robbins myers motor wiring

[wentzele]

I have a Robbins Myers motor 1842405031 KLM330b0ll

It is 1/4 hp 110v ac with 3 wires Blue Yellow Red and requires a capacitor
460-525 mfd.

No wiring chart and I can't figure out to hook it up.

Tried Yellow to line
Red to Cap
Blue to other side Cap also connects to neutral

Lots of vibration and spins but gets hot and smoke very soon.

Need help, can't find anything about this motor even at Robbins Myers,
most be a end user part number and they don't give info on thoses.

Thanks in advance for help



-------------------------------------




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[Meat Plow]

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:00:47 +0000, e2w_at_earthlink_dot_net@foo.com
(wentzele)wrote:

I have a Robbins Myers motor 1842405031 KLM330b0ll

It is 1/4 hp 110v ac with 3 wires Blue Yellow Red and requires a capacitor
460-525 mfd.

No wiring chart and I can't figure out to hook it up.

Tried Yellow to line
Red to Cap
Blue to other side Cap also connects to neutral

Lots of vibration and spins but gets hot and smoke very soon.

Need help, can't find anything about this motor even at Robbins Myers,
most be a end user part number and they don't give info on thoses.

Thanks in advance for help

The motor is likely not made by Robins-Myers.

 

[Samuel M. Goldwasser]

e2w_at_earthlink_dot_net@foo.com (wentzele) writes:

I have a Robbins Myers motor 1842405031 KLM330b0ll

It is 1/4 hp 110v ac with 3 wires Blue Yellow Red and requires a capacitor
460-525 mfd.

No wiring chart and I can't figure out to hook it up.

Tried Yellow to line
Red to Cap
Blue to other side Cap also connects to neutral

Lots of vibration and spins but gets hot and smoke very soon.

Need help, can't find anything about this motor even at Robbins Myers,
most be a end user part number and they don't give info on thoses.

First, figure out which of the 3 wires is the centertap. That's Neutral.

Next, given the uF value of the cap, it sounds like a starting cap, NOT
a run cap, so there has to be a centrifugal starting switch. Figure out
which wire goes to the centrifugal switch. The cap goes from Hot to that
wire. The remaining wire is Hot.

--
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Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
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[wentzele]

wentzele had written this in response to
http://www.electrondepot.com/repair/Re-robbins-myers-motor-wiring-25712-.htm
:

Samuel M. Goldwasser wrote:





-------------------------------------

Thanks for the input. This is an open frame type motor, meaning I can look
inside both ends and there isn't a centrifugal switch in there. There is a
thermal overload reset but thats it.

Right now I have the Blue and Red to lines and the Red and Yellow to the
cap.

Appears to run, not extremely smooth. It is a new motor and really looks
well made. I want to use it on a homemade cnc spindle. It is 3750 RPM, I
didn't mention that before not the it matters for the wiring.

Thanks for your help



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[Wild_Bill]

You will need to use an ohm meter to check the windings' resistances, in a
3-wire PSC motor without a wiring diagram.

The readings should look like 2 identical windings in series (such as the
secondary winding on a center-tapped transformer, for example).
0----------------0-----------------0
The readings should be 2 nearly identical resistances from the center tap.
A 4th wire may be present for the case earth ground (usually always green,
or green/yellow).

The PSC motors that I'm familiar with have all used capacitors of very low
values (uF). Some smaller (up to 1/8 HP) PSC motors that I have, use caps
with values ranging from 2uF to 20uF.
The value you stated seems excessively large, and 460-525uF would be a value
I would expect to find as the Start capacitor on a 3/4 to 1 HP split-phase
motor.

Capacitors that have been designed/intended for use as Start caps, should
not be subjected to constant voltage application. A constant voltage will
destroy Start capacitors.
In their intended usage (spilt-phase motors), Start caps are only subjected
to voltage very briefly, until the rotor comes up to speed where the Run
winding is used for powering the motor during operation.

This site has a clear diagram of a PSC motor (about halfway down the page).
http://www.clrwtr.com/Single-Phase-Electric-Motors-Characteristics-Applications.htm

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"wentzele" <e2w_at_earthlink_dot_net@foo.com> wrote in message
news:cd567$4b314f9f$43de0cc0$1222@news.flashnewsgroups.com...

I have a Robbins Myers motor 1842405031 KLM330b0ll

It is 1/4 hp 110v ac with 3 wires Blue Yellow Red and requires a capacitor
460-525 mfd.

No wiring chart and I can't figure out to hook it up.

Tried Yellow to line
Red to Cap
Blue to other side Cap also connects to neutral

Lots of vibration and spins but gets hot and smoke very soon.

Need help, can't find anything about this motor even at Robbins Myers,
most be a end user part number and they don't give info on thoses.

Thanks in advance for help



-------------------------------------





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[Alan Douglas]

Appears to run, not extremely smooth. It is a new motor and really looks
well made. I want to use it on a homemade cnc spindle. It is 3750 RPM, I
didn't mention that before not the it matters for the wiring.

Must be 3450, as 3750 would be above synchronous speed.

"110 Volts" implies a very old motor, which was a bit puzzling.

If there's no centrifugal switch there must have been an external
relay to disconnect the start winding and capacitor.

Find out which is the run winding by measuring resistance and picking
the lower of the two. That one goes across the AC line. The start
winding goes across the line, in series with the capacitor, for a
fraction of a second.

Alan

 

[Meat Plow]

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 01:06:04 +0000, e2w_at_earthlink_dot_net@foo.com
(wentzele)wrote:

wentzele had written this in response to
http://www.electrondepot.com/repair/Re-robbins-myers-motor-wiring-25712-.htm
:

Samuel M. Goldwasser wrote:





-------------------------------------

Thanks for the input. This is an open frame type motor, meaning I can look
inside both ends and there isn't a centrifugal switch in there. There is a
thermal overload reset but thats it.

Right now I have the Blue and Red to lines and the Red and Yellow to the
cap.

Appears to run, not extremely smooth. It is a new motor and really looks
well made. I want to use it on a homemade cnc spindle. It is 3750 RPM, I
didn't mention that before not the it matters for the wiring.

Do you have a way to control the speed of the motor?

 

[Andy]

On Dec 22, 6:06 pm, e2w_at_earthlink_dot_...@foo.com (wentzele) wrote:

wentzele had written this in response tohttp://www.electrondepot.com/repair/Re-robbins-myers-motor-wiring-257...
:

Samuel M. Goldwasser wrote:

-------------------------------------

Thanks for the input. This is an open frame type motor, meaning I can look
inside both ends and there isn't a centrifugal switch in there. There is a
thermal overload reset but thats it.

Right now I have the Blue and Red to lines and the Red and Yellow to the
cap.

Appears to run, not extremely smooth. It is a new motor and really looks
well made. I want to use it on a homemade cnc spindle. It is 3750 RPM, I
didn't mention that before not the it matters for the wiring.

Thanks for your help

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3750 RPM is an unlikely speed if it is an induction motor (which it
probably is). You may want to re-check that. Does the motor have
brushes?

 

[wentzele]

wentzele had written this in response to
http://www.electrondepot.com/repair/Re-robbins-myers-motor-wiring-25731-.htm
:

Wild_Bill wrote:





-------------------------------------


Hey, Thanks for all the great info, its helps greatly.

I may have to put a start relay in if needed. I am an electronic
technician and understand lots of stuff but sometimes these motors
really get confusing since there doesn't appear to be a standard and
also part numbers clearly marked on it and yet with the internet no
documentation to go with it.

I do have to state, yes it is 120v clearly stamp on the plate and RPM 3520
But being an old timer from vacuum tube days I am surprised I did not say
117v ac instead of 110v.

I tried to post pictures of the name plate on the motor but I can't seem
to find a method to do that here. I hope to try a timer relay to open cap
after start or simply pull the wire after it starts. I know, I will be
careful for all those who are about to tell me that is dangerous.

The nameplate also clearly states 450-522mfd 165v ac.

Earl



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[wentzele]

wentzele had written this in response to
http://www.electrondepot.com/repair/Re-robbins-myers-motor-wiring-25731-.htm
:

Wild_Bill wrote:





-------------------------------------

Well, I have it running, now I need to find a starter relay for the cap.

Hooked it up with the yel wire to the cap, this wire came out of a Klixon
temp
reset. The other two winding also go to different terminals on the reset
but then head straight for the windings and come out from the bottom of
the motor.

If I hook one line to the other side of the cap along with the red or blue
line of course the line not connected to the cap goes to nuetral. The
motor starts right away but hums or vibrates and gets warm. I then pull
the yellow line off the cap removing cap from circuit and motor run very
smooth and cool. Switching red and blue line changes motor direction of
course.

So everything is working fine, just need to find an external cap start
relay.

Thanks much guys, I am on my way.

Earl



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[Michael A. Terrell]

wentzele wrote:

wentzele had written this in response to
http://www.electrondepot.com/repair/Re-robbins-myers-motor-wiring-25731-.htm
:

Wild_Bill wrote:

-------------------------------------

Well, I have it running, now I need to find a starter relay for the cap.

Hooked it up with the yel wire to the cap, this wire came out of a Klixon
temp
reset. The other two winding also go to different terminals on the reset
but then head straight for the windings and come out from the bottom of
the motor.

If I hook one line to the other side of the cap along with the red or blue
line of course the line not connected to the cap goes to nuetral. The
motor starts right away but hums or vibrates and gets warm. I then pull
the yellow line off the cap removing cap from circuit and motor run very
smooth and cool. Switching red and blue line changes motor direction of
course.

So everything is working fine, just need to find an external cap start
relay.

Thanks much guys, I am on my way.

Does that 'Klixon' have three terminals? If so, it is a thermal
motor start circuit.


--
Offworld checks no longer accepted!

 

[wentzele]

wentzele had written this in response to
http://www.electrondepot.com/repair/Re-robbins-myers-motor-wiring-25746-.htm
:

Meat Plow wrote:





-------------------------------------


Yes it does but it is a discontinued module and I can't find the data for
it.
I put it back together I think the number on it was DK 12-35

If you have some info on this I sure would like to figure that out.

There is only one wire the comes out of the motor which to a yellow wire
and has T1 label on it. I connected to cap as stated earlier but it does
not disengage the capacitor after the motor starts.



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[Wild_Bill]

Despite the motor being, or appearing to be new, it may be defective, which
can't really be determined in many cases, with just a multimeter.

The P in PSC represents permanent.. meaning the capacitor is permanently in
the circuit, unlike other types of motors. The capacitor in a PSC motor
isn't swiched in, out, or otherwise.

The statement which includes "there doesn't appear to be a standard", is
misplaced, since all PSC motors operate in the same way, and are wired the
same way.
Other types of motors are the same, for each particular type of motor, it's
just a matter of correctly idenifying the correct motor type.
If you can determine that your motor is a PSC motor, then wiring it should
be a fairly simple matter.

You need an ohm meter, as the simplest method to determine which terminals
(or wires) go where internally.
Then you assign your wire colors to the appropriate connections. The only
unexpected results would be that the motor runs in the opposite direction
than desired. PSC motors are easily reversed once the internal connections
are known.
Figure 3 applies to PSC motors
http://www.clrwtr.com/Single-Phase-Electric-Motors-Characteristics-Applications.htm

If the resistance readings for the 2 windings aren't nearly identical, then
the motor isn't likely to be a PSC motor.
If the motor isn't a PSC motor, then it won't be easily reversed, so it
probably won't work for your CNC application anyway.

It may be worthwhile to look for information for other motors that Robbins
Myers uses for their products.
If you find wiring connection diagrams for oher R-M fan/pump/other motors,
one may match your motor.
FWIW, the stated 3520 RPM isn't a common speed, but the value of the
capacitor used with a PSC motor will effect the motor's speed (a certain
amount).

As I was going to mention before, there is a lot of misleading electric
motor info online, mostly created by confused/inexperienced people using
incorrect terms where they don't apply.

http://skycraftsurplus.com/18hpcapacitorstartacmotor.aspx

There is a connecting Wiring Diagram pdf file below the deails/specs.
This motor is a Robbins Myers PSC motor, incorrectly listed by Skycraft as a
capacitor start motor.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"wentzele" <e2w_at_earthlink_dot_net@foo.com> wrote in message
news:df7a6$4b32d462$43de0cc0$23553@news.flashnewsgroups.com...

Hey, Thanks for all the great info, its helps greatly.

I may have to put a start relay in if needed. I am an electronic
technician and understand lots of stuff but sometimes these motors
really get confusing since there doesn't appear to be a standard and
also part numbers clearly marked on it and yet with the internet no
documentation to go with it.

I do have to state, yes it is 120v clearly stamp on the plate and RPM 3520
But being an old timer from vacuum tube days I am surprised I did not say
117v ac instead of 110v.

I tried to post pictures of the name plate on the motor but I can't seem
to find a method to do that here. I hope to try a timer relay to open cap
after start or simply pull the wire after it starts. I know, I will be
careful for all those who are about to tell me that is dangerous.

The nameplate also clearly states 450-522mfd 165v ac.

Earl

 

[wentzele]

wentzele had written this in response to
http://www.electrondepot.com/repair/Re-robbins-myers-motor-wiring-25806-.htm
:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:





-------------------------------------


It does have a klixom KD12-35 and it has 3 terminal on it.

Two terminals connect to wires which head into the coils.

The third is a yellow wire mark T1 with I connect to one side of

the Cap. The other side of cap goes to either red or blue wire depending

on direction of rotation plus to one side of line.

It still does not disengage cap after start but if I remove the yellow
wire from the cap after it starts it runs real smooth.

So either the Klixon is not working or it is not a dual purpose device.
That model is obsolete and not available so I need an alternitive external
relay to control it.

Any ideas?

Thanks


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[Michael A. Terrell]

wentzele wrote:

It does have a klixon KD12-35 and it has 3 terminal on it.

Two terminals connect to wires which head into the coils.

The third is a yellow wire mark T1 with I connect to one side of

the Cap. The other side of cap goes to either red or blue wire depending

on direction of rotation plus to one side of line.

It still does not disengage cap after start but if I remove the yellow
wire from the cap after it starts it runs real smooth.

So either the Klixon is not working or it is not a dual purpose device.
That model is obsolete and not available so I need an alternitive external
relay to control it.

Any ideas?

Contact Sensata who now own the Klixon brand, or find a modern motor.
These three terminal motor starters are a pain in the ass to find. Most
have been obsolete for decades. The alternative is to design an
electronic replacement. The two heavy terminals go to the bi-metalic
switch, the small terminal is the heater. Its resistance is selected to
give the proper start time, with a normal start current. They were used
instead of a mechanically operated speed dependent switch.


Sensata claims to be able to supply almost every version ever built,
so they should be able to give you the specifications.

klixon@sensata.com

http://www.robbinsmyers.com/home Robbin Myers is still in business, but
appears to have abandoned the small motor market.


--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

 

[wentzele]

wentzele had written this in response to
http://www.electrondepot.com/repair/Re-robbins-myers-motor-wiring-25806-.htm
:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:





-------------------------------------

OK, thanks again for the info.

Yes I did go to klixon website and they show a picture of the unit but say
it is obsolete and no data given.

I think I have decided to just build a simple 555 timer and drive a
mechanical or solid state relay. The is the spindle motor for a small home
built CNC machine I am building for my son and it was suppose to be done
by Cristmas so I think I have spent too much time on this starter.

Thanks all for your help, at least I got the motor running and once I
disconnect the cap it really runs very smooth. Will drive the machine very
nicely. The computer will control the start logic, I will set for about
500 msec as a starting point.

Earl


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[Michael A. Terrell]

wentzele wrote:

wentzele had written this in response to
http://www.electrondepot.com/repair/Re-robbins-myers-motor-wiring-25806-.htm
:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

-------------------------------------

OK, thanks again for the info.

Yes I did go to klixon website and they show a picture of the unit but say
it is obsolete and no data given.

I think I have decided to just build a simple 555 timer and drive a
mechanical or solid state relay. The is the spindle motor for a small home
built CNC machine I am building for my son and it was suppose to be done
by Cristmas so I think I have spent too much time on this starter.

Thanks all for your help, at least I got the motor running and once I
disconnect the cap it really runs very smooth. Will drive the machine very
nicely. The computer will control the start logic, I will set for about
500 msec as a starting point.

I find some nice fractional horse split phase motors in large
photocopiers. They can be had for hauling them home and are a wealth of
hardware and interesting parts. No one wants them, and I can keep a lot
of the parts out of the landfill. It doesn't take long to strip one, and
I have about 100 pounds of motors, stainless steel rods, bearings, gears
and chain for mechanical projects. from the last half dozen large
copiers.


--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 04:05:06 +0000, e2w_at_earthlink_dot_net@foo.com
(wentzele) put finger to keyboard and composed:

Yes I did go to klixon website and they show a picture of the unit but say
it is obsolete and no data given.

Try the Wayback Machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.klixon.com

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.