Spartan3 device with long availability

T

Thomas Heller

Guest
I have to develop some electronics that will probably fit nicely into
a spartan3 device xc3s200 or xc3s400. Which series / package should
I choose for long availability?

I am considering the TQFP144 or PQ208 package, I try to avoid BGA.
Will there be any differences in the long-term availability
between spartan 3, spartan 3A, spartan 3E, or even spartan 3AN?

Thanks,
Thomas
 
I try to avoid BGA.
Click to expand...
Don't.
It has many advantages over the other packages,
among them
- better yield in soldering.
- less EMI
- less ground bounce
- less board space
- better cooling

Kolja
 
Thomas Heller <theller@ctypes.org> wrote:
I have to develop some electronics that will probably fit nicely into
a spartan3 device xc3s200 or xc3s400. Which series / package should
I choose for long availability?

I am considering the TQFP144 or PQ208 package, I try to avoid BGA.
Will there be any differences in the long-term availability
between spartan 3, spartan 3A, spartan 3E, or even spartan 3AN?
Click to expand...
No hints for availability, but 3E and 3A configure from cheap commodity
serialflash and 3A and 3AN can run with only 3.3/1.2 Volt, while S3 and S3E
always need 2.5 Volt.

Otherwise S2 was introduced around 2000, but still seems running strong, so
thi may indicate whats happening with S3...
--
Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
 
Kolja Sulimma <ksulimma@googlemail.com> wrote:
I try to avoid BGA.

Don't.
It has many advantages over the other packages,
among them
- better yield in soldering.
- less EMI
- less ground bounce
- less board space
- better cooling
Click to expand...
And if you go th BGA, you might now consider S6.
S6 in QFP still is _not_ available...
--
Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
 
On Nov 20, 8:12 am, Uwe Bonnes <b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-
darmstadt.de> wrote:
Thomas Heller <thel...@ctypes.org> wrote:
I have to develop some electronics that will probably fit nicely into
a spartan3 device xc3s200 or xc3s400.  Which series / package should
I choose for long availability?
I am considering the TQFP144 or PQ208 package, I try to avoid BGA.
Will there be any differences in the long-term availability
between spartan 3, spartan 3A, spartan 3E, or even spartan 3AN?

No hints for availability, but 3E and 3A configure from cheap commodity
serialflash and 3A and 3AN can run with only 3.3/1.2 Volt, while S3 and S3E
always need 2.5 Volt.

Otherwise S2 was introduced around 2000, but still seems running strong, so
thi may indicate whats happening with S3...
--
Uwe Bonnes                b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
Click to expand...
S3A is the newest of the S3 series, and likely to survive longest. It
is
also cheapest per LUT. I would stay away from the S3AN which is a
die-stack FPGA / SPI flash combo. You can do the same thing with
a very inexpensive external SPI flash chip, and you don't have to
worry about Xilinx's own long term arrangement to obtain the stacked
flash device.

S3A also has some architectural advantages over the older versions
including better IDELAY elements, but be careful to read the I/O
restrictions, because part of the price reduction was to make the
top/bottom banks have different subsets of the I/O capabilities than
the left/right banks. If you can get all of the I/O you need in the
available packages, then the S3A is probably the best choice.

Regards,
Gabor
 
Am 20.11.2010 13:03, schrieb Kolja Sulimma:
I try to avoid BGA.

Don't.
It has many advantages over the other packages,
among them
- better yield in soldering.
- less EMI
- less ground bounce
- less board space
- better cooling

Kolja
Click to expand...
How are you doing prototyping with BGA packages?

Thomas
 
Thomas

I would expect the XC3S200 and XC3S400 to have a long life even though
it is 6-7 years or so since there were first available. I won't be
surprised if these are still available in 10 years time. What is
likely is that they will get more expensive, and maybe have longer
lead times, in the coming years as Spartan-6, and later, take over as
main low cost families.

II would also consider Spartan-6 as it will have an even longer
lifetime. Most of Spartan-6 is available now in small numbers if not
large numbers. Digikey are showing stock in the TQFP package.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd. - Home of Drigmorn3. The Cost Effective Spartan-6
Development Board.


On Nov 20, 9:27 am, Thomas Heller <thel...@ctypes.org> wrote:
I have to develop some electronics that will probably fit nicely into
a spartan3 device xc3s200 or xc3s400.  Which series / package should
I choose for long availability?

I am considering the TQFP144 or PQ208 package, I try to avoid BGA.
Will there be any differences in the long-term availability
between spartan 3, spartan 3A, spartan 3E, or even spartan 3AN?

Thanks,
Thomas
Click to expand...
 
John Adair <g1@enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:
...
large numbers. Digikey are showing stock in the TQFP package.
Click to expand...
.... with a constant lead time 6 weeks in the future.

--
Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
 
Thomas Heller <theller@ctypes.org> wrote:

Am 20.11.2010 13:03, schrieb Kolja Sulimma:
I try to avoid BGA.

Don't.
It has many advantages over the other packages,
among them
- better yield in soldering.
- less EMI
- less ground bounce
- less board space
- better cooling

Kolja

How are you doing prototyping with BGA packages?
Click to expand...
Get your own reflow oven kit like this:

http://www2.conrad.nl/goto.php?artikel=530330

I'm pretty sure similar (much cheaper) kits are offered on Ebay. I
never tried it but it looks usefull for prototyping.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------
 
Uwe

Spartan-6 availability is improving very rapidly and in many cases is
now on shorter lead time than Spartan-3 parts. We have a considerable
amount here now of the parts we use most awaiting some time on our
line to build more development boards. 4-6 weeks is usually the
standard lead time value, usually quoted in better times, on Spartan
families if you buy them in any numbers.

The general components shortage is only starting to improve and Xilinx
are doing a much better job than most vendors. It's not quite a
paradise yet but I expect Q1/2011 we will be back to nearly normal
supply conditions and almost certainly for FPGA availability.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd.

On Nov 21, 9:12 pm, Uwe Bonnes <b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-
darmstadt.de> wrote:
John Adair <g...@enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:

..

large numbers. Digikey are showing stock in the TQFP package.

... with a constant lead time 6 weeks in the future.

--
Uwe Bonnes                b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
Click to expand...
 
John Adair <g1@enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:
Uwe

Spartan-6 availability is improving very rapidly and in many cases is
now on shorter lead time than Spartan-3 parts. We have a considerable
amount here now of the parts we use most awaiting some time on our
line to build more development boards. 4-6 weeks is usually the
standard lead time value, usually quoted in better times, on Spartan
families if you buy them in any numbers.
Click to expand...
We are looking at QFP package. And lead time is _constant_ 6 weeks in the
future ...

--
Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
 
On Nov 22, 6:39 pm, Uwe Bonnes <b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-
darmstadt.de> wrote:
John Adair <g...@enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:
Uwe
Spartan-6 availability is improving very rapidly and in many cases is
now on shorter lead time than Spartan-3 parts. We have a considerable
amount here now of the parts we use most awaiting some time on our
line to build more development boards. 4-6 weeks is usually the
standard lead time value, usually quoted in better times, on Spartan
families if you buy them in any numbers.

We are looking at QFP package. And lead time is _constant_ 6 weeks in the
future ...

--
Uwe Bonnes                b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
Click to expand...
Ah, yes... Alice through the looking-glass! You can have
jam "every other day" (which means never today).
 
"Thomas Heller" <theller@ctypes.org> wrote in message
news:8ks9nqF329U1@mid.individual.net...
How are you doing prototyping with BGA packages?
Click to expand...
FPGA's I would prototype on an eval board.
I don't use these myself, but look at http://www.emulation.com/
They may have some sockets that could just squeeze in.
 
Morten Leikvoll <mleikvol@yahoo.nospam> wrote:
"Thomas Heller" <theller@ctypes.org> wrote in message
news:8ks9nqF329U1@mid.individual.net...
How are you doing prototyping with BGA packages?

FPGA's I would prototype on an eval board.
I don't use these myself, but look at http://www.emulation.com/
They may have some sockets that could just squeeze in.
Click to expand...
Normally you prototype some circuit, where the FPGA is only soure and sink
of data, with many connectins to the fpga. Using some FPGA prototype board
means designing two time, first with the prototype board, then with the fpga
on board...

--
Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
 
On 11/20/2010 10:27, Thomas Heller wrote:
Which series / package should I choose for long availability?
Click to expand...
What's long in your terms?

I'm in the measurement equipment industry, our oldest products have been
on the market for fifteen years and they contain Xilinx FPGAs that have
been introduced about seventeen years ago, which have been discontinued
lately.

Usually, we aim for parts which are targeted at the automotive industry
since they have the tendency to have a longer lifetime.

- Philip
--
Some of the best things in life are total mistakes.
(Rachel Porter)
 
Am 25.11.2010 10:11, schrieb Philip Herzog:
On 11/20/2010 10:27, Thomas Heller wrote:
Which series / package should I choose for long availability?

What's long in your terms?

I'm in the measurement equipment industry, our oldest products have been
on the market for fifteen years and they contain Xilinx FPGAs that have
been introduced about seventeen years ago, which have been discontinued
lately.
Click to expand...
We are in a very similar situation; our product lifetime is also around
10 years. We have boards still in production based on parts like 4006
(no longer available but we have some stock although they were very
expensive), XCS05, XC3S200. Plus XC9572/XC9572XL cplds.

Usually, we aim for parts which are targeted at the automotive industry
since they have the tendency to have a longer lifetime.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this tip.

Thomas
 
Am 24.11.2010 11:48, schrieb Morten Leikvoll:
"Thomas Heller"<theller@ctypes.org> wrote in message
news:8ks9nqF329U1@mid.individual.net...
How are you doing prototyping with BGA packages?

FPGA's I would prototype on an eval board.
I don't use these myself, but look at http://www.emulation.com/
They may have some sockets that could just squeeze in.


Looks interesting, but expensive ;-).
Click to expand...
 
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