Solid caps can blow up?...

[Commander Kinsey]

I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the 12V line on a graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW supply, so the tracks got damaged somewhat, it melted the solder, and ejected itself from the board. Smelt of TCP (a disinfectant), presumably from the evaporated paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Commander Kinsey wrote:

I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the 12V line on a
graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW supply, so the tracks got
damaged somewhat, it melted the solder, and ejected itself from the
board. Smelt of TCP (a disinfectant), presumably from the evaporated paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

Gee, you forgot to cross-post to alt.scorekeeping.idiots and
rec.games.ropeadope.

Inrush can kill any electrolytic capacitor. Some are more sensitive
than others.

Phil Hobbs

 

[T]

On 8/8/22 16:54, Commander Kinsey wrote:

I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the 12V line on a
graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW supply, so the tracks got
damaged somewhat, it melted the solder, and ejected itself from the
board. Smelt of TCP (a disinfectant), presumably from the evaporated paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

¡Ay, caramba!

Make in England?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 02:14:44 +0100, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the 12V line on a
graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW supply, so the tracks got
damaged somewhat, it melted the solder, and ejected itself from the
board. Smelt of TCP (a disinfectant), presumably from the evaporated paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

Gee, you forgot to cross-post to alt.scorekeeping.idiots and
rec.games.ropeadope.

What?

Inrush can kill any electrolytic capacitor. Some are more sensitive
than others.

It wasn\'t inrushing at the time. The card had been running without a restart for a week or two. It\'s been running flat out 24/7 for the last year doing astrophysics stuff on Boinc.

I\'ve never seen one of those break though, they\'re always the coloured wet electrolytics that burst at the end and leak brown fluid.

 

[Paul]

On 8/8/2022 7:54 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the 12V line on a graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW supply, so the tracks got damaged somewhat, it melted the solder, and ejected itself from the board. Smelt of TCP (a disinfectant), presumably from the evaporated paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_capacitor

\"Polymer electrolytic capacitors are also available in a hybrid construction.
The hybrid polymer aluminium electrolytic capacitors combine a solid polymer electrolyte
with a liquid electrolyte. These types are characterized by low ESR values but have
low leakage currents and are insensitive to transients,[1] however they have a
temperature-dependent service life similar to non-solid e-caps.\"

It would appear, sadly, that we cannot rule out the presence of liquids
in the stupid things.

Paul

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 02:14:44 +0100, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the 12V line on a
graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW supply, so the tracks got
damaged somewhat, it melted the solder, and ejected itself from the
board. Smelt of TCP (a disinfectant), presumably from the evaporated
paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

Gee, you forgot to cross-post to alt.scorekeeping.idiots and
rec.games.ropeadope.

What?

alt.comp.os.windows666 etc aren\'t super related to a computer repair
problem, I wouldn\'t have thought.

Inrush can kill any electrolytic capacitor.  Some are more sensitive
than others.

It wasn\'t inrushing at the time.  The card had been running without a
restart for a week or two.  It\'s been running flat out 24/7 for the last
year doing astrophysics stuff on Boinc.

I\'ve never seen one of those break though, they\'re always the coloured
wet electrolytics that burst at the end and leak brown fluid.

Looks pretty wet to me. Sticking that right next to the (apparently
inadequately-sized, and certainly inadequately-vented) heat sink for the
SMPS switches isn\'t a recipe for long capacitor life.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 02:57:52 +0100, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

On 8/8/2022 7:54 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the 12V line on a graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW supply, so the tracks got damaged somewhat, it melted the solder, and ejected itself from the board. Smelt of TCP (a disinfectant), presumably from the evaporated paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_capacitor

\"Polymer electrolytic capacitors are also available in a hybrid construction.
The hybrid polymer aluminium electrolytic capacitors combine a solid polymer electrolyte
with a liquid electrolyte. These types are characterized by low ESR values but have
low leakage currents and are insensitive to transients,[1] however they have a
temperature-dependent service life similar to non-solid e-caps.\"

It would appear, sadly, that we cannot rule out the presence of liquids
in the stupid things.

Can I tell from the markings which type it is?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 03:45:09 +0100, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 02:14:44 +0100, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the 12V line on a
graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW supply, so the tracks got
damaged somewhat, it melted the solder, and ejected itself from the
board. Smelt of TCP (a disinfectant), presumably from the evaporated
paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

Gee, you forgot to cross-post to alt.scorekeeping.idiots and
rec.games.ropeadope.

What?

alt.comp.os.windows666 etc aren\'t super related to a computer repair
problem, I wouldn\'t have thought.

There are computer people in there.

Why does it concern you anyway? Just hit reply.

Inrush can kill any electrolytic capacitor. Some are more sensitive
than others.

It wasn\'t inrushing at the time. The card had been running without a
restart for a week or two. It\'s been running flat out 24/7 for the last
year doing astrophysics stuff on Boinc.

I\'ve never seen one of those break though, they\'re always the coloured
wet electrolytics that burst at the end and leak brown fluid.

Looks pretty wet to me.

What do you mean? If you\'re talking about the mess to the right, that\'s actually a piece of copper track for the ground that\'s burnt off the paint above it.

Sticking that right next to the (apparently
inadequately-sized, and certainly inadequately-vented) heat sink for the
SMPS switches isn\'t a recipe for long capacitor life.

Well it has to go somewhere, there\'s a lot of hot stuff on graphics cards. It also probably needs to be close to the other VRM stuff. Trouble is all these caps are also under the big heatsink for the main GPU which gives off up to 250W. That heatsink covers the whole card, there is nowhere cool.

 

[John Robertson]

On 2022/08/08 6:57 p.m., Paul wrote:

On 8/8/2022 7:54 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the 12V line on
a graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW supply, so the tracks
got damaged somewhat, it melted the solder, and ejected itself from
the board. Smelt of TCP (a disinfectant), presumably from the
evaporated paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_capacitor

   \"Polymer electrolytic capacitors are also available in a hybrid
construction.
    The hybrid polymer aluminium electrolytic capacitors combine a
solid polymer electrolyte
    with a liquid electrolyte. These types are characterized by low ESR
values but have
    low leakage currents and are insensitive to transients,[1] however
they have a
    temperature-dependent service life similar to non-solid e-caps.\"

It would appear, sadly, that we cannot rule out the presence of liquids
in the stupid things.

   Paul

The caps in the photo are wet electrolytic, but dry caps can also
explode - Tantalum orange drop caps were notorious for that in 70s
equipment.

John :-#)#

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 06:38:29 +0100, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> wrote:

On 2022/08/08 6:57 p.m., Paul wrote:
On 8/8/2022 7:54 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the 12V line on
a graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW supply, so the tracks
got damaged somewhat, it melted the solder, and ejected itself from
the board. Smelt of TCP (a disinfectant), presumably from the
evaporated paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_capacitor

\"Polymer electrolytic capacitors are also available in a hybrid
construction.
The hybrid polymer aluminium electrolytic capacitors combine a
solid polymer electrolyte
with a liquid electrolyte. These types are characterized by low ESR
values but have
low leakage currents and are insensitive to transients,[1] however
they have a
temperature-dependent service life similar to non-solid e-caps.\"

It would appear, sadly, that we cannot rule out the presence of liquids
in the stupid things.

The caps in the photo are wet electrolytic, but dry caps can also
explode - Tantalum orange drop caps were notorious for that in 70s
equipment.

I thought the ones in the photo were dry. What makes you think they\'re wet? I thought the wet ones were these kind with vents:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

 

[Paul]

On 8/9/2022 2:17 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

I thought the ones in the photo were dry.  What makes you think they\'re wet?  I thought the wet ones were these kind with vents:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Based on symptoms, there have been cases of capacitors
that needed vents, not getting vents. This was someones
attempt at capacitor fraud, selling cheap electrolytics
in polymer form-factor casings. (This was going on, early
in the intro of Polymer caps as a replacement for electrolytics.)

Companies do this, if they think they can\'t be sued.

When caps can fail on gas pressure, they have a K or an X
stamped in the metal top, to promote venting at sufficiently
high pressure. The rubber bung on the bottom can
also push out, as a relief mechanism, but is not the
preferred solution. It\'s better if the vent opens.

When the pH inside an electrolytic is wrong, it eats
through the K or X area and there is a stain on top.
The failed chemistry, even works without bias. The juice
can eat through in 1-2 years of sitting in the box.

*******

If intending to run a vid card at max power forever, it
pays to do a visual analysis and decide whether you want to
fit a third party cooler kit (with better surface blow-down
characteristics). In the year 2022 however, the picking are
slim, so this is no longer an option. One of the companies
good at making those, has stopped. And COVID was only one
factor in the decision. Even if you buy a water block kit, the
board might still need air cooling for the VRM section.

Paul

 

[T]

On 8/8/22 16:54, Commander Kinsey wrote:

I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the 12V line on a
graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW supply, so the tracks got
damaged somewhat, it melted the solder, and ejected itself from the
board. Smelt of TCP (a disinfectant), presumably from the evaporated paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

By chance, was it in backwards?

 

[a a]

On Tuesday, 9 August 2022 at 04:45:20 UTC+2, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 02:14:44 +0100, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the 12V line on a
graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW supply, so the tracks got
damaged somewhat, it melted the solder, and ejected itself from the
board. Smelt of TCP (a disinfectant), presumably from the evaporated
paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

Gee, you forgot to cross-post to alt.scorekeeping.idiots and
rec.games.ropeadope.

What?
alt.comp.os.windows666 etc aren\'t super related to a computer repair
problem, I wouldn\'t have thought.

Inrush can kill any electrolytic capacitor. Some are more sensitive
than others.

It wasn\'t inrushing at the time. The card had been running without a
restart for a week or two. It\'s been running flat out 24/7 for the last
year doing astrophysics stuff on Boinc.

I\'ve never seen one of those break though, they\'re always the coloured
wet electrolytics that burst at the end and leak brown fluid.
Looks pretty wet to me. Sticking that right next to the (apparently
inadequately-sized, and certainly inadequately-vented) heat sink for the
SMPS switches isn\'t a recipe for long capacitor life.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
Phil,

thank you for
https://electrooptical.net/
and
https://electrooptical.net/static/media/uploads/Projects/Footprints/fpspie11.pdf
https://electrooptical.net/static/media/uploads/Projects/Footprints/2112no2x6.avi


I have built high-resolution thermal infrared imager based on night vision system ,
applying live multi-spectral image processing.

Not sure if there is an interest in high-resolution thermal infrared imaging in medicine.

Let me know your opinion

thank you

 

[Mayayana]

\"Paul\" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote

| > https://imgur.com/jYet0zF
|

Here\'s the real link without the imgur BS:
https://i.imgur.com/jYet0zF.jpg

I once had a case where one of those blew up.
I was putting in a CD player. Apparently there was
a short somewhere inside the player. I smelled electrical
fire, but before I could do anything it blew up, taking
all the components f the computer with it. Everything
got fried.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 05:45:17 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 03:45:09 +0100, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 02:14:44 +0100, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the 12V line on a
graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW supply, so the tracks got
damaged somewhat, it melted the solder, and ejected itself from the
board. Smelt of TCP (a disinfectant), presumably from the evaporated
paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

Gee, you forgot to cross-post to alt.scorekeeping.idiots and
rec.games.ropeadope.

What?

alt.comp.os.windows666 etc aren\'t super related to a computer repair
problem, I wouldn\'t have thought.

There are computer people in there.

Why does it concern you anyway? Just hit reply.

Inrush can kill any electrolytic capacitor. Some are more sensitive
than others.

It wasn\'t inrushing at the time. The card had been running without a
restart for a week or two. It\'s been running flat out 24/7 for the last
year doing astrophysics stuff on Boinc.

I\'ve never seen one of those break though, they\'re always the coloured
wet electrolytics that burst at the end and leak brown fluid.

Looks pretty wet to me.

What do you mean? If you\'re talking about the mess to the right, that\'s actually a piece of copper track for the ground that\'s burnt off the paint above it.

Sticking that right next to the (apparently
inadequately-sized, and certainly inadequately-vented) heat sink for the
SMPS switches isn\'t a recipe for long capacitor life.

Well it has to go somewhere, there\'s a lot of hot stuff on graphics cards. It also probably needs to be close to the other VRM stuff. Trouble is all these caps are also under the big heatsink for the main GPU which gives off up to 250W. That heatsink covers the whole card, there is nowhere cool.

Is this a gaming machine? Overclocked, overstressed, cheap, and
fundamentally useless?

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc trk

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
\"Bunter\", he said, \"I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason\"

 

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 9/8/2022 7:54 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:

I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the 12V line on a graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW supply, so the tracks got damaged somewhat, it melted the solder, and ejected itself from the board. Smelt of TCP (a disinfectant), presumably from the evaporated paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

Should have posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt?

 

[Phil Hobbs]

a a wrote:

On Tuesday, 9 August 2022 at 04:45:20 UTC+2, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 02:14:44 +0100, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the
12V line on a graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW
supply, so the tracks got damaged somewhat, it melted the
solder, and ejected itself from the board. Smelt of TCP (a
disinfectant), presumably from the evaporated paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

Gee, you forgot to cross-post to alt.scorekeeping.idiots and
rec.games.ropeadope.

What?
alt.comp.os.windows666 etc aren\'t super related to a computer
repair problem, I wouldn\'t have thought.

Inrush can kill any electrolytic capacitor. Some are more
sensitive than others.

It wasn\'t inrushing at the time. The card had been running
without a restart for a week or two. It\'s been running flat out
24/7 for the last year doing astrophysics stuff on Boinc.

I\'ve never seen one of those break though, they\'re always the
coloured wet electrolytics that burst at the end and leak brown
fluid.
Looks pretty wet to me. Sticking that right next to the
(apparently inadequately-sized, and certainly inadequately-vented)
heat sink for the SMPS switches isn\'t a recipe for long capacitor
life.


Phil,

thank you for https://electrooptical.net/ and

https://electrooptical.net/static/media/uploads/Projects/Footprints/fpspie11.pdf

https://electrooptical.net/static/media/uploads/Projects/Footprints/2112no2x6.avi

Yeah, that was a great project--one of my favorite things is to do
something novel and useful with practically zero apparatus.

It was also my first actual embedded system--if you look at the war
story paper at
<https://electrooptical.net/static/oldsite/www/footprints/fpwaropn.pdf>,
you\'ll see why that was.

I have built high-resolution thermal infrared imager based on night
vision system , applying live multi-spectral image processing.

Not sure if there is an interest in high-resolution thermal infrared
imaging in medicine.

Let me know your opinion

thank you

Not that I know of, sorry.

I had considerable interest from ARPA-E back in my early consulting days
(2009ish) for making cheap handheld thermal imagers to look for heat
leaks in buildings, but back then they didn\'t have any discretionary
money the way DARPA has.

Back then the Measurement Specialties Inc. engineer I worked with (Mitch
Thompson, may his tribe increase) had risen to be CTO of Tyco
Electronics, but even together we couldn\'t get MSI to build the films
for them--they were only interested in motion detectors.

So the Footprints technology has sat there from that day to this,
unfortunately.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Marco Moock]

Am Dienstag, 09. August 2022, um 00:54:19 Uhr schrieb Commander Kinsey:

> I didn\'t know solid caps could break.

Of course they can. They can also pop like normal caps.
In 2015 I tried putting water on a broken laptop motherboard just to
try out what happens - and one solid cap popped and flew through the
room.

 

[rbowman]

On 08/09/2022 04:04 AM, T wrote:

On 8/8/22 16:54, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the 12V line on
a graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW supply, so the tracks
got damaged somewhat, it melted the solder, and ejected itself from
the board. Smelt of TCP (a disinfectant), presumably from the
evaporated paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

By chance, was it in backwards?

Those tend to be infantile failures.

 

[Joerg]

On 8/8/22 4:54 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

I didn\'t know solid caps could break. This one shorted the 12V line on a
graphics card, unfortunately I have a 2.5kW supply, so the tracks got
damaged somewhat, it melted the solder, and ejected itself from the
board. Smelt of TCP (a disinfectant), presumably from the evaporated paint?

https://imgur.com/jYet0zF

Regardless of how solid or less solid electrolytics are, they can and do
blow. Sometimes in a spectacular manner. As a kid I had a big one almost
the size of a coke can lift off and whizz by my right eye at less than
2\" distance. It hit the ceiling and took some plaster out of it, fell
back onto the carpet and smoldered a nasty burn into that.

If the black ribbed thing is a heat sink and gets quite hot then the
placement of these caps so close to the heat sink was not a smart move
on the part of the design engineer for this board.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/