Safety of microwave cooking

[klem kedidelhopper]

I was speaking to a friend the other day about microwave cooking and
he told me that he was under the impression that during microwave
heating of food the molecular structure is changed to a state which
may be either carcinogenic or somehow otherwise unhealthful for human
consumption. I understand that molecules are vibrated during microwave
exposure and I think that I've heard that if you heat something until
it is a hard unrecognizable crunchy lump then maybe that could be
true. But for general reheating of food or beverages is there a
concern?
I will never trust manufacturers who's agendas are purely financially
driven to tell me the truth and I still don't believe that irradiating
oneself with a blue tooth headset for hours on end or even using a
cell phone for that matter can ever be in the least bit
healthful...Lenny

 

[Jeffrey D Angus]

klem kedidelhopper wrote:

I was speaking to a friend the other day about microwave cooking and
he told me that he was under the impression that during microwave
heating of food the molecular structure is changed to a state which
may be either carcinogenic or somehow otherwise unhealthful for human
consumption.

You're probably more at risk from the hormones and other
"enhancements" they put in the food chain than you are from
microwave cooking.

Jeff


--
“Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity.”
Frank Leahy, Head coach, Notre Dame 1941-1954

http://www.stay-connect.com

 

[[SMF]]

On 4/13/2010 9:47 AM, klem kedidelhopper wrote:

I was speaking to a friend the other day about microwave cooking and
he told me that he was under the impression that during microwave
heating of food the molecular structure is changed to a state which
may be either carcinogenic or somehow otherwise unhealthful for human
consumption. I understand that molecules are vibrated during microwave
exposure and I think that I've heard that if you heat something until
it is a hard unrecognizable crunchy lump then maybe that could be
true. But for general reheating of food or beverages is there a
concern?

No.

I will never trust manufacturers who's agendas are purely financially
driven to tell me the truth and I still don't believe that irradiating
oneself with a blue tooth headset for hours on end or even using a
cell phone for that matter can ever be in the least bit
healthful...Lenny

You are exposed to many times the radiation walking in the sun as you
are to *ANY* low output source of EM radiation. Don't like radiation?
Stop eating banana's. Stop laying next to your spouse. Both put off
radiation.


I guess that separate beds thing has a benefit, after all...

 

[GregS]

In article <hq20uo01hmq@news4.newsguy.com>, Jeffrey D Angus <jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote:

klem kedidelhopper wrote:
I was speaking to a friend the other day about microwave cooking and
he told me that he was under the impression that during microwave
heating of food the molecular structure is changed to a state which
may be either carcinogenic or somehow otherwise unhealthful for human
consumption.

You're probably more at risk from the hormones and other
"enhancements" they put in the food chain than you are from
microwave cooking.

As well as heating plastics.

greg

 

[GregS]

In article <hq21n2$8lk$1@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS) wrote:

In article <hq20uo01hmq@news4.newsguy.com>, Jeffrey D Angus
jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote:
klem kedidelhopper wrote:
I was speaking to a friend the other day about microwave cooking and
he told me that he was under the impression that during microwave
heating of food the molecular structure is changed to a state which
may be either carcinogenic or somehow otherwise unhealthful for human
consumption.

You're probably more at risk from the hormones and other
"enhancements" they put in the food chain than you are from
microwave cooking.


As well as heating plastics.

I still use my mothers Corningware set. You can't buy them like that anymore.
Glass top and ceramic bottom, with the lips for attaching the handle.

I also have a larger ceramic top and bottom.

If you cook hot dogs, use a ceramic butter tray. Holds one dog.
The tray insures even steam heating.

greg

 

[Adrian C]

On 13/04/2010 15:47, klem kedidelhopper wrote:

I was speaking to a friend the other day about microwave cooking and
he told me that he was under the impression that during microwave
heating of food the molecular structure is changed to a state which
may be either carcinogenic or somehow otherwise unhealthful for human
consumption.

That argument is put forward for gamma irradiation of food, and has some
following there. If bombarding me with gamma makes me grow two heads,
there is no telling what it will do to food.

However this is different. Yes, microwaves cook by molecularly exciting
water, which then heats the food by conduction.

Making water get hot does not release poisons to my knowledge.

However, if there are materials in there that are non-food, and they get
overheated, or if you burn your food and create carbon (like when too
long on the camp fire) then that is not too healthy to eat.

And equally if the food is unevenly heated, and parts remain still
frozen, you can bet that that will cause some stomach upset.

Unless it's about burning food to charcoal, your friend has misheard
something and is wrong.

Regarding RF, have irrational phobias by all means if they make you feel
better. Sure too much exposure IS harmful, but there are SAR limits that
are waaaaay below that. There is also the inverse square law of physics
and our logarithmic relationships to sensory stimulus.

Trying to reason with reference to the 'evils of corporate concerns' is
frankly a smoke screen to something else that you haven't yet
understood, and is not really a sensible starting point to a serious
debate about product safety.

--
Adrian C

 

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 07:47:52 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
<captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote:

I was speaking to a friend the other day about microwave cooking and
he told me that he was under the impression that during microwave
heating of food the molecular structure is changed to a state which
may be either carcinogenic or somehow otherwise unhealthful for human
consumption. I understand that molecules are vibrated during microwave
exposure and I think that I've heard that if you heat something until
it is a hard unrecognizable crunchy lump then maybe that could be
true. But for general reheating of food or beverages is there a
concern?
I will never trust manufacturers who's agendas are purely financially
driven to tell me the truth and I still don't believe that irradiating
oneself with a blue tooth headset for hours on end or even using a
cell phone for that matter can ever be in the least bit
healthful...Lenny
Tell your friend to do a little research on the differences between

ionizing and non-ionizing radiation. Also, studying the molecular
changes caused by conventional cooking will give many more reasons for
baseless fears.

The fact is, humanoids have been on Earth for over 4 million years.
The best accepted evidence for the earliest use of fire is 790,000
years ago. I'd say that in the 40,000 generations that humans have
been cooking their food we've pretty well adapted to whatever changes
cooking causes.

You should also point out to your friend the health problems
associated with living in a constant state of fear.

PlainBill

 

[GregS]

In article <c6a9s51tt743ijshqj68kkjccpefk1c5vs@4ax.com>, PlainBill47@yahoo.com wrote:

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 07:47:52 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote:

I was speaking to a friend the other day about microwave cooking and
he told me that he was under the impression that during microwave
heating of food the molecular structure is changed to a state which
may be either carcinogenic or somehow otherwise unhealthful for human
consumption. I understand that molecules are vibrated during microwave
exposure and I think that I've heard that if you heat something until
it is a hard unrecognizable crunchy lump then maybe that could be
true. But for general reheating of food or beverages is there a
concern?
I will never trust manufacturers who's agendas are purely financially
driven to tell me the truth and I still don't believe that irradiating
oneself with a blue tooth headset for hours on end or even using a
cell phone for that matter can ever be in the least bit
healthful...Lenny
Tell your friend to do a little research on the differences between
ionizing and non-ionizing radiation. Also, studying the molecular
changes caused by conventional cooking will give many more reasons for
baseless fears.

The fact is, humanoids have been on Earth for over 4 million years.
The best accepted evidence for the earliest use of fire is 790,000
years ago. I'd say that in the 40,000 generations that humans have
been cooking their food we've pretty well adapted to whatever changes
cooking causes.

You should also point out to your friend the health problems
associated with living in a constant state of fear.

Heating food takes away its qualities for nutrition. Sometime things like
potatoes need to be cooked to make it digestable.

Heating food can make it taste damm good.
It usually makes eating dead animal meat more tolerable.


greg

 

[William Sommerwerck]

I was speaking to a friend the other day about microwave
cooking and he told me that he was under the impression
that during microwave heating of food the molecular structure
is changed to a state which may be either carcinogenic or
somehow otherwise unhealthful for human consumption.

This is true of any process that heats food!

I understand that molecules are vibrated during microwave
exposure...

As they are when heated in a regular oven. Or home on the range.

and I think that I've heard that if you heat something until
it is a hard unrecognizable crunchy lump then maybe that
could be true. But for general reheating of food or beverages
is there a concern?

Probably not. Microwave heating (you can't very well call it "cooking") has
been around for 60 years. If there were a risk, it probably would have been
discovered by now.

I particularly like the way microwave ovens handle bacon.

 

[William R. Walsh]

Hi!

I think that I've heard that if you heat something until it is a hard
unrecognizable crunchy lump then maybe that could be
true.

I believe that is correct, but you can burn food to that point with
any sort of cooking device. Burnt food is not good, but I don't know
that it will do much harm.

But for general reheating of food or beverages is there a
concern?

No. The FAQ for this group discusses it further.

I will never trust manufacturers who's agendas are purely financially
driven to tell me the truth

That's somewhat true, but one must consider the inverse: a company
that kills or injures all of its customers soon doesn't have any! And
those that do, whether intentionally or not, get found out at some
point.

and I still don't believe that irradiating oneself with a blue tooth
headset for hours on end or even using a cell phone for that
matter can ever be in the least bit healthful...Lenny

The last I knew, the effects of this were not fully understood
(although they have been researched). It has been shown that there is
some reaction (an excitation, if memory serves) of tissue in close
proximity to an active cellular telephone or similar device. What this
may or may not be doing at the same time is unclear.

I don't do the whole cell phone thing just because of the rudeness
factor--and the fact that it's little more than an electronic leash.

I know from having used a communications radio with an earphone that I
become really "weirded out" by not hearing ambient sounds clearly out
of one ear...so much so that I could not use the radio. So there's
that, and there's also my opinion that there isn't a Bluetooth earset
in the world that doesn't make one look like a dork.

William

 

[gonzo]

"klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f2af3826-5e5a-4509-9252-1a3677f37385@r28g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...

I was speaking to a friend the other day about microwave cooking and
he told me that he was under the impression that during microwave
heating of food the molecular structure is changed to a state which
may be either carcinogenic or somehow otherwise unhealthful for human
consumption. I understand that molecules are vibrated during microwave
exposure and I think that I've heard that if you heat something until
it is a hard unrecognizable crunchy lump then maybe that could be
true. But for general reheating of food or beverages is there a
concern?
I will never trust manufacturers who's agendas are purely financially
driven to tell me the truth and I still don't believe that irradiating
oneself with a blue tooth headset for hours on end or even using a
cell phone for that matter can ever be in the least bit
healthful...Lenny

http://www.relfe.com/microwave.html

 

[Jeffrey D Angus]

gonzo wrote:

http://www.relfe.com/microwave.html

"Standing in front of a microwave is also highly damaging to
your health. Perhaps you have already felt this intuitively?
We know that cells explode in the microwave - just fry an
egg in your microwave. We are made up of trillions of cells.
So work out how many are getting damaged if you stand in
front of your microwave for 5-10 minutes."

Pfffft. That was the sound of your credibility going up in
smoke.

You obviously don't want to hear it, so I'm not going to waste
my time explaining how a microwave oven works.

Jeff




--
“Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity.”
Frank Leahy, Head coach, Notre Dame 1941-1954

http://www.stay-connect.com

 

[Arfa Daily]

<snip>

Probably not. Microwave heating (you can't very well call it "cooking")
has
been around for 60 years. If there were a risk, it probably would have
been
discovered by now.

Why can't you call it "cooking" ? If the device changes the structure of the
food in some way by the process of heating it, then I would call that
cooking. I make scrambled eggs in the microwave. When I take them out, they
have changed from raw eggs to cooked eggs, exactly the same as if they had
been cooked in a pan ... Canned soup is a different matter. That has
already been cooked at the factory, and in that case, the microwave oven
does not change the structure any further. It *does* merely heat it.

I particularly like the way microwave ovens handle bacon.

So, how's that then ? Is your bacon still raw when it comes out ? Merely
heated ?

Arfa

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Standing in front of a microwave is also highly damaging to
your health. Perhaps you have already felt this intuitively?
We know that cells explode in the microwave -- just fry an
egg in your microwave. We are made up of trillions of cells.
So work out how many are getting damaged if you stand in
front of your microwave for 5-10 minutes."

This shows a complete non-understanding of how a microwave oven heats
food -- or why an egg explodes.

In case anyone is wondering... All microwave ovens have a perforated metal
window that reflects microwaves back into the cavity. Virtually no microwave
energy leaks out.

 

[Arfa Daily]

<snip>

Regarding RF, have irrational phobias by all means if they make you feel
better. Sure too much exposure IS harmful, but there are SAR limits that
are waaaaay below that. There is also the inverse square law of physics
and our logarithmic relationships to sensory stimulus.

This is an interesting one, Adrian. My father-in-law worked for many years
for a government wireless department, which included overseas postings. He
worked in the proximity of moderately high powered HF transmitters - but not
so close to the antenna systems that you would imagine that the radiated RF
could be any kind of problem.

Over the years that I knew him, I lost count of the number of his colleagues
that literally dropped dead from heart attacks. No warnings. No previously
known health problems. Sadly, my father-in-law also finally succumbed to the
same fate. He was only in his mid fifties, reasonably trim and fit, didn't
drink and didn't smoke. There had been no warnings prior to the event, that
anything was wrong. He simply dropped down on the golf course from a massive
coronary, and died a few hours later in hospital, after suffering two more.

Rationally, as a person of science and a licensed ham radio operator who has
a fairly good working understanding of RF and its dangers, I should be
saying that it is pure coincidence, but I've always had this nagging doubt
that maybe *prolongued* exposure to even weak field strengths, even at the
relatively low frequencies of the HF bands, may do more physiological damage
than we believe ...

Arfa

Trying to reason with reference to the 'evils of corporate concerns' is
frankly a smoke screen to something else that you haven't yet understood,
and is not really a sensible starting point to a serious debate about
product safety.

--
Adrian C

 

[William Sommerwerck]

Probably not. Microwave heating (you can't very well call it
"cooking") has been around for 60 years. If there were a risk,
it probably would have been discovered by now.

Why can't you call it "cooking"? If the device changes the
structure of the food in some way by the process of heating it,
then I would call that cooking.

Try making a cake sometime in a microwave, and you'll understand.

I make scrambled eggs in the microwave. When I take them out,
they have changed from raw eggs to cooked eggs, exactly the
same as if they had been cooked in a pan...

Most foods are "cooked" by the external application of heat (either
conduction or convection). A microwave oven heats the food directly, which
produces rather different results.

The one thing microwaves do very well is to denature protein (that is,
coagulate it). This is why scrambled eggs come out okay. It's also the
reason your eyes have to be protected from microwaves.

I particularly like the way microwave ovens handle bacon.

So, how's that, then? Is your bacon still raw when it comes out?
Merely heated?

Mostly the latter. I like the way you can easily choose the amount of
"doneness", and it's almost impossible to burn the bacon.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 07:47:52 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
<captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote:

I was speaking to a friend the other day about microwave cooking and
he told me that he was under the impression that during microwave
heating of food the molecular structure is changed to a state which
may be either carcinogenic or somehow otherwise unhealthful for human
consumption.

It's fairly easy to prove that something is dangerous and unhealthy.
It's almost impossible to prove that something is *NOT* dangerous and
unhealthy. For example, walking down the road is potentially
dangerous because you might stumble and fall. Plenty of slip and fall
statistics are available to demonstrate the point. However, just try
to prove that walking down the road is perfectly safe. You can't
because someone will invariably suggest that this exposes you to
various things falling from the sky, sunburn, and automobile attack.
There's ALWAYS a way to make something unsafe, thus making it
impossible to prove that anything is really *NOT* dangerous and
unhealthy.

You might also notice that food safety is a question of degree.
Drinking water is safe in reasonable quantity, but drinking too much
water is potentially a problem. Same with many foods. Well, that
also applies to microwave, barbeque, or nuclear cooking. All of these
are safe in small quantities, but if you microwave everything you eat,
you're going to have a problem.

I understand that molecules are vibrated during microwave
exposure and I think that I've heard that if you heat something until
it is a hard unrecognizable crunchy lump then maybe that could be
true. But for general reheating of food or beverages is there a
concern?

That's not a very good description of how a microwave oven works. I'm
lazy and don't want to get into that. Suffice to say that you will
get the same hard unrecognizable crunchy lump no matter what method
you use to heat the food.

I will never trust manufacturers who's agendas are purely financially
driven to tell me the truth

I have the same problem with online medicine. The hype is everywhere.
My method is similar to yours. If those offering the advice have a
financial or political agenda, I ignore it. That means that medical
advice from someone selling a procedure, pill, treatment, or religion,
is probably biased in some way. The problem is that this doesn't
leave much in the way of proper research. Do you trust universities
and institutes to get it right when they are funded by the same
manufacturers and groups that have a vested interest in producing
their favorite result? All that's left is the government, which
usually outsources their studies to the same universities and
institutes. That essentially leave nobody worth trusting.

and I still don't believe that irradiating
oneself with a blue tooth headset for hours on end or even using a
cell phone for that matter can ever be in the least bit
healthful...Lenny

Well, please look at this graph:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/brain-CNS-cancer.jpg>
It's the incidence of new brain and central nervous system cancers
between 1975 and 2006 taken in 5 metro areas. Note that it's almost
flat. During the same time period, the use of cell phones, BlueGoof
headsets, and wireless devices have increased quite dramatically. One
would expect to see a rise in the incidence of brain and CNS cancers
if the stories are to be believed. Interestingly, I see a decrease in
the incidence over most of the time period (mostly caused by improved
early diagnosis through PET scans).

As before, it's impossible to prove the Bluetooth, cellular, Wi-Fi,
and other forms for personal irradiation are safe. It's easy enough
to prove that they're not safe, but somehow, the statistics don't seem
to follow.

Incidentally, age has a big effect in braind and CNS cancers. See:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/brain-CNS-cancer-by-age-1992-2006.jpg>
which is the incidence of brain and CNS cancers from 1992 to 2006 by
age. Note that the overwhelming number of cancers are in older people
starting at about age 59. Interestingly, it's the younger age group
that spends all day yacking on the cell phone. If RF caused cancer,
one would expect it to show a much higher incidence rate among the
heavy users.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 02:01:21 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Over the years that I knew him, I lost count of the number of his colleagues
that literally dropped dead from heart attacks. No warnings. No previously
known health problems. Sadly, my father-in-law also finally succumbed to the
same fate. He was only in his mid fifties, reasonably trim and fit, didn't
drink and didn't smoke. There had been no warnings prior to the event, that
anything was wrong. He simply dropped down on the golf course from a massive
coronary, and died a few hours later in hospital, after suffering two more.

Well, you can add one more person to the collection. I didn't drop
dead, but came close. In 2002, I narrowly missed having a heart
attack by having a triple bypass operation. I've been exposed to all
manner of RF for the previous 45 years. I don't drink or smoke. Other
than kidney stones, I had no previous maladies. Sounds like a
parallel to your father-in-law.

However, we both left out some details. My parents and family have a
history of cardiac issues. Those that died a natural death invariably
died from a stroke, heart attack, or similar cause. The family also
has a history of high blood pressure, which is largely invisible to
the casual observer. If I dropped dead today from a stroke or
coronary infraction, would you blame my genetics or my exposure to RF?

Moral: Pick you parents wisely.

Rationally, as a person of science and a licensed ham radio operator who has
a fairly good working understanding of RF and its dangers, I should be
saying that it is pure coincidence, but I've always had this nagging doubt
that maybe *prolongued* exposure to even weak field strengths, even at the
relatively low frequencies of the HF bands, may do more physiological damage
than we believe ...

Yeah, it's something to worry about. Of the approx 8 members of our
local radio club that have died in the last 10 years, none died from
coronary problems. The cause was usually cancer, emphysema, medical
screwups, diabetes, or some nasty disease. Almost everyone had a
heart condition, a dictated by todays fairly low blood pressure
standards.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

GregS wrote:

Heating food can make it taste damm good.
It usually makes eating dead animal meat more tolerable.

You prefer your meat still be alive?


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

klem kedidelhopper wrote:

On Apr 13, 10:59 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
GregS wrote:

Heating food can make it taste damm good.
It usually makes eating dead animal meat more tolerable.

You prefer your meat still be alive?

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

My original question concerned the food however since we're on the
subject, it is a well known fact that living tissue undergoes
biological changes, even if minute changes when exposed to RF energy.
This especially holds true for microwave. Several years ago beat
patrolmen used VHF portable radios before they came equipped with
external microphones. These kluges were big and heavy, had six watt
finals and were nicknamed "bricks". You held them up to the side of
your face to communicate. Beat cops used these for years. I believe
that it was a city in Connecticut where a high incidence of eye
problems were noticed among this group of patients. The only logical
common denominator was the RF exposure. Perhaps this is a matter of
semantics but getting back to my original comment, aren't "biological
changes" the very definition of cancer? Lenny

I've never seen a radio like that. The only 'brick' I'm familiar
with is the old Motorola the military & railroads used. They used
transistors and miniature 1.5 volt tubes. They weighed several pounds.
It had a handheld microphone on a short coiled cord, and snapped onto
the handle of the radio. It would take a very heavy battery to get
through an eight hour shift with a six watt unit.

Cancer is the uncontrolled growth of cells. 'Biological Change' is a
vague definition.


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'