Running an European built 3 phase machine in Australia

Is it okay to run an European build food processing machine which use three
phase motors (1kW and 2kW) in Australia? Appearently Europe has 380v on
their 3 phase power line.

 

[KLR]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 02:08:39 +1000, <Wenpgro Souwgrou> wrote:

Is it okay to run an European build food processing machine which use three
phase motors (1kW and 2kW) in Australia? Appearently Europe has 380v on
their 3 phase power line.

Europe is 50 HZ as far as I know - so that is one major issue you dont

have to worry about - however I would have to suggest that you
seriously look at reducing the mains voltage to 380v to suit the
machine. If the mains voltage at the premises is a bit low then you
should be fine, If its high - you risk excessive heating of the
motors which in the long term wont do them much good, and cost extra
electricity as well. I have seen damage occur long term to 220v
appliances that are run on aus. 240 and would advise strongly that you
drop it.

Take a look at the manufacturers specification plate on the machine or
the motors - if they say 380/415 v - then it should be OK.

Also with some motors there may be many wires emerge to the junction
box - and instructions with the motor saying which wires to connect to
for diferent voltages.

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 02:08:39 +1000, <Wenpgro Souwgrou> wrote:

|Is it okay to run an European build food processing machine which use three
|phase motors (1kW and 2kW) in Australia? Appearently Europe has 380v on
|their 3 phase power line.
|

Australia uses a nominal 240V ac (nom) phase to neutral system.
Therefore makes our 3 phase supply 240 x sqrt3 = 415V (nom) phase to
phase.

For UK/Europe they use 220V ac (nom) phase to neutral. Therefore makes
their 3 phase 220 x sqrt3 = 381 V (nom) phase to phase .

I certainly wouldn't be running equipment rated for UK/Europe 3 phase
on Australian 3 phase supply without a suitably rated 3 phase
step-down transformer.

 

[Phil Allison]

<Wenpgro Souwgrou>

Is it okay to run an European build food processing machine which use
three
phase motors (1kW and 2kW) in Australia? Appearently Europe has 380v on
their 3 phase power line.

** You do realise, of course, that being from the northern hemisphere the
machine will naturally run in the opposite direction.




............ Phil

 

[Rheilly Phoull]

"Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:2jqgf3F142uooU1@uni-berlin.de...

Wenpgro Souwgrou

Is it okay to run an European build food processing machine which use
three
phase motors (1kW and 2kW) in Australia? Appearently Europe has 380v on
their 3 phase power line.




** You do realise, of course, that being from the northern hemisphere
the
machine will naturally run in the opposite direction.




........... Phil


I guess we should add RTFNP to the list ??

--
Regards ........... Rheilly Phoull

 

[Bernard Morey]

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:dj7fd0lms8bctl8co0evbp6ufsshvi7rnr@4ax.com...

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 02:08:39 +1000, <Wenpgro Souwgrou> wrote:

|Is it okay to run an European build food processing machine which use
three
|phase motors (1kW and 2kW) in Australia? Appearently Europe has 380v on
|their 3 phase power line.
|

Australia uses a nominal 240V ac (nom) phase to neutral system.
Therefore makes our 3 phase supply 240 x sqrt3 = 415V (nom) phase to
phase.

For UK/Europe they use 220V ac (nom) phase to neutral. Therefore makes
their 3 phase 220 x sqrt3 = 381 V (nom) phase to phase .

I certainly wouldn't be running equipment rated for UK/Europe 3 phase
on Australian 3 phase supply without a suitably rated 3 phase
step-down transformer.

Would a re-wind shop be able to rewind them for Australia? Might be cheaper
than a transformer.

I had a dishwasher motor rewound for about 15% less than the cost of a new
replacement, and a better quality job (the Dishlex OEM motor was was crap,
according to the rewinder).

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:19:49 +1000, "Bernard Morey"
<bernardmorey@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

|"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
|news:dj7fd0lms8bctl8co0evbp6ufsshvi7rnr@4ax.com...
|> On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 02:08:39 +1000, <Wenpgro Souwgrou> wrote:
|>
|> |Is it okay to run an European build food processing machine which use
|three
|> |phase motors (1kW and 2kW) in Australia? Appearently Europe has 380v on
|> |their 3 phase power line.
|> |
|>
|> Australia uses a nominal 240V ac (nom) phase to neutral system.
|> Therefore makes our 3 phase supply 240 x sqrt3 = 415V (nom) phase to
|> phase.
|>
|> For UK/Europe they use 220V ac (nom) phase to neutral. Therefore makes
|> their 3 phase 220 x sqrt3 = 381 V (nom) phase to phase .
|>
|> I certainly wouldn't be running equipment rated for UK/Europe 3 phase
|> on Australian 3 phase supply without a suitably rated 3 phase
|> step-down transformer.
|
|Would a re-wind shop be able to rewind them for Australia? Might be cheaper
|than a transformer.
|
|I had a dishwasher motor rewound for about 15% less than the cost of a new
|replacement, and a better quality job (the Dishlex OEM motor was was crap,
|according to the rewinder).
|
|

I agree where only one motor is concerned. The OP did say "motors" of
1kW and 2kW so it looks like he needs at least 2 motors re-wound.
Unfortunately, small 3 ph txfmrs are not too readily available as far
as I know. Perhaps the OP can check with a txfmr manf such as
http://www.ironcore.com.au/Default.htm

 

[James]

<Wenpgro Souwgrou> wrote in message news:<40d7080a$0$25462$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...

Is it okay to run an European build food processing machine which use three
phase motors (1kW and 2kW) in Australia? Appearently Europe has 380v on
their 3 phase power line.

Probably best to check what your supply voltage is and what the name
plate on the machine says. Nominal 3 phase supply in Australia is 415
volts. The nominal output from the distribution transformers is 433
volts - this is towards the upper end of the tolerence in voltage to
ensure that after voltage drop you still get adequate voltage. If the
transformer supplying your place is not heavily loaded you will be
getting close to 433 volts which 380 volt motors might not like.
Motors dont really like voltages too much higher than their rating or
they may start to saturate and get hot which will at the very least
lead to a reduced life time. I have often seen voltages above 440
volts and 380 volt equipment would not like this at all so you should
check what you actually get.

What I would look at if it were my equipment is using three 240:18
volt transformers connected as a 3 phase auto transformer to step the
voltage down. Since the motors are fairly small this shouldn't cost
too much. If you do not have a neutral present you may need to use
415:18 volt transformers instead. Quite important here to to get
everything connected properly or you will get some strange voltages.

Good idea also to make sure you have good protection on the motors so
if something does go wrong they will shut down before anyone is hurt
or they do any real damage.

One more little thing - dont assume anything about wire colours with
imported equipment, I have seen green wires used as actives more than
once before.

goodluck
James

 

[Yobbeaux]

hmmmm

this would be a good use of that 3 phase 16 amp autotransformer I have
sitting in the shed doing nothing

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:dj7fd0lms8bctl8co0evbp6ufsshvi7rnr@4ax.com...

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 02:08:39 +1000, <Wenpgro Souwgrou> wrote:

|Is it okay to run an European build food processing machine which use
three
|phase motors (1kW and 2kW) in Australia? Appearently Europe has 380v on
|their 3 phase power line.
|

Australia uses a nominal 240V ac (nom) phase to neutral system.
Therefore makes our 3 phase supply 240 x sqrt3 = 415V (nom) phase to
phase.

For UK/Europe they use 220V ac (nom) phase to neutral. Therefore makes
their 3 phase 220 x sqrt3 = 381 V (nom) phase to phase .

I certainly wouldn't be running equipment rated for UK/Europe 3 phase
on Australian 3 phase supply without a suitably rated 3 phase
step-down transformer.

Hmmmm

This would be a good use of that 3 phase 16 amp autotransformer I have
sitting in the shed doing nothing

250kgs, open - no cabinet, hand operated - would fit in less space than a
small twin tub washing machine

I have been ussing it for 3 phase current injection testing of electronic
overloads

http://www.elect-spec.com/variac_4.htm $US1600 for the 15A model +
shipping on 150kg

or pick one up locally

cheers
johnno

 

[Alan W]

"Yobbeaux" <snotball@some.net.online> wrote:

hmmmm

this would be a good use of that 3 phase 16 amp autotransformer I have
sitting in the shed doing nothing

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:dj7fd0lms8bctl8co0evbp6ufsshvi7rnr@4ax.com...
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 02:08:39 +1000, <Wenpgro Souwgrou> wrote:

|Is it okay to run an European build food processing machine which use
three
|phase motors (1kW and 2kW) in Australia? Appearently Europe has 380v
on
|their 3 phase power line.
|

Australia uses a nominal 240V ac (nom) phase to neutral system.
Therefore makes our 3 phase supply 240 x sqrt3 = 415V (nom) phase to
phase.

For UK/Europe they use 220V ac (nom) phase to neutral. Therefore makes
their 3 phase 220 x sqrt3 = 381 V (nom) phase to phase .

I certainly wouldn't be running equipment rated for UK/Europe 3 phase
on Australian 3 phase supply without a suitably rated 3 phase
step-down transformer.


Hmmmm

This would be a good use of that 3 phase 16 amp autotransformer I have
sitting in the shed doing nothing

250kgs, open - no cabinet, hand operated - would fit in less space than
a
small twin tub washing machine

I have been ussing it for 3 phase current injection testing of electronic
overloads

http://www.elect-spec.com/variac_4.htm $US1600 for the 15A model +
shipping on 150kg

or pick one up locally

cheers
johnno


As per previous post there is NO problem with running 380V 3 phase motors

in Australia. The Australian supply is identical to the UK system and these
motors are used extensively in the UK, some are even plated 380/415V.

The only consideration would be the winding insulation and a slight rise
in the line current for the same rated wattage and if these were significant
then these motors should not be on the market, any market, European or otherwise.

Regards,

Alan.

 

[Joe in Bendigo]

Mainland Europe was 220V AC 30 years ago - my relatives tell me it's 230 or
240V now.... so the issue is possibly more to do with the age opf the
equipment - all my brother's old 3-phase workshiop equipment from 40 years
ago is still running.... and it all says 380V - some of his more modern gear
says 415V... go figure
Joe

"Alan W" <awills@iiinet.net> wrote in message
news:40f18702$1_2@207.243.121.44...

"Yobbeaux" <snotball@some.net.online> wrote:
hmmmm

this would be a good use of that 3 phase 16 amp autotransformer I have
sitting in the shed doing nothing

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:dj7fd0lms8bctl8co0evbp6ufsshvi7rnr@4ax.com...
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 02:08:39 +1000, <Wenpgro Souwgrou> wrote:

|Is it okay to run an European build food processing machine which use
three
|phase motors (1kW and 2kW) in Australia? Appearently Europe has 380v
on
|their 3 phase power line.
|

Australia uses a nominal 240V ac (nom) phase to neutral system.
Therefore makes our 3 phase supply 240 x sqrt3 = 415V (nom) phase to
phase.

For UK/Europe they use 220V ac (nom) phase to neutral. Therefore makes
their 3 phase 220 x sqrt3 = 381 V (nom) phase to phase .

I certainly wouldn't be running equipment rated for UK/Europe 3 phase
on Australian 3 phase supply without a suitably rated 3 phase
step-down transformer.


Hmmmm

This would be a good use of that 3 phase 16 amp autotransformer I have
sitting in the shed doing nothing

250kgs, open - no cabinet, hand operated - would fit in less space than
a
small twin tub washing machine

I have been ussing it for 3 phase current injection testing of electronic
overloads

http://www.elect-spec.com/variac_4.htm $US1600 for the 15A model +
shipping on 150kg

or pick one up locally

cheers
johnno


As per previous post there is NO problem with running 380V 3 phase motors
in Australia. The Australian supply is identical to the UK system and
these
motors are used extensively in the UK, some are even plated 380/415V.

The only consideration would be the winding insulation and a slight rise
in the line current for the same rated wattage and if these were
significant
then these motors should not be on the market, any market, European or
otherwise.

Regards,

Alan.

 

[Patrick Dunford]

In article <40f08ec8$0$1286$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
snotball@some.net.online says...

hmmmm

this would be a good use of that 3 phase 16 amp autotransformer I have
sitting in the shed doing nothing

No it wouldn't, the use of autotransformers is proscribed for use as
stepdown transformers.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Patrick Dunford"
Yobbeaux

hmmmm

this would be a good use of that 3 phase 16 amp autotransformer I have
sitting in the shed doing nothing

No it wouldn't, the use of autotransformers is proscribed for use as
stepdown transformers.

** Firstly - kindly do not remove a poster's name when you reply.

Secondly - auto-transformers are not proscribed except as a source of a
low voltage AC or DC supply where there is risk of human contact with the
output.




............ Phil