Specific advice on reapiring a speaker

M

MajBach1

Guest
Hi, all. Before I state my problem, let me say that I did do an extensive
search first and came up with more questions than answers
Anyway, the other day after playing some of the Matrix Soundtrack just wee
bit too loud, one of my Paradigm speakers started sounding uncomfortably
similar to a boat full of fishermen after eating to much pork and beans. I
disassembled it and noticed the cone had separated from the surround about
1/3 the circumference. The surround is made of foam and the break is very
clean. I was surprised to see that there is zero sign of dry-rot especially
considering these speakers are at least a decade old.
I have found various suggestions over a number of NGs for using some sort of
adhesive to repair the speaker. The most common response is something that
'suspiciously resembles Elmer's glue'. However, a few more sophisticated
replies suggested that proper glue IS NOT Elmer's.
I am asking for some specific ideas on how to repair the cone with an
adhesive I can obtain from my local hardware store or Radio Shack.
Yes, I have posted this on a couple of other NGs. Hope the cross-post
doesn't piss anyone off. Just wasn't sure which NG was most appropriate.
Thanks,
MajBach
 
There are speaker surround kits available. Don't experiment with glues and
adhesives, if you want your speakers to sound right.

The best and proper solution would be to get in touch with Paradigm, and
order a new driver. They are very good for their product support.

For parts support:
http://www.paradigm.com/Website/News/news7.html

--

Greetings,

Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
=========================================
WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
=========================================


"MajBach1" <removeallbut_majbach@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:Wv0Sb.57271$Kg6.607045@news20.bellglobal.com...
Hi, all. Before I state my problem, let me say that I did do an extensive
search first and came up with more questions than answers
Anyway, the other day after playing some of the Matrix Soundtrack just wee
bit too loud, one of my Paradigm speakers started sounding uncomfortably
similar to a boat full of fishermen after eating to much pork and beans. I
disassembled it and noticed the cone had separated from the surround about
1/3 the circumference. The surround is made of foam and the break is very
clean. I was surprised to see that there is zero sign of dry-rot especially
considering these speakers are at least a decade old.
I have found various suggestions over a number of NGs for using some sort of
adhesive to repair the speaker. The most common response is something that
'suspiciously resembles Elmer's glue'. However, a few more sophisticated
replies suggested that proper glue IS NOT Elmer's.
I am asking for some specific ideas on how to repair the cone with an
adhesive I can obtain from my local hardware store or Radio Shack.
Yes, I have posted this on a couple of other NGs. Hope the cross-post
doesn't piss anyone off. Just wasn't sure which NG was most appropriate.
Thanks,
MajBach
 
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 00:04:48 -0500, "MajBach1"
<removeallbut_majbach@sympatico.ca> wrote:
There are plent of sites online that sell the foam surround repair
kits and with a little care they work just fine.
Just be sure they have the necessary shims and such to ensure that you
get proper cone alignment when installing the new surround.
If you want to try a repair, low grade silicone can sometimes do the
trick. In fact I use it seal foam surrounds and stiffen the suspension
a bit on woofers I use.
Be sure to get the clear stuff, usually aquarium sealant or the food
grade stuff.
Stay away from the type used for windshield repair, while it's
flowable and easy to use, it hardens to rock like consistency.
Just coat the foam surround with a thin coat using an artist's brush
or small nylon bristle craft brush.
Even using the most flexible grade will tend to stiffen the suspension
a bit, however I find this a desirable trait as it tightens the bass
up a bit.

Hi, all. Before I state my problem, let me say that I did do an extensive
search first and came up with more questions than answers
Anyway, the other day after playing some of the Matrix Soundtrack just wee
bit too loud, one of my Paradigm speakers started sounding uncomfortably
similar to a boat full of fishermen after eating to much pork and beans. I
disassembled it and noticed the cone had separated from the surround about
1/3 the circumference. The surround is made of foam and the break is very
clean. I was surprised to see that there is zero sign of dry-rot especially
considering these speakers are at least a decade old.
I have found various suggestions over a number of NGs for using some sort of
adhesive to repair the speaker. The most common response is something that
'suspiciously resembles Elmer's glue'. However, a few more sophisticated
replies suggested that proper glue IS NOT Elmer's.
I am asking for some specific ideas on how to repair the cone with an
adhesive I can obtain from my local hardware store or Radio Shack.
Yes, I have posted this on a couple of other NGs. Hope the cross-post
doesn't piss anyone off. Just wasn't sure which NG was most appropriate.
Thanks,
MajBach
Click to expand...
 
This approach will work but is certain to result in one speaker
sounding different from another. As for the effect you get if you
"stiffen the suspension," that is not predictable.

Get a replacement from Paradigm.

Kal

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 01:06:00 -0600, gothika <gothika@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 00:04:48 -0500, "MajBach1"
removeallbut_majbach@sympatico.ca> wrote:
There are plent of sites online that sell the foam surround repair
kits and with a little care they work just fine.
Just be sure they have the necessary shims and such to ensure that you
get proper cone alignment when installing the new surround.
If you want to try a repair, low grade silicone can sometimes do the
trick. In fact I use it seal foam surrounds and stiffen the suspension
a bit on woofers I use.
Be sure to get the clear stuff, usually aquarium sealant or the food
grade stuff.
Stay away from the type used for windshield repair, while it's
flowable and easy to use, it hardens to rock like consistency.
Just coat the foam surround with a thin coat using an artist's brush
or small nylon bristle craft brush.
Even using the most flexible grade will tend to stiffen the suspension
a bit, however I find this a desirable trait as it tightens the bass
up a bit.

Hi, all. Before I state my problem, let me say that I did do an extensive
search first and came up with more questions than answers
Anyway, the other day after playing some of the Matrix Soundtrack just wee
bit too loud, one of my Paradigm speakers started sounding uncomfortably
similar to a boat full of fishermen after eating to much pork and beans. I
disassembled it and noticed the cone had separated from the surround about
1/3 the circumference. The surround is made of foam and the break is very
clean. I was surprised to see that there is zero sign of dry-rot especially
considering these speakers are at least a decade old.
I have found various suggestions over a number of NGs for using some sort of
adhesive to repair the speaker. The most common response is something that
'suspiciously resembles Elmer's glue'. However, a few more sophisticated
replies suggested that proper glue IS NOT Elmer's.
I am asking for some specific ideas on how to repair the cone with an
adhesive I can obtain from my local hardware store or Radio Shack.
Yes, I have posted this on a couple of other NGs. Hope the cross-post
doesn't piss anyone off. Just wasn't sure which NG was most appropriate.
Thanks,
MajBach
Click to expand...
 
True, you 'could' change the sound of one woofer, but seriously, folks....

He's possibly got a pretty easily corrected problem here. Given that many
replace the entire surrounds in their drivers, simply re-attaching a
surround that has become separated one third of the way around, shouldn't
necessarily be cause for trashing the entire unit.

To the OP: research the advice given on this group a couple of weeks ago
concerning a repair to a hole in a surround. Then check the web for advice.
There's a plethora of it out there. Call Paradigm if it makes you more
comfortable, but by all means, DO NOT consider this a repair that you should
automatically *not* attempt!

After all, what do you have to lose? If you're unsuccessful, you can always
replace the driver. Given the quality control in todays manufacturing, you
have almost as high a chance of changing the sound of one woofer, if you
don't replace them both with units from the same manufacturing run, anyway.

jak

"Kalman Rubinson" <kr4@nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:dfci10h9m756dncl3l7sigrf43lp8l98tc@4ax.com...
This approach will work but is certain to result in one speaker
sounding different from another. As for the effect you get if you
"stiffen the suspension," that is not predictable.

Get a replacement from Paradigm.

Kal

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 01:06:00 -0600, gothika <gothika@bellsouth.net
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 00:04:48 -0500, "MajBach1"
removeallbut_majbach@sympatico.ca> wrote:
There are plent of sites online that sell the foam surround repair
kits and with a little care they work just fine.
Just be sure they have the necessary shims and such to ensure that you
get proper cone alignment when installing the new surround.
If you want to try a repair, low grade silicone can sometimes do the
trick. In fact I use it seal foam surrounds and stiffen the suspension
a bit on woofers I use.
Be sure to get the clear stuff, usually aquarium sealant or the food
grade stuff.
Stay away from the type used for windshield repair, while it's
flowable and easy to use, it hardens to rock like consistency.
Just coat the foam surround with a thin coat using an artist's brush
or small nylon bristle craft brush.
Even using the most flexible grade will tend to stiffen the suspension
a bit, however I find this a desirable trait as it tightens the bass
up a bit.

Hi, all. Before I state my problem, let me say that I did do an
extensive
search first and came up with more questions than answers
Anyway, the other day after playing some of the Matrix Soundtrack just
wee
bit too loud, one of my Paradigm speakers started sounding uncomfortably
similar to a boat full of fishermen after eating to much pork and beans.
I
disassembled it and noticed the cone had separated from the surround
about
1/3 the circumference. The surround is made of foam and the break is
very
clean. I was surprised to see that there is zero sign of dry-rot
especially
considering these speakers are at least a decade old.
I have found various suggestions over a number of NGs for using some
sort of
adhesive to repair the speaker. The most common response is something
that
'suspiciously resembles Elmer's glue'. However, a few more sophisticated
replies suggested that proper glue IS NOT Elmer's.
I am asking for some specific ideas on how to repair the cone with an
adhesive I can obtain from my local hardware store or Radio Shack.
Yes, I have posted this on a couple of other NGs. Hope the cross-post
doesn't piss anyone off. Just wasn't sure which NG was most appropriate.
Thanks,
MajBach
Click to expand...
 
You are right that he has little to lose by trying but, unless there
is something for the adhesive to bite on, it will fail again.
Surround replacements provide that little cone overlap for the
adhesive to be effective but we do not know the geometry of this
particular failure.

In addition, the change made by adding mass and/or stiffness is not
predictable except that it will exist. If the patchjob is acceptable
to him, I have no argument but it's not what I'd do.

Kal

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:50:09 -0600, "jakdedert"
<jdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote:

True, you 'could' change the sound of one woofer, but seriously, folks....

He's possibly got a pretty easily corrected problem here. Given that many
replace the entire surrounds in their drivers, simply re-attaching a
surround that has become separated one third of the way around, shouldn't
necessarily be cause for trashing the entire unit.

To the OP: research the advice given on this group a couple of weeks ago
concerning a repair to a hole in a surround. Then check the web for advice.
There's a plethora of it out there. Call Paradigm if it makes you more
comfortable, but by all means, DO NOT consider this a repair that you should
automatically *not* attempt!

After all, what do you have to lose? If you're unsuccessful, you can always
replace the driver. Given the quality control in todays manufacturing, you
have almost as high a chance of changing the sound of one woofer, if you
don't replace them both with units from the same manufacturing run, anyway.

jak

"Kalman Rubinson" <kr4@nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:dfci10h9m756dncl3l7sigrf43lp8l98tc@4ax.com...
This approach will work but is certain to result in one speaker
sounding different from another. As for the effect you get if you
"stiffen the suspension," that is not predictable.

Get a replacement from Paradigm.

Kal

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 01:06:00 -0600, gothika <gothika@bellsouth.net
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 00:04:48 -0500, "MajBach1"
removeallbut_majbach@sympatico.ca> wrote:
There are plent of sites online that sell the foam surround repair
kits and with a little care they work just fine.
Just be sure they have the necessary shims and such to ensure that you
get proper cone alignment when installing the new surround.
If you want to try a repair, low grade silicone can sometimes do the
trick. In fact I use it seal foam surrounds and stiffen the suspension
a bit on woofers I use.
Be sure to get the clear stuff, usually aquarium sealant or the food
grade stuff.
Stay away from the type used for windshield repair, while it's
flowable and easy to use, it hardens to rock like consistency.
Just coat the foam surround with a thin coat using an artist's brush
or small nylon bristle craft brush.
Even using the most flexible grade will tend to stiffen the suspension
a bit, however I find this a desirable trait as it tightens the bass
up a bit.

Hi, all. Before I state my problem, let me say that I did do an
extensive
search first and came up with more questions than answers
Anyway, the other day after playing some of the Matrix Soundtrack just
wee
bit too loud, one of my Paradigm speakers started sounding uncomfortably
similar to a boat full of fishermen after eating to much pork and beans.
I
disassembled it and noticed the cone had separated from the surround
about
1/3 the circumference. The surround is made of foam and the break is
very
clean. I was surprised to see that there is zero sign of dry-rot
especially
considering these speakers are at least a decade old.
I have found various suggestions over a number of NGs for using some
sort of
adhesive to repair the speaker. The most common response is something
that
'suspiciously resembles Elmer's glue'. However, a few more sophisticated
replies suggested that proper glue IS NOT Elmer's.
I am asking for some specific ideas on how to repair the cone with an
adhesive I can obtain from my local hardware store or Radio Shack.
Yes, I have posted this on a couple of other NGs. Hope the cross-post
doesn't piss anyone off. Just wasn't sure which NG was most appropriate.
Thanks,
MajBach
Click to expand...
 
Well, I'd have to see the driver myself to be sure, but it sounds like the
surround *separated* from the cone...not tore. If that's the case, like I
said, it should be a simple job to repair. The adhesive would have just as
much to adhere to, as it did originally. OTOH, if it's actually torn,
you're right. He may change the sound of one woofer...still worth trying in
order to find out. How much is anybody's guess. I'd be more worried about
whether there was any damage to the voice coil from rubbing in the gap; the
probable source of the noise he heard....

jak

"Kalman Rubinson" <kr4@nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:ummi10950khnet4rrn395v1f7m6dpaluvb@4ax.com...
You are right that he has little to lose by trying but, unless there
is something for the adhesive to bite on, it will fail again.
Surround replacements provide that little cone overlap for the
adhesive to be effective but we do not know the geometry of this
particular failure.

In addition, the change made by adding mass and/or stiffness is not
predictable except that it will exist. If the patchjob is acceptable
to him, I have no argument but it's not what I'd do.

Kal

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:50:09 -0600, "jakdedert"
jdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote:

True, you 'could' change the sound of one woofer, but seriously,
folks....

He's possibly got a pretty easily corrected problem here. Given that
many
replace the entire surrounds in their drivers, simply re-attaching a
surround that has become separated one third of the way around, shouldn't
necessarily be cause for trashing the entire unit.

To the OP: research the advice given on this group a couple of weeks ago
concerning a repair to a hole in a surround. Then check the web for
advice.
There's a plethora of it out there. Call Paradigm if it makes you more
comfortable, but by all means, DO NOT consider this a repair that you
should
automatically *not* attempt!

After all, what do you have to lose? If you're unsuccessful, you can
always
replace the driver. Given the quality control in todays manufacturing,
you
have almost as high a chance of changing the sound of one woofer, if you
don't replace them both with units from the same manufacturing run,
anyway.

jak

"Kalman Rubinson" <kr4@nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:dfci10h9m756dncl3l7sigrf43lp8l98tc@4ax.com...
This approach will work but is certain to result in one speaker
sounding different from another. As for the effect you get if you
"stiffen the suspension," that is not predictable.

Get a replacement from Paradigm.

Kal

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 01:06:00 -0600, gothika <gothika@bellsouth.net
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 00:04:48 -0500, "MajBach1"
removeallbut_majbach@sympatico.ca> wrote:
There are plent of sites online that sell the foam surround repair
kits and with a little care they work just fine.
Just be sure they have the necessary shims and such to ensure that you
get proper cone alignment when installing the new surround.
If you want to try a repair, low grade silicone can sometimes do the
trick. In fact I use it seal foam surrounds and stiffen the suspension
a bit on woofers I use.
Be sure to get the clear stuff, usually aquarium sealant or the food
grade stuff.
Stay away from the type used for windshield repair, while it's
flowable and easy to use, it hardens to rock like consistency.
Just coat the foam surround with a thin coat using an artist's brush
or small nylon bristle craft brush.
Even using the most flexible grade will tend to stiffen the suspension
a bit, however I find this a desirable trait as it tightens the bass
up a bit.

Hi, all. Before I state my problem, let me say that I did do an
extensive
search first and came up with more questions than answers
Anyway, the other day after playing some of the Matrix Soundtrack
just
wee
bit too loud, one of my Paradigm speakers started sounding
uncomfortably
similar to a boat full of fishermen after eating to much pork and
beans.
I
disassembled it and noticed the cone had separated from the surround
about
1/3 the circumference. The surround is made of foam and the break is
very
clean. I was surprised to see that there is zero sign of dry-rot
especially
considering these speakers are at least a decade old.
I have found various suggestions over a number of NGs for using some
sort of
adhesive to repair the speaker. The most common response is something
that
'suspiciously resembles Elmer's glue'. However, a few more
sophisticated
replies suggested that proper glue IS NOT Elmer's.
I am asking for some specific ideas on how to repair the cone with an
adhesive I can obtain from my local hardware store or Radio Shack.
Yes, I have posted this on a couple of other NGs. Hope the cross-post
doesn't piss anyone off. Just wasn't sure which NG was most
appropriate.
Thanks,
MajBach
Click to expand...
 
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:36:19 -0600, "jakdedert"
<jdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Well, I'd have to see the driver myself to be sure, but it sounds like the
surround *separated* from the cone...not tore. If that's the case, like I
said, it should be a simple job to repair. The adhesive would have just as
much to adhere to, as it did originally. OTOH, if it's actually torn,
you're right. He may change the sound of one woofer...still worth trying in
order to find out. How much is anybody's guess. I'd be more worried about
whether there was any damage to the voice coil from rubbing in the gap; the
probable source of the noise he heard....
Click to expand...
Another reason to be pessimistic about the repair. OTOH, there's
nothing to lose by trying except the cost of the glue.

Kal
 
This is the response I rec'd from the mfg after writing to them on the
problem:


"Hi Randy

If you want to try to re-attach the surround a white glue (such as Elmer's)
or contact cement can be used but both surfaces should be cleaned with
alcohol first.

Otherwise, a replacement driver can be ordered through one of our dealers
and the closest one in your area is:"



"MajBach1" <removeallbut_majbach@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:Wv0Sb.57271$Kg6.607045@news20.bellglobal.com...
Hi, all. Before I state my problem, let me say that I did do an extensive
search first and came up with more questions than answers
Anyway, the other day after playing some of the Matrix Soundtrack just wee
bit too loud, one of my Paradigm speakers started sounding uncomfortably
similar to a boat full of fishermen after eating to much pork and beans. I
disassembled it and noticed the cone had separated from the surround about
1/3 the circumference. The surround is made of foam and the break is very
clean. I was surprised to see that there is zero sign of dry-rot
especially
considering these speakers are at least a decade old.
I have found various suggestions over a number of NGs for using some sort
of
adhesive to repair the speaker. The most common response is something that
'suspiciously resembles Elmer's glue'. However, a few more sophisticated
replies suggested that proper glue IS NOT Elmer's.
I am asking for some specific ideas on how to repair the cone with an
adhesive I can obtain from my local hardware store or Radio Shack.
Yes, I have posted this on a couple of other NGs. Hope the cross-post
doesn't piss anyone off. Just wasn't sure which NG was most appropriate.
Thanks,
MajBach
Click to expand...
 
It depends on how picky you are, you can just fix the breach even if it is
torn, but it won't last forever. I run my system pretty hard and my most common
failure is the surrounds. Push comes to shove on a Saturday night I'll hot glue
it or disconnect it.

If you could get the following info, a suitable non-OEM replacement can be
found at a lower cost, but you can't just buy anything:

Total driver complement and crossover frqs

Type of system, ported, sealed and size

DC resistance of the woofer voice coil

Power handling (note 1)
Note 1: If you like to crank it up with alot of bass you should actually get a
better woofer, but to sound right it must be very similar in cone stiffness as
well as electrical characteristics. You Can get very good woofers from
different companies, among one of the better ones, Eminence. Unfortunately
their closest thing for my Bostons is just as expensive (but handles more
power) When looking for the original speakers specs., it is VERY important to
know the woofer crossover frequency and it helps to know the slope (3, 6 or
12Db/octave)

In either case I agree, take a crack at one of those repair kits, not much to
lose.

BTW, did Paradigm say just how much new ones cost ?

JURB
 
On 06 Feb 2004 00:56:27 GMT, jurb6006@aol.com (JURB6006) wrote:

It depends on how picky you are, you can just fix the breach even if it is
torn, but it won't last forever. I run my system pretty hard and my most common
failure is the surrounds. Push comes to shove on a Saturday night I'll hot glue
it or disconnect it.
Click to expand...
Hot glue sets much too stiff and weighty for this. OTOH, as you
imply, if someone has driven the system hard enought to blow it once,
he'll probably do it again with the repaired driver.

If you could get the following info, a suitable non-OEM replacement can be
found at a lower cost, but you can't just buy anything:

Total driver complement and crossover frqs

Type of system, ported, sealed and size

DC resistance of the woofer voice coil

Power handling (note 1)
Click to expand...
Inadequate. You need additional electrical and physical
characteristics if you expect similar performance in the given
enclosure.

In either case I agree, take a crack at one of those repair kits, not much to
lose.
Click to expand...
First stab.

Kal
 
On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 18:55:27 -0700 (MST), goodguyy@webtv.net (Ken G.)
wrote:

You are all making to big of drama about this . Get some fabric glue
from a craft store and glue the thing back together . it wont change the
sound ruin it or anything else .
Click to expand...
Mebbe but it really depends on how durable the repair is and what your
standards are for appropriate performance.

Kal
 
You are all making to big of drama about this . Get some fabric glue
from a craft store and glue the thing back together . it wont change the
sound ruin it or anything else .
 
On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:38:11 -0700 (MST), goodguyy@webtv.net (Ken G.)
wrote:

The fabric glue is very durable . It is the same type stuff that speaker
glue is .It stays flexable and is acid free . I have done totaly ruined
sub woofers with it & it did not come apart .
Click to expand...
Hot glue is not fabric glue. The latter, I agree, is suitable.

My standard for hearing speakers is normal .
Click to expand...
Normal hearing is fine. I was referring to one's personal standards
for sound quality.

Kal
 
The fabric glue is very durable . It is the same type stuff that speaker
glue is .It stays flexable and is acid free . I have done totaly ruined
sub woofers with it & it did not come apart .
My standard for hearing speakers is normal .
 
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