SAMs or Forest Mims style analog ic design book

[Sem Jansen]

I am thinking about learning how to do analog ic design at home.

I don't know what low cost software yet exists out there so this is an
early question about how to learn more about how analog ic chips are
designed.

I went to the local college book store and bought a few electrical
engineering textbooks on cmos ic design which I am reading and where I get
the concept of plls, classes of amplifiers, bandpass filters, etc but none
of those college textbooks are even close to the practical use hands on
SAMS and Forest Mims type which we all used to read a few decades ago for
all our hardware designs.

Do you know of a hands on technician type of analog ic design book?

 

[Jon Elson]

Sem Jansen wrote:

I am thinking about learning how to do analog ic design at home.

I don't know what low cost software yet exists out there so this is an
early question about how to learn more about how analog ic chips are
designed.

I went to the local college book store and bought a few electrical
engineering textbooks on cmos ic design which I am reading and where I get
the concept of plls, classes of amplifiers, bandpass filters, etc but none
of those college textbooks are even close to the practical use hands on
SAMS and Forest Mims type which we all used to read a few decades ago for
all our hardware designs.

Do you know of a hands on technician type of analog ic design book?

Well, the problem with this is you need IC design software. There is a
little bit of open-source software, mostly dating to the 1980's. Otherwise,
you are stuck with Cadence, starting at $50K per seat, with options can run
something like $250 K per YEAR.

Then, if you just want to play around with design and simulation, that can
be done, but otherwise you will need serious money to fab chips. MOSIS can
get you into a multi-project wafer for about $10 - 15K for a small design,
but you will have to jump through amazing hoops to get the fabs NDAs signed
to their satisfaction. Last time our group did this, it took SIX MONTHS to
get the legal documents worked out! And, you will HAVE to be running
Cadence, I think most of the fab's design kits are now for Cadence only.
Mentor still exests, but I think most designers have moved away from them.

Jon

 

[Sem Jansen]

said:

Well, the problem with this is you need IC design software. There is a
little bit of open-source software, mostly dating to the 1980's.

You are correct that the open source kind of software, with a book that
goes with it is what I'm looking for, since I'm familiar with Composer
schematic capture and HSpice simulation, and Virtuoso layout, all from the
Edge and Opus days and then, more recently, Caliber for DRC & LVS.

What I want, really, is just what anyone at home would want I would think
which is to have free analog design schematic capture software which just
does schematics and spice and then does basic layout of something no larger
than about 300 devices and then a quick basic drc and lvs if that also
exists.

I'm not going to actually put the GDSII on a shuttle - I just want to do it
for the fun and education and experience of designing a working small cmos
PLL or OpAmp or something of that small size.

I could write the book if it doesn't exist, so the software is mostly what
I need, I guess, if the book with software doesn't exist.

If the software is open source, then I could even include it maybe in a
cdrom with the book if I write it.

It's not hard to design an analog ic of a small size if you have those
tools but they cost too much for a home user.

I hadn't thought about the pdk problem until you mentioned it where MOSIS
might be the right way to go if they'll let me use it for free.

I wonder if MOSIS would want me to write a book for them for home users?

 

[Jon Elson]

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 13:04:10 -0500, Sem Jansen wrote:

What I want, really, is just what anyone at home would want I would
think which is to have free analog design schematic capture software
which just does schematics and spice and then does basic layout of
something no larger than about 300 devices and then a quick basic drc
and lvs if that also exists.

I'm not going to actually put the GDSII on a shuttle - I just want to do
it for the fun and education and experience of designing a working small
cmos PLL or OpAmp or something of that small size.

Years ago, when I was getting into this to work with a MUCH more
experienced guy who was actually going to be doing the IC design, and I
was going to be doing the overall systems design, was to load Mentor
through our university license, and work through a small tutorial.
I think I built a 2-input CMOS gate in schematic, then implemented the
several transistors and simulated it. It took me a couple days to get
that far. But, once I had done that, I was a lot more able to understand
the other guy's language.

I could write the book if it doesn't exist, so the software is mostly
what I need, I guess, if the book with software doesn't exist.

If the software is open source, then I could even include it maybe in a
cdrom with the book if I write it.

It's not hard to design an analog ic of a small size if you have those
tools but they cost too much for a home user.

I hadn't thought about the pdk problem until you mentioned it where
MOSIS might be the right way to go if they'll let me use it for free.

If you are at a university, I think you could do this at no cost, through
their university education program. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure NO WAY!
> I wonder if MOSIS would want me to write a book for them for home users?

NO! "Home users" just does not make any sense. MOSIS was set up to do
two things. One, get special-purpose ICs fabricated at reasonable cost,
and also to offer students the opportunity to have a thesis design
fabricated so they could see where they goofed. MOSIS was originally
funded largely by the Defense Department's DARPA program, but has largely
been downgraded to have to scratch for $ to keep open.

We get a few more chips made than the minimum, our chips are not really
all that small, we use old, much cheaper processes, and our chip batch
typically runs about $40K. Also, it typically now takes about six months
to get our chips back from the fab. I just don't see why MOSIS would
have any interest in people who can't afford to actually have the chips
fabbed.

Jon

 

[Chris Jones]

On 26/04/2019 02:40, Sem Jansen wrote:

I am thinking about learning how to do analog ic design at home.

I don't know what low cost software yet exists out there so this is an
early question about how to learn more about how analog ic chips are
designed.

I went to the local college book store and bought a few electrical
engineering textbooks on cmos ic design which I am reading and where I get
the concept of plls, classes of amplifiers, bandpass filters, etc but none
of those college textbooks are even close to the practical use hands on
SAMS and Forest Mims type which we all used to read a few decades ago for
all our hardware designs.

Do you know of a hands on technician type of analog ic design book?

There is quite a good book by Hans Camenzind, designer of the 555 timer.
It is free and available for download:
http://www.designinganalogchips.com/

Also there are some people starting to make chips at home these days:
http://sam.zeloof.xyz/first-ic/
Maybe he will even fabricate your design!

 

[C_Mechanic]

*
* On Thursday 25 Apr 2019 115 at 11:40 AM,
* Sem Jansen said to All,
* about SAMs or Forest Mims style analog ic design book ...
*

You might try mouser.com, they handle lots of analog devices and might have
a book or two ...


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[bitrex]

On 4/25/19 12:40 PM, Sem Jansen wrote:

I am thinking about learning how to do analog ic design at home.

I don't know what low cost software yet exists out there so this is an
early question about how to learn more about how analog ic chips are
designed.

I went to the local college book store and bought a few electrical
engineering textbooks on cmos ic design which I am reading and where I get
the concept of plls, classes of amplifiers, bandpass filters, etc but none
of those college textbooks are even close to the practical use hands on
SAMS and Forest Mims type which we all used to read a few decades ago for
all our hardware designs.

Do you know of a hands on technician type of analog ic design book?

<http://www.designinganalogchips.com/>

 

[Don Kuenz]

Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:

On 26/04/2019 02:40, Sem Jansen wrote:
I am thinking about learning how to do analog ic design at home.

I don't know what low cost software yet exists out there so this is an
early question about how to learn more about how analog ic chips are
designed.

I went to the local college book store and bought a few electrical
engineering textbooks on cmos ic design which I am reading and where I get
the concept of plls, classes of amplifiers, bandpass filters, etc but none
of those college textbooks are even close to the practical use hands on
SAMS and Forest Mims type which we all used to read a few decades ago for
all our hardware designs.

Do you know of a hands on technician type of analog ic design book?


There is quite a good book by Hans Camenzind, designer of the 555 timer.
It is free and available for download:
http://www.designinganalogchips.com/

Also there are some people starting to make chips at home these days:
http://sam.zeloof.xyz/first-ic/
Maybe he will even fabricate your design!

Good information. It looks perfect for DIY.

Thank you, 73,

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.