Russian hypersonic missile scientists arrested for high treason...

[Fred Bloggs]

Three Russian academics who have worked on hypersonic missile technology face \"very serious accusations\", the Kremlin said on Wednesday, in a treason investigation that has spread alarm through Russia\'s scientific community.

Can we say scapegoats?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-three-scientists-face-very-serious-accusations-treason-case-2023-05-17/

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-05-17 23:21, Fred Bloggs wrote:

Three Russian academics who have worked on hypersonic missile technology face \"very serious accusations\", the Kremlin said on Wednesday, in a treason investigation that has spread alarm through Russia\'s scientific community.

Can we say scapegoats?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-three-scientists-face-very-serious-accusations-treason-case-2023-05-17/

Have you read it?

They are not accused of designing misiles that don\'t work, but of
revealing technical details of the misiles.


«Notices of academic conferences stretching back over many years show
the arrested scientists were frequent participants.

In 2012, Maslov and Shiplyuk presented the results of an experiment on
hypersonic missile design at a seminar in Tours, France. In 2016, all
three were among the authors of a book chapter entitled \"Hypersonic
Short-Duration Facilities for Aerodynamic Research at ITAM, Russia\".

The open letter from their colleagues at ITAM - the Khristianovich
Institute of Theoretical and Applied Mechanics in Novosibirsk - said the
materials the scientists had presented in international forums had been
checked repeatedly to ensure they did not include restricted information.

The cases showed that \"any article or report can lead to accusations of
high treason\", the open letter said.

\"In this situation, we are not only afraid for the fate of our
colleagues. We just do not understand how to continue to do our job.\"»


--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 17 May 2023 14:21:03 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

Three Russian academics who have worked on hypersonic missile technology face \"very serious accusations\", the Kremlin said on Wednesday, in a treason investigation
Can we say scapegoats?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-three-scientists-face-very-serious-accusations-treason-case-2023-05-17/

Interesting that Putin would arrest him, instead of quietly applying
poison, or throwing him out of a window.

that has spread alarm through Russia\'s scientific community.

I think the KGB vets and oligarchs actually want a poor, ignorant,
fiercely loyal Russian-speaking population. They will eliminate the
trouble-makers various ways.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 4:44:39 AM UTC-7, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-05-17 23:21, Fred Bloggs wrote:
Three Russian academics who have worked on hypersonic missile technology face \"very serious accusations\", the Kremlin said on Wednesday, in a treason investigation that has spread alarm through Russia\'s scientific community.

Can we say scapegoats?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-three-scientists-face-very-serious-accusations-treason-case-2023-05-17/
Have you read it?

They are not accused of designing misiles that don\'t work, but of
revealing technical details of the misiles.

If the missiles works, they would have been heroes for spreading the threads of such weapons.

BTW, patriots are effective when the missiles are coming directly to them. Not sure it they are hitting something else.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 11:58:52 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 17 May 2023 14:21:03 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

Three Russian academics who have worked on hypersonic missile technology face \"very serious accusations\", the Kremlin said on Wednesday, in a treason investigation

Can we say scapegoats?

Probably not. It\'s more likely that the security services are being unusually stupid, even for spooks.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-three-scientists-face-very-serious-accusations-treason-case-2023-05-17/

Interesting that Putin would arrest them, instead of quietly applying poison, or throwing them out of a window.

that has spread alarm through Russia\'s scientific community.

The scientific community are suppose to publish enough of their work to make the weapons look credible, without publishing enough to make them easy to copy.
It\'s a delicate balance, and the spooks have clearly changed their minds since they vetted the original publications.

> I think the KGB vets and oligarchs actually want a poor, ignorant, fiercely loyal Russian-speaking population.

This isn\'t about the general population, but rather the technologists that develop their weapons. They may want them to be loyal, but ignorant doesn\'t get you battle-winning weapons, and neither does keeping them poor.

> They will eliminate the trouble-makers various ways.

These weren\'t trouble-makers. The spooks that arrested them were, but stupid spooks - like Joseph Raymond McCarthy (not that he was a spook but rather a spook wanna-be) don\'t see themselves as making trouble.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 7:44:39 AM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-05-17 23:21, Fred Bloggs wrote:
Three Russian academics who have worked on hypersonic missile technology face \"very serious accusations\", the Kremlin said on Wednesday, in a treason investigation that has spread alarm through Russia\'s scientific community.

Can we say scapegoats?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-three-scientists-face-very-serious-accusations-treason-case-2023-05-17/
Have you read it?

They are not accused of designing misiles that don\'t work, but of
revealing technical details of the misiles.

I read they were all materials engineers, not missile designers. And the publications in question go back a decade. If it was materials, the Russians probably just stole materials work on the J-135 engine candidates, at least one of which pioneered the use of single crystal super alloys to conduct heat through the piece parts without anything coming close to deforming or changing state or degraded life. And that slightly pre-dates Russia\'s hypersonic materials \"innovation.\"

«Notices of academic conferences stretching back over many years show
the arrested scientists were frequent participants.

In 2012, Maslov and Shiplyuk presented the results of an experiment on
hypersonic missile design at a seminar in Tours, France. In 2016, all
three were among the authors of a book chapter entitled \"Hypersonic
Short-Duration Facilities for Aerodynamic Research at ITAM, Russia\".

The open letter from their colleagues at ITAM - the Khristianovich
Institute of Theoretical and Applied Mechanics in Novosibirsk - said the
materials the scientists had presented in international forums had been
checked repeatedly to ensure they did not include restricted information.

The cases showed that \"any article or report can lead to accusations of
high treason\", the open letter said.

\"In this situation, we are not only afraid for the fate of our
colleagues. We just do not understand how to continue to do our job.\"»


--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 9:58:52 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 17 May 2023 14:21:03 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

Three Russian academics who have worked on hypersonic missile technology face \"very serious accusations\", the Kremlin said on Wednesday, in a treason investigation
Can we say scapegoats?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-three-scientists-face-very-serious-accusations-treason-case-2023-05-17/
Interesting that Putin would arrest him, instead of quietly applying
poison, or throwing him out of a window.
that has spread alarm through Russia\'s scientific community.

I think the KGB vets and oligarchs actually want a poor, ignorant,
fiercely loyal Russian-speaking population. They will eliminate the
trouble-makers various ways.

They\'re not so out of touch as to expect loyalty from the Russian population. People acting like they\'re loyal will have to do because that\'s as much as they\'ll get.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 10:55:11 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 4:44:39 AM UTC-7, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-05-17 23:21, Fred Bloggs wrote:
Three Russian academics who have worked on hypersonic missile technology face \"very serious accusations\", the Kremlin said on Wednesday, in a treason investigation that has spread alarm through Russia\'s scientific community.

Can we say scapegoats?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-three-scientists-face-very-serious-accusations-treason-case-2023-05-17/
Have you read it?

They are not accused of designing misiles that don\'t work, but of
revealing technical details of the misiles.
If the missiles works, they would have been heroes for spreading the threads of such weapons.

BTW, patriots are effective when the missiles are coming directly to them.. Not sure it they are hitting something else.

The PAC system has been through such a dizzying array of upgrades and versions, you really can\'t say \"the\" patriot. My guess is the U.S. has given them older versions. And those missile are expensive, some sources say the PAC-3 is $4M per copy. And since they\'re free, my other guess is the Ukrainians are firing a whole canister of four missiles in sequence at a single target. The hypersonic doesn\'t give them enough time to do otherwise. The first shot is the last shot.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-05-18 15:56, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 17 May 2023 14:21:03 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

Three Russian academics who have worked on hypersonic missile technology face \"very serious accusations\", the Kremlin said on Wednesday, in a treason investigation
Can we say scapegoats?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-three-scientists-face-very-serious-accusations-treason-case-2023-05-17/

Interesting that Putin would arrest him, instead of quietly applying
poison, or throwing him out of a window.

Not really. They have a \"credible\" accusation of treason, so they want
to make a public example. Quiet elimination is used when a public show
may not be useful to propaganda, or it may even fail to destroy the target.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 19 May 2023 12:54:40 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-05-18 15:56, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 17 May 2023 14:21:03 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

Three Russian academics who have worked on hypersonic missile technology face \"very serious accusations\", the Kremlin said on Wednesday, in a treason investigation
Can we say scapegoats?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-three-scientists-face-very-serious-accusations-treason-case-2023-05-17/

Interesting that Putin would arrest him, instead of quietly applying
poison, or throwing him out of a window.

Not really. They have a \"credible\" accusation of treason, so they want
to make a public example. Quiet elimination is used when a public show
may not be useful to propaganda, or it may even fail to destroy the target.

Falling out of a window would be pretty public.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 6:27:26 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 19 May 2023 12:54:40 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-05-18 15:56, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 17 May 2023 14:21:03 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

Three Russian academics who have worked on hypersonic missile technology face \"very serious accusations\", the Kremlin said on Wednesday, in a treason investigation
Can we say scapegoats?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-three-scientists-face-very-serious-accusations-treason-case-2023-05-17/

Interesting that Putin would arrest him, instead of quietly applying
poison, or throwing him out of a window.

Not really. They have a \"credible\" accusation of treason, so they want
to make a public example. Quiet elimination is used when a public show
may not be useful to propaganda, or it may even fail to destroy the target.
Falling out of a window would be pretty public.

Window treatment is for crime against the boss, not necessary the state. Treason is clearly crime against the state.