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server
Guest
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
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I yam what I yam - Popeye
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I yam what I yam - Popeye
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A
Anthony William Sloman
Guest
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 2:09:02 PM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
Anthony Watts gets paid to push climate change denial propaganda, paid for by the fossil carbon extraction industry.
They\'ve got an obvious interest in persuading people to keep on driving gasoline-powered cars - it\'s an appreciable chunk of their market - which does lead them to push silly claims about how dangerous electric cars might be.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
Anthony Watts gets paid to push climate change denial propaganda, paid for by the fossil carbon extraction industry.
They\'ve got an obvious interest in persuading people to keep on driving gasoline-powered cars - it\'s an appreciable chunk of their market - which does lead them to push silly claims about how dangerous electric cars might be.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
J
Jan Panteltje
Guest
On a sunny day (Fri, 18 Feb 2022 19:08:51 -0800) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<ion01hdrl7ff2on102gom6lhqanimapctt@4ax.com>:
That is why I use Lifepo4 type batteries when possible:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<ion01hdrl7ff2on102gom6lhqanimapctt@4ax.com>:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
That is why I use Lifepo4 type batteries when possible:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery
W
whit3rd
Guest
On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
It is video. It is fire. And, apparently, JL is scared of
a fire in mid-Atlantic. But, there\'s no known cause of the fire.
> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
It is video. It is fire. And, apparently, JL is scared of
a fire in mid-Atlantic. But, there\'s no known cause of the fire.
J
Jeff Layman
Guest
On 19/02/2022 03:08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
I didn\'t get past the first paragraph. Quote \"EV battery fires are
chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
burns itself out.\"
An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That\'s not enough to melt
steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
combustion is entirely different too.
--
Jeff
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
I didn\'t get past the first paragraph. Quote \"EV battery fires are
chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
burns itself out.\"
An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That\'s not enough to melt
steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
combustion is entirely different too.
--
Jeff
B
boB
Guest
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 05:08:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes and even Tesla is starting to usw LiFePo4 in some of their cars.
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 18 Feb 2022 19:08:51 -0800) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
ion01hdrl7ff2on102gom6lhqanimapctt@4ax.com>:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
That is why I use Lifepo4 type batteries when possible:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery
Yes and even Tesla is starting to usw LiFePo4 in some of their cars.
P
Phil Allison
Guest
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
===========================================
** Sweet dreams .....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/08/04/tesla-fire/
...... Phil
===========================================
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
** Sweet dreams .....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/08/04/tesla-fire/
...... Phil
L
Lasse Langwadt Christensen
Guest
lørdag den 19. februar 2022 kl. 04.09.02 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
I thought you weren\'t scared of anything?
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
I thought you weren\'t scared of anything?
R
Rick C
Guest
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:05:06 AM UTC-5, Jeff Layman wrote:
Adiabatic flame temperature (constant pressure) of common fuels
Gasoline Air 2138 °C
\"Burning gasoline has a temperature above 1500° E (945° C). Therefore, it can heat objects in the fire area above its ignition temperature. To prevent reignition after extinguishment, the agent should be applied for sufficient time to allow hot objects in the fire area to cool below the ignition temperature of the gasoline.\"
Sounds like a very dangerous fuel to use in passenger cars you carry your children in. Good thing we are getting rid of it. We can keep it in lawnmowers where it\'s safe.
https://www.google.com/search?q=lawnmower+fire&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjY1uTg-4v2AhXrq3IEHaA_DMIQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=923&bih=497&dpr=1.94
--
Rick C.
- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On 19/02/2022 03:08, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
I didn\'t get past the first paragraph. Quote \"EV battery fires are
chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
burns itself out.\"
An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That\'s not enough to melt
steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
combustion is entirely different too.
Adiabatic flame temperature (constant pressure) of common fuels
Gasoline Air 2138 °C
\"Burning gasoline has a temperature above 1500° E (945° C). Therefore, it can heat objects in the fire area above its ignition temperature. To prevent reignition after extinguishment, the agent should be applied for sufficient time to allow hot objects in the fire area to cool below the ignition temperature of the gasoline.\"
Sounds like a very dangerous fuel to use in passenger cars you carry your children in. Good thing we are getting rid of it. We can keep it in lawnmowers where it\'s safe.
https://www.google.com/search?q=lawnmower+fire&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjY1uTg-4v2AhXrq3IEHaA_DMIQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=923&bih=497&dpr=1.94
--
Rick C.
- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
R
Rick C
Guest
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:17:47 AM UTC-5, boB wrote:
It has nothing to do with fires. They are cheaper and don\'t use Cobalt, a material that is not so easy to come by. They still use nickel-cobalt-aluminum in the long range cars because it has a higher energy density. Neither battery chemistry has a problem with fire when compared to the highly dangerous gasoline powered vehicles.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pinto+fires&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjpoPaj_Yv2AhXxoHIEHdZiCGcQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=923&bih=497&dpr=1.94
--
Rick C.
+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 05:08:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 18 Feb 2022 19:08:51 -0800) it happened
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
ion01hdrl7ff2on10...@4ax.com>:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
That is why I use Lifepo4 type batteries when possible:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery
Yes and even Tesla is starting to usw LiFePo4 in some of their cars.
It has nothing to do with fires. They are cheaper and don\'t use Cobalt, a material that is not so easy to come by. They still use nickel-cobalt-aluminum in the long range cars because it has a higher energy density. Neither battery chemistry has a problem with fire when compared to the highly dangerous gasoline powered vehicles.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pinto+fires&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjpoPaj_Yv2AhXxoHIEHdZiCGcQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=923&bih=497&dpr=1.94
--
Rick C.
+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
E
Ed Lee
Guest
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 6:37:39 AM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
For gasoline cars, they only keep enough to drive in and out of the ship. For EV, they should use a small main battery for short distance driving and removable modules for long distance. Lithium batteries are safer with lower density.
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:17:47 AM UTC-5, boB wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 05:08:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 18 Feb 2022 19:08:51 -0800) it happened
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
ion01hdrl7ff2on10...@4ax.com>:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
That is why I use Lifepo4 type batteries when possible:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery
Yes and even Tesla is starting to usw LiFePo4 in some of their cars.
It has nothing to do with fires. They are cheaper and don\'t use Cobalt, a material that is not so easy to come by. They still use nickel-cobalt-aluminum in the long range cars because it has a higher energy density. Neither battery chemistry has a problem with fire when compared to the highly dangerous gasoline powered vehicles.
For gasoline cars, they only keep enough to drive in and out of the ship. For EV, they should use a small main battery for short distance driving and removable modules for long distance. Lithium batteries are safer with lower density.
S
server
Guest
On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 21:15:27 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:
Mid-Atlantic? Scared?
--
I yam what I yam - Popeye
wrote:
On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
It is video. It is fire. And, apparently, JL is scared of
a fire in mid-Atlantic. But, there\'s no known cause of the fire.
Mid-Atlantic? Scared?
--
I yam what I yam - Popeye
S
server
Guest
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:54 +0000, Jeff Layman
<jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and
get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out.
A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don\'t explode.
It\'s apparently not prudent to keep big lithium batteries indoors.
Google images for \'tesla fire\'. Often there\'s not much of the car
left.
--
I yam what I yam - Popeye
<jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 19/02/2022 03:08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
I didn\'t get past the first paragraph. Quote \"EV battery fires are
chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
burns itself out.\"
An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That\'s not enough to melt
steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
combustion is entirely different too.
What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and
get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out.
A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don\'t explode.
It\'s apparently not prudent to keep big lithium batteries indoors.
Google images for \'tesla fire\'. Often there\'s not much of the car
left.
--
I yam what I yam - Popeye
D
Don Y
Guest
On 2/18/2022 10:15 PM, whit3rd wrote:
<https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/19/europe/greece-ferry-fire-intl/index.html>
(I wonder if something the people ate was the cause of the fire?)
On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
It is video. It is fire. And, apparently, JL is scared of
a fire in mid-Atlantic. But, there\'s no known cause of the fire.
<https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/19/europe/greece-ferry-fire-intl/index.html>
(I wonder if something the people ate was the cause of the fire?)
R
Rick C
Guest
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 10:24:09 AM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
Yeah, they have that in common with gasoline fires. A big difference is you can put out a lithium-ion battery fire by spraying water on it. Gasoline floats on water and spreads like... wildfire. You have to use special foams and such. Very hard to put out and very dangerous. Gasoline fires make lithium-ion battery fires look like no big deal in comparison. They also happen much less often, \"traditional internal-combustion vehicles experience one fire for every 19 million miles traveled; for Teslas EVs, it\'s one fire for 205 million miles traveled.\" That\'s a factor of over 10 to 1!
We had an accident on the DC beltway with a gasoline fire that was so hot they feared it took the temper out of the bridge girders over it. Gasoline fires are so hot, they heat material above the ignition temperature of gasoline, so even when you put out the fire, it can reignite.
Noooo, gasoline fires are nothing to mess with. Very dangerous and hard to put out. That is what you were saying, right?
--
Rick C.
-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:54 +0000, Jeff Layman
jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 19/02/2022 03:08, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
I didn\'t get past the first paragraph. Quote \"EV battery fires are
chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
burns itself out.\"
An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That\'s not enough to melt
steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
combustion is entirely different too.
What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and
get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out.
A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don\'t explode.
It\'s apparently not prudent to keep big lithium batteries indoors.
Google images for \'tesla fire\'. Often there\'s not much of the car
left.
Yeah, they have that in common with gasoline fires. A big difference is you can put out a lithium-ion battery fire by spraying water on it. Gasoline floats on water and spreads like... wildfire. You have to use special foams and such. Very hard to put out and very dangerous. Gasoline fires make lithium-ion battery fires look like no big deal in comparison. They also happen much less often, \"traditional internal-combustion vehicles experience one fire for every 19 million miles traveled; for Teslas EVs, it\'s one fire for 205 million miles traveled.\" That\'s a factor of over 10 to 1!
We had an accident on the DC beltway with a gasoline fire that was so hot they feared it took the temper out of the bridge girders over it. Gasoline fires are so hot, they heat material above the ignition temperature of gasoline, so even when you put out the fire, it can reignite.
Noooo, gasoline fires are nothing to mess with. Very dangerous and hard to put out. That is what you were saying, right?
--
Rick C.
-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
E
Ed Lee
Guest
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:24:09 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
Very low power density per pound/kg.
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:54 +0000, Jeff Layman
jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 19/02/2022 03:08, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
I didn\'t get past the first paragraph. Quote \"EV battery fires are
chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
burns itself out.\"
An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That\'s not enough to melt
steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
combustion is entirely different too.
What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and
get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out.
A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don\'t explode.
Very low power density per pound/kg.
S
server
Guest
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 05:48:34 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
I\'m not, but I wouldn\'t like having my house or my children
incinerated. But I\'m interested in electrical things.
--
I yam what I yam - Popeye
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
lørdag den 19. februar 2022 kl. 04.09.02 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
I thought you weren\'t scared of anything?
I\'m not, but I wouldn\'t like having my house or my children
incinerated. But I\'m interested in electrical things.
--
I yam what I yam - Popeye
S
server
Guest
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:28:49 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39137893/cargo-ship-fire-fueled-by-ev-batteries/
Sounds expensive. Best thing to do is probably sink the ship.
--
I yam what I yam - Popeye
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/18/2022 10:15 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
It is video. It is fire. And, apparently, JL is scared of
a fire in mid-Atlantic. But, there\'s no known cause of the fire.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/19/europe/greece-ferry-fire-intl/index.html
(I wonder if something the people ate was the cause of the fire?)
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39137893/cargo-ship-fire-fueled-by-ev-batteries/
Sounds expensive. Best thing to do is probably sink the ship.
--
I yam what I yam - Popeye
S
server
Guest
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 07:56:42 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:
And the liquid electrolyte probably cools off small shorts until they
open, before they spread.
Aluminum caps are self-healing. Tantalums detonate.
--
I yam what I yam - Popeye
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:24:09 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:54 +0000, Jeff Layman
jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 19/02/2022 03:08, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
I didn\'t get past the first paragraph. Quote \"EV battery fires are
chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so
there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally
burns itself out.\"
An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet
of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are
around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That\'s not enough to melt
steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C,
which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of
combustion is entirely different too.
What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and
get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out.
A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don\'t explode.
Very low power density per pound/kg.
And the liquid electrolyte probably cools off small shorts until they
open, before they spread.
Aluminum caps are self-healing. Tantalums detonate.
--
I yam what I yam - Popeye
C
Cydrome Leader
Guest
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
german automotive electrical systems are garbage. Surprised more of the
transports don\'t catch on fire.
On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/
It is video. It is fire. And, apparently, JL is scared of
a fire in mid-Atlantic. But, there\'s no known cause of the fire.
german automotive electrical systems are garbage. Surprised more of the
transports don\'t catch on fire.