Software for a beginner to design and learn about circuits w

M

msv-groups

Guest
Hi,

I'm interested in learning about circuitry as a hobby and to eventually
create a few small projects that I had in mind, such as guitar pedals
and a few audio devices, but obviously I have to start small.

I'm somewhat competent with programming/mathematics, have some text
books, and I do know a -little- analogue+digital circuit theory, but
I've never had a real hands-on attempt by myself before so I'll be
pretty much attacking this as though I know nothing.

Can anyone recommend some software (free or cheap) that would be good
for a beginner to use to learn about circuit behaviour and design some
circuits with? Are there programs out there that actually allow you to
drop in popular microcontrollers and model their behaviour as well?

Thanks,
Matt.
 
msv-groups <msv-groupsREMOVE@westnet.com.au> wrote:

Can anyone recommend some software (free or cheap) that would be good
for a beginner to use to learn about circuit behaviour and design some
circuits with?
Click to expand...
See my notes and links to some 60 ECAD programs at
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/ECADList.html
several of which include simulation facilities.

Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
"Jim Douglas" <james.douglas@genesis-software.com> wrote:

I am also a beginner and found CircuitMaker, it's student version is free
and so far been working Ok with the experiments that I do, BTW I do them in
the computer and then build them on the bread board and perform
measurements.

Was wondering why no one recommended CircuitMaker?
Click to expand...
Patience! In the 5 hours since Matt's post, of the 8 replies so far:
2 recommended against using a simulation package at all
1 recommended LTSpice
1 recommended Proteus VSM,
1 software author recommended (surprise) his own package, and
2 (including me) recommended researching the many programs available.

You were the 8th, recommending CM. I'd echo that, as it's what I use
myself (although I have CM 2000 Pro, with several thousand models
built-in, not the free version).

I'd also reinforce the value of experimental breadboarding and the use
of a 'scope - but nevertheless I sure wish I'd had a simulator when I
started out in the hobby.

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:31:48 GMT, "Kevin Aylward" <salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk>
wrote:

EWB is crap and essentially useless.
Click to expand...
That's about my opinion of EWB, as well.

Jon
 
Thanks for the advice everyone, it's all been helpful and hopefully I
will be creating something interesting soon enough.

Matt.
 
On 30 Nov 2004 03:10:35 -0800, David L. Jones wrote:

After all, electronics is a
*practical* field (unless you become a uni lecturer :->)
Click to expand...
Or a software salesman...
 
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:09:58 +0800, msv-groups
<msv-groupsREMOVE@westnet.com.au> wrote:

Thanks for the advice everyone, it's all been helpful and hopefully I
will be creating something interesting soon enough.
Click to expand...
And next time you'll know better than to ask a question to which
*everybody* has a passionate opinion to share... ;-)

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
 
mike wrote:
msv-groups wrote:
Hi,

I'm interested in learning about circuitry as a hobby and to
eventually
create a few small projects that I had in mind, such as guitar
pedals
and a few audio devices, but obviously I have to start small.

I'm somewhat competent with programming/mathematics, have some text

books, and I do know a -little- analogue+digital circuit theory,
but
I've never had a real hands-on attempt by myself before so I'll be
pretty much attacking this as though I know nothing.

Can anyone recommend some software (free or cheap) that would be
good
for a beginner to use to learn about circuit behaviour and design
some
circuits with? Are there programs out there that actually allow
you to
drop in popular microcontrollers and model their behaviour as well?

Thanks,
Matt.

Wait while I get up on this her soapbox.

Circuit design is the process of turning an idea into an
implementation
concept into a bunch of hardware and/or software to realize the idea.

For this you don't need software. You need a BOOK!!!
Go to the library and check out a book on analog circuit design.
Learn about Ohm's law, norton's theorems etc. Learn about rc/lc/rlc
circuits. How to bias a transistor, FET etc. Learn how to do Laplace
transforms. You're rarely gonna do a laplace transform, but the
knowledge of how, gives you great insight into what's gonna happen
when you change a circuit paramaeter or topology. It allows you to
pick
component values right out of the air that are very close to what
you'll
finally end up with after you fine tune it. It tells you instantly
when
you're way off base and need a different approach.
If you need a calculator, you're going too deep. Your objective is
to
be able to scratch out a circuit topology, estimate bandwidths, gain,

impedance, signal fidelity etc. Learn about component parasitics.
Unless you're doing audio work, a resistor is not just a resistor.
And
it goes downhill from there. Learn how real components have
parasitics
and vary relative to their specifications and how to mitigate the
impact
of those variations on your objective.

Learn about Fourier transformations betwee time and frequency
domains.
Again, you're rarely gonna do one by hand, but knowing how gives you
great insight into topologies and components required to realize your
design.

Now, go back to the library and checkout a book on digital circuit
design. Learn that ALL curcuits are analog and that most digital
problems have to do with the ignored analog characteristics of the
digital simplification. Learn about Karnaugh maps, glitches, races
etc.

Now, you know how to design circuits. It's time to start looking at
software to simulate the circuit you've already designed to fine tune
it's parameters and take into consideration the simplifications you
used
to design it in your head or with a pencil.

Circuit simulation replaces the tedious VERIFICATION calculations
that
we used to do by hand.
It does NOT replace the thought processes needed to design circuits.

You have only to read the archives of this newsgroup to see countless
examples where people stuffed random numbers into a simulator and
came
up with something that simulated, but was impractical, unrepeatable,
or just plain sad.

Or you could just try to hire an engineer and learn the same sad
fact.
Don't think I've ever asked an engineering candidate how to simulate
a
circuit. But I ask 'em all to tell me what an RC time constant is...
and most don't know.

Help me down from this here soapbox...please.
mike
Click to expand...
Nicely summed up Mike.

That's exactly why I think simulators should only be used by more
experienced people, once they understand how to design properly and
have a good understanding and gut feel for how the basic building
blocks work.

I'll agree that most graduates (and many supposedly "experienced"
people) I've interviewed are absolutely clueless when you ask them the
basic questions.
I once interviewed an experienced guy who proudly bought in this Thesis
project documention to the interview to show off what he was capable
of. I asked him a simple question like "what does this chip do" and he
couldn't tell me a thing, even when it was written right in front of
him.
That's SAD.

Dave :)
 
Subject: Re: Software for a beginner to design and learn about circuits with?
From: "Kevin Aylward" salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
Date: 01/12/2004 08:06 GMT Standard Time
Message-id: <MXerd.56203$F7.17543@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk


Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
Click to expand...
I read your post and could hardly believe what i was reading, the idea that a
simulator is a replacement for benchwork! The I saw that you sell them, that
explained it.
 
Kevin,

"Kevin Aylward" <salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MXerd.56203$F7.17543@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
Digital is for those just to stupid to do analogue:)
Click to expand...
For flashing an LED, yes.
For building a modern radio receiver (as found in cell phones, set top
boxes, etc.)... no.

But I'm sure you knew that. :)
 
Subject: Re: Software for a beginner to design and learn about circuits with?
From: "Kevin Aylward" salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
Date: 01/12/2004 20:23 GMT Standard Time
Message-id: <fLprd.60413$F7.9663@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk



I don't what them to have free will, I want them to buy my product
because I told them to.

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
Click to expand...
Says it all really. Simulation is at best second best, the only reason for ic
designers using it is because they dont have an alternative. There are plenty
of chips with serious shortcommings around.
 
Seems clear (to me at least) that there is a place for physical prototyping
and experimenting and a place for simulation. RF is a place for
prototyping/physical experiments. Large numbers of transistors/op-amp
designs are a place for simulating. I don't know anything about sex,
anymore, but simulation sounds too much like masturbation and that wrecks
your vision.
 
Pooh Bear wrote:
I'll agree that most graduates (and many supposedly "experienced"
people) I've interviewed are absolutely clueless when you ask them
the
basic questions.

Likewise. What exactly *do* they teach them ?
They teach them how to pass exams.
Click to expand...

Dave :)
 
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