soldering aluminum and iron

D

david eather

Guest
Just hoping someone has some experience with this. Is there a way to
solder (hard or soft) aluminum to iron? Or is there a type of welding
possible? - please note that although I know explosive welding will
work, it does tend to cause a bit of tension with the neighbors and
local police. So that one is out.

I have a vague recollection it is not possible, but that may be it is
not possible with a particular type of alloy stick for soldering I had.
If I had the gear I would just go out and test it - but alas I would
have to buy it all, either as a small scale test set up which is
afterwards useless or buy the gear big enough for the project which is
an expensive risk if it cant be done and the gear is rather useless to
me after the job is done. The idea is to weld a 27 x 0.75 inch of spring
steel 9260 into a u shaped channel of aviation grade aluminum to produce
a light weight katana blade that will take a durable edge.

I know this is not the 'best' group to ask but the people here have a
wide experience in just about everything so TIA
David Eather
 
On Wed, 08 May 2019 09:28:37 +1000, david eather wrote:

I know this is not the 'best' group to ask but the people here have a
wide experience in just about everything so TIA David Eather
Click to expand...

Try uk.d-i-y it's far more appropriate and you *will* get many useful
answers there (although not for another 6 or 7 hours or so!)



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On 8/05/2019 7:28 am, david eather wrote:
Just hoping someone has some experience with this. Is there a way to
solder (hard or soft) aluminum to iron? Or is there a type of welding
possible?  - please note that although I know explosive welding will
work, it does tend to cause a bit of tension with the neighbors and
local police. So that one is out.

I have a vague recollection it is not possible, but that may be it is
not possible with a particular type of alloy stick for soldering I had.
If I had the gear I would just go out and test it - but alas I would
have to buy it all, either as a small scale test set up which is
afterwards useless or buy the gear big enough for the project which is
an expensive risk if it cant be done and the gear is rather useless to
me after the job is done. The idea is to weld a 27 x 0.75 inch of spring
steel 9260 into a u shaped channel of aviation grade aluminum to produce
a light weight katana blade that will take a durable edge.

I know this is not the 'best' group to ask but the people here have a
wide experience in just about everything so TIA
David Eather
Click to expand...

You would probably get good results with a strong epoxy to cement the
blade in and at the same time be able to fill the channel and finish it
off better. I have cemented power hacksaw blades into aluminium tube to
make knives, perhaps you might consider that method as neater than the
channel?
 
First step is tinning the aluminum.

Any solder will do, silver-bearing lead-free is probably the better choice
for strength. Zinc alloys probably melt too high for the steel to retain
temper, but tin-zinc eutectic would be fine.

Flux is the hard part. Aluminum needs something very reactive, like
ammonium bifluoride. Don't taste it, or breathe the fumes, or touch it,
or...

Epoxy is probably the better bet, but you either need heroic surface prep
(wet sanding the epoxy into the aluminum surface) or industrial grade
formulations that can bond aluminum well enough (which are apparently pretty
toxic, too).

Tim

--
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design
Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/

"david eather" <eatDELETEher@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:GwoAE.336061$v12.75807@fx29.am4...
Just hoping someone has some experience with this. Is there a way to
solder (hard or soft) aluminum to iron? Or is there a type of welding
possible? - please note that although I know explosive welding will work,
it does tend to cause a bit of tension with the neighbors and local
police. So that one is out.

I have a vague recollection it is not possible, but that may be it is not
possible with a particular type of alloy stick for soldering I had. If I
had the gear I would just go out and test it - but alas I would have to
buy it all, either as a small scale test set up which is afterwards
useless or buy the gear big enough for the project which is an expensive
risk if it cant be done and the gear is rather useless to me after the job
is done. The idea is to weld a 27 x 0.75 inch of spring steel 9260 into a
u shaped channel of aviation grade aluminum to produce a light weight
katana blade that will take a durable edge.

I know this is not the 'best' group to ask but the people here have a wide
experience in just about everything so TIA
David Eather
Click to expand...
 
On 2019-05-07, david eather <eatDELETEher@tpg.com.au> wrote:
Just hoping someone has some experience with this. Is there a way to
solder (hard or soft) aluminum to iron?
Click to expand...

yes, there's a flux for soldering aluminium and for iron you can use
"Baker's fluid" (but the aluminium flux will probably work there too)

Loctite/Multicore "Alusol" is a tin-lead-silver solder wire with the
aluminium flux as core. Available from Element-14 etc.

--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.
 
On Tuesday, May 7, 2019 at 4:28:42 PM UTC-7, david eather wrote:
Just hoping someone has some experience with this. Is there a way to
solder (hard or soft) aluminum to iron?
Click to expand...

Yes, but not in one operation. You can get 'aluminum solder' (actually a zinc alloy
of some sort) that (after you abrade the aluminum) can be made to stick on aluminum
with no flux. And tin/lead solder, with acid flux (I like the NoKoRode stainless formula),
will work on steel.

After removing the acid flux, you can join the two solders together.

I've used fluxes that made the aluminum solder stick without the race from
wire-brushing to heating (melt the solder within seconds of the
'cleaning' phase, or it doesn't stick), but they were covered with
warning labels, kinda scary.
 
On May 8, 2019, whit3rd wrote
(in article<79cd98b4-b8c9-47fe-aa2f-e619ab32d1f2@googlegroups.com>):

On Tuesday, May 7, 2019 at 4:28:42 PM UTC-7, david eather wrote:
Just hoping someone has some experience with this. Is there a way to
solder (hard or soft) aluminum to iron?

Yes, but not in one operation. You can get 'aluminum solder' (actually a zinc
alloy
of some sort) that (after you abrade the aluminum) can be made to stick on
aluminum
with no flux. And tin/lead solder, with acid flux (I like the NoKoRode
stainless formula),
will work on steel.

After removing the acid flux, you can join the two solders together.

I've used fluxes that made the aluminum solder stick without the race from
wire-brushing to heating (melt the solder within seconds of the
'cleaning' phase, or it doesn't stick), but they were covered with
warning labels, kinda scary.
Click to expand...

The classic dodge is to use a fiberglass or stainless steel brush to abrade
the hot aluminum surface under a pool of molten solder. The solder excludes
the atmosphere, allowing fluxes of ordinary aggression to work.

Joe Gwinn
 
On Tuesday, May 7, 2019 at 7:28:42 PM UTC-4, david eather wrote:
Just hoping someone has some experience with this. Is there a way to
solder (hard or soft) aluminum to iron? Or is there a type of welding
possible? - please note that although I know explosive welding will
work, it does tend to cause a bit of tension with the neighbors and
local police. So that one is out.

I have a vague recollection it is not possible, but that may be it is
not possible with a particular type of alloy stick for soldering I had.
If I had the gear I would just go out and test it - but alas I would
have to buy it all, either as a small scale test set up which is
afterwards useless or buy the gear big enough for the project which is
an expensive risk if it cant be done and the gear is rather useless to
me after the job is done. The idea is to weld a 27 x 0.75 inch of spring
steel 9260 into a u shaped channel of aviation grade aluminum to produce
a light weight katana blade that will take a durable edge.

I know this is not the 'best' group to ask but the people here have a
wide experience in just about everything so TIA
David Eather
Click to expand...

I've never tried (soft) soldering iron, but Aluminum and stainless steel
just need the right flux. (Alco aluminum flux and Stay brite for SS.)
Soft solder is kinda weak though... may not be good for a blade.

George H.
 
Eutectic rod and MAP gas are your best bet, but that is too hot for silicon.
 
On 8/05/2019 9:28 am, david eather wrote:
Just hoping someone has some experience with this. Is there a way to
solder (hard or soft) aluminum to iron? Or is there a type of welding
possible?  - please note that although I know explosive welding will
work, it does tend to cause a bit of tension with the neighbors and
local police. So that one is out.

I have a vague recollection it is not possible, but that may be it is
not possible with a particular type of alloy stick for soldering I had.
If I had the gear I would just go out and test it - but alas I would
have to buy it all, either as a small scale test set up which is
afterwards useless or buy the gear big enough for the project which is
an expensive risk if it cant be done and the gear is rather useless to
me after the job is done. The idea is to weld a 27 x 0.75 inch of spring
steel 9260 into a u shaped channel of aviation grade aluminum to produce
a light weight katana blade that will take a durable edge.

I know this is not the 'best' group to ask but the people here have a
wide experience in just about everything so TIA
David Eather
Click to expand...

Many thanks for the answers and suggestions - lots to think about. If
you don't hear from me again you know I tried one of the toxic chemicals
without success!
 
On 5/10/19 12:36 AM, david eather wrote:
On 8/05/2019 9:28 am, david eather wrote:
Just hoping someone has some experience with this. Is there a way to
solder (hard or soft) aluminum to iron? Or is there a type of welding
possible?  - please note that although I know explosive welding will
work, it does tend to cause a bit of tension with the neighbors and
local police. So that one is out.

I have a vague recollection it is not possible, but that may be it is
not possible with a particular type of alloy stick for soldering I
had. If I had the gear I would just go out and test it - but alas I
would have to buy it all, either as a small scale test set up which is
afterwards useless or buy the gear big enough for the project which is
an expensive risk if it cant be done and the gear is rather useless to
me after the job is done. The idea is to weld a 27 x 0.75 inch of
spring steel 9260 into a u shaped channel of aviation grade aluminum
to produce a light weight katana blade that will take a durable edge.

I know this is not the 'best' group to ask but the people here have a
wide experience in just about everything so TIA
David Eather

Many thanks for the answers and suggestions - lots to think about. If
you don't hear from me again you know I tried one of the toxic chemicals
without success!
Click to expand...

Back in WW2 the RAF repaired airplanes by soldering aluminum with
plumbing solder, under oil. No idea what they used for flux.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
On Sunday, 12 May 2019 18:57:11 UTC+1, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Back in WW2 the RAF repaired airplanes by soldering aluminum with
plumbing solder, under oil. No idea what they used for flux.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
Click to expand...

An airplane with structural soft solder :/


NT
 
On 13/05/2019 11:13 am, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, 12 May 2019 18:57:11 UTC+1, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Back in WW2 the RAF repaired airplanes by soldering aluminum with
plumbing solder, under oil. No idea what they used for flux.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
An airplane with structural soft solder :/


NT
Click to expand...

Not a problem. Some surface defects and cracks on supersonic aircraft
(F1-11, max speed mach 2.5 for example) are patched with a type of
'sticky tape' called 'instant air-frame'.
 
fredag den 17. maj 2019 kl. 11.24.46 UTC+2 skrev david eather:
On 13/05/2019 11:13 am, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, 12 May 2019 18:57:11 UTC+1, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Back in WW2 the RAF repaired airplanes by soldering aluminum with
plumbing solder, under oil. No idea what they used for flux.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
An airplane with structural soft solder :/


NT


Not a problem. Some surface defects and cracks on supersonic aircraft
(F1-11, max speed mach 2.5 for example) are patched with a type of
'sticky tape' called 'instant air-frame'.
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_tape
 
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