ROM identification and duplication?

D

DaveC

Guest
40-pin DIP, standard through-hole package from early 90's on printer logic
board. What EEPROMs is it likely to be like?

Numbers on it are strictly printer mfr-specific, no generic numbers that I
can see.

I want to copy it. Seems pretty straightforward. What is the possibility of
success? Any issues I should watch out for?

Thanks,
--
DaveC
me@privacy.net
This is an invalid return address
Please reply in the news group
 
In article <0001HW.BC0FD29D010369A2F0080600@news.individual.net>,
me@privacy.net mentioned...
40-pin DIP, standard through-hole package from early 90's on printer logic
board. What EEPROMs is it likely to be like?

Numbers on it are strictly printer mfr-specific, no generic numbers that I
can see.

I want to copy it. Seems pretty straightforward. What is the possibility of
success? Any issues I should watch out for?
Click to expand...
If it has 40 pins, it might be a procesor with built-in EPROM. Some
of these have copy protection enabled.

Thanks,
Click to expand...
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40-pin DIP, standard through-hole package from early 90's on printer logic
board. What EEPROMs is it likely to be like?

If it has 40 pins, it might be a procesor with built-in EPROM. Some
Click to expand...
If it's from a dot matrix or inkjet printer, then it's almost
certainly a microcontroller (or ASIC). If it's from a laser (and I'm
guessing it is - and he wants to upgrade some lesser printer with more
fonts or PostScript or something), then it's 99% likely to be a x16
mask-ROM. I haven't seen EPROM equivalents for these, though I believe
they *did* exist.

Look at the board to identify power and ground connections. The board
probably also has a 68000-class processor on it, you should be able to
do a simple continuity check to get data and address pins.
 
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 7:39:42 -0800, Lewin A.R.W. Edwards wrote
(in message <608b6569.0312250739.5c8bcde1@posting.google.com>):

If it's from a dot matrix or inkjet printer, then it's almost
certainly a microcontroller (or ASIC). If it's from a laser (and I'm
guessing it is - and he wants to upgrade some lesser printer with more
fonts or PostScript or something),
Click to expand...
It's an Apple LaserWriter 16/600 PS-J. The "J" means it was a custom ROM for
the Japanese market, having Kanji fonts installed. I want to replace this
with the US spec ROM. I have been unable to find the replacement ROM service
part anywhere, so copying is the only solution for me.

(These printers were so bulletproof that it's very hard to find dead donor
printers which I can scavenge a ROM from...)

then it's 99% likely to be a x16 mask-ROM.
Click to expand...
For example...?

I haven't seen EPROM equivalents for these, though I believe they *did*
exist.
Click to expand...

Look at the board to identify power and ground connections.
Click to expand...
OK, I can find power and ground pins easily.

The board probably also has a 68000-class processor on it,
Click to expand...
AMD 29030 (RISC) running at 25 MHz

you should be able to
do a simple continuity check to get data and address pins.
Click to expand...
How to ID data and address pins via continuity? I can remove the ROM (it's
socketed), if that will help identify its pins.

Thanks,
--
DaveC
me@privacy.net
This is an invalid return address
Please reply in the news group
 
Lewin A.R.W. Edwards wrote:

40-pin DIP, standard through-hole package from early 90's on
printer logic board. What EEPROMs is it likely to be like?

If it has 40 pins, it might be a procesor with built-in EPROM.
Some

If it's from a dot matrix or inkjet printer, then it's almost
certainly a microcontroller (or ASIC). If it's from a laser (and I'm
guessing it is - and he wants to upgrade some lesser printer with more
fonts or PostScript or something), then it's 99% likely to be a x16
mask-ROM. I haven't seen EPROM equivalents for these, though I believe
they did exist.

Look at the board to identify power and ground connections. The board
probably also has a 68000-class processor on it, you should be able to
do a simple continuity check to get data and address pins.
Click to expand...
or parallel port with ram like 8155/8156
 
In article <0001HW.BC0FD29D010369A2F0080600@news.individual.net>,
me@privacy.net says...

40-pin DIP, standard through-hole package from early 90's on printer logic
board. What EEPROMs is it likely to be like?
Click to expand...
Are you absolutely sure it's an EPROM or EEPROM? Very few such
that I've seen have a big enough array to warrant a 40-pin package.

Numbers on it are strictly printer mfr-specific, no generic numbers that I
can see.
Click to expand...
Is there a manufacturer's logo on the chip? Even if it's a house-
numbered part, the chip manufacturer will usually (at least) put their
logo on it.

I want to copy it. Seems pretty straightforward. What is the possibility of
success? Any issues I should watch out for?
Click to expand...
If you have a good-quality universal (as in pin-driver type)
reader/programmer, like the Data I/O UniSite or one of the higher-end
units from Logical Devices or Needham's, you stand a fair chance of
ID'ing it without destroying it. I've had to do the same with UV EPROMs
that have nothing but Motorola house numbers on them.

As I said, though: Are you sure it's a memory device, and not some
custom microcontroller?


--
Dr. Anton Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR)
kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t c&o&m
Motorola Radio Programming & Service Available -
http://www.bluefeathertech.com/rf.html
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
 
If you know the year it was made (date code?) then look through ROM
data books of the period (IC Master; beg, or borrow a copy) for
compatible devices. Then try reading it on a universal Eprom
programmer with the guessed sizes. Also find the pinouts and see how
they agree with the circuit you have this part in. It might be a
page-mode Eprom with a16 bit data path, hence the 40 pins...

John :-#)#

On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 9:05:03 -0800, DaveC <me@privacy.net> wrote:

On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 7:39:42 -0800, Lewin A.R.W. Edwards wrote
(in message <608b6569.0312250739.5c8bcde1@posting.google.com>):

If it's from a dot matrix or inkjet printer, then it's almost
certainly a microcontroller (or ASIC). If it's from a laser (and I'm
guessing it is - and he wants to upgrade some lesser printer with more
fonts or PostScript or something),

It's an Apple LaserWriter 16/600 PS-J. The "J" means it was a custom ROM for
the Japanese market, having Kanji fonts installed. I want to replace this
with the US spec ROM. I have been unable to find the replacement ROM service
part anywhere, so copying is the only solution for me.

(These printers were so bulletproof that it's very hard to find dead donor
printers which I can scavenge a ROM from...)

then it's 99% likely to be a x16 mask-ROM.

For example...?

I haven't seen EPROM equivalents for these, though I believe they *did*
exist.

Look at the board to identify power and ground connections.

OK, I can find power and ground pins easily.

The board probably also has a 68000-class processor on it,

AMD 29030 (RISC) running at 25 MHz

you should be able to
do a simple continuity check to get data and address pins.

How to ID data and address pins via continuity? I can remove the ROM (it's
socketed), if that will help identify its pins.

Thanks,
Click to expand...
(Please post followups or tech enquires to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
 
DaveC wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 7:39:42 -0800, Lewin A.R.W. Edwards wrote
(in message <608b6569.0312250739.5c8bcde1@posting.google.com>):

If it's from a dot matrix or inkjet printer, then it's almost
certainly a microcontroller (or ASIC). If it's from a laser (and I'm
guessing it is - and he wants to upgrade some lesser printer with more
fonts or PostScript or something),

It's an Apple LaserWriter 16/600 PS-J. The "J" means it was a custom ROM for
the Japanese market, having Kanji fonts installed. I want to replace this
with the US spec ROM. I have been unable to find the replacement ROM service
part anywhere, so copying is the only solution for me.

(These printers were so bulletproof that it's very hard to find dead donor
printers which I can scavenge a ROM from...)

then it's 99% likely to be a x16 mask-ROM.

For example...?

I haven't seen EPROM equivalents for these, though I believe they *did*
exist.

Look at the board to identify power and ground connections.

OK, I can find power and ground pins easily.

The board probably also has a 68000-class processor on it,

AMD 29030 (RISC) running at 25 MHz

you should be able to
do a simple continuity check to get data and address pins.

How to ID data and address pins via continuity? I can remove the ROM (it's
socketed), if that will help identify its pins.

Thanks,
--
DaveC
Click to expand...
http://fixyourownprinter.com/
--
Merry Christmas!

Take care, and God bless.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 10:40:35 -0800, Michael A. Terrell wrote
(in message <3FEB2F1E.16B58695@earthlink.net>):

http://fixyourownprinter.com/
Click to expand...
Tried. No joy.
--
DaveC
me@privacy.net
This is an invalid return address
Please reply in the news group
 
Are you absolutely sure it's an EPROM or EEPROM? Very few such
that I've seen have a big enough array to warrant a 40-pin package.
Click to expand...
Since he said it's a laser printer, it's pretty definitely a mask-ROM
(especially given that it's socketed). They are common in 40-pin
package if they have x16 data path. VERY commonly found in laser
printers, synthesizers (keyboards), and coin-op arcade video games.

Hitachi and Toshiba were both sources for these parts that I remember,
look at their mask-ROM lineup and you'll probably find standard parts
numbered 23xxxx, replace 3 with 7 and you have a fighting chance of
finding a compatible EPROM. But more likely you'll need to build a
daughterboard with two x8 devices. Not hard to hack up.
 
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

--
Merry Christmas!

Take care, and God bless.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Click to expand...
I wondered what it would say when you got to 0 days!
Hope yours was merry, too!
 
ehsjr@bellatlantic.net wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

--
Merry Christmas!

Take care, and God bless.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

I wondered what it would say when you got to 0 days!
Hope yours was merry, too!
Click to expand...
Yes, it was. I had Christmas dinner with my retired father and his
new wife, and played with her cute dog (a Shitsu). Maggie is a real
trip. She is supposed to be a fancy purebreed, but she loves to dig, and
lay in fresh dirt.

They live next door to me, so they are still close enough so I can
keep an eye on them, and help them when they need it without being in
their way the rest of the time.

Christmas is about family, friends, and remembering the reason for
the holiday rather than lots of expensive gifts and going into debt for
months.
--
Merry Christmas!

Take care, and God bless.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
In article <3FEBB892.5A50645E@bellatlantic.net>,
ehsjr@bellatlantic.net says...
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

--
Merry Christmas!

Take care, and God bless.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

I wondered what it would say when you got to 0 days!
Click to expand...
I figured he'd underflow to T-366 days.

Hope yours was merry, too!
Click to expand...
Indeed!

--
Keith
 
DaveC schrieb:
40-pin DIP, standard through-hole package from early 90's on printer logic
board. What EEPROMs is it likely to be like?
Click to expand...
1Mbit: 27C1024
2Mbit: 27C2048
4Mbit: 27C4096 or 27C4002


Regards,
Dieter
 
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 5:46:58 -0800, Dieter Wiedmann wrote
(in message <3FEC3BD2.A4E40341@t-online.de>):

1Mbit: 27C1024
2Mbit: 27C2048
4Mbit: 27C4096 or 27C4002
Click to expand...
The printer's specs say ROM: 4 MB. Assuming either 8 or 16 bits, this could
be either a 2 Mb or 4 Mb device, no?

I found a 27C4096 device locally:

http://tinyurl.com/3gabo

The description in the PDF file says that it is a one-time-programmable (OTP
EPROM) device. Does this mean that it's not erasable? The catalog photo
clearly shows a UV-erase window on the IC.

Thanks,
--
DaveC
me@privacy.net
This is an invalid return address
Please reply in the news group
 
DaveC schrieb:

http://tinyurl.com/3gabo

The description in the PDF file says that it is a one-time-programmable (OTP
EPROM) device. Does this mean that it's not erasable? The catalog photo
clearly shows a UV-erase window on the IC.
Click to expand...
The description says: refurbished. With an OTP-device this wouldn't make
sense, so it seems to be a windowed case.


Regards,
Dieter

BTW: Brand new 27C4002-100s (windowed) are sold at EUR 12,- here in
Germany.
 
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 9:03:58 -0800, Dieter Wiedmann wrote
(in message <3FEC69FE.37489CFD@t-online.de>):

DaveC schrieb:

http://tinyurl.com/3gabo

The description in the PDF file says that it is a one-time-programmable
(OTP EPROM) device. Does this mean that it's not erasable? The catalog
photo clearly shows a UV-erase window on the IC.

The description says: refurbished. With an OTP-device this wouldn't make
sense, so it seems to be a windowed case.
Click to expand...
Doh!!!

Thanks, Dieter

BTW: Brand new 27C4002-100s (windowed) are sold at EUR 12,- here in
Germany.
Click to expand...
Send me one? :)
--
DaveC
me@privacy.net
This is an invalid return address
Please reply in the news group
 
Dieter Wiedmann <Dieter.Wiedmann@t-online.de> wrote:
The description says: refurbished. With an OTP-device this wouldn't make
sense, so it seems to be a windowed case.
Click to expand...
A bit OT, but can't you erase OTPs with the right high-energy photons,
either X-rays or sufficient heat to get the charges to leak off the
gates? IIRC, the windowed and OTP parts are the same die...

--
William Smith
ComputerSmiths Consulting, Inc. www.compusmiths.com
 
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:40:53 -0500, William P.N. Smith <> wroth:

Dieter Wiedmann <Dieter.Wiedmann@t-online.de> wrote:
The description says: refurbished. With an OTP-device this wouldn't make
sense, so it seems to be a windowed case.

A bit OT, but can't you erase OTPs with the right high-energy photons,
either X-rays or sufficient heat to get the charges to leak off the
gates? IIRC, the windowed and OTP parts are the same die...
Click to expand...
I've erased many OTP devices. I put them close to the electron beam
dump of a 3 MEV linear electron accelerator. The X-rays generated there would
be fatal in just a short time. The facility would cost about 10 megabucks to
duplicate.

Jim
 
James Meyer schrieb:

I've erased many OTP devices. I put them close to the electron beam
dump of a 3 MEV linear electron accelerator. The X-rays generated there would
be fatal in just a short time. The facility would cost about 10 megabucks to
duplicate.
Click to expand...
And afterwards you will nevermore reach a sufficing data storage time.
Done that with a dentists X-ray, first bit faults occured after less
than a year.


Regards,
Dieter
 
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