Safe ground hookup

notbob · Apr 26, 2012

I wanna mess around with some LOPTs from CRT monitors, but wanted a
reliable chicken stick (ground hook) to discharge caps, etc, first. I
bought some 10awg sgl strand wire, a clamp, and a 18" L x 1" dia
concrete stake. The hardware store had some 10ft long 1/2"-3/4" dia
copper rod, but wouldn't cut it and 10 ft was waaay too expensive.

Is this 18" steel (iron?) concrete stake good enough? Will rebar work?
How long, minimum, for good ground stake?

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!

Jasen Betts · Apr 26, 2012

On 2012-04-26, notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote:

I wanna mess around with some LOPTs from CRT monitors, but wanted a
reliable chicken stick (ground hook) to discharge caps, etc, first. I
bought some 10awg sgl strand wire, a clamp, and a 18" L x 1" dia
concrete stake. The hardware store had some 10ft long 1/2"-3/4" dia
copper rod, but wouldn't cut it and 10 ft was waaay too expensive.

Is this 18" steel (iron?) concrete stake good enough? Will rebar work?
How long, minimum, for good ground stake?

you don't need a ground stake to discharge capacitors.

--
ââ 100% natural

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---

John G · Apr 26, 2012

notbob laid this down on his screen :

I wanna mess around with some LOPTs from CRT monitors, but wanted a
reliable chicken stick (ground hook) to discharge caps, etc, first. I
bought some 10awg sgl strand wire, a clamp, and a 18" L x 1" dia
concrete stake. The hardware store had some 10ft long 1/2"-3/4" dia
copper rod, but wouldn't cut it and 10 ft was waaay too expensive.

Is this 18" steel (iron?) concrete stake good enough? Will rebar work?
How long, minimum, for good ground stake?

nb

If you think the gauge of wire is significant or the size of the stake
in this question you are so far behind in knowledge that you should not
go near CRT monitors till you have done Electronics 101,102& 103.
A little knowledge is VERY dangerous at 25 THOUSAND VOLTS.

--
John G

notbob · Apr 26, 2012

On 2012-04-26, John G <greentest@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

in this question you are so far behind in knowledge that you should not
go near CRT monitors till you have done Electronics 101,102& 103.

BTDT

A little knowledge is VERY dangerous at 25 THOUSAND VOLTS.

Yes, I know. It's why I'm asking advice, which you seem woefully
lacking. Thanks for nothing.

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!

Peter Bennett · Apr 26, 2012

On 26 Apr 2012 00:32:33 GMT, notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote:

I wanna mess around with some LOPTs from CRT monitors, but wanted a
reliable chicken stick (ground hook) to discharge caps, etc, first. I
bought some 10awg sgl strand wire, a clamp, and a 18" L x 1" dia
concrete stake. The hardware store had some 10ft long 1/2"-3/4" dia
copper rod, but wouldn't cut it and 10 ft was waaay too expensive.

Is this 18" steel (iron?) concrete stake good enough? Will rebar work?
How long, minimum, for good ground stake?

nb

I would connect the ground wire to the circuit ground, or to the
ground terminal in an AC outlet. I wouldn't trust an independent
buried ground rod for this application.

You want to be sure that your "chicken stick" will indeed connect the
hot side of the capacitors to their ground side, so that the
capacitors are discharged

--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb (at) telus.net
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

Tom Biasi · Apr 26, 2012

On 4/26/2012 7:31 AM, notbob wrote:

On 2012-04-26, John G<greentest@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

in this question you are so far behind in knowledge that you should not
go near CRT monitors till you have done Electronics 101,102& 103.
BTDT

A little knowledge is VERY dangerous at 25 THOUSAND VOLTS.
Yes, I know. It's why I'm asking advice, which you seem woefully
lacking. Thanks for nothing.

nb

Not good to discharge large capacitors abruptly. Bleed them them off

with a resistor connected to clips.

Michael A. Terrell · Apr 26, 2012

Tom Biasi wrote:

On 4/26/2012 7:31 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2012-04-26, John G<greentest@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

in this question you are so far behind in knowledge that you should not
go near CRT monitors till you have done Electronics 101,102& 103.
BTDT

A little knowledge is VERY dangerous at 25 THOUSAND VOLTS.
Yes, I know. It's why I'm asking advice, which you seem woefully
lacking. Thanks for nothing.

nb

Not good to discharge large capacitors abruptly. Bleed them them off
with a resistor connected to clips.

Most resistors aren't rated for 25 KV. They will arc over.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

John G · Apr 27, 2012

notbob explained :

On 2012-04-26, John G <greentest@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

in this question you are so far behind in knowledge that you should not
go near CRT monitors till you have done Electronics 101,102& 103.

BTDT

A little knowledge is VERY dangerous at 25 THOUSAND VOLTS.

Yes, I know. It's why I'm asking advice, which you seem woefully
lacking. Thanks for nothing.

nb

I did give you the advice you need.

I am not going to give you any encouragement and then be held
responsible for aiding and abetting your DEATH. :-?

--
John G

Tom Biasi · Apr 28, 2012

On 4/26/2012 4:19 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Tom Biasi wrote:
On 4/26/2012 7:31 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2012-04-26, John G<greentest@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

in this question you are so far behind in knowledge that you should not
go near CRT monitors till you have done Electronics 101,102& 103.
BTDT

A little knowledge is VERY dangerous at 25 THOUSAND VOLTS.
Yes, I know. It's why I'm asking advice, which you seem woefully
lacking. Thanks for nothing.

nb

Not good to discharge large capacitors abruptly. Bleed them them off
with a resistor connected to clips.

Most resistors aren't rated for 25 KV. They will arc over.
Yes, he is working in HV area but I didn't get the impression that the

caps were HV. If so, you are correct.

Tom

notbob · Apr 28, 2012

On 2012-04-28, Tom Biasi <tombiasi@optonline.net> wrote:

Most resistors aren't rated for 25 KV. They will arc over.
Yes, he is working in HV area but I didn't get the impression that the
caps were HV. If so, you are correct.

I once worked at a govt lab assembling and helping test 600KV Marx
generators. We all gotta lotta HV safety training, as any of those
60KV caps we used could kill you dead from a spontaneous proximity air
discharge. I was mostly a mech tech, then, but payed attention.
Ground hooks were everywhere. In fact, the entire test stand was
fenced with multiple redundant safety interlocks, tag-outs, etc. So,
I know what NOT to do.

What I don't know, and am trying to learn, is how to build up a like
super-safe HV experimenting environment. I hafta believe I can do
better than the simple ground wire circuits in my home. I know damn
well that govt lab test stand wasn't grounded thru the ground plug in
a 110V wall socket!

I've noticed some replies mention bleeder circuits, which is good to
know, but I'm looking for a circuit and grounding specifics that will
provide an instant safe grounding system for any sized cap or whatever
I may encounter hacking around with benchtop marx gens, tesla coils,
flyback gens, etc. I find all kindsa webpages on HV projects like
jacobs ladder, tesla coils, etc, but none of them mention much about
safety grounding systems, like it's some sorta inate knowledge
everyone is born with. I don't think so!

Yes, I don't know a lot of electical/electronics theory. It is not my
primary discipline, but I'm having a lotta fun learning about it, now.
What I do have is a lot of practical experience. From the HV I
mentioned to setup/tuning of HV RF networks for plasma etching systems
to troubleshooting circuits through entire $10M plasma etch/dep fab
equipment. I know how to use a DMM and read a schemo and right now
I'm assembling my first 4 band SDF radio receiver kit with SMT
components. Big fun with itty-bitty components! In the pursuit of
furthering my meagar theory knowledge, I now need specifics and
information, not criticism telling me what I don't know. Hell, that
Grand Canyon will never be filled! Anyway, all advice appreciated.

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!
"Avenge me!" --Bill Burr

Jasen Betts · Apr 28, 2012

On 2012-04-28, notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote:

On 2012-04-28, Tom Biasi <tombiasi@optonline.net> wrote:

Most resistors aren't rated for 25 KV. They will arc over.
Yes, he is working in HV area but I didn't get the impression that the
caps were HV. If so, you are correct.

I once worked at a govt lab assembling and helping test 600KV Marx
generators. We all gotta lotta HV safety training, as any of those
60KV caps we used could kill you dead from a spontaneous proximity air
discharge. I was mostly a mech tech, then, but payed attention.
Ground hooks were everywhere. In fact, the entire test stand was
fenced with multiple redundant safety interlocks, tag-outs, etc. So,
I know what NOT to do.

What I don't know, and am trying to learn, is how to build up a like
super-safe HV experimenting environment. I hafta believe I can do
better than the simple ground wire circuits in my home. I know damn
well that govt lab test stand wasn't grounded thru the ground plug in
a 110V wall socket!

I've noticed some replies mention bleeder circuits, which is good to
know, but I'm looking for a circuit and grounding specifics that will
provide an instant safe grounding system for any sized cap or whatever
I may encounter hacking around with benchtop marx gens, tesla coils,
flyback gens, etc. I find all kindsa webpages on HV projects like
jacobs ladder, tesla coils, etc, but none of them mention much about
safety grounding systems, like it's some sorta inate knowledge
everyone is born with. I don't think so!

start with circuit thory,
Ohm's law, and Kirchoff's circuit laws.

An earth terminal is not a magic totem that can protect you from danger,
once you understand those you'll understand why, you'll also
understand why you don't need an elaborate earth connection.

--
ââ 100% natural

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---

notbob · Apr 28, 2012

On 2012-04-28, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

An earth terminal is not a magic totem that can protect you from danger,
once you understand those you'll understand why, you'll also
understand why you don't need an elaborate earth connection.

Yeah, those whacky scientists building marx generators for that linear
accelerator didn't really need elaborate grounding. Jes plug that
600KV ground hook into the GFCI outlet next to the Mr Coffee.

Sorry, but momma notbob never raised such a foolish child.

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!
"Avenge me!" --Bill Burr

John Fields · Apr 28, 2012

On 28 Apr 2012 22:13:34 GMT, notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote:

On 2012-04-28, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

An earth terminal is not a magic totem that can protect you from danger,
once you understand those you'll understand why, you'll also
understand why you don't need an elaborate earth connection.

Yeah, those whacky scientists building marx generators for that linear
accelerator didn't really need elaborate grounding. Jes plug that
600KV ground hook into the GFCI outlet next to the Mr Coffee.

Sorry, but momma notbob never raised such a foolish child.

---
Perhaps, but it seems she raised at least one who asks for help and
then denigrates the helper, when help is offered, in order to incur no
debt.

--
JF

Jim Thompson · Apr 29, 2012

On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 17:53:31 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On 28 Apr 2012 22:13:34 GMT, notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote:

On 2012-04-28, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

An earth terminal is not a magic totem that can protect you from danger,
once you understand those you'll understand why, you'll also
understand why you don't need an elaborate earth connection.

Yeah, those whacky scientists building marx generators for that linear
accelerator didn't really need elaborate grounding. Jes plug that
600KV ground hook into the GFCI outlet next to the Mr Coffee.

Sorry, but momma notbob never raised such a foolish child.

---
Perhaps, but it seems she raised at least one who asks for help and
then denigrates the helper, when help is offered, in order to incur no
debt.

notbob · Apr 29, 2012

On 2012-04-28, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

then denigrates the helper, when help is offered, in order to incur no
debt.

I'm denigrating no one, any more than anyone is actually denigrating
me ...which I thank this group for.

Hey, I admit I know waaaay too much, yet way too little, to be as safe
as I'd like to be. So I'm asking for info. So far, I've gotten ppl
advising me to learn what I already know. Yet the info on what a
ground rod is for, how it may/may-not help me, HV dissipation
specifics, circuits, etc, is pretty much non-forthcoming. If you want
to argue my skill level, I have no argument. But, if you are not
gonna help me learn what I would like to know about HV, as opposed to
what you think I should know, please annoy/attack someone else.

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!
"Avenge me!" --Bill Burr

Jasen Betts · Apr 29, 2012

On 2012-04-29, notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote:

On 2012-04-28, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

then denigrates the helper, when help is offered, in order to incur no
debt.

I'm denigrating no one, any more than anyone is actually denigrating
me ...which I thank this group for.

Hey, I admit I know waaaay too much, yet way too little, to be as safe
as I'd like to be. So I'm asking for info. So far, I've gotten ppl
advising me to learn what I already know.

you appeared to be demonstrating ignorance of basic circuit theory.

ground rod is for, how it may/may-not help me, HV dissipation
specifics, circuits, etc, is pretty much non-forthcoming.

sci.electronics is mostly about low-ish voltages,

You may find what you seek at http://4hv.org/ .
There was a high voltage forum mentioned here a few months back that
may have been it.

--
ââ 100% natural

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---

John Fields · Apr 29, 2012

On 29 Apr 2012 01:09:39 GMT, notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote:

On 2012-04-28, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

then denigrates the helper, when help is offered, in order to incur no
debt.

I'm denigrating no one, any more than anyone is actually denigrating
me ...which I thank this group for.

Hey, I admit I know waaaay too much, yet way too little, to be as safe
as I'd like to be. So I'm asking for info. So far, I've gotten ppl
advising me to learn what I already know. Yet the info on what a
ground rod is for, how it may/may-not help me, HV dissipation
specifics, circuits, etc, is pretty much non-forthcoming. If you want
to argue my skill level, I have no argument. But, if you are not
gonna help me learn what I would like to know about HV, as opposed to
what you think I should know, please annoy/attack someone else.

nb

---
From what's already been posted, and from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)

you should be aware that no ground rod or connection to earth ground
is necessary for discharging capacitors, so what is it
- specifically - that you'd like to know about HV?

--
JF

notbob · Apr 29, 2012

On 2012-04-29, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

you appeared to be demonstrating ignorance of basic circuit theory.

heh heh... I demonstrate an ignorance of a lotta things in my old age.
I occasionally drool, too.

(say the last 2 words fast, over and
over ....hey, I think I invented a tongue-twister!)

sci.electronics is mostly about low-ish voltages,

Yes, as "...tronics" vs "...cal" would indicate. OTOH, you can't have
'tronics' w/o the 'cal'. (please, don't go there)

You may find what you seek at http://4hv.org/ .
There was a high voltage forum mentioned here a few months back that
may have been it.

Thank you for the link.

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!
"Avenge me!" --Bill Burr

notbob · Apr 29, 2012

On 2012-04-29, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

- specifically - that you'd like to know about HV?

OK....

If you had a 60KV cap and wanted to make sure it wasn't charged, by
using a ground hook, what would that ground hook be hooked to?

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!
"Avenge me!" --Bill Burr

John Fields · Apr 29, 2012

On 29 Apr 2012 12:23:40 GMT, notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote:

On 2012-04-29, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

- specifically - that you'd like to know about HV?

OK....

If you had a 60KV cap and wanted to make sure it wasn't charged, by
using a ground hook, what would that ground hook be hooked to?

nb

---
http://www.pppl.gov/eshis/ESHD_MANUAL/safety/es15.0.pdf

--
JF

Safe ground hookup

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