Some Solar problems ahead?

[Metro]

Looks like there could be problems ahead. Had to happen I suppose. Not
enough thought went into it........


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-plan/rooftop-solar-panels-overloading-electricity-grid/story-fn99tjf2-1226165360822

 

[terryc]

Metro wrote:

Looks like there could be problems ahead. Had to happen I suppose. Not
enough thought went into it........

rooftop-solar-panels-overloading-electricity-grid

Isn't that vindication of the program to install them;they can meet
demand, The overloading infrastructure problem should be laid at the
feet of the various state governments who ratted the infrastruture
refurbishfund that all the various electrical authorities had put aside.
That is why you are not going to pay 30%+ on your electricity bills.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

On 10/13/2011 8:00 AM, Metro wrote:

Looks like there could be problems ahead. Had to happen I suppose. Not
enough thought went into it........


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-plan/rooftop-solar-panels-overloading-electricity-grid/story-fn99tjf2-1226165360822

**Care to explain how grid connected inverters are capable of feeding
MORE than mains Voltage (whether it is a nominal 230VAC or 240VAC) into
the grid? I have assumed that they all must meet the stringent criteria
laid down by the authorities.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Phil Allison]

"Trevor Wilson"

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-plan/rooftop-solar-panels-overloading-electricity-grid/story-fn99tjf2-1226165360822

**Care to explain how grid connected inverters are capable of feeding MORE
than mains Voltage (whether it is a nominal 230VAC or 240VAC) into the
grid?

** No current would flow from the inverter UNLESS it put out more volts than
were otherwise on the incoming line.

The story is mostly a beat up of something quite minor that happens only in
rural locations with long supply lines and hence relatively high source
impedance AC supplies. Such locations already suffer wider variations in the
AC voltage.

BTW:

High AC voltages mostly affect the lifespans of ordinary, 240 volt rated
incandescent lamps - which are banned from sale anyhow.


.... Phil

 

[Metro]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:9fn6dvFd5oU1@mid.individual.net...

"Trevor Wilson"


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-plan/rooftop-solar-panels-overloading-electricity-grid/story-fn99tjf2-1226165360822

**Care to explain how grid connected inverters are capable of feeding
MORE than mains Voltage (whether it is a nominal 230VAC or 240VAC) into
the grid?


** No current would flow from the inverter UNLESS it put out more volts
than were otherwise on the incoming line.

The story is mostly a beat up of something quite minor that happens only
in rural locations with long supply lines and hence relatively high source
impedance AC supplies. Such locations already suffer wider variations in
the AC voltage.

BTW:

High AC voltages mostly affect the lifespans of ordinary, 240 volt rated
incandescent lamps - which are banned from sale anyhow.


... Phil


Just to be pedantic. Not all incandescent lamps are banned from

sale.......For instance.

http://lightingpro.com.au/catalog/index.php?cPath=21&RD=LPHomTxtLightGlobes

Pity though, nothing like the old 60w pearl.

 

[TonyS]

On 13/10/2011 5:00 AM, Metro wrote:

Looks like there could be problems ahead. Had to happen I suppose. Not
enough thought went into it........


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-plan/rooftop-solar-panels-overloading-electricity-grid/story-fn99tjf2-1226165360822

What's that supposed to mean:

'Mr Hart said the size of conductors and cables in the streets would
have to be upgraded "so it can handle lots of solar, versus times when
there's lots of load and no solar".'

As if our infrastructure was designed with local solar PV supply in
mind. That sounds like a lot of BS to me.

The problems I see are rapid changes of insolation in areas where PV
supply is dominant (e.g. clouds moving fast). It takes time for the flow
from the power station to react. And that's how I imagine over and under
voltages could occur. Obviously, if most of the inverters are working
properly and cut out when the voltage gets to high there would be at
least no over voltage.

Tony

 

[Phil Allison]

"Tony Simpleton"

What's that supposed to mean:

'Mr Hart said the size of conductors and cables in the streets would have
to be upgraded "so it can handle lots of solar, versus times when
there's lots of load and no solar".'

** Makes perfect sense.

If there is adequate copper, then voltage drop problems vanish.

The problems I see are rapid changes of insolation in areas where PV
supply is dominant (e.g. clouds moving fast). It takes time for the flow
from the power station to react.

** My god - you really are off with the fairies.



.... Phil

 

[Jeßus]

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 15:06:12 +1100, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

incandescent lamps - which are banned from sale anyhow.

Only last Tuesday, I spotted a shelf full of incandescent bulbs on
sale at Coles in Launceston.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

On 10/14/2011 7:24 AM, Jeßus wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 15:06:12 +1100, "Phil Allison"<phil_a@tpg.com.au
wrote:


incandescent lamps - which are banned from sale anyhow.

Only last Tuesday, I spotted a shelf full of incandescent bulbs on
sale at Coles in Launceston.

**There are still a large variety of IC lamps available. Fancy shapes,
odd bases, halogens and others.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Phil Allison]

"Jeßus"

"Phil Allison"

incandescent lamps - which are banned from sale anyhow.


Only last Tuesday, I spotted a shelf full of incandescent bulbs on
sale at Coles in Launceston.

** What a vile, over snipping turd you are.

My original comment was:

"High AC voltages mostly affect the lifespans of ordinary, 240 volt rated
incandescent lamps - which are banned from sale anyhow. "

FFS " ordinary, 240 volt rated " = GLS, non halogen.



.... Phil

 

[Jeßus]

On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 08:10:12 +1100, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

** What a vile, over snipping turd you are.

And what's worse, no remorse about it either.

Fortunately for turds like myself, crimes against Usenet do not fall
under the ICC's jurisdiction, else I'd fully expect to be extradited
to The Hague.

My original comment was:

"High AC voltages mostly affect the lifespans of ordinary, 240 volt rated
incandescent lamps - which are banned from sale anyhow. "

FFS " ordinary, 240 volt rated " = GLS, non halogen.

OK. So what is 'GLS'?

 

[Trevor Wilson]

On 10/14/2011 9:20 AM, Jeßus wrote:

On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 08:10:12 +1100, "Phil Allison"<phil_a@tpg.com.au
wrote:

** What a vile, over snipping turd you are.

And what's worse, no remorse about it either.

Fortunately for turds like myself, crimes against Usenet do not fall
under the ICC's jurisdiction, else I'd fully expect to be extradited
to The Hague.

My original comment was:

"High AC voltages mostly affect the lifespans of ordinary, 240 volt rated
incandescent lamps - which are banned from sale anyhow. "

FFS " ordinary, 240 volt rated " = GLS, non halogen.

OK. So what is 'GLS'?

**General Lighting Service.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[SFD]

........snip etc.

OK. So what is 'GLS'?

It's a badge you see on the back of some automobiles.

 

[Jeßus]

On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 08:37:19 +1000, "SFD" <sfd@127000.00> wrote:

.......snip etc.

OK. So what is 'GLS'?

It's a badge you see on the back of some automobiles.

Oh. 'Thanks' for that

 

[Metro]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:9fnnciFhg2U1@mid.individual.net...

"Tony Simpleton"

What's that supposed to mean:

'Mr Hart said the size of conductors and cables in the streets would have
to be upgraded "so it can handle lots of solar, versus times when
there's lots of load and no solar".'


** Makes perfect sense.

If there is adequate copper, then voltage drop problems vanish.

That's the question. Is there adequate copper? I think maybe not with all

the upgrading going on throughout the Western Suburbs of Sydney

 

[TonyS]

On 13/10/2011 4:55 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"Tony Simpleton"

What's that supposed to mean:

'Mr Hart said the size of conductors and cables in the streets would have
to be upgraded "so it can handle lots of solar, versus times when
there's lots of load and no solar".'


** Makes perfect sense.

If there is adequate copper, then voltage drop problems vanish.



The problems I see are rapid changes of insolation in areas where PV
supply is dominant (e.g. clouds moving fast). It takes time for the flow
from the power station to react.


** My god - you really are off with the fairies.



... Phil

I was, at least someone pays attention

 

[John Tserkezis]

Metro wrote:

Looks like there could be problems ahead. Had to happen I suppose. Not
enough thought went into it........

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-plan/rooftop-solar-panels-overloading-electricity-grid/story-fn99tjf2-1226165360822

Did you miss the fact that the author of that 'The Australian' article
is a complete knob, and has no idea on how the grid works?
He invents terminology, quotes others out of context, and quotes
installers who have equally no clue on how anything works at all.

The Internet is loaded with lots of information on how the power grid
works in general, and how the different forms of solar controllers work,
AND how they interact with the grid.

I would suggest reading one of those, because *this* article is NOT
one of them.
--
Newsbytes - Microsoft announce EDLIN for Windows

 

[Metro]

"John Tserkezis" <jt@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:j799kh$oid$1@dont-email.me...

Metro wrote:

Looks like there could be problems ahead. Had to happen I suppose. Not
enough thought went into it........


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-plan/rooftop-solar-panels-overloading-electricity-grid/story-fn99tjf2-1226165360822

Did you miss the fact that the author of that 'The Australian' article is
a complete knob, and has no idea on how the grid works?
He invents terminology, quotes others out of context, and quotes
installers who have equally no clue on how anything works at all.

The Internet is loaded with lots of information on how the power grid
works in general, and how the different forms of solar controllers work,
AND how they interact with the grid.

I would suggest reading one of those, because *this* article is NOT one
of them.
--
The author also quoted "One of Australia's biggest electricity network

providers, Ausgrid, yesterday warned that there was a "significant
likelihood" that costs would have to rise because of the impact of the solar
photovoltaic cells." All a ruse I suppose. To me what you say is most
probably correct in theory. But not in practice. The condition of the
network aint so good. No forethought to future needs and technology was
given by the planners a few years ago and I think we are starting to pay for
it now. It's not only copper but also lack of maintenance to pad mounts,
pole mounts and general hardware upgrades. But then I didn't go to uni to
learn all this. I just work with it!

 

[Dimmer]

"Metro" <Home@home> wrote in message
news:4e98ad14$0$2447$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"John Tserkezis" <jt@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:j799kh$oid$1@dont-email.me...
Metro wrote:

Looks like there could be problems ahead. Had to happen I suppose. Not
enough thought went into it........


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-plan/rooftop-solar-panels-overloading-electricity-grid/story-fn99tjf2-1226165360822

Did you miss the fact that the author of that 'The Australian' article
is a complete knob, and has no idea on how the grid works?

Article and quotes by CEOs seem complete rubbish to me as a layman. Here's
my take: The supply from a normal solar panel is unlikely to exceed what a
home uses unless of course everything if off and the people are away. So
given that usually a user of solar panels will simply be *reducing* the call
on the mains supply, the net power drawn through the gird will be less, so
shortcomings in copper should not be a problem.

True there wll certainly be fluctuation when there is intermittent cloud
cover, but on the whole that should be 'normal demand' punctuated by reduced
demand. Not normal demand punctuated by increased demand!

 

[TonyS]

On 15/10/2011 12:29 PM, Dimmer wrote:
[snipped]

Article and quotes by CEOs seem complete rubbish to me as a layman. Here's
my take: The supply from a normal solar panel is unlikely to exceed what a
home uses unless of course everything if off and the people are away. So
given that usually a user of solar panels will simply be *reducing* the call
on the mains supply, the net power drawn through the gird will be less, so
shortcomings in copper should not be a problem.

True there wll certainly be fluctuation when there is intermittent cloud
cover, but on the whole that should be 'normal demand' punctuated by reduced
demand. Not normal demand punctuated by increased demand!

On second thought I got a bit of an idea where the problem may come to
surface. I have no experience in grid technology, so correct me if I am
wrong.
First of all I must say, people do try to avoid heavy usage when the sun
is shining, cause they can sell their electricity for about double of
what they would pay. Which means they do feed into the net as much as
they can in day time.

The voltage at a transformer would always be at the higher end to cater
for the copper losses to be expected farther down the line.
If, however, there are a number of powerful solar supplies feeding in
along that transmission line, much of the current goes the other way,
and the voltage drop due to copper losses could even ADD to the grid
voltage. So instead of the usual voltage drop due to copper losses we
would have a gain. The only way to avoid this reversal would be to use
more copper or less solar.

As far as fluctuations are concerned, I think we'd need a lot more solar
power, like a double digit share, to see an impact on the grid voltage
or frequency.