Simulating a circuit which is partly extracted and partly sc

P

praveen thomas

Guest
gurus,
In my mixed signal design, I use integrated inductors in my
analog part. Is it possible to extract inductors ?

If not,
I have a model for the inductors in schematic. So while simulating the
circuit in Cadence Hspice, can i have the other portion of my circuit
extracted while keeping the inductors in schematic itself.

if the above is possible, what are the steps to do it?

thanks for your patience,
K. Praveen
 
Hi,

In Assura 3.1 it is possible to extract Inductors
with the commands 'centerTapINDPackge' or 'spiralINDPackage'.

In Assura 2.0 or Diva it is also possible to work around it.
The example is for Assura 2.0

use the extractDevice command to extract your inductor e.g

;; differential inductor metal 8 tap
;; recognition layer diffInd8

extractDevice(
"ldiffm8"
diffInd8
m8IndOut( "PLUS" "MINUS" ) m8IndTap( "TAP" )
flagMalformed
cellView( "ldiffm8 ivpcell refLib" )
)

;; saveProperty( diffInd8 "trun" "5" )

For the parameters it is a little bit tricky and it works
only if you have fixed values for your model. Either you use
a model which can not vary the parameters, then
'cellView( "ldiffm8 ivpcell refLib" )' points to the inductor
cell and the extracted cell view will contain the 'ivpcell'
for the cell and in the netlist there will be the same model as
you us in the schematic with the default values for the parameters
or you save defined parameter value with the 'saveProperty' command.

It might be also possible to use 'measureParameter' and
'calculateParameter' parameter to get the exact inductor parameters you
want, for a model which can vary the parameters,
but this I believe is not that easy for an inductor.

In any case the inductor has to be recognized by the extraction
which means you have to have an extract command for the inductor
in you extract rule file.

Regards Bernd


praveen thomas wrote:
gurus,
In my mixed signal design, I use integrated inductors in my
analog part. Is it possible to extract inductors ?

If not,
I have a model for the inductors in schematic. So while simulating the
circuit in Cadence Hspice, can i have the other portion of my circuit
extracted while keeping the inductors in schematic itself.

if the above is possible, what are the steps to do it?

thanks for your patience,
K. Praveen
Click to expand...
 
yes it's possible to use the schematic models.

the problem is, your extractor won't recognize the
inductors and hence, won't create components for them
in the extracted view (they will be treated as 'wires').

what you should do then is create a cell for each inductor
with one layout view and one schematic view.
in the layout view put the layout, and in the schematic
view add one inductance component.

ok, next, on the layout view add a property to your cell
called ivCellType and set its value to "macro".
this will tell the extractor (provided you use diva)
not to flatten the cell. your extracted view will
know contain one cell for each inductor.

now what's gonna happen during netlisting : the netlister,
when it will encounter one of your inductor cells, will
try to find a alternate view for it. the only one it will find
will be the schematic view (be sure to have schematic
in your switch/stop view lists), in which it will find an
instance of an inductor, which can be netlisted.

i guess it should work this way.

stephane.

"praveen thomas" <praveen.thomas@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:80fbce88.0310300201.4faf6571@posting.google.com...
gurus,
In my mixed signal design, I use integrated inductors in my
analog part. Is it possible to extract inductors ?

If not,
I have a model for the inductors in schematic. So while simulating the
circuit in Cadence Hspice, can i have the other portion of my circuit
extracted while keeping the inductors in schematic itself.

if the above is possible, what are the steps to do it?

thanks for your patience,
K. Praveen
Click to expand...
 
hey thanks bernd for your kind reply.

but i don't have access to Assura, so i'm not fimilar with the
commands you give.
is there other way to do it in analog artist itself.

otherwise can i modify the netlist generated after extraction, so that
the part which discribes the inductors, replaced with that of the
schematic model i have for the inductor.

in that case what should be my steps.please guide me

thanks for your help,

K. Praveen.

Bernd Fischer <bernd.fischer@xignal.de> wrote in message news:<3FA0F4B5.30505@xignal.de>...
Hi,

In Assura 3.1 it is possible to extract Inductors
with the commands 'centerTapINDPackge' or 'spiralINDPackage'.

In Assura 2.0 or Diva it is also possible to work around it.
The example is for Assura 2.0

use the extractDevice command to extract your inductor e.g

;; differential inductor metal 8 tap
;; recognition layer diffInd8

extractDevice(
"ldiffm8"
diffInd8
m8IndOut( "PLUS" "MINUS" ) m8IndTap( "TAP" )
flagMalformed
cellView( "ldiffm8 ivpcell refLib" )
)

;; saveProperty( diffInd8 "trun" "5" )

For the parameters it is a little bit tricky and it works
only if you have fixed values for your model. Either you use
a model which can not vary the parameters, then
'cellView( "ldiffm8 ivpcell refLib" )' points to the inductor
cell and the extracted cell view will contain the 'ivpcell'
for the cell and in the netlist there will be the same model as
you us in the schematic with the default values for the parameters
or you save defined parameter value with the 'saveProperty' command.

It might be also possible to use 'measureParameter' and
'calculateParameter' parameter to get the exact inductor parameters you
want, for a model which can vary the parameters,
but this I believe is not that easy for an inductor.

In any case the inductor has to be recognized by the extraction
which means you have to have an extract command for the inductor
in you extract rule file.

Regards Bernd


praveen thomas wrote:
gurus,
In my mixed signal design, I use integrated inductors in my
analog part. Is it possible to extract inductors ?

If not,
I have a model for the inductors in schematic. So while simulating the
circuit in Cadence Hspice, can i have the other portion of my circuit
extracted while keeping the inductors in schematic itself.

if the above is possible, what are the steps to do it?

thanks for your patience,
K. Praveen
Click to expand...
 
Hi,

I believe Stephane's reply shows the better approach for your
requirements.
For details refer to the Diva docs for 'Macro Cell' extraction.

Regards Bernd

praveen thomas wrote:
hey thanks bernd for your kind reply.

but i don't have access to Assura, so i'm not fimilar with the
commands you give.
is there other way to do it in analog artist itself.

otherwise can i modify the netlist generated after extraction, so that
the part which discribes the inductors, replaced with that of the
schematic model i have for the inductor.

in that case what should be my steps.please guide me

thanks for your help,

K. Praveen.

Bernd Fischer <bernd.fischer@xignal.de> wrote in message news:<3FA0F4B5.30505@xignal.de>...

Hi,

In Assura 3.1 it is possible to extract Inductors
with the commands 'centerTapINDPackge' or 'spiralINDPackage'.

In Assura 2.0 or Diva it is also possible to work around it.
The example is for Assura 2.0

use the extractDevice command to extract your inductor e.g

;; differential inductor metal 8 tap
;; recognition layer diffInd8

extractDevice(
"ldiffm8"
diffInd8
m8IndOut( "PLUS" "MINUS" ) m8IndTap( "TAP" )
flagMalformed
cellView( "ldiffm8 ivpcell refLib" )
)

;; saveProperty( diffInd8 "trun" "5" )

For the parameters it is a little bit tricky and it works
only if you have fixed values for your model. Either you use
a model which can not vary the parameters, then
'cellView( "ldiffm8 ivpcell refLib" )' points to the inductor
cell and the extracted cell view will contain the 'ivpcell'
for the cell and in the netlist there will be the same model as
you us in the schematic with the default values for the parameters
or you save defined parameter value with the 'saveProperty' command.

It might be also possible to use 'measureParameter' and
'calculateParameter' parameter to get the exact inductor parameters you
want, for a model which can vary the parameters,
but this I believe is not that easy for an inductor.

In any case the inductor has to be recognized by the extraction
which means you have to have an extract command for the inductor
in you extract rule file.

Regards Bernd


praveen thomas wrote:

gurus,
In my mixed signal design, I use integrated inductors in my
analog part. Is it possible to extract inductors ?

If not,
I have a model for the inductors in schematic. So while simulating the
circuit in Cadence Hspice, can i have the other portion of my circuit
extracted while keeping the inductors in schematic itself.

if the above is possible, what are the steps to do it?

thanks for your patience,
K. Praveen
Click to expand...
 
hey thanks stephane and bernd for your kind guidance.

I'm trying stephane's way of do it.
I also came to know recently that using Hierarchy editor we can
simulate these type of combined shematic and extracted views of the
same design. for which we have create a view name called "config" for
the top level cell we want to simulate.


Thanks for your help,
K. Praveen.


"S. Badel" <stephane.badel@epfl.ch> wrote in message news:<3fa103a6$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>...
yes it's possible to use the schematic models.

the problem is, your extractor won't recognize the
inductors and hence, won't create components for them
in the extracted view (they will be treated as 'wires').

what you should do then is create a cell for each inductor
with one layout view and one schematic view.
in the layout view put the layout, and in the schematic
view add one inductance component.

ok, next, on the layout view add a property to your cell
called ivCellType and set its value to "macro".
this will tell the extractor (provided you use diva)
not to flatten the cell. your extracted view will
know contain one cell for each inductor.

now what's gonna happen during netlisting : the netlister,
when it will encounter one of your inductor cells, will
try to find a alternate view for it. the only one it will find
will be the schematic view (be sure to have schematic
in your switch/stop view lists), in which it will find an
instance of an inductor, which can be netlisted.

i guess it should work this way.

stephane.

"praveen thomas" <praveen.thomas@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:80fbce88.0310300201.4faf6571@posting.google.com...
gurus,
In my mixed signal design, I use integrated inductors in my
analog part. Is it possible to extract inductors ?

If not,
I have a model for the inductors in schematic. So while simulating the
circuit in Cadence Hspice, can i have the other portion of my circuit
extracted while keeping the inductors in schematic itself.

if the above is possible, what are the steps to do it?

thanks for your patience,
K. Praveen
Click to expand...
 
that's right, you create a config view and
you can choose which view will be used
for each cell, kinda override the switch/
stop view lists.
if you're doing this you'll have to select the
config view of the top cell as design
in analog artist.
anyway, this wouldn't solve your extracting
problem. as long as you don't have extract
rules for inductances, the extracter will
skip them. that would mean you could
only simulate schematic.

give us feedback, praveen.

stephane

"praveen thomas" <praveen.thomas@lycos.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
80fbce88.0310312203.40c49901@posting.google.com...
hey thanks stephane and bernd for your kind guidance.

I'm trying stephane's way of do it.
I also came to know recently that using Hierarchy editor we can
simulate these type of combined shematic and extracted views of the
same design. for which we have create a view name called "config" for
the top level cell we want to simulate.


Thanks for your help,
K. Praveen.


"S. Badel" <stephane.badel@epfl.ch> wrote in message
news:<3fa103a6$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>...
yes it's possible to use the schematic models.

the problem is, your extractor won't recognize the
inductors and hence, won't create components for them
in the extracted view (they will be treated as 'wires').

what you should do then is create a cell for each inductor
with one layout view and one schematic view.
in the layout view put the layout, and in the schematic
view add one inductance component.

ok, next, on the layout view add a property to your cell
called ivCellType and set its value to "macro".
this will tell the extractor (provided you use diva)
not to flatten the cell. your extracted view will
know contain one cell for each inductor.

now what's gonna happen during netlisting : the netlister,
when it will encounter one of your inductor cells, will
try to find a alternate view for it. the only one it will find
will be the schematic view (be sure to have schematic
in your switch/stop view lists), in which it will find an
instance of an inductor, which can be netlisted.

i guess it should work this way.

stephane.

"praveen thomas" <praveen.thomas@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:80fbce88.0310300201.4faf6571@posting.google.com...
gurus,
In my mixed signal design, I use integrated inductors in my
analog part. Is it possible to extract inductors ?

If not,
I have a model for the inductors in schematic. So while simulating the
circuit in Cadence Hspice, can i have the other portion of my circuit
extracted while keeping the inductors in schematic itself.

if the above is possible, what are the steps to do it?

thanks for your patience,
K. Praveen
Click to expand...
 
yes, without extraction rules, we can simulate only the extracted
other part of the circuits keeping inductor model in schematic.

another way is that, Extract with the inductor in the layout and
generate a netlist with analog artist, then use some inductor
modelling sofware like ASITIC or SISP and get a extracted netlist from
them only for the inductor.

then identify where in your analog artist netlist the inductor is,
replace that one with that of the special software netlist and run it.

i haven't tried this one, but i don't think this too will be that
accurate.


regards,
K. Praveen.


"Stéphane Badel" <stephane.badel@epfl.ch> wrote in message news:<3fa417ae$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>...
that's right, you create a config view and
you can choose which view will be used
for each cell, kinda override the switch/
stop view lists.
if you're doing this you'll have to select the
config view of the top cell as design
in analog artist.
anyway, this wouldn't solve your extracting
problem. as long as you don't have extract
rules for inductances, the extracter will
skip them. that would mean you could
only simulate schematic.

give us feedback, praveen.

stephane

"praveen thomas" <praveen.thomas@lycos.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
80fbce88.0310312203.40c49901@posting.google.com...
hey thanks stephane and bernd for your kind guidance.

I'm trying stephane's way of do it.
I also came to know recently that using Hierarchy editor we can
simulate these type of combined shematic and extracted views of the
same design. for which we have create a view name called "config" for
the top level cell we want to simulate.


Thanks for your help,
K. Praveen.


"S. Badel" <stephane.badel@epfl.ch> wrote in message
news:<3fa103a6$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>...
yes it's possible to use the schematic models.

the problem is, your extractor won't recognize the
inductors and hence, won't create components for them
in the extracted view (they will be treated as 'wires').

what you should do then is create a cell for each inductor
with one layout view and one schematic view.
in the layout view put the layout, and in the schematic
view add one inductance component.

ok, next, on the layout view add a property to your cell
called ivCellType and set its value to "macro".
this will tell the extractor (provided you use diva)
not to flatten the cell. your extracted view will
know contain one cell for each inductor.

now what's gonna happen during netlisting : the netlister,
when it will encounter one of your inductor cells, will
try to find a alternate view for it. the only one it will find
will be the schematic view (be sure to have schematic
in your switch/stop view lists), in which it will find an
instance of an inductor, which can be netlisted.

i guess it should work this way.

stephane.

"praveen thomas" <praveen.thomas@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:80fbce88.0310300201.4faf6571@posting.google.com...
gurus,
In my mixed signal design, I use integrated inductors in my
analog part. Is it possible to extract inductors ?

If not,
I have a model for the inductors in schematic. So while simulating the
circuit in Cadence Hspice, can i have the other portion of my circuit
extracted while keeping the inductors in schematic itself.

if the above is possible, what are the steps to do it?

thanks for your patience,
K. Praveen
Click to expand...
 
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