soi cmos for rfic

J

jason

Guest
Hello All

Anyone who deal with or understand the challenges of using soi cmos for
rfic design?
Is the trend good and how does it go?

Kindly share with me

Thank you

Jason
 
In article <1124204751.204551.139570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
cheanglong@gmail.com says...
Hello All

Anyone who deal with or understand the challenges of using soi cmos for
rfic design?
Click to expand...
SOI CMOS for RF? Why not GaAs or SiGe? SOI CMOS is more of a logic
process.

Is the trend good and how does it go?
Kindly share with me
Click to expand...
--
Keith
 
On 16 Aug 2005 08:05:51 -0700, "jason" <cheanglong@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello All

Anyone who deal with or understand the challenges of using soi cmos for
rfic design?
Click to expand...
Yes.

Is the trend good and how does it go?
Click to expand...
Yes, it's good.

Kindly share with me
Click to expand...
That's what I get paid to do ;-)

Thank you

Jason
Click to expand...

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Keith Williams wrote:
cheanglong@gmail.com says...
Anyone who deal with or understand the challenges of using soi cmos for
rfic design?

SOI CMOS for RF? Why not GaAs or SiGe? SOI CMOS is more of a logic
process.
Click to expand...
CMOS is dirt cheap, and incredibly pliable even without SOI.
See the paper by Doan et al, in the 2004 IEEE Solid State Conference.
His slides are at
bwrc.eecs.berkeley.edu/Research/RF/Publication/pubs/Doan_ISSCC04_slides.pdf

Regards,
Mikko
 
In article <430241a5$0$20562$f4da826c@news.24online.fi>,
Okkim.Atnarivik@iki.fi.invalid says...
Keith Williams wrote:
cheanglong@gmail.com says...
Anyone who deal with or understand the challenges of using soi cmos for
rfic design?

SOI CMOS for RF? Why not GaAs or SiGe? SOI CMOS is more of a logic
process.

CMOS is dirt cheap, and incredibly pliable even without SOI.
See the paper by Doan et al, in the 2004 IEEE Solid State Conference.
His slides are at
bwrc.eecs.berkeley.edu/Research/RF/Publication/pubs/Doan_ISSCC04_slides.pdf
Click to expand...
The question was specifically about SOI. AFAIK, SOI is more of a logic
process. Is anyone doing serious RF in SOI? I know there is some
analog (PLLs etc.).

--
Keith
 
Keith Williams skrev:

In article <430241a5$0$20562$f4da826c@news.24online.fi>,
Okkim.Atnarivik@iki.fi.invalid says...
Keith Williams wrote:
cheanglong@gmail.com says...
Anyone who deal with or understand the challenges of using soi cmos for
rfic design?

SOI CMOS for RF? Why not GaAs or SiGe? SOI CMOS is more of a logic
process.

CMOS is dirt cheap, and incredibly pliable even without SOI.
See the paper by Doan et al, in the 2004 IEEE Solid State Conference.
His slides are at
bwrc.eecs.berkeley.edu/Research/RF/Publication/pubs/Doan_ISSCC04_slides.pdf

The question was specifically about SOI. AFAIK, SOI is more of a logic
process. Is anyone doing serious RF in SOI? I know there is some
analog (PLLs etc.).

--
Keith
Click to expand...
I believe SiliconWave does (did?) a Bluetooth transciever in SOI,
siw1502

-Lasse
 
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 09:19:06 -0400, Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz>
wrote:

In article <430241a5$0$20562$f4da826c@news.24online.fi>,
Okkim.Atnarivik@iki.fi.invalid says...
Keith Williams wrote:
cheanglong@gmail.com says...
Anyone who deal with or understand the challenges of using soi cmos for
rfic design?

SOI CMOS for RF? Why not GaAs or SiGe? SOI CMOS is more of a logic
process.

CMOS is dirt cheap, and incredibly pliable even without SOI.
See the paper by Doan et al, in the 2004 IEEE Solid State Conference.
His slides are at
bwrc.eecs.berkeley.edu/Research/RF/Publication/pubs/Doan_ISSCC04_slides.pdf

The question was specifically about SOI. AFAIK, SOI is more of a logic
process. Is anyone doing serious RF in SOI? I know there is some
analog (PLLs etc.).
Click to expand...
Honeywell in Maryland did, though I think that operation is now shut
down.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 09:19:06 -0400, Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz
wrote:
CMOS is dirt cheap, and incredibly pliable even without SOI.
See the paper by Doan et al, in the 2004 IEEE Solid State Conference.
His slides are at
bwrc.eecs.berkeley.edu/Research/RF/Publication/pubs/Doan_ISSCC04_slides.pdf

The question was specifically about SOI. AFAIK, SOI is more of a logic
process. Is anyone doing serious RF in SOI? I know there is some
analog (PLLs etc.).


Honeywell in Maryland did, though I think that operation is now shut
down.

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...

We do, I believe. Back in the dim distant days when we made laptops
(i.e. before May 2005) we did all the wifi stuff ourselves. Some was
SiGe, but not all. We're still supplying Lenovo, as well as a lot of
other customers.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
Yorktown Heights NY
 
Thank you All for the comment.
But why there are comments on Good things of SOi while some even shut
down their plant or production?
Will cmos soi become mainstream of cmos roadmap ?
How does it benefit analog , Rf and digital domain respectively?

Anyone knows?
By the way, Jim, do you design soi cmos circuit for analog or rf
circuit?
Why did you choose soi for? Low noise or ?

Hear from you all

Thank you

Jason
 
On 17 Aug 2005 09:16:37 -0700, "jason" <cheanglong@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you All for the comment.
But why there are comments on Good things of SOi while some even shut
down their plant or production?
Click to expand...
Yield. Reproducibility.

Will cmos soi become mainstream of cmos roadmap ?
Click to expand...
I don't think so. I've yet to see a stable process.

How does it benefit analog , Rf and digital domain respectively?
Click to expand...
Low stray capacitance to ground. Low crosstalk.

Anyone knows?
By the way, Jim, do you design soi cmos circuit for analog or rf
circuit?
Click to expand...
Yes.

Why did you choose soi for? Low noise or ?
Click to expand...
High frequency. 1.6GHz GPS receiver.

Hear from you all

Thank you

Jason
Click to expand...

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
In article <43036285.8080204@SpamMeSenseless.pergamos.net>,
pcdh@SpamMeSenseless.pergamos.net says...
Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 09:19:06 -0400, Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz
wrote:
CMOS is dirt cheap, and incredibly pliable even without SOI.
See the paper by Doan et al, in the 2004 IEEE Solid State Conference.
His slides are at
bwrc.eecs.berkeley.edu/Research/RF/Publication/pubs/Doan_ISSCC04_slides.pdf

The question was specifically about SOI. AFAIK, SOI is more of a logic
process. Is anyone doing serious RF in SOI? I know there is some
analog (PLLs etc.).


Honeywell in Maryland did, though I think that operation is now shut
down.

...Jim Thompson


We do, I believe. Back in the dim distant days when we made laptops
(i.e. before May 2005) we did all the wifi stuff ourselves. Some was
SiGe, but not all. We're still supplying Lenovo, as well as a lot of
other customers.
Click to expand...
Many (most?) of the ThinkPads use "Centrino Technology", thus the WiFi
is Intel's. A quick look shows the T40s, X31s, and R40s are Centrinos,
anyway.

http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/thinkpad/mobiletechnology/

--
Keith
 
Keith Williams wrote:

We do, I believe. Back in the dim distant days when we made laptops
(i.e. before May 2005) we did all the wifi stuff ourselves. Some was
SiGe, but not all. We're still supplying Lenovo, as well as a lot of
other customers.


Many (most?) of the ThinkPads use "Centrino Technology", thus the WiFi
is Intel's. A quick look shows the T40s, X31s, and R40s are Centrinos,
anyway.

http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/thinkpad/mobiletechnology/
Click to expand...
Right, the 2 GHz ones are mostly Intel now--the challenges are at higher
frequency.

I know the guy who designs them--they started out with a 900 MHz
cordless connection for a modem, way back before wifi. Now they have a
60 GHz transceiver chip working, and 94 GHz in the works. They talked
about it at ISSC '05, and are going to again at CICC in September, but I
don't have the reference handy.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs
 
Phil

The 60GHz transceiver is made in SOI technology or bulk cmos or SIGe?

Thanks

Jason
 
The 60GHz transceiver is made in SOI technology or bulk cmos or SIGe?
Click to expand...
If Phil refers to the same Berkeley group I referred to
earlier:
http://bwrc.eecs.berkeley.edu/Research/RF/Publication/pubs/Doan_ISSCC04_slides.pdf
that is bulk CMOS.
As I am not collaborating with those guys (my colleagues
here at VTT do) I'm not up-the-date with the details, though.

Quoting from Doan et al "Design considerations for 60GHz
CMOS radios" by Doan et al in the December 2004 issue of
the IEEE Communications Magazine (p137):
"A wideband general-purpose 60GHz amplifier has been designed
and fabricated in a 130nm digital CMOS process with no special
analog or RF oprions".

Regards,
Mikko
 
Thanks Mikko
So it is a bulk cmos process.

By the way, anyone here deals with device physics for a SOI device
before?
I need some advice.

By the way Jim, how do you decide if you would go for fully or
partially depleted soi?

Hear from you all

best regards
Jason
 
On 18 Aug 2005 07:35:22 -0700, "jason" <cheanglong@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Mikko
So it is a bulk cmos process.

By the way, anyone here deals with device physics for a SOI device
before?
I need some advice.

By the way Jim, how do you decide if you would go for fully or
partially depleted soi?
Click to expand...
I didn't. As is often the case, I was stuck with the client-selected
process.

Hear from you all

best regards
Jason
Click to expand...

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
jason wrote:
Phil

The 60GHz transceiver is made in SOI technology or bulk cmos or SIGe?

Thanks

Jason

I misspoke, sorry. The 60 GHz transceiver is SiGe bipolar. It was done
Click to expand...
by Brian Gaucher's group here at IBM Watson.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs
 
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