RTL for Z8000 series CPU?

A

ajcrm125

Guest
Hey guys, does anyone know where I can get VHDL/Verilog source for the
Z8001/Z8002 processor?
Thanks for any info!

-Adam
ajcrm125@gmail.com
 
"ajcrm125" <ajcrm125@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1135279466.216912.316820@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Hey guys, does anyone know where I can get VHDL/Verilog source for the
Z8001/Z8002 processor?
Thanks for any info!

-Adam
ajcrm125@gmail.com

yes, sure!
Click to expand...
www.zilog.com

I think some other entities have it also but not available.
the Z8 project at opencores is dead and unuseable, and there is little hope
that free z8000 core would exist

Antti
 
On 2005-12-23, Antti Lukats <antti@openchip.org> wrote:

Hey guys, does anyone know where I can get VHDL/Verilog source for the
Z8001/Z8002 processor?

yes, sure!
www.zilog.com
Click to expand...
So you're stating that Zilog has VHDL/Verilog for the Z8000
processor and it's available to the public?

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! All of life is a blur
at of Republicans and meat!
visi.com
 
"Grant Edwards" <grante@visi.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:11qo23re0afujbc@corp.supernews.com...
On 2005-12-23, Antti Lukats <antti@openchip.org> wrote:

Hey guys, does anyone know where I can get VHDL/Verilog source for the
Z8001/Z8002 processor?

yes, sure!
www.zilog.com

So you're stating that Zilog has VHDL/Verilog for the Z8000
processor and it's available to the public?

I suppose, if you buy 51% of Zilog stock then its public for you :)
Click to expand...

I stated where to get - not the amount of $$$ that is needed.

Antti
 
Hey guys, does anyone know where I can get VHDL/Verilog source for the
Z8001/Z8002 processor?

yes, sure!
www.zilog.com

So you're stating that Zilog has VHDL/Verilog for the Z8000
processor and it's available to the public?

I suppose, if you buy 51% of Zilog stock then its public for you :)

I stated where to get - not the amount of $$$ that is needed.

Antti
Click to expand...
The Z8000 was designed before Verilog existed. I doubt that they
still even have the schematics. The Z8002 is available in Verilog
from www.systemyde.com , but it's not free. (But it's significantly
cheaper than buying half of Zilog.)

Monte
 
The Z8000 was designed at the transistor level by Shima, who also had
designed the 4004, 8008, 8080, and Z80. No logic diagram existed when I
got involved in the transfer to second-source AMD.
Those were the days..(1979/80). Hi, Monte!
Peter Alfke
 
"Peter Alfke" <alfke@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1135359654.384929.210170@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The Z8000 was designed at the transistor level by Shima, who also had
designed the 4004, 8008, 8080, and Z80. No logic diagram existed when I
got involved in the transfer to second-source AMD.
Those were the days..(1979/80). Hi, Monte!
Peter Alfke
Click to expand...
Hello Peter, long time no see!

Yes, Shima's schematics were a nightmare to try to understand,
given that he only drew transistors, and there were only signal
names for signals that left a sheet. But if you laid the schematic
sheets out so that the signals matched up, you had a complete
floorplan of the device. And the transistors on the sheets were
good guides for the layout designers when they were doing
the layout, because the "density" of schematic transistors was
relatively proportional to the layout density. Not like today,
when I can describe a few thousand transistors in a couple of
pages of Verilog code...

I doubt that those schematics survive though, as they predated
the era of document control at Zilog.

Monte
 
Looks like it back to sqaure one then.. doing it myself.
Too bad OpenCores doesn't have one. Maybe when I finish this one I can
submit it and save other poor saps like me the trouble. :-D
-Adam
 
Adam, if I were you, I would contact Zilog. The Z8000 is their design,
they probably have some legal rights (patents must be expired, since
the Z8000 was introduced around 1980, but there may be copyrights etc
that live much longer).
The Z8000 had many fans, especially in the military markets. Maybe
Zilog will help you, in order to help their frustrated Z8000 users.
You never know. They may become your friend, and you definitely do not
want them as your enemy...
Peter Alfke (at Zilog only 1978-1980)
 
How would I be violating anything if I made a Z8000 equivalent design
in Verilog/VHDL? I mean, if they had source for it, and I tweaked it
slightly and called it my own, I can see where that crosses the line.
But reverse engineering a design from its databook and creating a clone
isn't copyright infringement from what I understand.
What do you think?
-Adam
 
In the early 70's there was a company that built an early
microprocessor, and gave it the Data General Nova instruction set
("it's popular, so why burden designers with another architecture?")
Data General sued, I got dragged in as witness, and if I remember
right, DG won.
Too many lawyers, too few good engineers. My opinion. Peter Alfke

Shakespeare wrote in the Second Part of King Henry the Sixth, Act IV
Scene 2:

CADE. 'I thank you, good people- there shall be no money; all shall eat
and drink on my score, and I will apparel them all in one livery, that
they may agree like brothers and worship me their lord.'
DICK. 'The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.'
 
But isn't that how Intel was founded? Didn't they reverse engineer
IBM's 8086 and create their own (or was it the 8080). In fact, IBM was
making x86 equivalent CPUs for a while before they went full force with
PPC. And then there's AMD who's still doing it.. etc..etc.

And also, if that were the case, I would also think that guys who write
software emulators that emulate specific processors would also get
hammered.

I'm only mimiking what's already been done:
http://www.systemyde.com/proc_tab.html
http://smaplab.ri.uah.edu/dmsms/damarlas.pdf
http://csdl2.computer.org/persagen/DLAbsToc.jsp?resourcePath=/dl/proceedings/viuf/&toc=comp/proceedings/viuf/1999/0465/00/0465toc.xml&DOI=10.1109/VIUF.1999.801975
 
Let me clarify:
Intel developed and designed the 4004, then 8008, which evolved into
the 8080. Then there ws the race to 16 bits: Intel 8086, Motorola
68000, and Zilog Z8000.
Intel also made an economy-version of the 8086, called 8088 (8-bit bus
insted of 16-bit), and IBM picked this intel 8088 for their PC. IBM was
not in the commodity microprocessor business in those days, and IBM
never manufactured 8086-like chips.
And then there is the story how Bill Gates sold them an operating
system that he was about to acquire...Facts can be stranger than
fiction.
Peter Alfke
 
Let me clarify:
Intel developed and designed the 4004, then 8008, which evolved into
the 8080. Then there ws the race to 16 bits: Intel 8086, Motorola
68000, and Zilog Z8000.
Intel also made an economy-version of the 8086, called 8088 (8-bit bus
insted of 16-bit), and IBM picked this intel 8088 for their PC. IBM was
not in the commodity microprocessor business in those days, and IBM
never manufactured 8086-like chips.
And then there is the story how Bill Gates sold them an operating
system that he was about to acquire...Facts can be stranger than
fiction.
Peter Alfke
 
On 2005-12-24, ajcrm125 <ajcrm125@gmail.com> wrote:

But isn't that how Intel was founded?
Click to expand...
What?! Are you on crack?

Didn't they reverse engineer IBM's 8086 and create their own
Click to expand...
No. IBM used the Intel 8088 and later the 8086. Both were
100% Intel designs. IBM also evaluated the Motorola 68K
family, but the 8-bit bus version wasn't going to be available
in time.

(or was it the 8080). In fact, IBM was making x86 equivalent
CPUs for a while before they went full force with PPC.
Click to expand...
I don't remember hearing about that. Got any references?

And then there's AMD who's still doing it.. etc..etc.
Click to expand...
Several vendors have made Intel-architecture compatible CPUs.
All were either licensed from Intel or reverse engineered from
Intel processors.

--
Grant Edwards
grante@visi.com
 
http://www.intel.com/museum/online/hist_micro/hof/



"ajcrm125" <ajcrm125@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1135393423.728304.164860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

But isn't that how Intel was founded? Didn't they reverse
engineer IBM's 8086 and create their own (or was it the 8080). In
fact, IBM was making x86 equivalent CPUs for a while before they
went full force with PPC. And then there's AMD who's still doing
it.. etc..etc.

And also, if that were the case, I would also think that guys who
write software emulators that emulate specific processors would
also get hammered.

I'm only mimiking what's already been done:
http://www.systemyde.com/proc_tab.html
http://smaplab.ri.uah.edu/dmsms/damarlas.pdf
http://csdl2.computer.org/persagen/DLAbsToc.jsp?resourcePath=/dl/pr
oceedings/viuf/&toc=comp/proceedings/viuf/1999/0465/00/0465toc.xml&
DOI=10.1109/VIUF.1999.801975
Click to expand...


--
rk, Just an OldEngineer
"The number of people having any connection with the project must be
restricted in an almost vicious manner. Use a small number of good
people." -- Kelly Johnson, as quoted in _Skunk Works_
 
ajcrm125 wrote:
But isn't that how Intel was founded? Didn't they reverse
engineer IBM's 8086 and create their own (or was it the 8080).
In fact, IBM was making x86 equivalent CPUs for a while before
they went full force with PPC. And then there's AMD who's still
doing it.. etc..etc.
Click to expand...
Utter nonsense. Intel developed the 4004, then the 8008, and the
8080 was an outgrowth of that. Intels primary business at the time
was memory, including RAM and ePROMs. Their purpose in developing
uCs was to expand their memory business. The 8086/8 were further
developments of the 8080, and were licensed to AMD.

At that time engineers had a lot more sense than they seem to
today, and wouldn't consider designing in a sole-source part. Thus
the license was a business necessity. The AMD license lasted
through the 286, IIRC, after which AMD designed their own CPUs.

--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/>
 
Grant Edwards wrote:
On 2005-12-24, ajcrm125 <ajcrm125@gmail.com> wrote:

But isn't that how Intel was founded?

What?! Are you on crack?

Didn't they reverse engineer IBM's 8086 and create their own

No. IBM used the Intel 8088 and later the 8086. Both were
100% Intel designs. IBM also evaluated the Motorola 68K
family, but the 8-bit bus version wasn't going to be available
in time.

Someone reversed engineered something back in the day.. I just can't
Click to expand...
remember who. I'll do some digging.

(or was it the 8080). In fact, IBM was making x86 equivalent
CPUs for a while before they went full force with PPC.

I don't remember hearing about that. Got any references?
Yep... me. :) I work for IBM and back when I joined we were making
Click to expand...
486's called "Blue Lightning"

And then there's AMD who's still doing it.. etc..etc.

Several vendors have made Intel-architecture compatible CPUs.
All were either licensed from Intel or reverse engineered from
Intel processors.
Reverese engineered.. there ya go. :)
Click to expand...
 
Interesting reading... this is not the case of reverse engineering I'm
reffering to above, this is just another example:
"While exactly copying a processor's microarchitecture would be
illegal, creating a compatible product through the use of an original
"clean room" design is legally protected. According to Halfhill, Intel
clearly reverse-engineered AMD's products, a tactic AMD and other X86
chip designers have used to quickly catch up to Intel's historical
leadership in the design of new microprocessors."
 
Someone reversed engineered something back in the day.. I just can't
remember who. I'll do some digging.
Ahhh... I think what I remember was the whole Compaq/IBM episode with
Click to expand...
Compaq reverse engineering the IBM BIOS. Although I do remember a TV
show where an engineer was interview and he basically said "We had to
go though every possible opcode and see figure out what it did so we
could create a microprocessor that did the same thing". Man once you
hit 30 your memory just aint what it used to be.....


Anywho.. seing as how I'm using 0% of the originla Z8000
microarchitecture (as non is documented) I should be all set.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top