Small PLD choices

[Al Clark]

We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our
designs.

The features I like with these devices is as follows:

1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities
2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry.
3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O

The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching
for alternatives.

I looked at the Xilinx CoolRunner and CoolRunner 2 parts. Here were my
impressions based from their web site. I would appreciate comments.

CoolRunner:

1. Although they have these parts on their web site, they seem to be
deemphasised. This suggested to me that maybe this line is on the way
out.

2. I like the 3.3V supply with the 5V tolerance.

3. Power is lower than Altera, prices are higher.

CoolRunner 2:

1. Xilinx wants to sell these parts.
2. They use 1.8V supplies which is just about the only supply I don't
already need in my design.
3. They are not 5V tolerant which may or may not be important (but often
is)
4. They cost more than Altera Max 3000 or CoolRunner.

Are the tools as easy as Altera? What's a good In-Circuit-Programmer?
Are there gotchas?

What other players or parts should I consider?

1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and
low cost.


--
Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff
Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com

 

[Mikeandmax]

Dan writes -

We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our
designs.

The features I like with these devices is as follows:

1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities
2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry.
3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O

The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching
for alternatives.

I looked at the Xilinx CoolRunner and CoolRunner 2 parts. Here were my
impressions based from their web site. I would appreciate comments.

CoolRunner:

1. Although they have these parts on their web site, they seem to be
deemphasised. This suggested to me that maybe this line is on the way
out.

2. I like the 3.3V supply with the 5V tolerance.

3. Power is lower than Altera, prices are higher.

CoolRunner 2:

1. Xilinx wants to sell these parts.
2. They use 1.8V supplies which is just about the only supply I don't
already need in my design.
3. They are not 5V tolerant which may or may not be important (but often
is)
4. They cost more than Altera Max 3000 or CoolRunner.

Are the tools as easy as Altera? What's a good In-Circuit-Programmer?
Are there gotchas?

What other players or parts should I consider?

1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and
low cost.


--
Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff
Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com

you might want to also consider Lattice Mach4000 family - the 4KZ is the lowest

power device family available anywhere presently - tools are free from the web,
cost is "competitive" - I know, I had to say it tho!
Schematic, ABEL, VHDL,VERILOG all in the free tool.
Device is offered with 3.3v supply, 2.5v supply, or 1.8v supply. I/O is 5v
tolerant with no external components required.
Give your local Lattice rep or FAE a call -
Michael Thomas
LSC SFAE
New York/New Jersey
631-874-4968 fax 631-874-4977
michael.thomas@latticesemi.com
for the latest info on Lattice products - http://www.latticesemi.com
LATTICE - BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER

 

[rickman]

Al Clark wrote:

We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our
designs.

The features I like with these devices is as follows:

1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities
2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry.
3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O

The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching
for alternatives.

I looked at the Xilinx CoolRunner and CoolRunner 2 parts. Here were my
impressions based from their web site. I would appreciate comments.

CoolRunner:

1. Although they have these parts on their web site, they seem to be
deemphasised. This suggested to me that maybe this line is on the way
out.

2. I like the 3.3V supply with the 5V tolerance.

3. Power is lower than Altera, prices are higher.

CoolRunner 2:

1. Xilinx wants to sell these parts.
2. They use 1.8V supplies which is just about the only supply I don't
already need in my design.
3. They are not 5V tolerant which may or may not be important (but often
is)
4. They cost more than Altera Max 3000 or CoolRunner.

Are the tools as easy as Altera? What's a good In-Circuit-Programmer?
Are there gotchas?

What other players or parts should I consider?

1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and
low cost.

Xilinx, and most other vendors, always ephasize the latest and greatest
parts they have. The Coolrunner parts are really only a year or two old
and so they will be around a long time to come. You can also get very
competitive pricing if you discuss this with your distributor. They
love to give you what you need to get a design win since they get paid
for every part sold to that socket even if they done sell the parts!
They will go to bat for you with the manufacturer on price. I know this
from experience.


--

Rick "rickman" Collins

rick.collins@XYarius.com
Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY
removed.

Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company
Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com
4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice
Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX

 

[Khim Bittle]

If your schedule is such that you won't go into production for 6
months you may want to contact Altera about MAX 2 , the next
generation of product that will be available mid 2004. This just
provides the option of staying with the same toolset for a much lower
power device ... but they aren't 5V tolerant. I also have a power
issue with the current MAX parts but since the other logic parts on my
boards are Altera I really prefer to keep one development tool for the
board and thus will wait for MAX 2 for the power reduction.

Lattice also makes some great parts with good power characteristics
... I used to be a loyal Lattice guy until my local FAE quit and
support stopped ... but no more.


On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:55:49 GMT, Al Clark <dsp@danvillesignal.com>
wrote:

We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our
designs.

The features I like with these devices is as follows:

1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities
2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry.
3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O

The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching
for alternatives.

I looked at the Xilinx CoolRunner and CoolRunner 2 parts. Here were my
impressions based from their web site. I would appreciate comments.

CoolRunner:

1. Although they have these parts on their web site, they seem to be
deemphasised. This suggested to me that maybe this line is on the way
out.

2. I like the 3.3V supply with the 5V tolerance.

3. Power is lower than Altera, prices are higher.

CoolRunner 2:

1. Xilinx wants to sell these parts.
2. They use 1.8V supplies which is just about the only supply I don't
already need in my design.
3. They are not 5V tolerant which may or may not be important (but often
is)
4. They cost more than Altera Max 3000 or CoolRunner.

Are the tools as easy as Altera? What's a good In-Circuit-Programmer?
Are there gotchas?

What other players or parts should I consider?

1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and
low cost.


--
Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff
Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com

 

[Jim Granville]

Al Clark wrote:

We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our
designs.

The features I like with these devices is as follows:

1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities
2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry.
3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O

The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching
for alternatives.

I looked at the Xilinx CoolRunner and CoolRunner 2 parts. Here were my
impressions based from their web site. I would appreciate comments.

CoolRunner:

1. Although they have these parts on their web site, they seem to be
deemphasised. This suggested to me that maybe this line is on the way
out.

2. I like the 3.3V supply with the 5V tolerance.

3. Power is lower than Altera, prices are higher.

CoolRunner 2:

1. Xilinx wants to sell these parts.
2. They use 1.8V supplies which is just about the only supply I don't
already need in my design.
3. They are not 5V tolerant which may or may not be important (but often
is)
4. They cost more than Altera Max 3000 or CoolRunner.

Relative price is a good indicator of CR/CR2 - commonly the newer
devices are cheaper, to encourage design migration.
Getting an accurate relative price right now is not easy, as
vendors are trying to nudge up margins comming out of the slump.

Xilinx have a CR2 webseminar inside the next 48 hrs.

What other players or parts should I consider?

1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and
low cost.

If power is more important than speed, look at Atmel ATF15xx families.
They have POF2JED Sw, so you can migrate your Altera design to Atmel,
and they are close pinouts to the MAX7032.7064 devices.

Other devices are Lattice 4000Z family, and Altera are 'horizon
promising'
MAX 2 families, but with some caveats :
- Currently vaporware
- They only claim 90% power reduce, which leaves them well above CR2 and
4000Z levels
- Smallest MAX-2 device mentioned is 128 MC, so that's larger than
3032/3064's
That's a fairly large chunk of market to ignore....

Lattice's WEB boast's about their Static Icc edge over CR2, but they
never mention dynamic Icc (mA/Mhz), so one can conclude they are close,
but just loose out on that one

-jg

 

[Steve Prokosch]

Al,
XPLA3 (CoolRunner) devices are not going away.
Steve

Al Clark wrote:

We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our
designs.

The features I like with these devices is as follows:

1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities
2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry.
3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O

The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching
for alternatives.

I looked at the Xilinx CoolRunner and CoolRunner 2 parts. Here were my
impressions based from their web site. I would appreciate comments.

CoolRunner:

1. Although they have these parts on their web site, they seem to be
deemphasised. This suggested to me that maybe this line is on the way
out.

2. I like the 3.3V supply with the 5V tolerance.

3. Power is lower than Altera, prices are higher.

CoolRunner 2:

1. Xilinx wants to sell these parts.
2. They use 1.8V supplies which is just about the only supply I don't
already need in my design.
3. They are not 5V tolerant which may or may not be important (but often
is)
4. They cost more than Altera Max 3000 or CoolRunner.

Are the tools as easy as Altera? What's a good In-Circuit-Programmer?
Are there gotchas?

What other players or parts should I consider?

1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and
low cost.

 

[Ulf Samuelsson]

"Al Clark" <dsp@danvillesignal.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94386F2DBE553aclarkdanvillesignal@66.133.130.30...

We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our
designs.

The features I like with these devices is as follows:

1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities
2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry.
3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O

The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching
for alternatives.


What other players or parts should I consider?

1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and
low cost.

You might want to check out the Atmel ATF1500 series.
They are pincompatible with the Altera parts.
Can convert easily the Altera files, and if you have size limitations,
they will fit more into each device as well.

--
Best Regards
Ulf at atmel dot com
These comments are intended to be my own opinion and they
may, or may not be shared by my employer, Atmel Sweden.

--
Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff
Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com

 

[Dan]

Khim,

What area (Country/State) are you located in?

Dan
"Khim Bittle" <khimbittle@cliftonREMOVEsystems.com> wrote in message
news:3fbbacbb.13085309@news.compuserve.com...

If your schedule is such that you won't go into production for 6
months you may want to contact Altera about MAX 2 , the next
generation of product that will be available mid 2004. This just
provides the option of staying with the same toolset for a much lower
power device ... but they aren't 5V tolerant. I also have a power
issue with the current MAX parts but since the other logic parts on my
boards are Altera I really prefer to keep one development tool for the
board and thus will wait for MAX 2 for the power reduction.

Lattice also makes some great parts with good power characteristics
.. I used to be a loyal Lattice guy until my local FAE quit and
support stopped ... but no more.


On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:55:49 GMT, Al Clark <dsp@danvillesignal.com
wrote:

We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our
designs.

The features I like with these devices is as follows:

1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities
2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry.
3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O

The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching
for alternatives.

I looked at the Xilinx CoolRunner and CoolRunner 2 parts. Here were my
impressions based from their web site. I would appreciate comments.

CoolRunner:

1. Although they have these parts on their web site, they seem to be
deemphasised. This suggested to me that maybe this line is on the way
out.

2. I like the 3.3V supply with the 5V tolerance.

3. Power is lower than Altera, prices are higher.

CoolRunner 2:

1. Xilinx wants to sell these parts.
2. They use 1.8V supplies which is just about the only supply I don't
already need in my design.
3. They are not 5V tolerant which may or may not be important (but often
is)
4. They cost more than Altera Max 3000 or CoolRunner.

Are the tools as easy as Altera? What's a good In-Circuit-Programmer?
Are there gotchas?

What other players or parts should I consider?

1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and
low cost.


--
Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff
Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com