piglet wrote:
On 24/06/2019 07:40, Robert Baer wrote:
  V(TP) should be about -5.5V to represent the 55uA current in DVR1.
  What is the fix?

    <snipped



If run transient analysis then Vtp is what would be expected after few
hundreds us. So I guess DC operate point simulate is like a time zero
run?
* Maybe,i do not know SPICE protocol.
  Was guessing .op would give steady-state/ final / stable(?) conditions.
  Hoping SPICE results might be useful for "how to fix".


What are D7, D8, R10 for?
*Unknown. Circuit from FermiLab in early 1970s.
  Two known working boards.


piglet
Click to expand...
I was fiddling around and discovered (on my computer) that if i
clicked on the body if DVR1, i get a pull-down menu with a long list of
diode models.

I vaguely remember that i found that list as an ASCII file
"somewhere" and added a .model for GV3S800, and see it is conflicting
with the .model in the simulation file.

I think it would provide sanity if i deleted that file.
I cannot find that file, nor the original diode pull-down menu
anywhere (original should still exist).

Help?
 
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