--
After moving to OpenAccess (in future) will we still have Integrators
--
functions such as bor, band - which are equivalent to operators | and &. Also
.Depends what you want to use the bitmap for. If it's for menu items, icons
--
Well it's over 10 years since I did ITK training so my memory
--Andrew Beckett wrote:
2. Simplicity - the CDBA interface is probably simpler than the OA interface.
Well it's over 10 years since I did ITK training so my memory
of the CDBA API is a bit vague, but I'd say OpenAccess
is a hell of a lot simpler and cleaner. OA has a well structured
C++ interface and is generally well thought out. And being
open source it compiles on most things, even Windows
- Keith
for lisp-to-C interfacing. I believe it doesn t solve you problem with
--
Frank,
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:16:02 -0800, "gennari" <gennari@eecs.berkeley.edu> wrote:
A few years ago I had to write a separate C++ program to get around some of
the limitations of SKILL, and then call that program from SKILL. In
particular, SKILL/Cadence crashed when I tried to create a hash table of
several hundred thousand x/y points. Also, I couldn't find any way of
performing bit-level operations in SKILL such as bitshifts, bit masking,
etc. In fact I think skill uses 32 bits in all integers, even when I only
need to store an 8-bit value, and that's 4X memory overhead. I eventually
had to implement the layout database and gometry query functions into my C++
program to aviod writing I/O files of many MB. Now the program is
independent of Cadence, but I wonder if all that work was really worth it.
functions such as bor, band - which are equivalent to operators | and &. Also
bnand, bnor, bxor, bxnor (operators for each of these too).
leftshift, rightshift (<< and >>
The bitfield, bitfield1 functions as well are useful. These are equivalents
of doing something like:
a=1234
a<4:2> => 4
a<4> => 1
a<<1 => 2468
a>>2 => 308
a&10 => 2
a|5 => 1239
a^2 => 1232 (xor)
Bet you didn't know you could do that ;-(
They're all documented, and have been there for as long as I can remember.
Oh, and as a side note, is there any way to create a small bitmap image in
Cadence other than building it from single pixel rectangles on the
multi-colored "y0" - "y9" layers in the LSW? It takes a really long time to
do this in SKILL.
Depends what you want to use the bitmap for. If it's for menu items, icons
etc in DFII, then hiStringToIcon and related functions would help. Some of the
^dl (displayList) functions can be used too (don't get used much, but can be
quite handy).
Andrew.
Frank
"Andrew Beckett" <andrewb@DELETETHISBITcadence.com> wrote in message
news:slo5svs70qi84kq9797vh3l7spk5dbuigr@4ax.com...
You could use the Integrators Toolkit (ITK-DB). This allows you to write
standalone applications which access the database from C, and there is
some
(limited) support for invoking SKILL from this.
However, I suspect this is not what you want. You can't (for example) link
in
some C code with DFII and call that from SKILL (we don't support that, for
a variety of reasons - one being that it is rarely necessary). What you
can do
however is to write your computationally intensive tasks in a separate
program,
which you can then invoke using the ipc function calls (e.g.
ipcBeginProcess),
and then communicate to that external program either synchronously or
asynchronously. This can be quite an effective means of doing things
outside.
What sort of intensive operations are you talking about? SKILL can be
pretty
quick provided that you do things correctly (it's byte-code compiled,
and runs on a virtual machine).
Regards,
Andrew.
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:20:13 -0700, sampath <sdechu@micron.com> wrote:
Hi,
is there anyway that i can mix skill and c code,
I am looking for a way to do some runtime intensive operations in c and
get the data into a skill code?
can somebody tell a solution?
sampath
--
Andrew Beckett
Senior Technical Leader
Custom IC Solutions
Cadence Design Systems Ltd
--
Andrew Beckett
Senior Technical Leader
Custom IC Solutions
Cadence Design Systems Ltd
Frank,
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:16:02 -0800, "gennari" <gennari@eecs.berkeley.edu
wrote:
A few years ago I had to write a separate C++ program to get around some
of
the limitations of SKILL, and then call that program from SKILL. In
particular, SKILL/Cadence crashed when I tried to create a hash table of
several hundred thousand x/y points. Also, I couldn't find any way of
performing bit-level operations in SKILL such as bitshifts, bit masking,
etc. In fact I think skill uses 32 bits in all integers, even when I only
need to store an 8-bit value, and that's 4X memory overhead. I eventually
had to implement the layout database and gometry query functions into my
C++
program to aviod writing I/O files of many MB. Now the program is
independent of Cadence, but I wonder if all that work was really worth
it.
functions such as bor, band - which are equivalent to operators | and &.
Also
bnand, bnor, bxor, bxnor (operators for each of these too).
leftshift, rightshift (<< and >>
The bitfield, bitfield1 functions as well are useful. These are
equivalents
of doing something like:
a=1234
a<4:2> => 4
a<4> => 1
a<<1 => 2468
a>>2 => 308
a&10 => 2
a|5 => 1239
a^2 => 1232 (xor)
Bet you didn't know you could do that ;-(
They're all documented, and have been there for as long as I can remember.
Oh, and as a side note, is there any way to create a small bitmap image
in
Cadence other than building it from single pixel rectangles on the
multi-colored "y0" - "y9" layers in the LSW? It takes a really long time
to
do this in SKILL.
Depends what you want to use the bitmap for. If it's for menu items, icons
etc in DFII, then hiStringToIcon and related functions would help. Some of
the
^dl (displayList) functions can be used too (don't get used much, but can
be
quite handy).
Andrew.
Frank
"Andrew Beckett" <andrewb@DELETETHISBITcadence.com> wrote in message
news:slo5svs70qi84kq9797vh3l7spk5dbuigr@4ax.com...
You could use the Integrators Toolkit (ITK-DB). This allows you to
write
standalone applications which access the database from C, and there is
some
(limited) support for invoking SKILL from this.
However, I suspect this is not what you want. You can't (for example)
link
in
some C code with DFII and call that from SKILL (we don't support that,
for
a variety of reasons - one being that it is rarely necessary). What you
can do
however is to write your computationally intensive tasks in a separate
program,
which you can then invoke using the ipc function calls (e.g.
ipcBeginProcess),
and then communicate to that external program either synchronously or
asynchronously. This can be quite an effective means of doing things
outside.
What sort of intensive operations are you talking about? SKILL can be
pretty
quick provided that you do things correctly (it's byte-code compiled,
and runs on a virtual machine).
Regards,
Andrew.
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:20:13 -0700, sampath <sdechu@micron.com> wrote:
Hi,
is there anyway that i can mix skill and c code,
I am looking for a way to do some runtime intensive operations in c
and
get the data into a skill code?
can somebody tell a solution?
sampath
--
Andrew Beckett
Senior Technical Leader
Custom IC Solutions
Cadence Design Systems Ltd
--
Andrew Beckett
Senior Technical Leader
Custom IC Solutions
Cadence Design Systems Ltd
Hi all,
SKILL is slow especially when processing long long lists.
example I want to go through each shape in a list of some millions of
shape to do some processing... I found that doing it in C(ITKDB) is much
faster than SKILL. I can use ITKDB for writing stand alone
tools/functions but as Andrew said thats not what I want.
Mainly what I am looking for is...when I am in df2 session, already most
of the information is in virtual memory...so as data is available
through df2, I just need to write functions in c to operate on it,
instead getting data again using ITKDB.
I am looking for something similar to inline C module for perl, so that
I can access c functions in a perl module..
I dont know how tough it is to provide that type of feature for cadence
and maintain it. Because, we can see that TCL and PERL they all can
handle C functions.And they work pretty well. I have a feeling that
many people need this type of functionality.
BTW, Frank! you said you wrote a C++ function few yrs back and called
it from SKILL, may I know how did u write? did you use ItkDB or IPC or
something else?
Thanks for your responses
Sampath
Andrew Beckett wrote:
Frank,
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:16:02 -0800, "gennari"
gennari@eecs.berkeley.edu> wrote:
A few years ago I had to write a separate C++ program to get around some
of
the limitations of SKILL, and then call that program from SKILL. In
particular, SKILL/Cadence crashed when I tried to create a hash table of
several hundred thousand x/y points. Also, I couldn't find any way of
performing bit-level operations in SKILL such as bitshifts, bit masking,
etc. In fact I think skill uses 32 bits in all integers, even when I
only
need to store an 8-bit value, and that's 4X memory overhead. I
eventually
had to implement the layout database and gometry query functions into my
C++
program to aviod writing I/O files of many MB. Now the program is
independent of Cadence, but I wonder if all that work was really worth
it.
functions such as bor, band - which are equivalent to operators | and &.
Also
bnand, bnor, bxor, bxnor (operators for each of these too).
leftshift, rightshift (<< and >>
The bitfield, bitfield1 functions as well are useful. These are
equivalents
of doing something like:
a=1234
a<4:2> => 4
a<4> => 1
a<<1 => 2468
a>>2 => 308
a&10 => 2
a|5 => 1239
a^2 => 1232 (xor)
Bet you didn't know you could do that ;-(
They're all documented, and have been there for as long as I can
remember.
Oh, and as a side note, is there any way to create a small bitmap image
in
Cadence other than building it from single pixel rectangles on the
multi-colored "y0" - "y9" layers in the LSW? It takes a really long time
to
do this in SKILL.
Depends what you want to use the bitmap for. If it's for menu items,
icons
etc in DFII, then hiStringToIcon and related functions would help. Some
of the
^dl (displayList) functions can be used too (don't get used much, but
can be
quite handy).
Andrew.
Frank
"Andrew Beckett" <andrewb@DELETETHISBITcadence.com> wrote in message
news:slo5svs70qi84kq9797vh3l7spk5dbuigr@4ax.com...
You could use the Integrators Toolkit (ITK-DB). This allows you to
write
standalone applications which access the database from C, and there is
some
(limited) support for invoking SKILL from this.
However, I suspect this is not what you want. You can't (for example)
link
in
some C code with DFII and call that from SKILL (we don't support that,
for
a variety of reasons - one being that it is rarely necessary). What you
can do
however is to write your computationally intensive tasks in a separate
program,
which you can then invoke using the ipc function calls (e.g.
ipcBeginProcess),
and then communicate to that external program either synchronously or
asynchronously. This can be quite an effective means of doing things
outside.
What sort of intensive operations are you talking about? SKILL can be
pretty
quick provided that you do things correctly (it's byte-code compiled,
and runs on a virtual machine).
Regards,
Andrew.
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:20:13 -0700, sampath <sdechu@micron.com> wrote:
Hi,
is there anyway that i can mix skill and c code,
I am looking for a way to do some runtime intensive operations in c
and
get the data into a skill code?
can somebody tell a solution?
sampath
--
Andrew Beckett
Senior Technical Leader
Custom IC Solutions
Cadence Design Systems Ltd
--
Andrew Beckett
Senior Technical Leader
Custom IC Solutions
Cadence Design Systems Ltd
--Hi all,
SKILL is slow especially when processing long long lists.
example I want to go through each shape in a list of some millions of
shape to do some processing... I found that doing it in C(ITKDB) is much
faster than SKILL. I can use ITKDB for writing stand alone
tools/functions but as Andrew said thats not what I want.
Mainly what I am looking for is...when I am in df2 session, already most
of the information is in virtual memory...so as data is available
through df2, I just need to write functions in c to operate on it,
instead getting data again using ITKDB.
I am looking for something similar to inline C module for perl, so that
I can access c functions in a perl module..
I dont know how tough it is to provide that type of feature for cadence
and maintain it. Because, we can see that TCL and PERL they all can
handle C functions.And they work pretty well. I have a feeling that
many people need this type of functionality.
BTW, Frank! you said you wrote a C++ function few yrs back and called
it from SKILL, may I know how did u write? did you use ItkDB or IPC or
something else?
Thanks for your responses
Sampath
Andrew Beckett wrote:
Frank,
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:16:02 -0800, "gennari" <gennari@eecs.berkeley.edu> wrote:
A few years ago I had to write a separate C++ program to get around some of
the limitations of SKILL, and then call that program from SKILL. In
particular, SKILL/Cadence crashed when I tried to create a hash table of
several hundred thousand x/y points. Also, I couldn't find any way of
performing bit-level operations in SKILL such as bitshifts, bit masking,
etc. In fact I think skill uses 32 bits in all integers, even when I only
need to store an 8-bit value, and that's 4X memory overhead. I eventually
had to implement the layout database and gometry query functions into my C++
program to aviod writing I/O files of many MB. Now the program is
independent of Cadence, but I wonder if all that work was really worth it.
functions such as bor, band - which are equivalent to operators | and &. Also
bnand, bnor, bxor, bxnor (operators for each of these too).
leftshift, rightshift (<< and >>
The bitfield, bitfield1 functions as well are useful. These are equivalents
of doing something like:
a=1234
a<4:2> => 4
a<4> => 1
a<<1 => 2468
a>>2 => 308
a&10 => 2
a|5 => 1239
a^2 => 1232 (xor)
Bet you didn't know you could do that ;-(
They're all documented, and have been there for as long as I can remember.
Oh, and as a side note, is there any way to create a small bitmap image in
Cadence other than building it from single pixel rectangles on the
multi-colored "y0" - "y9" layers in the LSW? It takes a really long time to
do this in SKILL.
Depends what you want to use the bitmap for. If it's for menu items, icons
etc in DFII, then hiStringToIcon and related functions would help. Some of the
^dl (displayList) functions can be used too (don't get used much, but can be
quite handy).
Andrew.
Frank
"Andrew Beckett" <andrewb@DELETETHISBITcadence.com> wrote in message
news:slo5svs70qi84kq9797vh3l7spk5dbuigr@4ax.com...
You could use the Integrators Toolkit (ITK-DB). This allows you to write
standalone applications which access the database from C, and there is
some
(limited) support for invoking SKILL from this.
However, I suspect this is not what you want. You can't (for example) link
in
some C code with DFII and call that from SKILL (we don't support that, for
a variety of reasons - one being that it is rarely necessary). What you
can do
however is to write your computationally intensive tasks in a separate
program,
which you can then invoke using the ipc function calls (e.g.
ipcBeginProcess),
and then communicate to that external program either synchronously or
asynchronously. This can be quite an effective means of doing things
outside.
What sort of intensive operations are you talking about? SKILL can be
pretty
quick provided that you do things correctly (it's byte-code compiled,
and runs on a virtual machine).
Regards,
Andrew.
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:20:13 -0700, sampath <sdechu@micron.com> wrote:
Hi,
is there anyway that i can mix skill and c code,
I am looking for a way to do some runtime intensive operations in c and
get the data into a skill code?
can somebody tell a solution?
sampath
--
Andrew Beckett
Senior Technical Leader
Custom IC Solutions
Cadence Design Systems Ltd
--
Andrew Beckett
Senior Technical Leader
Custom IC Solutions
Cadence Design Systems Ltd
--Thanks Andrew.
I didn't know about the bitfield operators and wish I had known about them
earlier. I just tried '&', '|', and '^', and similar operations which didn't
work as intended and no one in my office knew how to do these types of
things.
The bitmap is different. It's for visualization of shapes overlaid on the
gometry. I'm working in lithography, so I would like to overlay images such
as simulation results of printed shapes over the original layout shapes in
Virtuoso. I'm also working on image/pattern matching, so I'm overlaying
approximate images with complex features (pixel accurate curves) onto the
layout. I could probably also do this by taking a screenshot of a layout and
combining that with the image in a graphics program, but then I have to do
everything by hand instead of using the power of SKILL. It works in SKILL,
it's just so slow to create a 128x128 image with 16,384 rectangles on
various layers.
Frank
"Andrew Beckett" <andrewb@DELETETHISBITcadence.com> wrote in message
news:mqi7svcrtvvd7632t2eco8q7pbjb6bsj9a@4ax.com...
Frank,
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:16:02 -0800, "gennari" <gennari@eecs.berkeley.edu
wrote:
A few years ago I had to write a separate C++ program to get around some
of
the limitations of SKILL, and then call that program from SKILL. In
particular, SKILL/Cadence crashed when I tried to create a hash table of
several hundred thousand x/y points. Also, I couldn't find any way of
performing bit-level operations in SKILL such as bitshifts, bit masking,
etc. In fact I think skill uses 32 bits in all integers, even when I only
need to store an 8-bit value, and that's 4X memory overhead. I eventually
had to implement the layout database and gometry query functions into my
C++
program to aviod writing I/O files of many MB. Now the program is
independent of Cadence, but I wonder if all that work was really worth
it.
functions such as bor, band - which are equivalent to operators | and &.
Also
bnand, bnor, bxor, bxnor (operators for each of these too).
leftshift, rightshift (<< and >>
The bitfield, bitfield1 functions as well are useful. These are
equivalents
of doing something like:
a=1234
a<4:2> => 4
a<4> => 1
a<<1 => 2468
a>>2 => 308
a&10 => 2
a|5 => 1239
a^2 => 1232 (xor)
Bet you didn't know you could do that ;-(
They're all documented, and have been there for as long as I can remember.
Oh, and as a side note, is there any way to create a small bitmap image
in
Cadence other than building it from single pixel rectangles on the
multi-colored "y0" - "y9" layers in the LSW? It takes a really long time
to
do this in SKILL.
Depends what you want to use the bitmap for. If it's for menu items, icons
etc in DFII, then hiStringToIcon and related functions would help. Some of
the
^dl (displayList) functions can be used too (don't get used much, but can
be
quite handy).
Andrew.
Frank
"Andrew Beckett" <andrewb@DELETETHISBITcadence.com> wrote in message
news:slo5svs70qi84kq9797vh3l7spk5dbuigr@4ax.com...
You could use the Integrators Toolkit (ITK-DB). This allows you to
write
standalone applications which access the database from C, and there is
some
(limited) support for invoking SKILL from this.
However, I suspect this is not what you want. You can't (for example)
link
in
some C code with DFII and call that from SKILL (we don't support that,
for
a variety of reasons - one being that it is rarely necessary). What you
can do
however is to write your computationally intensive tasks in a separate
program,
which you can then invoke using the ipc function calls (e.g.
ipcBeginProcess),
and then communicate to that external program either synchronously or
asynchronously. This can be quite an effective means of doing things
outside.
What sort of intensive operations are you talking about? SKILL can be
pretty
quick provided that you do things correctly (it's byte-code compiled,
and runs on a virtual machine).
Regards,
Andrew.
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:20:13 -0700, sampath <sdechu@micron.com> wrote:
Hi,
is there anyway that i can mix skill and c code,
I am looking for a way to do some runtime intensive operations in c
and
get the data into a skill code?
can somebody tell a solution?
sampath
--
Andrew Beckett
Senior Technical Leader
Custom IC Solutions
Cadence Design Systems Ltd
--
Andrew Beckett
Senior Technical Leader
Custom IC Solutions
Cadence Design Systems Ltd
Hi Frank,
I thought last night after appending about something else I meant to
mention,
which is that the underlying hash package was re-implemented by R&D for
the IC5033 release, and it solves some bugs and is much better performing
too.
I see the problem for the bitmap processing. One idea might be to create
all the
shapes once (on a fixed layer), and then you just need to go through them
all
and change the layer to the layer you want. Probably what I'd do is:
for(x 0 127
for(y 0 127
rect=dbCreateRect(cv "y0" list(x:y x+1:y+1)
rect~>myCoord=x:y
)
)
Then when you come to use these at some later point, you might want to
build
a hash table to speed lookup of each rectangle:
shapeLookup=makeTable('shapeLookup nil)
y0=car(exists(lpp cv~>layerPurposePairs lpp~>layerName=="y0")))
foreach(shape y0~>shapes
shapeLookup[shape~>myCoord]=shape
)
And then you can go through and do things like
shapeLookup[10:15]~>layerName="y2"
which would be much quicker than recreating each time.
Note the above code is not tested in anyway - just pseudo-skill code.
Andrew.
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:40:20 -0800, "gennari" <gennari@eecs.berkeley.edu
wrote:
Thanks Andrew.
I didn't know about the bitfield operators and wish I had known about
them
earlier. I just tried '&', '|', and '^', and similar operations which
didn't
work as intended and no one in my office knew how to do these types of
things.
The bitmap is different. It's for visualization of shapes overlaid on the
gometry. I'm working in lithography, so I would like to overlay images
such
as simulation results of printed shapes over the original layout shapes
in
Virtuoso. I'm also working on image/pattern matching, so I'm overlaying
approximate images with complex features (pixel accurate curves) onto the
layout. I could probably also do this by taking a screenshot of a layout
and
combining that with the image in a graphics program, but then I have to
do
everything by hand instead of using the power of SKILL. It works in
SKILL,
it's just so slow to create a 128x128 image with 16,384 rectangles on
various layers.
Frank
"Andrew Beckett" <andrewb@DELETETHISBITcadence.com> wrote in message
news:mqi7svcrtvvd7632t2eco8q7pbjb6bsj9a@4ax.com...
Frank,
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:16:02 -0800, "gennari"
gennari@eecs.berkeley.edu
wrote:
A few years ago I had to write a separate C++ program to get around
some
of
the limitations of SKILL, and then call that program from SKILL. In
particular, SKILL/Cadence crashed when I tried to create a hash table
of
several hundred thousand x/y points. Also, I couldn't find any way of
performing bit-level operations in SKILL such as bitshifts, bit
masking,
etc. In fact I think skill uses 32 bits in all integers, even when I
only
need to store an 8-bit value, and that's 4X memory overhead. I
eventually
had to implement the layout database and gometry query functions into
my
C++
program to aviod writing I/O files of many MB. Now the program is
independent of Cadence, but I wonder if all that work was really worth
it.
functions such as bor, band - which are equivalent to operators | and
&.
Also
bnand, bnor, bxor, bxnor (operators for each of these too).
leftshift, rightshift (<< and >>
The bitfield, bitfield1 functions as well are useful. These are
equivalents
of doing something like:
a=1234
a<4:2> => 4
a<4> => 1
a<<1 => 2468
a>>2 => 308
a&10 => 2
a|5 => 1239
a^2 => 1232 (xor)
Bet you didn't know you could do that ;-(
They're all documented, and have been there for as long as I can
remember.
Oh, and as a side note, is there any way to create a small bitmap
image
in
Cadence other than building it from single pixel rectangles on the
multi-colored "y0" - "y9" layers in the LSW? It takes a really long
time
to
do this in SKILL.
Depends what you want to use the bitmap for. If it's for menu items,
icons
etc in DFII, then hiStringToIcon and related functions would help. Some
of
the
^dl (displayList) functions can be used too (don't get used much, but
can
be
quite handy).
Andrew.
Frank
"Andrew Beckett" <andrewb@DELETETHISBITcadence.com> wrote in message
news:slo5svs70qi84kq9797vh3l7spk5dbuigr@4ax.com...
You could use the Integrators Toolkit (ITK-DB). This allows you to
write
standalone applications which access the database from C, and there
is
some
(limited) support for invoking SKILL from this.
However, I suspect this is not what you want. You can't (for
example)
link
in
some C code with DFII and call that from SKILL (we don't support
that,
for
a variety of reasons - one being that it is rarely necessary). What
you
can do
however is to write your computationally intensive tasks in a
separate
program,
which you can then invoke using the ipc function calls (e.g.
ipcBeginProcess),
and then communicate to that external program either synchronously
or
asynchronously. This can be quite an effective means of doing things
outside.
What sort of intensive operations are you talking about? SKILL can
be
pretty
quick provided that you do things correctly (it's byte-code
compiled,
and runs on a virtual machine).
Regards,
Andrew.
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:20:13 -0700, sampath <sdechu@micron.com
wrote:
Hi,
is there anyway that i can mix skill and c code,
I am looking for a way to do some runtime intensive operations in c
and
get the data into a skill code?
can somebody tell a solution?
sampath
--
Andrew Beckett
Senior Technical Leader
Custom IC Solutions
Cadence Design Systems Ltd
--
Andrew Beckett
Senior Technical Leader
Custom IC Solutions
Cadence Design Systems Ltd
--
Andrew Beckett
Senior Technical Leader
Custom IC Solutions
Cadence Design Systems Ltd