Solder Lug Design (?) - Resources & Suggestions

  • Thread starter Sean-Michael Adams
  • Start date
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Sean-Michael Adams

Guest
Hi folks.

I'm trying to find out more about the "proper" design of solder lugs
and wonder if there are any resources available on-line or if anyone
has any suggestions.

I'm at the very basic level of "what size hole is ideal? (based on
wire gage I'm sure)", "do you want the hole near an edge to keep the
thermal mass low?", "what can be designed into the lug to make it
'manufacturing friendly'?", etc.

I'm from the mech-design side of things and am not too savvy on the
nuances of electrical terminations (particularly the design of solder
lugs), so my goal is to get a little education and hopefully design a
termination that an electronics tech would be pleased with.

Thanks for any advice,

SMA
 
On 3 Apr 2004 04:04:03 -0800, SAdams@frontiernet.net (Sean-Michael
Adams) wrote:

Hi folks.

I'm trying to find out more about the "proper" design of solder lugs
and wonder if there are any resources available on-line or if anyone
has any suggestions.

I'm at the very basic level of "what size hole is ideal? (based on
wire gage I'm sure)", "do you want the hole near an edge to keep the
thermal mass low?", "what can be designed into the lug to make it
'manufacturing friendly'?", etc.

I'm from the mech-design side of things and am not too savvy on the
nuances of electrical terminations (particularly the design of solder
lugs), so my goal is to get a little education and hopefully design a
termination that an electronics tech would be pleased with.
Click to expand...
---
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=solder+lugs

--
John Fields
 
On 3 Apr 2004 04:04:03 -0800, SAdams@frontiernet.net (Sean-Michael
Adams) wrote:

Hi folks.

I'm trying to find out more about the "proper" design of solder lugs
and wonder if there are any resources available on-line or if anyone
has any suggestions.

I'm at the very basic level of "what size hole is ideal? (based on
wire gage I'm sure)", "do you want the hole near an edge to keep the
thermal mass low?", "what can be designed into the lug to make it
'manufacturing friendly'?", etc.

I'm from the mech-design side of things and am not too savvy on the
nuances of electrical terminations (particularly the design of solder
lugs), so my goal is to get a little education and hopefully design a
termination that an electronics tech would be pleased with.

Thanks for any advice,

SMA
Click to expand...
This is a subject that occupies the average electronics designer for,
say, three minutes in his lifetime.

John
 
On 3 Apr 2004 04:04:03 -0800, the renowned SAdams@frontiernet.net
(Sean-Michael Adams) wrote:

Hi folks.

I'm trying to find out more about the "proper" design of solder lugs
and wonder if there are any resources available on-line or if anyone
has any suggestions.

I'm at the very basic level of "what size hole is ideal? (based on
wire gage I'm sure)", "do you want the hole near an edge to keep the
thermal mass low?", "what can be designed into the lug to make it
'manufacturing friendly'?", etc.

I'm from the mech-design side of things and am not too savvy on the
nuances of electrical terminations (particularly the design of solder
lugs), so my goal is to get a little education and hopefully design a
termination that an electronics tech would be pleased with.

Thanks for any advice,

SMA
Click to expand...
Suggest you just copy existing lug materials (including temper) and
dimensions. This is a really mature area and I don't see much reason
to re-invent the wheel, though there may be some slight changes in
order to accomodate Pb-free solders and that sort of thing.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
X-No-Archive: yes
"John Larkin" wrote
: (Sean-Michael Adams) wrote:
: >Hi folks.
: >I'm trying to find out more about the "proper" design of solder
lugs
: >and wonder if there are any resources available on-line or if
anyone
: >has any suggestions.
: >I'm at the very basic level of "what size hole is ideal? (based
on
: >wire gage I'm sure)", "do you want the hole near an edge to
keep the
: >thermal mass low?", "what can be designed into the lug to make
it
: >'manufacturing friendly'?", etc.
: >
: >I'm from the mech-design side of things and am not too savvy on
the
: >nuances of electrical terminations (particularly the design of
solder
: >lugs), so my goal is to get a little education and hopefully
design a
: >termination that an electronics tech would be pleased with.
: >
: >Thanks for any advice,
: >SMA
:
: This is a subject that occupies the average electronics designer
for,
: say, three minutes in his lifetime.

That is why your just a designer and not an Engineer.
Proper connections are extremely important and sometimes critical.

SMA; search on.... The information is out there. But not in a
single place.
General info is often useless. The specific application
establishes the requirements for the connections. A thermocouple
has to have all connections at the same temperature, a RC race car
needs a very low IR drop (A multi-point connection) and a Solar
array also has a special need fro a low IR drop. Plateing and
fastening are also critical parameters.
 
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:09:07 -0800, the renowned John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:


But if everything is at the same temperature, there won't be any
signal. But then, there wouldn't be anything to measure, so I guess
it's OK.
Click to expand...
John:-

I guess things really ought to be ice-o-thermal near that cold
junction thingie.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
X-No-Archive: yes
"John Larkin" wrote
: "Roger Gt" wrote:
: >"John Larkin" wrote
: >: (Sean-Michael Adams) wrote:
: >: >Hi folks.
: >: >I'm trying to find out more about the "proper" design
: >: > of solder lugs and wonder if there are any resources
: >: > available on-line or if anyone has any suggestions.
: >: >I'm at the very basic level of "what size hole is ideal?
: >: >(based on wire gage I'm sure)", "do you want the hole
: >: >near an edge to keep the thermal mass low?",
: >: >"what can be designed into the lug to make it
: >: >'manufacturing friendly'?", etc.
: >: >
: >: > I'm from the mech-design side of things and am
: >: > not too savvy on the nuances of electrical
: >: > terminations (particularly the design of solder
: >: > lugs), so my goal is to get a little education
: >: > and hopefully design a termination that an
: >: > electronics tech would be pleased with.
: >: >Thanks for any advice, SMA
: >:
: >: This is a subject that occupies the average electronics
designer
: >: for, say, three minutes in his lifetime.

: >That is why your just a designer and not an Engineer.
: Well, every year when Tulane hits me up for money, they think
I'm an
: Engineer.

An example of two fools, then for asking, you for sending them
money.
So if I ask you to send me -- Say $10,000, would you send it?
IF the answer is no, then I would recommend you not send any to
Tulane.

: >Proper connections are extremely important and sometimes
critical.
: Really? I never knew that. How interesting.
Because you lack the understanding.

: >General info is often useless.
: Now *that's* profound. Tell us more.
EXAMPLE: This is a subject that occupies the average electronics
designer for,
say, three minutes in his lifetime. John

Clear now?

: > The specific application establishes requirements for
: > the connections. A thermocouple has to have all
: > connections at the same temperature,

: But if everything is at the same temperature, there won't be any
: signal. But then, there wouldn't be anything to measure, so I
guess
: it's OK.
I am sure as a designer you've never used an Isothermal terminal
block, so use google to learn about it.

: > a RC race car
: >needs a very low IR drop (A multi-point connection)

: Sorry, I don't design RC race cars. Do you?
Not normally, but I have fixed some designs for some amateur
designer who produced the RC controls for many years, you may have
heard of them "Tekin Electronics"

: > and a Solar
: >array also has a special need fro a low IR drop.
: Why? Isn't sunlight free?

Only an inexperienced designer would need to ask.
Google "PV wiring" or "PV Connectors."
 
X-No-Archive: yes
"Spehro Pefhany" wrote
: the idiot John Larkin wrote
:
: >But if everything is at the same temperature, there won't be
any
: >signal. But then, there wouldn't be anything to measure, so I
guess
: >it's OK.
:
: John:-
:
: I guess things really ought to be ice-o-thermal near that cold
: junction thingie.
:
: Best regards,
: Spehro Pefhany

Is John a totally stupid as the responses here indicate?
I get the impression he has no clue!

The wiring on a thermocouple as differentiated from the sensor
point where the measurement is made, must not contribute to an
error.... Can he actually not understand that!
 
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 21:20:52 GMT, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:09:07 -0800, the renowned John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:


But if everything is at the same temperature, there won't be any
signal. But then, there wouldn't be anything to measure, so I guess
it's OK.

John:-

I guess things really ought to be ice-o-thermal near that cold
junction thingie.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
Click to expand...
How about this:

Run the t/c leads directly into an opamp integrator. Use the
integrator output to drive a heater that heats the whole opamp circuit
board in an oven. Use an RTD to measure the oven temperature. No
reference junction needed!

Sort of a temperature follower.

John
 
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:33:11 GMT, "Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote:
An example of two fools, then for asking, you for sending them
money.
So if I ask you to send me -- Say $10,000, would you send it?
Click to expand...
No, but then you didn't give me a 5-year scholarship.

I send money to my high school, too: always an amount (in pennies)
that's the Nth prime, where N is prime; the checks look funny. I hold
the record for the biggest alum donation of all time, but there's an
annoying lawyer in New Orleans who keeps trying to top me.

I am sure as a designer you've never used an Isothermal terminal
block, so use google to learn about it.
Click to expand...
Done a bunch already, used for things like oil refineries and nuclear
weapons testing. Machined anodized blocks and wire labrynths and
stuff. RTD sensors and reverse lookup tables. Kinda tedious, actually.

John
 
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:35:43 GMT, the renowned "Roger Gt"
<not@here.net> wrote:

X-No-Archive: yes
"Spehro Pefhany" wrote
: the idiot John Larkin wrote
:
: >But if everything is at the same temperature, there won't be
any
: >signal. But then, there wouldn't be anything to measure, so I
guess
: >it's OK.
:
: John:-
:
: I guess things really ought to be ice-o-thermal near that cold
: junction thingie.
:
: Best regards,
: Spehro Pefhany

Is John a totally stupid as the responses here indicate?
I get the impression he has no clue!
Click to expand...
Oh, I think John is every bit as "totally stupid" as his responses, in
total, would seem to indicate. Whatever value and sign that would
take.

The wiring on a thermocouple as differentiated from the sensor
point where the measurement is made, must not contribute to an
error.... Can he actually not understand that!
Click to expand...
No, I don't think he can actually not understand that.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 15:31:35 -0800, the renowned John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:
Run the t/c leads directly into an opamp integrator. Use the
integrator output to drive a heater that heats the whole opamp circuit
board in an oven. Use an RTD to measure the oven temperature. No
reference junction needed!

Sort of a temperature follower.
John
Click to expand...
LOL. I've considered something vaguely similar that would be the
thermal analog of a bootstrapped shield.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:35:43 GMT, "Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote:

Is John a totally stupid as the responses here indicate?
I get the impression he has no clue!
Click to expand...
---
Then science must not be your first language.
---


The wiring on a thermocouple as differentiated from the sensor
point where the measurement is made, must not contribute to an
error.... Can he actually not understand that!
Click to expand...
---
If you can understand Spehro's reply I think you'll start to realize
the folly of your attack. If you can't, Oh, well... Down into the
noise you go.

--
John Fields
 
X-No-Archive: yes
"John Larkin" wrote
: "Roger Gt" wrote:

: >An example of two fools, then for asking, you for sending them
: >money.
: >So if I ask you to send me -- Say $10,000, would you send it?
: No, but then you didn't give me a 5-year scholarship.

Neither did they, you got the many for a socialist program. Out of
taxes paid by those that did not benefit!
<snip>

: >I am sure as a designer you've never used an Isothermal
terminal
: >block, so use google to learn about it.
:
: Done a bunch already, used for things like oil refineries and
nuclear
: weapons testing. Machined anodized blocks and wire labrynths and
: stuff. RTD sensors and reverse lookup tables. Kinda tedious,
actually.

Oh yes. Then why do you answer people like a dork with no brain?

Perhaps civility was not taught in school?

Not an attack, an attempt to show you the error of your ways! An
intervention!

Spelling:
labrynths = labyrinths
Kinda = Kind of
 
X-No-Archive: yes
"John Larkin" wrote
: Spehro Pefhany wrote:
: > John Larkin wrote:
: >
: >>But if everything is at the same temperature, there won't be
any
: >>signal. But then, there wouldn't be anything to measure, so I
guess
: >>it's OK. John:-
: >I guess things really ought to be ice-o-thermal near that cold
: >junction thingie. Spehro Pefhany

: How about this:
: Run the t/c leads directly into an opamp integrator. Use the
: integrator output to drive a heater that heats the whole opamp
circuit
: board in an oven. Use an RTD to measure the oven temperature. No
: reference junction needed!
: Sort of a temperature follower. John

Like run the Platinum leads all 40 feet to the control council?
What about the probe connectors?
The machine I worked on had 40 Thermocouples. One converter board
in a separate enclosure since the circuitry would be compromised
in an up to 125C furnace cabinet. The thermocouples measured
internal furnace tube temperatures in nine zones at 400 to 850
degrees C. Not every one works on desktop gear....
 
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:36:12 GMT, "Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote:

X-No-Archive: yes
"John Larkin" wrote
: "Roger Gt" wrote:

: >An example of two fools, then for asking, you for sending them
: >money.
: >So if I ask you to send me -- Say $10,000, would you send it?
: No, but then you didn't give me a 5-year scholarship.

Neither did they, you got the many for a socialist program. Out of
taxes paid by those that did not benefit!
snip

: >I am sure as a designer you've never used an Isothermal
terminal
: >block, so use google to learn about it.
:
: Done a bunch already, used for things like oil refineries and
nuclear
: weapons testing. Machined anodized blocks and wire labrynths and
: stuff. RTD sensors and reverse lookup tables. Kinda tedious,
actually.

Oh yes. Then why do you answer people like a dork with no brain?

Perhaps civility was not taught in school?

Not an attack, an attempt to show you the error of your ways! An
intervention!

Spelling:
labrynths = labyrinths
Kinda = Kind of
Click to expand...
Oh relax, it's just a newsgroup.

John
 
"what can be designed into the lug to make it
'manufacturing friendly'?", etc.
Click to expand...
a) Nix the lug.
b) Nix the solder joint.
c) last but not least, nix the connection.

Then, and only then, will manufacturing consider that you've done the
job.

RL
 
"Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message news:gEJbc.32389
....
Oh yes. Then why do you answer people like a dork with no brain?

Because it's the polite thing to do when people like a dork with no
Click to expand...
brain ask a question?

;->
Rich
 
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:42:33 GMT, "Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote:

Not every one works on desktop gear....
Click to expand...
I was always fond of instrumentation for downhole nuclear weapons
tests. No problem about extended warranty, and the replacement market
is great. The stuff only has to work for a couple of milliseconds.

John
 
X-No-Archive: yes
"John Larkin" wrote
: "Roger Gt" wrote
:
: > Not every one works on desktop gear....
:
: I was always fond of instrumentation for downhole nuclear
weapons
: tests. No problem about extended warranty, and the replacement
market
: is great. The stuff only has to work for a couple of
milliseconds.
: John


A lot like the Aerobee and High altitude balloon telemetry
packages! They wanted to recover them, but didn't trust them to
ever work again. So they bought three for each launch.

Also the X15 tail package My team did for the Airforce. Used one
a few times, then moved on and never used the other two..... One
is now in a museum, cut in half and polished to show the compact
construction.
 
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