Soldering technique question

[Gerard]

(I apologise in advance - this isn't quite electronics but Google
hasn't helped and I can't find a more relevant group to ask.)

I need to solder some tagged NiCad cells together to make
a battery (replacing a now-deceased battery in, er, an electronic
device*).

I can usually do reasonable soldering - don't cook the components,
no frozen joints etc, but the tags on the cells seem to be made of
special solder-resistant metal and I'm having trouble even getting
started. I've tried abrading the surface of the tag with some fine
sandpaper and it hasn't really helped.

I suspect the manufacturers use some form of spot-welding rather
than soldering with these things.

Are there any tricks to this?

Gerard

* actually an old electric screwdriver. I was trying to make the
post relevant to an electronics group!

 

[loedown]

Tagged NiCads are a pain to start, but once you get enough heat into the
tag, they usually solder ok. The only thing I would recommend is that you
try to solder as far away from the actual battery contact point with the tag
as possible, to avoid possible damage to the cells

Paul

 

[Harold Ryan]

Apply rosin flux paste to the hot surface just before you add the solder.
The paste can be bought at any hardware store. Also, use 60/40 tin lead
solder. The new lead free solder has a higher melting temperature.
Harold




"Gerard" <lfismdlfk4e@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zEUSd.172015$K7.99052@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

(I apologise in advance - this isn't quite electronics but Google
hasn't helped and I can't find a more relevant group to ask.)

I need to solder some tagged NiCad cells together to make
a battery (replacing a now-deceased battery in, er, an electronic
device*).

I can usually do reasonable soldering - don't cook the components,
no frozen joints etc, but the tags on the cells seem to be made of
special solder-resistant metal and I'm having trouble even getting
started. I've tried abrading the surface of the tag with some fine
sandpaper and it hasn't really helped.

I suspect the manufacturers use some form of spot-welding rather
than soldering with these things.

Are there any tricks to this?

Gerard

* actually an old electric screwdriver. I was trying to make the
post relevant to an electronics group!

 

[Roy]

"Gerard" <lfismdlfk4e@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zEUSd.172015$K7.99052@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

(I apologise in advance - this isn't quite electronics but Google
hasn't helped and I can't find a more relevant group to ask.)

I need to solder some tagged NiCad cells together to make
a battery (replacing a now-deceased battery in, er, an electronic
device*).

I can usually do reasonable soldering - don't cook the components,
no frozen joints etc, but the tags on the cells seem to be made of
special solder-resistant metal and I'm having trouble even getting
started. I've tried abrading the surface of the tag with some fine
sandpaper and it hasn't really helped.

I suspect the manufacturers use some form of spot-welding rather
than soldering with these things.

Are there any tricks to this?

Gerard

* actually an old electric screwdriver. I was trying to make the
post relevant to an electronics group!

Hi,

The tags are usually made of nickel or nickel plated metal, and this is difficult to
solder with fluxes intended for copper. You need a chloride based acid flux that is
usually used to solder galvanised iron. Be careful to wash the excess acid off after
soldering (perhaps using sodium bicarbonate as a neutraliser, but don't even leave any
residue of this as it will be conductive ). Avoid heating the ends of the nicad
cells - they do not like heat!
If you need to concoct the flux from chemicals I can supply a recomended
formula, just ask!
Cheers Roy

To reply please remove the two from my e-mail address.

 

[mrnobby]

"Gerard" <lfismdlfk4e@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zEUSd.172015$K7.99052@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

(I apologise in advance - this isn't quite electronics but Google
hasn't helped and I can't find a more relevant group to ask.)

I need to solder some tagged NiCad cells together to make
a battery (replacing a now-deceased battery in, er, an electronic
device*).

I can usually do reasonable soldering - don't cook the components,
no frozen joints etc, but the tags on the cells seem to be made of
special solder-resistant metal and I'm having trouble even getting
started. I've tried abrading the surface of the tag with some fine
sandpaper and it hasn't really helped.

I suspect the manufacturers use some form of spot-welding rather
than soldering with these things.

Are there any tricks to this?

Gerard

* actually an old electric screwdriver. I was trying to make the
post relevant to an electronics group!

I just did this a fortnight ago with 10 Nicads for a Laptop battery - my

solution? I filed the tags so that the copper started to show beneath
the tin (just a couple of strokes with the file on each tag achieved
this), then soldered on to this scuffed up area. Needed a bit more heat
than usual but then this is not a .5 mm wire we are talking about here.
Needless to say I now have a Laptop that runs on these batteries for
over two hours again.

 

[Ted Swirsky]

Have you tried soldering flux? I find a little bit from a small tube I
purchased years ago makes a huge difference in how easy it is to solder
and the quality of the joint.

Ted

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:34:04 +0100, mrnobby <no@spam.please> wrote:

"Gerard" <lfismdlfk4e@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zEUSd.172015$K7.99052@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
(I apologise in advance - this isn't quite electronics but Google
hasn't helped and I can't find a more relevant group to ask.)

I need to solder some tagged NiCad cells together to make
a battery (replacing a now-deceased battery in, er, an electronic
device*).

I can usually do reasonable soldering - don't cook the components,
no frozen joints etc, but the tags on the cells seem to be made of
special solder-resistant metal and I'm having trouble even getting
started. I've tried abrading the surface of the tag with some fine
sandpaper and it hasn't really helped.

I suspect the manufacturers use some form of spot-welding rather
than soldering with these things.

Are there any tricks to this?

Gerard

 

[larry]

While I wouldn't consider myself an "expert", I can say with certainty
that a MAJOR cause of solder joint failure is pitting caused by dirty
joints. The board had dirt, the resistor has a film, the solder
itself is dirty. All this prevents a good bond. The flux cleans the
joint, and creates the first step of a "heat bridge".

Which, happens to be another failure, cold solder joints, and "burned"
joints.

Larry


On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:08:15 GMT, "Ted Swirsky" <Teds-h1@verizon.net>
wrote:

Have you tried soldering flux? I find a little bit from a small tube I
purchased years ago makes a huge difference in how easy it is to solder
and the quality of the joint.

Ted

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:34:04 +0100, mrnobby <no@spam.please> wrote:


"Gerard" <lfismdlfk4e@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zEUSd.172015$K7.99052@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
(I apologise in advance - this isn't quite electronics but Google
hasn't helped and I can't find a more relevant group to ask.)

I need to solder some tagged NiCad cells together to make
a battery (replacing a now-deceased battery in, er, an electronic
device*).

I can usually do reasonable soldering - don't cook the components,
no frozen joints etc, but the tags on the cells seem to be made of
special solder-resistant metal and I'm having trouble even getting
started. I've tried abrading the surface of the tag with some fine
sandpaper and it hasn't really helped.

I suspect the manufacturers use some form of spot-welding rather
than soldering with these things.

Are there any tricks to this?

Gerard

 

[WDino]

Some batteries with tags are intended to be joined using small spade type
terminals. These usually are made of stainless steel. SO they cannot be soldered.

mrnobby wrote:

"Gerard" <lfismdlfk4e@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zEUSd.172015$K7.99052@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

(I apologise in advance - this isn't quite electronics but Google
hasn't helped and I can't find a more relevant group to ask.)

I need to solder some tagged NiCad cells together to make
a battery (replacing a now-deceased battery in, er, an electronic
device*).

I can usually do reasonable soldering - don't cook the components,
no frozen joints etc, but the tags on the cells seem to be made of
special solder-resistant metal and I'm having trouble even getting
started. I've tried abrading the surface of the tag with some fine
sandpaper and it hasn't really helped.

I suspect the manufacturers use some form of spot-welding rather
than soldering with these things.

Are there any tricks to this?

Gerard

* actually an old electric screwdriver. I was trying to make the
post relevant to an electronics group!


I just did this a fortnight ago with 10 Nicads for a Laptop battery - my
solution? I filed the tags so that the copper started to show beneath
the tin (just a couple of strokes with the file on each tag achieved
this), then soldered on to this scuffed up area. Needed a bit more heat
than usual but then this is not a .5 mm wire we are talking about here.
Needless to say I now have a Laptop that runs on these batteries for
over two hours again.

 

[Roy]

That is not true. Stainless steel can be soldered with acidic zinc based flux, this is
necessary to break down the Cr2 O3 oxide layer that is responsible for the metals
resistance to corrosion.

"WDino" <nogood@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:7nK4e.1541$5F3.1447@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Some batteries with tags are intended to be joined using small spade type
terminals. These usually are made of stainless steel. SO they cannot be soldered.

mrnobby wrote:

"Gerard" <lfismdlfk4e@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zEUSd.172015$K7.99052@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

(I apologise in advance - this isn't quite electronics but Google
hasn't helped and I can't find a more relevant group to ask.)

I need to solder some tagged NiCad cells together to make
a battery (replacing a now-deceased battery in, er, an electronic
device*).

I can usually do reasonable soldering - don't cook the components,
no frozen joints etc, but the tags on the cells seem to be made of
special solder-resistant metal and I'm having trouble even getting
started. I've tried abrading the surface of the tag with some fine
sandpaper and it hasn't really helped.

I suspect the manufacturers use some form of spot-welding rather
than soldering with these things.

Are there any tricks to this?

Gerard

* actually an old electric screwdriver. I was trying to make the
post relevant to an electronics group!


I just did this a fortnight ago with 10 Nicads for a Laptop battery - my
solution? I filed the tags so that the copper started to show beneath
the tin (just a couple of strokes with the file on each tag achieved
this), then soldered on to this scuffed up area. Needed a bit more heat
than usual but then this is not a .5 mm wire we are talking about here.
Needless to say I now have a Laptop that runs on these batteries for
over two hours again.

 

[Landon]

How about just drilling a little hole in the tab(s) then with little
tiny screws attach some kind of connector to them?

Roy wrote:

That is not true. Stainless steel can be soldered with acidic zinc based flux, this is
necessary to break down the Cr2 O3 oxide layer that is responsible for the metals
resistance to corrosion.

"WDino" <nogood@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:7nK4e.1541$5F3.1447@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Some batteries with tags are intended to be joined using small spade type
terminals. These usually are made of stainless steel. SO they cannot be soldered.

mrnobby wrote:


"Gerard" <lfismdlfk4e@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zEUSd.172015$K7.99052@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


(I apologise in advance - this isn't quite electronics but Google
hasn't helped and I can't find a more relevant group to ask.)

I need to solder some tagged NiCad cells together to make
a battery (replacing a now-deceased battery in, er, an electronic
device*).

I can usually do reasonable soldering - don't cook the components,
no frozen joints etc, but the tags on the cells seem to be made of
special solder-resistant metal and I'm having trouble even getting
started. I've tried abrading the surface of the tag with some fine
sandpaper and it hasn't really helped.

I suspect the manufacturers use some form of spot-welding rather
than soldering with these things.

Are there any tricks to this?

Gerard

* actually an old electric screwdriver. I was trying to make the
post relevant to an electronics group!


I just did this a fortnight ago with 10 Nicads for a Laptop battery - my
solution? I filed the tags so that the copper started to show beneath
the tin (just a couple of strokes with the file on each tag achieved
this), then soldered on to this scuffed up area. Needed a bit more heat
than usual but then this is not a .5 mm wire we are talking about here.
Needless to say I now have a Laptop that runs on these batteries for
over two hours again.

 

[Mark Bullivant]

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 13:16:37 -0700, Landon <transwarp2000@comcast.net>
wrote:

How about just drilling a little hole in the tab(s) then with little
tiny screws attach some kind of connector to them?

That's too easy. We're looking for a solution that's a little more
challenging.

Thanks anyway.

Mark.

Roy wrote:
That is not true. Stainless steel can be soldered with acidic zinc based flux, this is
necessary to break down the Cr2 O3 oxide layer that is responsible for the metals
resistance to corrosion.

"WDino" <nogood@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:7nK4e.1541$5F3.1447@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Some batteries with tags are intended to be joined using small spade type
terminals. These usually are made of stainless steel. SO they cannot be soldered.

mrnobby wrote:


"Gerard" <lfismdlfk4e@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zEUSd.172015$K7.99052@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


(I apologise in advance - this isn't quite electronics but Google
hasn't helped and I can't find a more relevant group to ask.)

I need to solder some tagged NiCad cells together to make
a battery (replacing a now-deceased battery in, er, an electronic
device*).

I can usually do reasonable soldering - don't cook the components,
no frozen joints etc, but the tags on the cells seem to be made of
special solder-resistant metal and I'm having trouble even getting
started. I've tried abrading the surface of the tag with some fine
sandpaper and it hasn't really helped.

I suspect the manufacturers use some form of spot-welding rather
than soldering with these things.

Are there any tricks to this?

Gerard

* actually an old electric screwdriver. I was trying to make the
post relevant to an electronics group!


I just did this a fortnight ago with 10 Nicads for a Laptop battery - my
solution? I filed the tags so that the copper started to show beneath
the tin (just a couple of strokes with the file on each tag achieved
this), then soldered on to this scuffed up area. Needed a bit more heat
than usual but then this is not a .5 mm wire we are talking about here.
Needless to say I now have a Laptop that runs on these batteries for
over two hours again.

 

[Rich Grise]

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 08:53:06 +0000, Mark Bullivant wrote:

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 13:16:37 -0700, Landon <transwarp2000@comcast.net
top-posted:

How about just drilling a little hole in the tab(s) then with little
tiny screws attach some kind of connector to them?

That's too easy. We're looking for a solution that's a little more
challenging.

Then build a spot-welder.

Cheers!
Rich

Thanks anyway.

Mark.

Roy wrote:
That is not true. Stainless steel can be soldered with acidic zinc based flux, this is
necessary to break down the Cr2 O3 oxide layer that is responsible for the metals
resistance to corrosion.

"WDino" <nogood@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:7nK4e.1541$5F3.1447@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Some batteries with tags are intended to be joined using small spade type
terminals. These usually are made of stainless steel. SO they cannot be soldered.

mrnobby wrote:


"Gerard" <lfismdlfk4e@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zEUSd.172015$K7.99052@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


(I apologise in advance - this isn't quite electronics but Google
hasn't helped and I can't find a more relevant group to ask.)

I need to solder some tagged NiCad cells together to make
a battery (replacing a now-deceased battery in, er, an electronic
device*).

I can usually do reasonable soldering - don't cook the components,
no frozen joints etc, but the tags on the cells seem to be made of
special solder-resistant metal and I'm having trouble even getting
started. I've tried abrading the surface of the tag with some fine
sandpaper and it hasn't really helped.

I suspect the manufacturers use some form of spot-welding rather
than soldering with these things.

Are there any tricks to this?

Gerard

* actually an old electric screwdriver. I was trying to make the
post relevant to an electronics group!


I just did this a fortnight ago with 10 Nicads for a Laptop battery - my
solution? I filed the tags so that the copper started to show beneath
the tin (just a couple of strokes with the file on each tag achieved
this), then soldered on to this scuffed up area. Needed a bit more heat
than usual but then this is not a .5 mm wire we are talking about here.
Needless to say I now have a Laptop that runs on these batteries for
over two hours again.

 

[Alexander]

I had a similar problem sometime ago at work.

The solution was simple, first clean the contacts with a glass(fiber) penn,
after that use the right flux.
I used an Alfa flux (the exact number I don't know).

So I do agree with roy, just the problem of getting the right flux remains.

Good luck
"Rich Grise" <richgrise@example.net> schreef in bericht
newsan.2005.06.03.15.54.03.25980@example.net...

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 08:53:06 +0000, Mark Bullivant wrote:

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 13:16:37 -0700, Landon <transwarp2000@comcast.net
top-posted:

How about just drilling a little hole in the tab(s) then with little
tiny screws attach some kind of connector to them?

That's too easy. We're looking for a solution that's a little more
challenging.

Then build a spot-welder.

Cheers!
Rich

Thanks anyway.

Mark.

Roy wrote:
That is not true. Stainless steel can be soldered with acidic zinc
based flux, this is
necessary to break down the Cr2 O3 oxide layer that is responsible for
the metals
resistance to corrosion.

"WDino" <nogood@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:7nK4e.1541$5F3.1447@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Some batteries with tags are intended to be joined using small spade
type
terminals. These usually are made of stainless steel. SO they cannot be
soldered.

mrnobby wrote:


"Gerard" <lfismdlfk4e@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zEUSd.172015$K7.99052@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


(I apologise in advance - this isn't quite electronics but Google
hasn't helped and I can't find a more relevant group to ask.)

I need to solder some tagged NiCad cells together to make
a battery (replacing a now-deceased battery in, er, an electronic
device*).

I can usually do reasonable soldering - don't cook the components,
no frozen joints etc, but the tags on the cells seem to be made of
special solder-resistant metal and I'm having trouble even getting
started. I've tried abrading the surface of the tag with some fine
sandpaper and it hasn't really helped.

I suspect the manufacturers use some form of spot-welding rather
than soldering with these things.

Are there any tricks to this?

Gerard

* actually an old electric screwdriver. I was trying to make the
post relevant to an electronics group!


I just did this a fortnight ago with 10 Nicads for a Laptop battery -
my
solution? I filed the tags so that the copper started to show beneath
the tin (just a couple of strokes with the file on each tag achieved
this), then soldered on to this scuffed up area. Needed a bit more
heat
than usual but then this is not a .5 mm wire we are talking about
here.
Needless to say I now have a Laptop that runs on these batteries for
over two hours again.