Spice Model for PMT

J

Jim Thompson

Guest
Anyone have a Spice model for a photo-multiplier TUBE ??

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave
 
Jim Thompson wrote:
Anyone have a Spice model for a photo-multiplier TUBE ??

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...
Do you need all 14 pins modelled, or just the photon->anode current
response?

Even if it's just the anode current, PMTs vary greatly in transit time,
transit time spread, afterpulses, and so on--you can get pulse widths of
500 ps to 50 ns from one primary photoelectron.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs
 
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:58:26 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

Anyone have a Spice model for a photo-multiplier TUBE ??

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...
www-boone.fnal.gov/publicpages/detector_tdr.ps.gz

Page 82 has some simple models.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:10:53 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
Anyone have a Spice model for a photo-multiplier TUBE ??

...Jim Thompson

Do you need all 14 pins modelled, or just the photon->anode current
response?
Click to expand...
Just photon->anode current

Even if it's just the anode current, PMTs vary greatly in transit time,
transit time spread, afterpulses, and so on--you can get pulse widths of
500 ps to 50 ns from one primary photoelectron.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs
Click to expand...
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Liberalism is a persistent vegetative state
 
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:13:44 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:58:26 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:


Anyone have a Spice model for a photo-multiplier TUBE ??

...Jim Thompson

www-boone.fnal.gov/publicpages/detector_tdr.ps.gz

Page 82 has some simple models.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
Click to expand...
Thanks!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Liberalism is a persistent vegetative state
 
Jim Thompson wrote:

Just photon->anode current
Click to expand...
Not a spice model, but perhaps, some data that will help you
build one. A few years ago, I came up with a functional fit
between total supply voltage and gain for an Hamamatsu R928
stage side view multiplier:
http://sales.hamamatsu.com/assets/pdf/parts_R/R928.pdf

The function I pulled out of my but and fit to the data
sheet curve is:

gain(a,b,v,N)=(a*(v/(N+1))^b)^N
Where N=9 successive internal gain stages,
a=0.185, b=0.755, and
v = the total voltage applied across the voltage divider
socket type E717-21, shown at the end of the above data sheet.

Add propagation delay and capacitance and I think you are
close, if this is the sort of PMT.

--
Regards,

John Popelish
 
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:51:41 -0400, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

Just photon->anode current

Not a spice model, but perhaps, some data that will help you
build one. A few years ago, I came up with a functional fit
between total supply voltage and gain for an Hamamatsu R928
stage side view multiplier:
http://sales.hamamatsu.com/assets/pdf/parts_R/R928.pdf

The function I pulled out of my but and fit to the data
sheet curve is:

gain(a,b,v,N)=(a*(v/(N+1))^b)^N
Where N=9 successive internal gain stages,
a=0.185, b=0.755, and
v = the total voltage applied across the voltage divider
socket type E717-21, shown at the end of the above data sheet.

Add propagation delay and capacitance and I think you are
close, if this is the sort of PMT.
Click to expand...
Thanks!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Liberalism is a persistent vegetative state
 
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:26:42 -0700 (PDT), bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

On Jul 18, 12:51 pm, John Popelish <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Just photon->anode current

Not a spice model, but perhaps, some data that will help you
build one.  A few years ago, I came up with a functional fit
between total supply voltage and gain for an Hamamatsu R928
stage side view multiplier:http://sales.hamamatsu.com/assets/pdf/parts_R/R928.pdf

The function I pulled out of my but and fit to the data
sheet curve is:

gain(a,b,v,N)=(a*(v/(N+1))^b)^N
Where N=9 successive internal gain stages,
a=0.185, b=0.755, and
v = the total voltage applied across the voltage divider
socket type E717-21, shown at the end of the above data sheet.

Add propagation delay and capacitance and I think you are
close, if this is the sort of PMT.

Don't try and pull too much current out of the tube though. There are
at least eight different sources of photomultiplier non-linearity,
starting with space charge in the photo-cathode to first dynode space.

Space charge between the last two dynodes (which are usually on either
side of the anode) and the anode usually limits the anode current to
less than 100mA (unless you use fairly high voltages across the last
few dynodes).

There was a rather dire Spice simulation of a PMT in IEEE Trans.
Electron Devices vol.36 (9) 2005-2010 (Sept 1989) and my comment on it
was published in 1991."Comment on 'Computer aided simulation study of
photomultiplier tubes'", IEEE Transactions on Electron Devices, ED-38
679-680 (1991).

It lists a bunch of papers on photomultiplier non-linearity. The best
of them - by Sauerbrey - is in Applied Optics, but in German. I've got
a translation somewhere.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Bill!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Liberalism is a persistent vegetative state
 
On Jul 18, 12:51 pm, John Popelish <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Just photon->anode current

Not a spice model, but perhaps, some data that will help you
build one.  A few years ago, I came up with a functional fit
between total supply voltage and gain for an Hamamatsu R928
stage side view multiplier:http://sales.hamamatsu.com/assets/pdf/parts_R/R928.pdf

The function I pulled out of my but and fit to the data
sheet curve is:

gain(a,b,v,N)=(a*(v/(N+1))^b)^N
Where N=9 successive internal gain stages,
a=0.185, b=0.755, and
v = the total voltage applied across the voltage divider
socket type E717-21, shown at the end of the above data sheet.

Add propagation delay and capacitance and I think you are
close, if this is the sort of PMT.
Click to expand...
Don't try and pull too much current out of the tube though. There are
at least eight different sources of photomultiplier non-linearity,
starting with space charge in the photo-cathode to first dynode space.

Space charge between the last two dynodes (which are usually on either
side of the anode) and the anode usually limits the anode current to
less than 100mA (unless you use fairly high voltages across the last
few dynodes).

There was a rather dire Spice simulation of a PMT in IEEE Trans.
Electron Devices vol.36 (9) 2005-2010 (Sept 1989) and my comment on it
was published in 1991."Comment on 'Computer aided simulation study of
photomultiplier tubes'", IEEE Transactions on Electron Devices, ED-38
679-680 (1991).

It lists a bunch of papers on photomultiplier non-linearity. The best
of them - by Sauerbrey - is in Applied Optics, but in German. I've got
a translation somewhere.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
 
On 7ÔÂ18ČŐ, ÉĎÎç8Ęą58ˇÖ, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@My-Web-
Site.com> wrote:
Anyone have a Spice model for a photo-multiplier TUBE ??

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon athttp://www.analog-innovations.com| 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave
Click to expand...
 
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