Speaker Repair

[Robert Green]

I've got a lot of big, small and medium speakers that have blown out over
the years. Typically I take them to the attic where they usually make
pretty good bookshelf supports.

In the spirit of domestic harmony, I am cleaning out said attic (anyone
*really* refer to their old college texts or books they have read in the
past anymore?). So with all the books being "de-accessioned"
(librarian-speak for "thrown out") I am left with a lot of bowed knotty pine
planks and burned out speakers.

If they can be salvaged, I can use them, but if they're likely to just blow
out again, I will send them to the curb monster that comes by late at night
before trash day.

So my question is this. Is it worth repairing 10 or 20 year old speakers?
Can replacements be readily had?

Is there a good site for diagnosing speaker problems? I almost always
assume it's a fine wire winding in the voice coil that shorted when a
speaker no longer even responds to a battery "click" test but I that's an
assumption.

Is it possible to match the characteristics of the old speakers closely
enough without manufacturer info like a parts list?

Do crossover networks ever go bad? Can they be tested with a multimeter?

And yes, I googled it,

http://www.google.com/search?q=diagnosing+speaker+problems&btnG=Search

but I didn't like very many of the sites it revealed. I'll keep searching
but Google ain't what she used to be.

Hmm, should have added "blown" to the search term - much better. Still not
great, though.

Thanks in advance for your input.

(Followups to alt.home.repair please!)

--
Bobby G.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

anyone *really* refer to their old college texts or books
they have read in the past anymore?

I do, on rare occasion.


You presumably have conventional dynamic speakers. It's unlikely any of them
could stand up to current models in terms of sound quality. (There are
exceptions.)

The fact that these speakers are "blown out" is suspicious. Speakers are
almost always blown out by gross abuse; it doesn't "just happen". As a
"classical snob" listener, I'm tempted to believe you don't deserve to own
good speakers, because you just crank up the volume without regard for whether
you're driving the speakers into distortion, a small step away from damaging
them.

Before repairing or replacing these speakers, you should find out /why/ you're
abusing them.

 

[amdx]

On 5/21/2014 7:29 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

anyone *really* refer to their old college texts or books
they have read in the past anymore?

I do, on rare occasion.


You presumably have conventional dynamic speakers. It's unlikely any of
them could stand up to current models in terms of sound quality. (There
are exceptions.)

The fact that these speakers are "blown out" is suspicious. Speakers are
almost always blown out by gross abuse; it doesn't "just happen". As a
"classical snob" listener, I'm tempted to believe you don't deserve to
own good speakers, because you just crank up the volume without regard
for whether you're driving the speakers into distortion, a small step
away from damaging them.

Before repairing or replacing these speakers, you should find out /why/
you're abusing them.

WHAT!

 

[Smarty]

On 5/21/2014 9:05 PM, amdx wrote:

On 5/21/2014 7:29 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
anyone *really* refer to their old college texts or books
they have read in the past anymore?

I do, on rare occasion.


You presumably have conventional dynamic speakers. It's unlikely any of
them could stand up to current models in terms of sound quality. (There
are exceptions.)

The fact that these speakers are "blown out" is suspicious. Speakers are
almost always blown out by gross abuse; it doesn't "just happen". As a
"classical snob" listener, I'm tempted to believe you don't deserve to
own good speakers, because you just crank up the volume without regard
for whether you're driving the speakers into distortion, a small step
away from damaging them.

Before repairing or replacing these speakers, you should find out /why/
you're abusing them.


WHAT!

Bobby,
If your attic is anything like mine with regard to temperature and
humidity control, hitting extremes in both parameters, I would caution
you to look carefully at the outcome of storage. You may find that new
issues now exist which did not arise until heat, cold, dust, etc. have
destroyed other elements of the speaker. The adhesives, rubber,
surrounds, electrolytics, cones, etc. can get irreversibly damaged after
a stay in harsh conditions.

Smarty

 

[Tony Hwang]

amdx wrote:

On 5/21/2014 7:29 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
anyone *really* refer to their old college texts or books
they have read in the past anymore?

I do, on rare occasion.


You presumably have conventional dynamic speakers. It's unlikely any of
them could stand up to current models in terms of sound quality. (There
are exceptions.)

The fact that these speakers are "blown out" is suspicious. Speakers are
almost always blown out by gross abuse; it doesn't "just happen". As a
"classical snob" listener, I'm tempted to believe you don't deserve to
own good speakers, because you just crank up the volume without regard
for whether you're driving the speakers into distortion, a small step
away from damaging them.

Before repairing or replacing these speakers, you should find out /why/
you're abusing them.


WHAT!

Hi,
El Cheapo amps blow speakers more. MY HT is 7.1 all Paradigm speakers
driven by Anthem MRX700.
2 ch. stereo is an old British Quad I mod'd with pair of Mirage M7s.

 

[N_Cook]

On 22/05/2014 00:24, Robert Green wrote:

I've got a lot of big, small and medium speakers that have blown out over
the years. Typically I take them to the attic where they usually make
pretty good bookshelf supports.

In the spirit of domestic harmony, I am cleaning out said attic (anyone
*really* refer to their old college texts or books they have read in the
past anymore?). So with all the books being "de-accessioned"
(librarian-speak for "thrown out") I am left with a lot of bowed knotty pine
planks and burned out speakers.

If they can be salvaged, I can use them, but if they're likely to just blow
out again, I will send them to the curb monster that comes by late at night
before trash day.

So my question is this. Is it worth repairing 10 or 20 year old speakers?
Can replacements be readily had?

Is there a good site for diagnosing speaker problems? I almost always
assume it's a fine wire winding in the voice coil that shorted when a
speaker no longer even responds to a battery "click" test but I that's an
assumption.

Is it possible to match the characteristics of the old speakers closely
enough without manufacturer info like a parts list?

Do crossover networks ever go bad? Can they be tested with a multimeter?

And yes, I googled it,

http://www.google.com/search?q=diagnosing+speaker+problems&btnG=Search

but I didn't like very many of the sites it revealed. I'll keep searching
but Google ain't what she used to be.

Hmm, should have added "blown" to the search term - much better. Still not
great, though.

Thanks in advance for your input.

(Followups to alt.home.repair please!)

--
Bobby G.

If this was a UK loft then you've increased the probability of adding
bits of iron-corrossion product , now trapped by the magnet , in the VC
gap , to give that classic scratchy sound, as well as the original failure

 

In sci.electronics.repair Robert Green <robert_green1963@yah00.com> wrote:
> Is it worth repairing 10 or 20 year old speakers?

Depends. Were these $500+/each audiopile speakers when new? If so, it
might be worth it. Did they come as a set with a $150 stereo system?
Maybe not worth it. In between... you have to decide.

> Can replacements be readily had?

You can get replacement drivers in various sizes and power handling
levels. You can probably get something "close"; whether that's good
enough for you is up to your ears.

> Is there a good site for diagnosing speaker problems?

http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/audiofaq.htm#audloud

I almost always assume it's a fine wire winding in the voice coil that
shorted when a speaker no longer even responds to a battery "click"
test but I that's an assumption.

The voice coil is more likely to be open. Sometimes you get lucky and
it's something easy, like the wire to the connectors/terminals on the
back panel has broken, or a push-on connector has fallen off.

Is it possible to match the characteristics of the old speakers
closely enough without manufacturer info like a parts list?

For higher-end ($$$) speakers, if you can't get exact replacements, you
can probably get parts that have been tested to work well in that
particular model. For cheap speakers, you try it and see.

> Do crossover networks ever go bad?

They can.

> Can they be tested with a multimeter?

Yes. You can see if the inductors (coils) are open circuit, and you
can check the capacitors for open or short circuits. You most likely
will need to unsolder at least one end of each component to make the
test.

It might be faster to note how the wires go, disconnect the crossovers,
and apply audio to each speaker driver directly. If you get sound, then
put the crossover back in line and run audio through it. If the sound
goes away or becomes hideously bad, then the crossover network is
broken.

> (Followups to alt.home.repair please!)

A real newsreader will allow you to set the Followup-To: header as you
desire. (Outhouse Depressed is not a real newsreader.)

Matt Roberds

 

[Smarty]

On 5/21/2014 11:01 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

"Smarty" wrote in message news:lljj5v$tlc$1@dont-email.me...

If your attic is anything like mine with regard to temperature
and humidity control, hitting extremes in both parameters,
I would caution you to look carefully at the outcome of storage.
You may find that new issues now exist which did not arise until
heat, cold, dust, etc. have destroyed other elements of the speaker.
The adhesives, rubber, surrounds, electrolytics, cones, etc. can
get irreversibly damaged after a stay in harsh conditions.

Absolutely valid points. But he said these speakers were blown out
before being put in storage.

Yes, and I added that attic storage can further contribute new and
unexpected issues. Expecting a speaker which was 'blown out' with a
fried voice coil on the woofer may surprisingly reveal, after storage,
an inoperative tweeter, damaged by attic heat.

My point in posting this caveat was to caution the original poster that
the condition of the speaker when it was put into attic storage may not
reflect the current status due to the attic environment itself.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Smarty" wrote in message news:lljj5v$tlc$1@dont-email.me...

If your attic is anything like mine with regard to temperature
and humidity control, hitting extremes in both parameters,
I would caution you to look carefully at the outcome of storage.
You may find that new issues now exist which did not arise until
heat, cold, dust, etc. have destroyed other elements of the speaker.
The adhesives, rubber, surrounds, electrolytics, cones, etc. can
get irreversibly damaged after a stay in harsh conditions.

Absolutely valid points. But he said these speakers were blown out before
being put in storage.

 

[NotMe]

"Robert Green" <robert_green1963@yah00.com> wrote in message
news:llje3k$d8a$1@speranza.aioe.org...

I've got a lot of big, small and medium speakers that have blown out over
the years. Typically I take them to the attic where they usually make
pretty good bookshelf supports.

In the spirit of domestic harmony, I am cleaning out said attic (anyone
*really* refer to their old college texts or books they have read in the
past anymore?). So with all the books being "de-accessioned"
(librarian-speak for "thrown out") I am left with a lot of bowed knotty
pine
planks and burned out speakers.

If they can be salvaged, I can use them, but if they're likely to just
blow
out again, I will send them to the curb monster that comes by late at
night
before trash day.

So my question is this. Is it worth repairing 10 or 20 year old speakers?
Can replacements be readily had?

Is there a good site for diagnosing speaker problems? I almost always
assume it's a fine wire winding in the voice coil that shorted when a
speaker no longer even responds to a battery "click" test but I that's an
assumption.

Is it possible to match the characteristics of the old speakers closely
enough without manufacturer info like a parts list?

Do crossover networks ever go bad? Can they be tested with a multimeter?

And yes, I googled it,

http://www.google.com/search?q=diagnosing+speaker+problems&btnG=Search

but I didn't like very many of the sites it revealed. I'll keep searching
but Google ain't what she used to be.

Hmm, should have added "blown" to the search term - much better. Still
not
great, though.

Thanks in advance for your input.

(Followups to alt.home.repair please!)

If you're blowing out speakers with that regularity I expect a sever miss
math in equipment. The second would be a recommendation to have your
hearing check as you may have damaged/serious loss of hearing.

All my kids were big into music. I made sure they wore ear protection at
concerts and especially when they were performing. Unlike me (too many
years near jet engines) they can still hear a pin drop.

 

[Robert Green]

"Smarty" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message
news:lljj5v$tlc$1@dont-email.me...

<stuff snipped>

Bobby,
If your attic is anything like mine with regard to temperature and
humidity control, hitting extremes in both parameters, I would caution
you to look carefully at the outcome of storage. You may find that new
issues now exist which did not arise until heat, cold, dust, etc. have
destroyed other elements of the speaker. The adhesives, rubber,
surrounds, electrolytics, cones, etc. can get irreversibly damaged after
a stay in harsh conditions.

Those are good points. It's not too bad up there, but there is a good
possibility that there's heat or aging damage and replacing a bad tweeter or
midrange would just be followed up by the failure of a woofer after the
repaired speaker has been run for a while.

Thanks for your input!

--
Bobby G.

 

[Smarty]

On 5/22/2014 9:05 PM, Robert Green wrote:

"Smarty" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message
news:lljj5v$tlc$1@dont-email.me...

stuff snipped

Bobby,
If your attic is anything like mine with regard to temperature and
humidity control, hitting extremes in both parameters, I would caution
you to look carefully at the outcome of storage. You may find that new
issues now exist which did not arise until heat, cold, dust, etc. have
destroyed other elements of the speaker. The adhesives, rubber,
surrounds, electrolytics, cones, etc. can get irreversibly damaged after
a stay in harsh conditions.
Those are good points. It's not too bad up there, but there is a good
possibility that there's heat or aging damage and replacing a bad tweeter or
midrange would just be followed up by the failure of a woofer after the
repaired speaker has been run for a while.

Thanks for your input!

--
Bobby G.

Glad to offer an opinion Bobby. My attic can reach well over 100 degrees F in the summer and below 0 in the winter, so the comments I offered were not merely theoretical! I have lost some equipment which was stored in working condition, only to find it inoperative years later. Now I am much more careful about what gets stored up there.

 

[Robert Green]

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:llk4g8$qp4$1@dont-email.me...

<stuff snipped>

If this was a UK loft then you've increased the probability of adding
bits of iron-corrossion product , now trapped by the magnet , in the VC
gap , to give that classic scratchy sound, as well as the original failure

It's a fairly high humidity Washington DC attic.

I didn't know that ferrous debris in the VC gap was an issue. I thought the
scratchy sound came from the voice coil detaching from the paper/plastic
cone.

Thanks for your input!

--
Bobby G.

 

I didn't know that ferrous debris in the VC gap was an issue. I thought the scratchy sound came from the voice coil detaching from the paper/plastic cone. Thanks for your input! -- Bobby G.

The scrqatchy sound can come from either problem. I have seen corrosion develope on the internal magnet as well as the frame. Essentially this will wear on the coil and cause the speaker to fail completely. Having reconed speakers for many years, I would typically clean the gap and check for any debris. Usually there is not too much unless the unit has been stored in a damp area for a long time. Once cleaned and rebuilt, the speaker is back to normal. (assuming that the correct coil, cone and spider is used.)

Dan

 

[Ian Field]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:lljpa3$1vg$1@dont-email.me...

"Smarty" wrote in message news:lljj5v$tlc$1@dont-email.me...

If your attic is anything like mine with regard to temperature
and humidity control, hitting extremes in both parameters,
I would caution you to look carefully at the outcome of storage.
You may find that new issues now exist which did not arise until
heat, cold, dust, etc. have destroyed other elements of the speaker.
The adhesives, rubber, surrounds, electrolytics, cones, etc. can
get irreversibly damaged after a stay in harsh conditions.

Absolutely valid points. But he said these speakers were blown out before
being put in storage.

I don't know the correct names for speaker bits - but if the cone has been
over extended to the flexible webbing that supports the cone around the
speech coil has torn, there could be all kinds of crap settled in the gap
between the magnet poles.

A tiny minority refurbish their own speakers, a not much bigger minority
take them to specialist rebuilders - either way is unlikely to be cheaper
than buying new ones.

 

[Ian Field]

"NotMe" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:lll2br$3ir$1@dont-email.me...

"Robert Green" <robert_green1963@yah00.com> wrote in message
news:llje3k$d8a$1@speranza.aioe.org...
I've got a lot of big, small and medium speakers that have blown out over
the years. Typically I take them to the attic where they usually make
pretty good bookshelf supports.

In the spirit of domestic harmony, I am cleaning out said attic (anyone
*really* refer to their old college texts or books they have read in the
past anymore?). So with all the books being "de-accessioned"
(librarian-speak for "thrown out") I am left with a lot of bowed knotty
pine
planks and burned out speakers.

If they can be salvaged, I can use them, but if they're likely to just
blow
out again, I will send them to the curb monster that comes by late at
night
before trash day.

So my question is this. Is it worth repairing 10 or 20 year old
speakers?
Can replacements be readily had?

Is there a good site for diagnosing speaker problems? I almost always
assume it's a fine wire winding in the voice coil that shorted when a
speaker no longer even responds to a battery "click" test but I that's an
assumption.

Is it possible to match the characteristics of the old speakers closely
enough without manufacturer info like a parts list?

Do crossover networks ever go bad? Can they be tested with a multimeter?

And yes, I googled it,

http://www.google.com/search?q=diagnosing+speaker+problems&btnG=Search

but I didn't like very many of the sites it revealed. I'll keep
searching
but Google ain't what she used to be.

Hmm, should have added "blown" to the search term - much better. Still
not
great, though.

Thanks in advance for your input.

(Followups to alt.home.repair please!)

If you're blowing out speakers with that regularity I expect a sever miss
math in equipment. The second would be a recommendation to have your
hearing check as you may have damaged/serious loss of hearing.

All my kids were big into music. I made sure they wore ear protection at
concerts and especially when they were performing. Unlike me (too many
years near jet engines) they can still hear a pin drop.

Its when you can't hear a speaker cone hit the opposite wall you need to
worry!

 

[Robert Green]

"Smarty" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message
news:llnn51$2tk$1@dont-email.me...

<stuff snipped>

<Glad to offer an opinion Bobby. My attic can reach well over 100 degrees F
in the summer and below 0 in the winter, so the comments I offered were not
merely theoretical! I have lost some equipment which was stored in working
condition, only to find it inoperative years later. Now I am much more
careful about what gets stored up there.>

Sometimes attics are like purgatory. You put things up there that you don't
have the heart to throw away at the time. The books died a slow death up
there, making it easy to decide to recycle them as waste. No library would
want them. It was very easy to see which publishers used cheap paper and
which didn't. Some pages just crumbled when turned.

The speakers that served as spacing blocks for the shelves will probably
soon follow the books. I connected one up that had a scratchy midrange and
watched the woofer speaker cone just shred at tje edges after just a few
seconds of operation. Ironically, that same fate befell a speaker stored
under much better conditions. Time seems to be a serious enemy of the
speaker as much as sub-optimal storage conditions.

I have to admit that on occasion, the attic has "healed" things that were
previously non-functional. Certainly not as often as it hastened their
doom, but often enough to encourage a temporary retirement to the attic
before heading out to feed the curb monster.

--
Bobby G.

 

[Ian Field]

"Robert Green" <robert_green1963@yah00.com> wrote in message
news:llud5c$u9h$1@speranza.aioe.org...

"Smarty" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message
news:llnn51$2tk$1@dont-email.me...

stuff snipped

Glad to offer an opinion Bobby. My attic can reach well over 100 degrees
F
in the summer and below 0 in the winter, so the comments I offered were
not
merely theoretical! I have lost some equipment which was stored in working
condition, only to find it inoperative years later. Now I am much more
careful about what gets stored up there.

Sometimes attics are like purgatory. You put things up there that you
don't
have the heart to throw away at the time. The books died a slow death up
there, making it easy to decide to recycle them as waste. No library
would
want them. It was very easy to see which publishers used cheap paper and
which didn't. Some pages just crumbled when turned.

The speakers that served as spacing blocks for the shelves will probably
soon follow the books. I connected one up that had a scratchy midrange
and
watched the woofer speaker cone just shred at tje edges after just a few
seconds of operation. Ironically, that same fate befell a speaker stored
under much better conditions. Time seems to be a serious enemy of the
speaker as much as sub-optimal storage conditions.

Some allegedly high quality speakers have some sort of flexible foam rubber
as the suspension round the outside of the cone - it usually perishes sooner
rather than later.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Ian Field" wrote in message news:m7Kgv.181325$8%2.35334@fx06.am4...

Some allegedly high quality speakers have some sort of flexible
foam rubber [sic] as the suspension round the outside of the cone
-- it usually perishes sooner rather than later.

Foam has largely been abandoned because it eventually self-destructs. It isn't
rubber, it's a synthetic polymer.

I have a pair of original Advents (final green-tweeter iteration), with foam
surrounds in perfect condition. Why, I don't know.

 

[Unquestionably Confused]

On 5/26/2014 11:56 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

"Ian Field" wrote in message news:m7Kgv.181325$8%2.35334@fx06.am4...

Some allegedly high quality speakers have some sort of flexible
foam rubber [sic] as the suspension round the outside of the cone
-- it usually perishes sooner rather than later.

Foam has largely been abandoned because it eventually self-destructs. It
isn't rubber, it's a synthetic polymer.

I have a pair of original Advents (final green-tweeter iteration), with
foam surrounds in perfect condition. Why, I don't know.

Nothing allegedly about it. I have a pair of Infinity speakers (~ 30
yrs old now) and had to replace the surrounds on several of the speakers
a year or so back. Foam becomes brittle (age? atmosphere? dog farts?
sun/ambient light?) and just starts to disintegrate.

Fortunately, found an outfit on line that sells kits for DIY repair.
Figured that I had nothing to lose I popped for the kits and repair was
a piece of cake. All's well and I'm good for another 30 years (well,
not me, but the speakers<g&gt